6 year old unable to join club

And most clubs are full, don't have enough coaches to take any more kids.

Start off with junior parkrun if there's one close by

8+ here in most the Wicklow clubs.

GRGero wrote:

Hi could someone back this up,I think I was told a lie by a gentleman from Dublin strider club,I want to join my 6 year old son into this club but he told me for insurance reasons he can't I also seen some kids that looked about 7 / 6,Any advice or direction ?

They are probably maxed out on the number they can have at that age group. For insurance purposes can only have a certain number per coach.

I know in our club they're struggling with coaches for juveniles and parents are not willing too help out.

GRGero wrote: »

Hi could someone back this up,I think I was told a lie by a gentleman from Dublin strider club,I want to join my 6 year old son into this club but he told me for insurance reasons he can't I also seen some kids that looked about 7 / 6,Any advice or direction ?

Maybe he didn't lie, but just misinformed you. There is a difference.

6 is too young really.

rom wrote: »

I had a similar idea that I could bring my 6 year old to a club. Just as running may give them life long way to exercise. Having talked around to a few people I am not going to. Most kids who get into early give it up. They are turned off it. Having to travel to races etc. Was talking to an ex elite guy about same and he said wait for a few years at least. There is every other sport they could do in the mean time.

Many may disagree but being in a club at that age seriously turned me off it so much so that I didn't run for about 15 years.

There are a load of under 12 kids in our club doing four or five sports, plus things like scouts, drama, dance, etc etc. They are not going to be doing all of these things at 17, so obviously _most_ kids drop _most_ activities.

And they all require travel, to matches, to rehearsal, to camping trips, to competitions... If the kid enjoys the activity, they won't mind the travel.

County,Provence, All-Ireland in indoor, XC, Club and school XC traveling up and down the country. If kids in GAA were doing the same there would be uproar. Now if anyone is any good at the sport they would be pushed to do many of these year after year. By the time they were 18 they could have done a load of all irelands. It would mean little.

Its a small sport in Ireland compared to the big 3 with way too many competitions. At the end of the day most people want their kids in sport for well being and have them a well rounded person rather than driving them long distance to an event of 500 where 3 get medals.

pconn062 wrote: »

The biggest issue is lack of coaches. Especially for the younger kids who require a much greater level of minding and watching. It's pretty much a babysitting service, and parents are reluctant/couldn't be bothered getting involved in coaching. My own club has a specific training night for 5-7 year olds but it's a LOT of work and involves twice as many coaches for only half the number of kids.

Thats probably accurate - but when you say Parents are reluctant to get involved - make sure you test that.

To my mind, there is no excuse for parents to be standing watching/ chatting and not getting involved.

This whole 'I dont know anything about that sort of thing' .....sorry, it doesnt wash.

Junior training in any sport is basically the parents of other kids looking after your kids while they are doing sport. A lot of parents come in with a very entitled attitude about clubs - they need to see a club for what it actually is.

Athletics struggle to get parents involved because simply they wouldn't know what to do, I struggle to come up with my own training plans let alone for x amount of kids every week.
As with football and more recently GAA, more and more parents get involved because the clubs offer them the chance to do kick start courses that get them onto the bottom ladder of their coaching. Some parents go on to complete various other coaching badges that these clubs then benefit from. Senior clubs then benefit the kids coming through to the academies which is why a lot of the big teams put a lot of emphasis into their youth structure
Is there similar courses run for athletics coaching ?

So a glorified babysitter is what clubs need ?
At what point does training become relevant for kids ? S & C classes are now being introduced into football academies as this benefits the kids long term, there still fun and kids enjoy it.
Irish athletics in eyes is being left behind because of the attitude "training is irrelevant". You can still train and coach the kids and have fun if you had parents who knew what they were at and not "baby sitting" which was the point I was making

Rossi7 wrote: »

So a glorified babysitter is what clubs need ?
At what point does training become relevant for kids ? S & C classes are now being introduced into football academies as this benefits the kids long term, there still fun and kids enjoy it.
Irish athletics in eyes is being left behind because of the attitude "training is irrelevant". You can still train and coach the kids and have fun if you had parents who knew what they were at and not "baby sitting" which was the point I was making

No thats not it.

Training is of course relevant. They are building up skills that stay with them over time.

But say for example you are doing a Long Jump. And you have 15 kids in a line - aged 6-8. Those kids are not going to stand quietly waiting for their turn....I;m stating the obvious here.

