Sexual assualt list posted in boys toilet in Cork school

I think some of the posters thus far need to get a grip.

If this were a 3rd level institution where nobody really has an excuse for not being somewhat mature and aware of the issues then absolutely. Find the instigator(s), name them, expel them.

We're talking about (I guess) a secondary school here. Kids of that age do stupid, immature stuff. It's a tricky time in their lives. For those reasons they need to be cut some slack. Incidents such as this need to be handled with kid gloves.

When I was in secondary school we used to write and talk about all sorts down the back of class. All shyte talk. By the time we went to college we'd grown up.

Ample media coverage of the Belfast case + immature kids of that age + long-standing sexualisation of popular culture + failure of society to adapt sufficiently how we educate and parent. Those to me are the factors at play here and I think the last one is key.

tldr; cut the kids some slack. Parents (especially) and Dept. of Education need to get with the times, for want of a better phrase.

Ronaldinho wrote: »

I think some of the posters thus far need to get a grip.

We're talking about (I guess) a secondary school here. Kids of that age do stupid, immature stuff. It's a tricky time in their lives. For those reasons they need to be cut some slack. Incidents such as this need to be handled with kid gloves.

When I was in secondary school we used to write and talk about all sorts down the back of class. All shyte talk. By the time we went to college we'd grown up.

Did you ever write up a would be rape list for public access ?

A simple Yes or No will suffice.

Ronaldinho wrote: »

Ample media coverage of the Belfast case + immature kids of that age + long-standing sexualisation of popular culture + failure of society to adapt sufficiently how we educate and parent. Those to me are the factors at play here and I think the last one is key.

Yep, it's always someone else's fault.
Kids in secondary school should have already an idea of right and wrong.

eviltwin wrote: »

I think this could be a lot more distressing for the girls than you migh think. I don't think many girls will be upset by not being on a rape list

I'll be honest with you.. I have no idea what teenagers think anymore, I won't pretend that I have because I genuinely don't know..
I'll hazard a guess that the whole thing was a joke by a 'legendary' messer in said school.. That neither any of the boys orrrr the girls for that matter took it to serious, it was probably seen as a popularity contest by both.. Boys: Who's 'legendary' enough to put it on the wall... Girls: Who gets the most ticks... Now it probably upset a lot of girls who weren't on the list, But who knows, who really knows!?
As I said I won't pretend to understand the 'social' WORLD of our average teenager now-a-days...
As long as they come home safe.. That's what I always say..

kylith wrote: »

did I say all men/boys? Or men/boys in general?

Yes, some do, but did I get an answer as to what the girls actually wrote? Not yet. We were told that there was a 'similar' list and that the boys were popular afterward. Did the girls say they wanted to assault these boys? Did they say they were hot? Was it a 'Golly jeepers, I think he's real neat' list?

By someone who admits that they didn't know what a whore was, just that it was a bad word, and applied it to a teacher they didn't like.

No-one is saying that they should. I've already said that if it were one of my family he would be left in no doubt of exactly how unacceptable it was, but that some young men may have used the word 'rape' specifically because it is an emotive word. And unfortunately some older men think that 'I'd rape her' is an acceptable way to say that they find a woman attractive, which may have influenced the boys who instigated this list.

Ugh, and no women make equally crude comments on men they find attractive?! Come off it.

silverharp wrote: »

Im putting my dusty can barely find it teenage hat on but I can assure you boys don't care what adults get up to in their private lives. If some young lads are going off the rails its not this, anymore than video games make kids violent.
My suggestion would be to stop looking for easy scapegoats.

Of course young boys and girls are influenced by the actions of people they idolise. They might not actively care about what they're doing, they might seek that information out but once it's presented to them of course it adds to their understanding of the world.
Want evidence? Luckily for you it's pretty much everywhere.
Human culture itself is a social construct of the mores and values expressed and tolerated by a group of people. Would you deny the existence of culture? People are absolutely influenced by their peers but mostly by the idols of their society.

I'm not saying this will make young boys rapists. It will however leave them feeling that their society tolerates the idea that you can see women as meat, you can describe them as "merry go rounds" you get on and off, that you can have a laugh with your buddies about the vagina of a woman you slept with the night before, and that's all fine. It's your prerogative.

As it happens the most recent overview of the research around the correlation between violent video games and violence in children shows that there is a link. It's shown that children exposed to violent games are more likely to imitate the violence they see but also more likely to express their negative emotions from sadness to general dissatisfaction as aggression than children who have had no exposure to them.

winteremerald wrote: »

Seems girls have access to the Unisex toilet and her mother ?

