London Cops arrest pensioner for defending himself

Graces7 · 04-04-2018 06:56PM

jimgoose wrote: »

As others have said, it is completely normal for a person to be arrested pending some fact-finding in a situation like this where someone is killed. I would be surprised if the elderly man is charged with anything in the end.

Poor old man. Gets burgled and ends up arrested.

Noveight · 04-04-2018 07:03PM

jmayo wrote: »

Nally did society one almighty favour.

Hear, hear!

NickNickleby · 04-04-2018 07:04PM

Bummer1234 wrote: »

One thing for sure is....They won't burgle that house again!

Actually, its something I've thought about when considering what I'd do in a break-in. Remember, they now know where he lives, so to speak. Will probably spend the rest of his life looking over his shoulder.

KERSPLAT! · 04-04-2018 07:09PM

seamus wrote: »

I think that was the core of the reasoning behind his eventual acquittal.

I didn't agree with the verdict, but I certainly understand how they would come to that conclusion; that in Nally's mind the only way to guarantee his safety was to pull that trigger. He believed that if he didn't he was a dead man.

What's interesting is looking at interviews with Nally a decade after the fact and after the dust has settled. In 2014 he gave several interviews about how he "lives in fear" now about revenge attacks and hasn't slept properly in a decade.
Yet, there never were any repercussions.

So it seems pretty likely that Nally suffers from deeply paranoid and irrational thoughts. Which would explain much of his behaviour before the shooting. He should maybe have been sent to the central mental hospital instead of Mountjoy after his original conviction.

Who knows when a relative will take it upon themselves to retaliate. However unlikely he's an old man living on his own. If I were in his shoes I expect I'd feel the same way, though I'd have long left in any case.

Odyssey 2005 · 04-04-2018 07:11PM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Always thought that Nally, Frog Ward Trial reversal was wrong.

I know Nally was harassed over a long period of time and the law did nothing to help him but jaysus lads he blasted frog, went back inside to load up then went out to finish the frog before dumping him over an iron gate. A wounded Frog was trying to retreat at the time his killer returned.

Is that justifiable homicide? There was time there in between for Nally to regain his senses. He used excessive force

He murdered him in my view. Both the mens rea and actus reus are present.

So...whats the problem. Nallys mistake was not having the ammo in his pocket. On the other hand, ward suffered for longer.

Danny Donut · 04-04-2018 07:14PM

CeilingFly wrote: »

The difference here is that usually the person is treated an awful lot better and usually questioned under caution rather than a publically named as "being arrested for murder".

If a person is to answer questions under caution its unlikely to be undertaken voluntarily.

If a person is arrested, it should be reported, otherwise we end up like certain South American republics.

dexter_morgan · 04-04-2018 07:22PM

Hmm... The article says that one of the burglars was armed with a screwdriver but it doesn't say if it is a philips or a flathead!

super_furry · 04-04-2018 07:36PM

dexter_morgan wrote: »

Hmm... The article says that one of the burglars was armed with a screwdriver but it doesn't say if it is a philips or a flathead!

Let's not jump to conclusions, it could have been a cocktail.

end of the road · 04-04-2018 08:17PM

CeilingFly wrote: »

In the UK, cops far too often search for the biggest headline no matter whether the person is wholly inncoent or not.

no they just arrest someone where there is a death involved. it's as simple as that.

CeilingFly wrote: »

This elderly man was defending himself against two pieces of dirt who threatened him with a screwdriver. He got the nearest thign to him and defended hmslef in his own home.

as it stands, that statement is "allegedly" only, until proven otherwise.

CeilingFly wrote: »

As i said, UK cops are too gungho with their statements - in this case "under arrest for murder".

they have to follow procedure. that's not being gungho.

Accidentally wrote: »

On the other hand, if you let him live he will be back to get you when he has recovered.

that's irrelevant. what may happen in the future means nothing. it's about the there and then only.

dresden8 · 04-04-2018 08:33PM

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Did the OP forget to include the minor detail that the other party was killed in the thread title

As already said, in a fatal altercation between two partys, it's pretty much standard procedure that the person who caused the death (rightfully or wrongly) would be arrested and taken in to establish the facts.

