London Cops arrest pensioner for defending himself

CeilingFly · 04-04-2018 11:46AM #1

Thankfully we are in Ireland where the law is on your side when you defend yourself against scum who burgle you at 1am in the morning. Unfortunately in Britain, the burglars have the law on their side!

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/britain/pensioner-78-arrested-after-fatally-stabbing-burglar-who-broke-into-his-home-36773808.html

ED E · 04-04-2018 11:47AM

Its no different here.

Kristopherus · 04-04-2018 11:50AM

I'd be recommending the pensioner for a knighthood !!!

D3V!L · 04-04-2018 11:50AM

I spent 18 months going in and out of court for defending myself when assaulted. In the end it was thrown out thankfully. .

So as ED E said , no different here.

CeilingFly · 04-04-2018 12:00PM

ED E wrote: »

Its no different here.

It is, law has changed.

D3V!L · 04-04-2018 12:02PM

CeilingFly wrote: »

It is, law has changed.

In what way ?

Everlong1 · 04-04-2018 12:03PM

The article says the pernsioner was arrested. It doesn't say he'll be charged. Reading between the lines of the article it sounds like the police weren't 100% sure who was in the wrong and arrested the man just to cover themselves. For all they knew it could have been some kind of domestic dispute. When the facts are established the pensioner should be cleared.

Grayditch · 04-04-2018 12:03PM

Ah. The youngfella died doing the thing he loved. Some solace for his family, at least.

Graces7 · 04-04-2018 12:04PM

Arrested for GBH not murder? I think they would have had to arrest while investigating, post mortem etc rather than just saying, grand OK go back to bed sir. A man is dead.

Everlong1 · 04-04-2018 12:04PM

D3V!L wrote: »

I spent 18 months going in and out of court for defending myself when assaulted. In the end it was thrown out thankfully. .

So as ED E said , no different here.

Care to elaborate?

Hande hoche! · 04-04-2018 12:05PM

Grayditch wrote: »

Ah. The youngfella died doing the thing he loved. Some solace for his family, at least.

Burgling or getting penetrated by pensioners?

seamus · 04-04-2018 12:08PM

When someone has been killed by another person, the person is always arrested.

What do you want, the cops to say, "Ah yeah, that's grand sure, nothing to investigate here".

:rolleyes:

Nekarsulm · 04-04-2018 12:10PM

Same happens here.

https://amp.independent.ie/irish-news/farmer-whose-son-shot-burglar-lived-final-days-in-fortress-35422818.html

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 04-04-2018 12:14PM

The arrest, on suspicion, is standard procedure. The salient point is. will he be charged with anything?

Grayditch · 04-04-2018 12:15PM

"OK old man, where did you hide the silverware?"

"I know I keep some of it in... yer belly, lad" *stab*

Good times.

McMurphy · 04-04-2018 12:16PM

Did the OP forget to include the minor detail that the other party was killed in the thread title

As already said, in a fatal altercation between two partys, it's pretty much standard procedure that the person who caused the death (rightfully or wrongly) would be arrested and taken in to establish the facts.

major bill · 04-04-2018 12:58PM

Read it there

Not a chance this man will be charged. Police following procedures but man has a big case for self defence.

''There were initial reports the homeowner was forced into the kitchen by one of the suspects armed with a screwdriver while the other went upstairs.''

''Police said that, during a struggle, a 38-year-old man found inside the property sustained a stab injury to his upper body.''

jimgoose · 04-04-2018 01:01PM

As others have said, it is completely normal for a person to be arrested pending some fact-finding in a situation like this where someone is killed. I would be surprised if the elderly man is charged with anything in the end.

CeilingFly · 04-04-2018 03:41PM

The difference here is that usually the person is treated an awful lot better and usually questioned under caution rather than a publically named as "being arrested for murder".

Gardai will usually then send a file to dpp for direction.

In the UK, cops far too often search for the biggest headline no matter whether the person is wholly inncoent or not. This elderly man was defending himself against two pieces of dirt who threatened him with a screwdriver. He got the nearest thign to him and defended hmslef in his own home.

In Ireland Article 40.5 of the Constitution provides that: “The dwelling of every citizen is inviolable, and shall not be forcibly entered save in accordance with law.”

