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The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

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Comments

  • #3902
    Frank Bullitt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,936 ✭✭✭✭Frank Bullitt


    seamus wrote: »
    Because he's an idiot.

    This is the same guy who as a member of a college society started an anonymous email campaign accusing another member of sexual harassment and then got caught out. He offered nothing but pathetic apologies in penance.

    He has for twenty years continually tried to get "into" politics, but been continually rejected and ejected by parties for being too right-wing and untrustworthy - he has a reputation for undermining or attacking party colleagues, and leaking inside information to 3rd parties and the press.

    John McGuirk is a troll and has been a troll his entire adult life. The only thing that makes him remarkable is that he doesn't just confine his trolling to the internet. He scorches the earth around him and then points the finger at everyone else.

    The T4Y campaign has already covered their arse on this. Donors are required to provide a declaration that they are an Irish citizen or Irish resident before they can donate. If someone notifies them that a donation doesn't appear to be from an Irish citizen or resident, they can deal with that. But the declaration itself would be enough to say that they haven't intentionally taken any foreign donations.

    He is a prime source of entertainment for me on a daily basis, although I don't think he would say the same about me and my tweet to him.


  • #3903
    gmisk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,409 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    seamus wrote: »
    Because he's an idiot.

    This is the same guy who as a member of a college society started an anonymous email campaign accusing another member of sexual harassment and then got caught out. He offered nothing but pathetic apologies in penance.

    He has for twenty years continually tried to get "into" politics, but been continually rejected and ejected by parties for being too right-wing and untrustworthy - he has a reputation for undermining or attacking party colleagues, and leaking inside information to 3rd parties and the press.

    John McGuirk is a troll and has been a troll his entire adult life. The only thing that makes him remarkable is that he doesn't just confine his trolling to the internet. He scorches the earth around him and then points the finger at everyone else.

    The T4Y campaign has already covered their arse on this. Donors are required to provide a declaration that they are an Irish citizen or Irish resident before they can donate. If someone notifies them that a donation doesn't appear to be from an Irish citizen or resident, they can deal with that. But the declaration itself would be enough to say that they haven't intentionally taken any foreign donations.
    Wow what a lovely thing to do....:mad:
    I cant say im surprised given the tone and content of his tweets


  • #3904
    borderlinemeath
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,362 ✭✭✭borderlinemeath


    garbo speaks wrote: »
    There's a sucker born every minute.

    I'll donate another €50 every time you post a bitter little retort. Keep it up.


  • #3905
    garbo speaks
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 300 ✭✭garbo speaks


    I'm involved in a group that will be offering free lifts to and from polling stations for pensioners from nursing homes and other pensioners in and around our area who might otherwise not be able to travel to vote. The feedback against repeal has been overwhelming in the nursing homes we have already visited. I really think that the elderly vote will sink this referendum, so here's hoping they all get a chance to come out and vote.


  • #3906
    Triceratops Ballet
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,894 ✭✭✭Triceratops Ballet


    garbo speaks wrote: »
    I'm involved in a group that will be offering free lifts to and from polling stations for pensioners from nursing homes and other pensioners in and around our area who might otherwise not be able to travel to vote. The feedback against repeal has been overwhelming in the nursing homes we have already visited. I really think that the elderly vote will sink this referendum, so here's hoping they all get a chance to come out and vote.

    This is why it's important for anyone who has been through an abortion in England, or had their care compromised by the 8th to speak to their family, even if it might be an uncomfortable conversation. It's easy to stick with the status quo when you don't know how it affects the people you love


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  • #3907
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    garbo speaks wrote: »
    I'm involved in a group that will be offering free lifts to and from polling stations for pensioners from nursing homes and other pensioners in and around our area who might otherwise not be able to travel to vote. The feedback against repeal has been overwhelming in the nursing homes we have already visited. I really think that the elderly vote will sink this referendum, so here's hoping they all get a chance to come out and vote.

    Here's hoping they realise that the Ireland of today is a very different Ireland to that they grew up in (thank goodness), and can be selfless enough to see beyond their own personal morals and opinions and vote Yes to allow everyone their choice.

    The pensioners of Ireland will not have to live with the consequences of this referendum, but their grandchildren, and future generations will.


  • #3908
    Banjaxed82
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,967 ✭✭✭Banjaxed82


    Genuine question...what groups from the no campaign have no religious motivation behind their stance?