Read his rights and formal statements taken. Arrest is not conviction.

4068ac1elhodqr · 04-04-2018 08:47PM

Just seen a picture of the good man who was defending himself, looks rather like 'Mr Miyagi', which might explain alot.
Will upload in a few seconds.

4068ac1elhodqr · 04-04-2018 08:49PM

This picture is from the Mirror, taken when he visited D for a couple of Guinness (at the same time), fair play to the 78yr old.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/first-picture-pensioner-78-arrested-12304310

Spanish Eyes · 04-04-2018 08:52PM

I often wonder how many women would be in a position to fight back. Far as I know all perpetrators of intruder killings were men. But I am sure someone will put me right.

Anyway. Just saying.

04-04-2018 08:59PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I often wonder how many women would be in a position to fight back. Far as I know all perpetrators of intruder killings were men. But I am sure someone will put me right.

Anyway. Just saying.

There was an interesting video of a woman in dublin defending herself against a bag snatcher who attacked her with some sort of a knife a few days ago, she refused to let go and threw a few kicks at him, I will see if I can find it

Infini · 04-04-2018 09:00PM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Always thought that Nally, Frog Ward Trial reversal was wrong.

I know Nally was harassed over a long period of time and the law did nothing to help him but jaysus lads he blasted frog, went back inside to load up then went out to finish the frog before dumping him over an iron gate. A wounded Frog was trying to retreat at the time his killer returned.

Is that justifiable homicide? There was time there in between for Nally to regain his senses. He used excessive force

He murdered him in my view. Both the mens rea and actus reus are present.

As far as I'm concerned Mcnally was a fecking national hero. There's only so much you can take before it reaches breaking point and as far as I'm concerned that piece of shyte Ward signed his own death warrant. It would be different if scum like Ward were locked away properly so it doesnt reach that point but noone should have to tolerate these lowlifes threatening innocents in their own home.

I seriously doubt they'll charge that pensioner the lowlife got what he deserved by thinking he could rob an innocent old man but got exactly what was coming to him for it.

NIMAN · 04-04-2018 09:02PM

This case will definitely be worth following.

Most right thinking folk would side with the pensioner in this case, will be interesting to see how the law decides.

NIMAN · 04-04-2018 09:02PM

This case will definitely be worth following.

Most right thinking folk would side with the pensioner in this case, will be interesting to see how the law decides.

04-04-2018 09:03PM

riffmongous wrote: »

There was an interesting video of a woman in dublin defending herself against a bag snatcher who attacked her with some sort of a knife a few days ago, she refused to let go and threw a few kicks at him, I will see if I can find it

This was it

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/crime/woman-left-with-stab-wounds-after-attempted-robbery-terrifying-incident-caught-on-cctv-36765914.html

Ken. · 04-04-2018 09:13PM

My brother was telling me that, if in England(UK) you are brought in to 'help the police with their enquiries' you are not entitled to a solicitor and you could say something to get you in trouble. If you are arrested a whole set of rules kick in where you can get a solicitor/appropriate adult. So in this case the arrest is more of a help to the old man.

Capt'n Midnight · 04-04-2018 09:20PM

dexter_morgan wrote: »

Hmm... The article says that one of the burglars was armed with a screwdriver but it doesn't say if it is a philips or a flathead!

Odds on then that it's a Pozidriv.

Just don't get me started ...

Danny Donut · 04-04-2018 09:22PM

Conspectus wrote: »

My brother was telling me that, if in England(UK) you are brought in to 'help the police with their enquiries' you are not entitled to a solicitor and you could say something to get you in trouble. If you are arrested a whole set of rules kick in where you can get a solicitor/appropriate adult. So in this case the arrest is more of a help to the old man.

Yes agreed. But not "entitled" means you can't avail of the free duty sol - you can always have your own and if you don't want to speak without legal advice (paid for by you) - so be it.