The Criminal Law (Defence and the Dwelling) Act 2011 affords protection to home owners by allowing them to act to defend their homes against those who enter illegally.

The 2011 Act recognises that even force which causes death can, in certain circumstances, be justified.

As i said, UK cops are too gungho with their statements - in this case "under arrest for murder". Thankfully here, the gardai treat people with more respect in such situations.

weldoninhio · 04-04-2018 03:44PM

CeilingFly wrote: »

The difference here is that usually the person is treated an awful lot better and usually questioned under caution rather than a publically named as "being arrested for murder".

Gardai will usually then send a file to dpp for direction.

In the UK, cops far too often search for the biggest headline no matter whether the person is wholly inncoent or not. This elderly man was defending himself against two pieces of dirt who threatened him with a screwdriver. He got the nearest thign to him and defended hmslef in his own home.

In Ireland Article 40.5 of the Constitution provides that: “The dwelling of every citizen is inviolable, and shall not be forcibly entered save in accordance with law.”

The Criminal Law (Defence and the Dwelling) Act 2011 affords protection to home owners by allowing them to act to defend their homes against those who enter illegally.

The 2011 Act recognises that even force which causes death can, in certain circumstances, be justified.

As i said, UK cops are too gungho with their statements - in this case "under arrest for murder". Thankfully here, the gardai treat people with more respect in such situations.

I didn't know cops wrote the headlines for newspapers. Is that only in UK or everywhere??

El Weirdo · 04-04-2018 03:51PM

CeilingFly wrote: »

The difference here is that usually the person is treated an awful lot better and usually questioned under caution rather than a publically named as "being arrested for murder".

How do you know how he was treated? Where does the article say he was "arrested for murder"? Where was the gentleman named?

DEFTLEFTHAND · 04-04-2018 03:52PM

Always thought that Nally, Frog Ward Trial reversal was wrong.

I know Nally was harassed over a long period of time and the law did nothing to help him but jaysus lads he blasted frog, went back inside to load up then went out to finish the frog before dumping him over an iron gate. A wounded Frog was trying to retreat at the time his killer returned.

Is that justifiable homicide? There was time there in between for Nally to regain his senses. He used excessive force

He murdered him in my view. Both the mens rea and actus reus are present.

Accidentally · 04-04-2018 04:08PM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Always thought that Nally, Frog Ward Trial reversal was wrong.

I know Nally was harassed over a long period of time and the law did nothing to help him but jaysus lads he blasted frog, went back inside to load up then went out to finish the frog before dumping him over an iron gate. A wounded Frog was trying to retreat at the time his killer returned.

On the other hand, if you let him live he will be back to get you when he has recovered.

Bummer1234 · 04-04-2018 04:12PM

One thing for sure is....They won't burgle that house again!

doolox · 04-04-2018 04:14PM

It is possible that Nally traded temporary loss of freedom for future security. A desperate situation to be in.

ProudDUB · 04-04-2018 04:30PM

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Always thought that Nally, Frog Ward Trial reversal was wrong.

I know Nally was harassed over a long period of time and the law did nothing to help him but jaysus lads he blasted frog, went back inside to load up then went out to finish the frog before dumping him over an iron gate. A wounded Frog was trying to retreat at the time his killer returned.

Is that justifiable homicide? There was time there in between for Nally to regain his senses. He used excessive force

He murdered him in my view. Both the mens rea and actus reus are present.

Well of course he was trying to retreat after he was shot. Any time I get a bellyfull of shotgun pellets, I tend to scarper in the opposite direction. I don't tend to stick around and play the "please Sir, may I have some more" card. I'm getting the fcuk out a Dodge as soon as what's left of my legs will take me. It's hardly something he should been given a medal for.

And as another poster said, given the harassment that went on before he was shot, can you only imagine what would have then ensued if he lived to tell the tale?

Should that not count for anything?

Good luck and good riddance to him.

seamus · 04-04-2018 04:32PM

doolox wrote: »

It is possible that Nally traded temporary loss of freedom for future security. A desperate situation to be in.

I think that was the core of the reasoning behind his eventual acquittal.