  • #3909
    JDD
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭JDD


    garbo speaks wrote: »
    I'm involved in a group that will be offering free lifts to and from polling stations for pensioners from nursing homes and other pensioners in and around our area who might otherwise not be able to travel to vote. The feedback against repeal has been overwhelming in the nursing homes we have already visited. I really think that the elderly vote will sink this referendum, so here's hoping they all get a chance to come out and vote.

    Nobody knows how anyone is going to vote until they're in that polling booth, and the tendency when your peer group all voice a certain view, you will also, in public, agree with that view. So I wouldn't be betting your house that everyone you spoke to in that nursing home will vote to keep the 8th.

    Having said that, even if every last person you bus to the polling station votes to keep the 8th, I think what you're doing is genuinely good. Everyone who is eligible to vote should have a chance to vote. You are increasing the democratic pool. That is a good thing.


  • #3910
    JDD
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭JDD


    Garbo Speaks, you appear to be a straight talker, unafraid to take a controversial stance. I posted a few pages back my own situation, quoted below, and asked for feedback from pro-lifers. What is your view - A or B?
    Bertieinexile, pleas advise, you’re both online, you might answer my question.

    During my last pregnancy it was suspected I had placenta accretia (google it). Very luckily, in the end, I did not. However, I was informed that should I get pregnant again, I would have a 70% chance of it occurring.

    Statistics on placenta accretia are hard to come by as it is historically a rare complication latterly on the rise. From my own research and from the discussions with my consultant I was told the condition has a 7% mortality rate, a 30% chance of permanent injury to my non-uterus internal organs and an 80% chance I would lose my uterus.

    As a result I had a tubal ligation. But no contraceptive is a fail safe. What do YOU advise as my current course of action:

    A. Refrain from having sex with my husband until go through the menopause;

    B. Have sex with my husband but, should my contraception fail, accept that I would have a 1 in 20 chance of dying, and a 1 in 5 chance of suffering a serious life debititating injury should I bring the pregnancy to full term.

    Bear in mind that I have three young children who would be left without a mother if the 1 in 20 chance came to pass.

    Your beliefs mean my choice has to be A or B.


  • #3911
    JDD
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭JDD


    Garbo Speaks, you appear to be a straight talker, unafraid to take a controversial stance. I posted a few pages back my own situation, quoted below, and asked for feedback from pro-lifers. What is your view - A or B?
    Bertieinexile, pleas advise, you’re both online, you might answer my question.

    During my last pregnancy it was suspected I had placenta accretia (google it). Very luckily, in the end, I did not. However, I was informed that should I get pregnant again, I would have a 70% chance of it occurring.

    Statistics on placenta accretia are hard to come by as it is historically a rare complication latterly on the rise. From my own research and from the discussions with my consultant I was told the condition has a 7% mortality rate, a 30% chance of permanent injury to my non-uterus internal organs and an 80% chance I would lose my uterus.

    As a result I had a tubal ligation. But no contraceptive is a fail safe. What do YOU advise as my current course of action:

    A. Refrain from having sex with my husband until go through the menopause;

    B. Have sex with my husband but, should my contraception fail, accept that I would have a 1 in 20 chance of dying, and a 1 in 5 chance of suffering a serious life debititating injury should I bring the pregnancy to full term.

    Bear in mind that I have three young children who would be left without a mother if the 1 in 20 chance came to pass.

    Your beliefs mean my choice has to be A or B.


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  • #3912
    Schorpio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,330 ✭✭✭Schorpio


    garbo speaks wrote: »
    I'm involved in a group that will be offering free lifts to and from polling stations for pensioners from nursing homes and other pensioners in and around our area who might otherwise not be able to travel to vote. The feedback against repeal has been overwhelming in the nursing homes we have already visited. I really think that the elderly vote will sink this referendum, so here's hoping they all get a chance to come out and vote.

    Ah yes, the elderly. The group who grew up in a staunchly Catholic society, and for which the outcome of this referendum will likely affect the least.

    If anti-Repealers really cared about the issue, they might be speaking to (and trying to canvass) those whose lives are affected the most i.e. the young women and men of this country. And I do mean speaking, not scaremongering.

    Donated €20 lads. It's a good cause and the county needs to be done with this once and for all. Reposting the link for visibility - https://togetherforyes.causevox.com/


  • #3913
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    This post has been deleted.


  • #3914
    Sofiztikated
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Sofiztikated


    garbo speaks wrote: »
    I'm involved in a group that will be offering free lifts to and from polling stations for pensioners from nursing homes and other pensioners in and around our area who might otherwise not be able to travel to vote. The feedback against repeal has been overwhelming in the nursing homes we have already visited. I really think that the elderly vote will sink this referendum, so here's hoping they all get a chance to come out and vote.