Dai John · 04-04-2018 09:23PM

Under UK law if you are in fear of your life you can defend yourself with reasonable force. If the intruder has a knife it is ok to blast him with a shotgun, however you must shoot him in the front of his body. If you shoot him in the back it is assumed he was going away and did not represent a threat. At 78 or whatever it would be best to blast away at these lowlifes and admit to everything, that way you get to spend the rest of your life in comparative luxury in a nice clean cell with 3 square meals a day etc.

Spanish Eyes · 04-04-2018 09:24PM

riffmongous wrote: »

This was it

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/crime/woman-left-with-stab-wounds-after-attempted-robbery-terrifying-incident-caught-on-cctv-36765914.html

That was not in her sanctuary, her home though. And there was CCTV footage too. An awful attack none the less.

McMurphy · 04-04-2018 09:27PM

dresden8 wrote: »

Read his rights and formal statements taken. Arrest is not conviction.

Who said anything about a conviction

Donald Trump · 04-04-2018 10:25PM

riffmongous wrote: »

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I often wonder how many women would be in a position to fight back. Far as I know all perpetrators of intruder killings were men. But I am sure someone will put me right.

Anyway. Just saying.

There was an interesting video of a woman in dublin defending herself against a bag snatcher who attacked her with some sort of a knife a few days ago, she refused to let go and threw a few kicks at him, I will see if I can find it

This wan?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cxNNzdp8eU

Anyone know how to contact her? I want to try to see whether I can get her to patrol the border with Mexico. No need for a wall with that wan roaring at the Mexicanos. Would save me a fortune

Spanish Eyes · 04-04-2018 11:08PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

This wan?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cxNNzdp8eU

Anyone know how to contact her? I want to try to see whether I can get her to patrol the border with Mexico. No need for a wall with that wan roaring at the Mexicanos. Would save me a fortune

Again, that is not a representation of someone breaking into your home with bad intent Is it?

I think drink and/or drugs involved there on the street. But I may be wrong.

STB. · 04-04-2018 11:16PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

That was not in her sanctuary, her home though. And there was CCTV footage too. An awful attack none the less.

Its in the common area entrance to an apartment complex in Clondalkin.
There are actually three armed burglary cases pending involving this teenager over the course of last weekend.

Whilst there are better protections if you were at home, the same reasons apply to using reasonable self-defence. If the gravity of the situation requires force to protect oneselfs even if that may result in the death of an assailant then its the lawfulness is what comes into it.

It would be very difficult to explain any form of calculation on the person attacked especially for self preservation, when you are being attacked by someone brandishing a knife in a slashing manner.

ED E · 04-04-2018 11:17PM

Kanye-West-and-his-big-chip-on-his-shoulder.gif&key=4f870624dd7744f6076fb5c4208af64e405ac20776cc763bb148d4372159fc2f

Baron Kurtz · 04-04-2018 11:22PM

Real Harry Brown stuff.

STB. · 04-04-2018 11:33PM

seamus wrote: »

I think that was the core of the reasoning behind his eventual acquittal.

I didn't agree with the verdict, but I certainly understand how they would come to that conclusion; that in Nally's mind the only way to guarantee his safety was to pull that trigger. He believed that if he didn't he was a dead man.

What's interesting is looking at interviews with Nally a decade after the fact and after the dust has settled. 1. In 2014 he gave several interviews about how he "lives in fear" now about revenge attacks and hasn't slept properly in a decade.
Yet, there never were any repercussions.

2. So it seems pretty likely that Nally suffers from deeply paranoid and irrational thoughts. Which would explain much of his behaviour before the shooting. He should maybe have been sent to the central mental hospital instead of Mountjoy after his original conviction.

1. Outside the normal person's inability to predict the future, it is of no help to someone reliving fear on a daily basis.

2. Thats some jump Seamus. I'd say it is pretty likely that post shooting that most people would have behavioual attributes that involve the words "paranoia" or "irrantional thoughts". I dont know how you have come to a conclusion that he was always that way or that he should have been committed to a mental hospital.

He was being terrorised prior to the shooting on his own property. As someone said earlier, he did the country a great service in highlighting the issue. Have you seen the number of cases throughout the country involving aggravated burglaries, particularly on vulnerable members of society ???

I am sure operation Thor hasn't escaped your attention.

London Cops arrest pensioner for defending himself

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