I didn't agree with the verdict, but I certainly understand how they would come to that conclusion; that in Nally's mind the only way to guarantee his safety was to pull that trigger. He believed that if he didn't he was a dead man.

What's interesting is looking at interviews with Nally a decade after the fact and after the dust has settled. In 2014 he gave several interviews about how he "lives in fear" now about revenge attacks and hasn't slept properly in a decade.
Yet, there never were any repercussions.

So it seems pretty likely that Nally suffers from deeply paranoid and irrational thoughts. Which would explain much of his behaviour before the shooting. He should maybe have been sent to the central mental hospital instead of Mountjoy after his original conviction.

Captain Obvious · 04-04-2018 04:47PM

CeilingFly wrote: »

The difference here is that usually the person is treated an awful lot better and usually questioned under caution rather than a publically named as "being arrested for murder".

Gardai will usually then send a file to dpp for direction.

In the UK, cops far too often search for the biggest headline no matter whether the person is wholly inncoent or not. This elderly man was defending himself against two pieces of dirt who threatened him with a screwdriver. He got the nearest thign to him and defended hmslef in his own home.

In Ireland Article 40.5 of the Constitution provides that: “The dwelling of every citizen is inviolable, and shall not be forcibly entered save in accordance with law.”

The Criminal Law (Defence and the Dwelling) Act 2011 affords protection to home owners by allowing them to act to defend their homes against those who enter illegally.

The 2011 Act recognises that even force which causes death can, in certain circumstances, be justified.

As i said, UK cops are too gungho with their statements - in this case "under arrest for murder". Thankfully here, the gardai treat people with more respect in such situations.

You are talking out your ass. Murder is the offence so that what the arrest is for. If the burglar hadn't died the man would have been arrested for a serious assault instead. He will be questioned, as he would here, and evidence will be collected as if it is a murder case. What are you basing your claims on anyway? Red Rock?

While I appreciate that you probably "ripped" this outrage straight from the front page of The Donald subreddit, you could at least have looked into it a bit before posting nonsense.

super_furry · 04-04-2018 04:52PM

Someone's been killed violently, of course he's been arrested so he can be questioned under caution.

If he's sent to jail, that's the time to get the pitchforks out. Until them, calm your knickers.

the_syco · 04-04-2018 05:47PM

CeilingFly wrote: »

Thankfully we are in Ireland where the law is on your side when you defend yourself against scum who burgle you at 1am in the morning. Unfortunately in Britain, the burglars have the law on their side!

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/europe/britain/pensioner-78-arrested-after-fatally-stabbing-burglar-who-broke-into-his-home-36773808.html

His house will be robbed whilst he's in prison. TBH, he's probably safer in police custody, because the other burglar would probably kill him if the pensioner wasn't with the police.

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I know Nally was harassed over a long period of time and the law did nothing to help him but jaysus lads he blasted frog, went back inside to load up then went out to finish the frog before dumping him over an iron gate. A wounded Frog was trying to retreat at the time his killer returned.

Nally was burgled at least once beforehand (chainsaw was robbed from inside his house), and when Ward was confronted at Nallys back door, Nally blew his load at Ward. Fearing for his life, he went to the shed and reloaded. I'd say after this, most farmers would keep a few shells within reach for such incidents, and not in the barn.

jmayo · 04-04-2018 06:09PM

weldoninhio wrote: »

I didn't know cops wrote the headlines for newspapers. Is that only in UK or everywhere??

Well the Garda do for at least a couple of Irish journalists.

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Always thought that Nally, Frog Ward Trial reversal was wrong.

I know Nally was harassed over a long period of time and the law did nothing to help him but jaysus lads he blasted frog, went back inside to load up then went out to finish the frog before dumping him over an iron gate. A wounded Frog was trying to retreat at the time his killer returned.

Is that justifiable homicide? There was time there in between for Nally to regain his senses. He used excessive force

He murdered him in my view. Both the mens rea and actus reus are present.

Well that's like your opinion.
Thankfully it doesn't count for anything and the second jury's was the only one that counted.

Maybe if you walked a few feet in his shoes you might feel a bit different.

Ward had a habit of attacking people with slash hooks and for some unknown reason was always out and about to continue doing so.

Nally did society one almighty favour.

London Cops arrest pensioner for defending himself

Comments