So are you saying it was girls that did it?
Could be and maybe even a way to get back at other girls ?
Maybe it was, but my point about expulsion would still stand and I would also publicly out them for being vindictive little sh**s.

Candie wrote: »

I doubt the kids involved realized all the connotations of the language used, but the fact that the language was used at all is a concern. The teachers most likely know the kids involved, and it may not be that they're bad kids or that they have bad parents. They're probably just finding their own boundaries, like teenagers do.

More than likely all they need is being told very clearly that it's not funny, the language is more than just a joke, and that even if they didn't mean any of it that it's very intimidating for girls to know they do these kinds of things.

Sometimes boys don't realize how intimidating they are, verbally or physically because they don't see themselves that way and they haven't yet developed the kind of empathy that they'll most likely have a few years down the road. I don't think they should be expelled, I think there should be public apologies and a lot of detention after a short suspension, assuming they're identified.

One question.
How would you like your daughter going to a school with people that included her in what looks like a rape list ?

As a parent there is no way in hell i would want my daughter in the same school as someone who put that list up and that applies if they were female as well as male.

Oh and come to think of it I would not want my lads in the same school either.

There are pranks, jokes, someone writing that someone is a slag, a bollox, etc.
But this is very disconcerting and frankly quite intimidating I think.

Ronaldinho wrote: »

I think some of the posters thus far need to get a grip.

If this were a 3rd level institution where nobody really has an excuse for not being somewhat mature and aware of the issues then absolutely. Find the instigator(s), name them, expel them.

We're talking about (I guess) a secondary school here. Kids of that age do stupid, immature stuff. It's a tricky time in their lives. For those reasons they need to be cut some slack. Incidents such as this need to be handled with kid gloves.

When I was in secondary school we used to write and talk about all sorts down the back of class. All shyte talk. By the time we went to college we'd grown up.

Ample media coverage of the Belfast case + immature kids of that age + long-standing sexualisation of popular culture + failure of society to adapt sufficiently how we educate and parent. Those to me are the factors at play here and I think the last one is key.

tldr; cut the kids some slack. Parents (especially) and Dept. of Education need to get with the times, for want of a better phrase.

Rape lists are not "the times".

Sure it was likely meant as a joke but if you had a daughter in the school would you bet on it? If your name (presuming you were a teenage girl) was on it would you bet on it?

Yeah they are young but are old enough to be taught a line was crossed here. I see no reason to use the kids gloves here. An expulsion won't destroy them for life but sends a message that some things simply will not be tolerated. I was a teenage boy and somehow managed to have enough common sense to realise I shouldn't do anything like that.

Each of the girls on that list has effectively received a rape threat.

Graces7 wrote: »

Old saying, a little crude but true.. "Monkey see, monkey do.." Kids copy ; it is how they learn

Yep, I'm sure kids are thinking.. "I'd really like to put my life on hold for 2 years, be left with massive legal bills with a mob campaigning to end my career".

its a bit of a non story really....just a bunch of young lads doing what lads do, we live in very different times now than when most of us here were going to school.
that's how teenagers are these days..

Ronaldinho wrote: »

Absolutely NOT.

To your second point - I think you need to take a step back. Compare society in 1998 to that of today. Look at how much more liberal attitudes to sex and sexuality have become. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. Compare how much exposure kids of a given age had to sex back then and now, whether it be through media, magazines, music lyrics and videos, TV, movies. My take on it is that the adults are responsible for these changes in society but we (adults) never really properly addressed how we might need to change how we parent and educate.

And it is eve more than my time in secondary school in the 80s.
But we did know right from wrong.
Attacking someone, sexually assaulting someone was deemed wrong.

I have never ever come across something like this.
Yeah there might have been graffiti like Mary C is a slut, or Ellen K like ****ing C***.

But there was never something basically advocating someone to be raped.

And yes there is way more sexualisation of children and the young today, but I don't think there is way more advocacy of sexual assault.
In fact IMHO the opposite would be the case.

Graces7 wrote: »

Or kept under very very strict supervision' but are our teachers up to doing that?

There is no way in hell they should remain in the school.

What message does that send to other students, in particular the ones that were targeted in that list.
Again I ask someone to think of being in the shoes of the ones targeted or at least the parents of the ones targeted and then see what you think.