    Fair play, and I hope you keep up the lifts for local and national elections as well.

    And will you keep up your visits to them when this is over, or will you abandon them like you so freely abandon women and children at the moment?


  • #3915
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Trasna1 wrote: »
    Sean Gallagher managed to come second in a presidential election without posters

    2nd in a referendum is not a good result.


  • #3916
    Turbohymac
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 471 ✭✭Turbohymac


    It's absolutely amazing all those who want change has actually already been born .. their either very sad in their existing lives but I bet if the clock was turned back they would hope that their parents wouldn't terminate their chance of life when they were pre 12 weeks unborn.. for some of us citizens who has had years of uphill battles with failed ivf etc . We actually look a bit more positive to giving every life the chance it deserves. We all have opinions but it's sad to imagine just how little value has now been placed on human life


  • #3917
    uptherebels
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,078 ✭✭✭uptherebels


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Your question is totally irrelevant as it doesn't matter one way or the other.

    Funny how anti choicers on here keep deeming things they won't answer because it sinks their arguement as irrelevant


  • #3918
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Banjaxed82 wrote: »
    Genuine question...what groups from the no campaign have no religious motivation behind their stance?

    Good luck getting a straight answer to that one.


  • #3919
    ELM327
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,123 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    garbo speaks wrote: »
    I'm involved in a group that will be offering free lifts to and from polling stations for pensioners from nursing homes and other pensioners in and around our area who might otherwise not be able to travel to vote. The feedback against repeal has been overwhelming in the nursing homes we have already visited. I really think that the elderly vote will sink this referendum, so here's hoping they all get a chance to come out and vote.
    JDD wrote: »
    Nobody knows how anyone is going to vote until they're in that polling booth, and the tendency when your peer group all voice a certain view, you will also, in public, agree with that view. So I wouldn't be betting your house that everyone you spoke to in that nursing home will vote to keep the 8th.

    Having said that, even if every last person you bus to the polling station votes to keep the 8th, I think what you're doing is genuinely good. Everyone who is eligible to vote should have a chance to vote. You are increasing the democratic pool. That is a good thing.


    I don't share your sentiment.
    Why should someone living out their last couple of years have the ability to enforce decades of servitude and forced incubation on young women, some of which may not even have been born yet.

    That generation should be ashamed of itself, for the rubbish it has left us with. I was not eligible to vote in 1983 but I will make sure to vote early and often in this referendum that's for sure. I've also offered to any of my ex-pat friends who are eligible to vote that I will pay for them to fly in to vote (of course they would vote yes) and have canvassed all of my social group to do the same.


    #repealthe8th
    #trustourwomen


  • #3920
    dudara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,518 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    If I had been terminated, my consciousness simply wouldn’t have been. And because it wouldn’t have been, then I wouldn’t have been. I can’t miss what I never ever would have had. It’s a waste of emotional energy to think of it like that.

    I get where you’re coming from emotionally, bug please, apply some logic. You can’t miss what you never had.


  • #3921
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    Turbohymac wrote: »
    for some of us citizens who has had years of uphill battles with failed ivf etc .

    IVF involves killing tiny human beings or freezing them indefinitely (if indeed human beings appear at conception as many pro-lifers tell us), so it should be as illegal as abortion is.

    Or just as legal, if the tiny human being stuff is nonsense as pro-choicers generally think.


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  • #3922
    Eponymous
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,374 ✭✭✭Eponymous


    I've donated.


  • #3923
    dudara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,518 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    Banjaxed82 wrote: »
    Genuine question...what groups from the no campaign have no religious motivation behind their stance?

    I think I saw mention of one aetheist anti-choice group. Can’t remember their name though.


  • #3924
    .......
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,057 ✭✭✭.......


    This post has been deleted.


  • #3925
    Sofiztikated
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Sofiztikated


    Turbohymac wrote: »
    It's absolutely amazing all those who want change has actually already been born .. their either very sad in their existing lives but I bet if the clock was turned back they would hope that their parents wouldn't terminate their chance of life when they were pre 12 weeks unborn.. for some of us citizens who has had years of uphill battles with failed ivf etc . We actually look a bit more positive to giving every life the chance it deserves. We all have opinions but it's sad to imagine just how little value has now been placed on human life

    If abortion had been a available, my mother has said that if she knew the hurt and pain both she and I have been through, she would have considered one. I'm perfectly OK with that.