You can have one qualified coach that spends their whole time keeping them from messing.

Or you can have one qualified coach that focuses on the child jumping, and two other parents/ mentors that can (i) keep the kids in check, and (ii) take directions from the coach in helping the kids with technique.

As a parent/ mentor/ coach it is genuinely stressful when you've got too many kids and they get out of control. What adds considerably to this stress is the notion that parents of said kids are all standing over in the corner, having a nice chat while this is going on.

I think its unfair to compare Athletics clubs to GAA clubs, because we all know that GAA clubs have basically hoovered up - they are the market leader and have more spending capacity and people capacity than anyone else.

rom wrote: »

County,Provence, All-Ireland in indoor, XC, Club and school XC traveling up and down the country. If kids in GAA were doing the same there would be uproar. Now if anyone is any good at the sport they would be pushed to do many of these year after year. By the time they were 18 they could have done a load of all irelands. It would mean little

National indoor competition starts at under 12.
National XC starts at under 11.
National team championships/relays start at under 9.
I believe the same for provincial championships.

So there is one day of competition per year when 8 or 9 year old kids could travel outside the county.

Let's say the kid is in Dublin. The absolute most they can do, at 8 or 9, is
3 XC league races
1 XC championship
4 track leagues
1 day of Indoor championships
1 day of team championships
1 day at nationals

GAA has football leagues for under 8s
Soccer has the South Dublin Football League, also under 8s.

They mightn't involve driving to Athlone or Tullamore, but they mean driving somewhere every other weekend - at least as much travel as the kid going to those 11 athletics competitions.

Swimming has inter-club meets from age 9
Rugby doesn't allow under 7s to play full-contact games, but at u8 level they can.
What sport doesn't have some form of competition at a young age?

And do you know why? Because kids like to compete! They like to see how good they are. Runners like to race, footballers like to play matches. There's a lot of debate among coaches about juvenile competition, how young they should start, how much they should do... one of the main drivers of the current level of competition is that kids want to compete.

rom wrote: »

Its a small sport in Ireland compared to the big 3 with way too many competitions. At the end of the day most people want their kids in sport for well being and have them a well rounded person rather than driving them long distance to an event of 500 where 3 get medals.

Way too many competitions :rolleyes:

Compared to what?

And what, exactly, is this far away event with 500 competitors where only 3 get medals?

walshb wrote: »

Parents for the most part should be banned as regards training participation.

That is what generally leads to hassle and aggro....

A free for all as regards parents is just asking for trouble.

In which case you have no training full stop.

There are swings and roundabouts with the current system but again this business of comparing it with the GAA is unreasonable.

Also, it is seeing things with a Dublin lens.

Believe it or not, kids in Kerry or Donegal frequently find themselve travelling a long way to play games.

You get rid of intercounty system, and just play within the county like the GAA does, then you might find that clubs in say Longford or Sligo dont have much competition.

RayCun wrote: »

I've realized the reason this annoys me so much is that I am always hearing, from the parents of young kids, "Sorry, x can't do that this weekend, s/he has a match" Sometimes it's a competition they are missing, sometimes it is training.

So the idea that athletics is some sort of treadmill of endless competition, while other sports only get the kids together for a chance to pick dandelions and engage in creative play... :rolleyes:

And if you think athletics coaches put pressure on kids to compete, it is nothing compared to the pressure on kids in team sports, who are told that if they miss matches or training they're off the team.

Did you ever think the kid made the decision?
I don't make the decision what matches my kids play when they clash with other sports, they pick them.

average_runner wrote: »

Did you ever think the kid made the decision?
I don't make the decision what matches my kids play when they clash with other sports, they pick them.

But they may pick the match knowing that if they don't pick the match this weekend, they won't be on the team next weekend. But the athletics coach isn't going to tell them they can't run in the Dublin championships because they didn't run in the league.

RayCun wrote: »

But they may pick the match knowing that if they don't pick the match this weekend, they won't be on the team next weekend. But the athletics coach isn't going to tell them they can't run in the Dublin championships because they didn't run in the league.

It doesn't work that way under 10 down anyhow.