    My partner and I have lost a much wanted child through miscarriage, and are looking down a long road if we want children.

    Still perfectly fine with Repeal, perfectly fine with abortion without restriction to 12 weeks, and later if necessary.


  • #3926
    Triceratops Ballet
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,894 ✭✭✭Triceratops Ballet


    Turbohymac wrote: »
    It's absolutely amazing all those who want change has actually already been born .. their either very sad in their existing lives but I bet if the clock was turned back they would hope that their parents wouldn't terminate their chance of life when they were pre 12 weeks unborn.. for some of us citizens who has had years of uphill battles with failed ivf etc . We actually look a bit more positive to giving every life the chance it deserves. We all have opinions but it's sad to imagine just how little value has now been placed on human life

    Of course those of us with opinions are the ones already born, because the unborn can't speak, or think, or act or live independently. If my parents had chosen an abortion I wouldn't know anything about it to have feelings, if access to abortion meant my mother wouldn't have had me then that's just the way it is. I want all women to have a choice and I want all women to have the right to refuse or consent to medical treatment during pregnancy, I am aware that could have resulted in many of us here not being born, but I believe in the freedom of self determination.

    I have a lot of empathy for people who want children and can't have them, it's a desperately sad situation, but I also believe that people who don't want children and find themselves pregnant should be forced to have them. That doesn't actually help people who can't have kids.

    I think it's sad to imagine forcing women to remain pregnant against their will


  • #3927
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Turbohymac wrote: »
    It's absolutely amazing all those who want change has actually already been born .. their either very sad in their existing lives but I bet if the clock was turned back they would hope that their parents wouldn't terminate their chance of life when they were pre 12 weeks unborn.. for some of us citizens who has had years of uphill battles with failed ivf etc . We actually look a bit more positive to giving every life the chance it deserves. We all have opinions but it's sad to imagine just how little value has now been placed on human life


    I know I've said this on the thread before but I'm am one who would fully understand if my mother chose to abort me. I would never ask anyone I love to go through what she did. Not that I would have any consciousness of the fact...

    You may want children, but given the huge amount of reasons there is for an abortion, given the number of things the 8th affects, and given the number of women who have suffered and died due to the 8th... it needs to go.

    I, and many other pro-choice, would love if there never has to be an abortion again. That is not reality though.


  • #3928
    JDD
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭JDD


    Turbohymac wrote: »
    It's absolutely amazing all those who want change has actually already been born .. their either very sad in their existing lives but I bet if the clock was turned back they would hope that their parents wouldn't terminate their chance of life when they were pre 12 weeks unborn.. for some of us citizens who has had years of uphill battles with failed ivf etc . We actually look a bit more positive to giving every life the chance it deserves. We all have opinions but it's sad to imagine just how little value has now been placed on human life

    Did you really get IVF? Really? I don't actually believe you. If you were pro-life you would not partake in IVF treatment as the treatment involves discarding non-viable fertlised eggs. How do you reconcile your pro-life stance with your partaking in IVF?

    You realise the fact that you exist is absolute chance? Another egg might have been released, a different sperm might have been successful, it all might have happened on a different day of the month and you would never have been implanted at all. I know that there is an absolute infinite number of random reasons why I might not exist, in addition to perhaps my parents choosing to terminate the pregnancy. I don't dwell on those aspects at all.


  • #3929
    applehunter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,056 ✭✭✭applehunter


    I was at a whist drive in the community centre on Monday evening and there is was a big pro life feeling in the room.


  • #3930
    captbarnacles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,972 ✭✭✭captbarnacles


    That's a spectacular way to sink your own point because IVF results in thousands of embryos never getting a chance at life as you put it.


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  • #3931
    _Dara_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,971 ✭✭✭_Dara_


    Turbohymac wrote: »
    It's absolutely amazing all those who want change has actually already been born .. their either very sad in their existing lives but I bet if the clock was turned back they would hope that their parents wouldn't terminate their chance of life when they were pre 12 weeks unborn.. for some of us citizens who has had years of uphill battles with failed ivf etc . We actually look a bit more positive to giving every life the chance it deserves. We all have opinions but it's sad to imagine just how little value has now been placed on human life

    That other couples desperately want children is of no relevance.

    Reminds me of the kid who misguidedly went the Late Late Show to say that suicidal people shouldn’t be suicidal because other people like him are dying but want to live.

    The two things are completely separate. I understand that IVF is agonising but nobody is trying to upset people who are going through it.


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