Also kids would usually play two different sports on a sat, athletics rules this out, as their meets are a full day for 3 mins of activity. Kids dont like missing more than one thing.

davedanon wrote: »

There isn't a meet every weekend though, far from it. I agree with Ray, there is far less pressure in athletics, and the reason for that is the knowledge that we have a niche sport that is stripped of all the bells and whistles that attract kids to team sports - the group camaraderie, the lack of personal blame for failure, the scoring of points and goals, and the constant competition of games every weekend. Athletics is a lonely pursuit by comparison, and any athletics coach getting on to parents demanding attendance at events would be laughed out of it.

I've been a junior soccer coach, and the behaviour of 'some' parents is frequently deplorable. GAA has a worse reputation again. Nothing to do with the sport in itself: it's just that the GAA is top dog. People feel they can do as they please. But as for parents being involved in training, once the roles and duties are clearly defined, there shouldn't be a problem.

As I run through Tymon park and see little kids being coached in gaelic football and hurling, the impression I get is that is really regimented. Kids as young as 8 being yelled at by coaches in that incessant way - "do it, do it, chase back, close him down, back in position" - a constant haranguing that to my mind is totally inappropriate with kids that young.

I feel bad doing it when I'm coaching my 14/16 year olds in school at their team sports tbf. Kids don't like being shouted at.

RayCun wrote: »

Can you imagine going on the soccer forum and telling people that you are going to wait until your kids are 12 before sending them to a club? After all, by then the pitches and goals won't seem so big, and they'll be tough enough for the crunching tackles...

Honestly I would think its more of a mental thing than a physical thing. If they are in a team sport there is a strong probability that they will end up winning a game or two now and then. Mentally this does wonders for them.

Take XC from a young child perspective. You mean that they will run lots of races and always be mid pack or towards the back. In young kids there is winning and losing.

My kids ask me about my races and did I win x big race etc when it could be big numbers in the race (not taking away from the point that I am average). If I came first in the local parkrun that would be a huge deal but top 100s in a big marathon would mean nothing to them.

I love the sport and want my kids to too. There is a big reason why kids in teens drop off more so than team sports. In a stage of their life where they are very self conscious there are less ups than downs.

Athletes in Dublin do have a big advantage when it comes to meets. Athletes who are from more rural areas would be on the road every weekend.

Just checked a successful athletics club at under age here. They have on their application form that if you are selected for a team you must compete. :rolleyes:

This is not a discussion on if team sports are better for kids or anything like that more that there are issues with athletics that need to be identified. IMHO there should be no individual medals in many events for kids especially XC, longer relays. Just have team medals. The better ones on the team are more likely to stick with the sport if they have people who share the same goal. The weaker members will have something to aspire to.

davedanon wrote: »

If you're referring to my post, then you're either being disingenuous, or lazy, or you didn't read it properly. I didn't run down any other sports. It's all part of the same syndrome. Shouty, angry parents and hectoring coaches. A junior game in any sport is a cacophony of shouting and roaring. I don't know what you do about it, but there's evidently something wrong when a grown adult abuses A) a player, or the referee. Both of which I experienced, along with being abused at great volume by a young fella's dad about 20 feet from the opposition team/manager/parents, because his kid had "ONLY GOT 8 MINUTES", of a 20 minute game. I made a point that every kid got at least a full half in every game, no exceptions. He had obviously been timing his kid's game time. After that I brought my Garmin to every game. Me and some of the parents agreed afterward that in general he was a bit of a psychopath.

After I gave up coaching, he took over the team.

I wasnt referring to any particular post but more so to the general theme of the last few years on here.

People can confuse coaches instructing and coaching from the sidelines in a dignified and coaching manner with shouting and roaring...

RayCun wrote: »

A lot of the kids who are in our club at 8, 10, 12... aren't there at 11, 13, 16, there's always a drop-off.
But the kids who are still in the club, at 14/15 - when they were 10/11, they were doing other sports and activities as well, and now they mostly just do athletics.

I don't think athletics is particularly regimented compared to other sports. Football training is more complicated than throwing a ball into a pack of kids and letting them chase it, after all. With any sport, if you have a coach trying to do something more technical with one kid, you want another coach to keep an eye on everyone else.

I'd agree with that.

Training for say gaelic football and hurling needs to be quite regimented. Sure you can just 'let them play matches' and then the best players will get plenty of opportunity with ball in hand. And you'll have other players that in ten weeks of training might get ten opportunities to hit the ball out of their hand.

Even teaching the basic skills requires lots of drills, never mind the more complicated ones.