Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

Ash.J.Williams · 03-04-2018 08:01PM

"any sluts get ****ed" text was sent by Craig Gilroy who is now "under review" by ulster Rugby

hill16bhoy · 03-04-2018 08:05PM

Luxxis wrote: »

A radio host said stuff people. That means its cultural.

Did you agree with what that radio host said?

Because there was widespread support for his comments. Do you disagree with that assertion?

Widespread support for such comments implies agreement with such comments. Do you disagree with that assertion?

That does indeed mean there is a culture of believing that a woman can be to blame for her own rape. Do you disagree with that assertion?

That is rape culture. Do you disagree with that assertion?

ShowMeTheCash · 03-04-2018 08:06PM

hill16bhoy wrote: »

There was nothing remotely ironic or facetious in your post, so stop trying to backtrack, all while demonstrating that you haven't the first idea of what the words irony or facetiousness mean.

If you could deal with my points and tell me i) whether what I describe actually happens (I'll give you a clue - we've had all of them on this thread) and ii) whether each example I pointed out symbolises rape culture, that'd be great, thanks.

Another thing that is part of rape culture is the attempted use of sarcasm to trivialise and belittle extremely serious issues. It's a tool that's used over and over and over again by the alt-right to try and drag debates down rabbit holes.

You're not very good at all at using sarcasm, so don't bother trying to do so again.

So now you are telling me what I am doing and how I think, crazy feminism logic 101!
You come across "crazy" and someone who has spent too much time listening to other "crazy" rhetoric and nonsense and doing 0 investigation of your own.
A number of people on this thread had demonstrated a lack of knowledge around the law, around statistics and contributing factors to these types of scenario, I have watched all of them go silent when asked anything intelligent as they appear to not have an answer.. Just emotional noise!

Using terminology like "rape culture" and calling people "alt-right" especially in Ireland which is essentially country of leftists shows you crazy you have become in your own little echo chamber.....

Going to help you out, I understand English, I notice on arguments you attempt to try and tell people what they do not do understand when it comes to the English word.....
Don't do this, it makes you look like you have no argument and are trying to argue over semantics, crazy feminist logic 102!

Tipcorlad · 03-04-2018 08:06PM

RabbleRouser2k wrote: »

That was one point-the other was repeating the '1 in four' lie.

Others were based on his experiences, not research. The 'women want another woman there'-except no they often don't. It wasn't my experience, but I do know one girl who asked her friend to borrow a room so she could have a threeway with two guys. It came to a halt because it was her time of the month (she hadn't checked her calendar-monitor her cycle I mean).

Taken from the article-um, no. A teenaged boy who's raped by a woman, is not the one who committed the rape. A Melrose place actress has been accused of raping a teenaged boy who was ten years her junior.
There are many cases where men are raped by women-and yet the article ignores that.

As does it ignore other things, and grey areas.

Those are just a few issues I had, upon reading it over once or twice-there's far more that would grab me.

It wasnt pretending to be a fact based article, he very clearly said that it was in his experience. Id agree with you that an underage boy can be raped (not sure if that is the legally correct word but for all intents and purposes it is correct) but other than that i think this is a great article. It promotes enthusiastic consent. What kind of man doesnt want that from their sexual partner. It also calls out the unrealistic expectations young men have due to porn.
It quite intelligently points out that very few women will want 2 or 3 penis' in a one night stand situation. Very few. So if you find yourself in a situation where you think you have one of these women in your room then you beter be damn sure you do get consent and get it over and over again (in a sexy fun way). Its the caveat, if it looks too good to be true then it probably is.
What are these 'grey areas'?

hill16bhoy · 03-04-2018 08:07PM

UnknownSpecies wrote: »

Or maybe it's like you saying that some corruption exists in Ireland, therefore we have a culture of corruption. Laughable.

You are speaking about absolute minorities in Ireland.

A minority of the population of Russia are involved in corruption. Does that mean Russia doesn't have a culture of corruption?

You don't believe there was and is a culture of corruption in Irish politics, business and society?

Really?

Have you been living under a rock for your whole existence?

Because that would be the obvious conclusion to draw if you believe such.

tritium · 03-04-2018 08:08PM

hill16bhoy wrote: »

In a post where you brand others as "emotionally charged and ill informed", I rather think the irony of your resorting to the standard alt-right playbook, including you branding feminists as "Nazis", is lost on you."

Ironically, "rapenazis" would be a far more cogent and accurate term for many on this thread who mitigate, seek to victim blame perpetuate tired, mendacious tropes about rape, and in some cases, flat out deny that acts which categorically constitute sexual assault and/or rape are such.

Culture can be a belief system, a thought process, a way of acting, language. Or it can be a refusal to face up to the inherent ignorance in all of the previous four. Rape culture is all of those things.

Rape culture is the belief that if a woman doesn't fight or scream, it can't be rape.

Rape culture is believing that it's just fine to perform a sex act on a person who is asleep.

Rape culture is deliberately and mendaciously twisting the verdict of a trial to make out that a jury has found a complainant's allegations of rape to be lies.

Rape culture is calls to vilify and publicly out a complainant in a rape trial.

Rape culture is believing that a woman desperately asking a man to "at least use a condom" constitutes consent.

Rape culture is believing that a woman entering a man's bedroom equals consent.

Rape culture is using the utterly bogus argument of "personal responsibility" to mitigate the heinous crime of rape. There is no such a thing as the responsibility of a person to not be the victim of a crime, only the responsibility of a person to not commit a crime.

Rape culture is believing that women who wear certain clothes or get drunk are in any way at all responsible if they are raped.

Rape culture is referring to women as animals in language.

Rape culture is referring to sex as something a man does to a woman, and in violent terms.

Rape culture is the denial that there is a problem with any of this.

Ah, so you agree we don’t have a rape culture so

foxyladyxx · 03-04-2018 08:09PM

upandcumming wrote: »

That is good news, and the more people that come forward, the better.

However, I fear that these marches and protests actually discourage people from reporting violent sexual crime.

SoberPaddy's article on paedophilia is also well worth a read. He is a victim of child sex abuse and worked with disgraced sports writer Tom Humphries.

http://soberpaddy.com/dealing-with-the-paedophiles/

Ulysses Gaze · 03-04-2018 08:10PM

hill16bhoy wrote: »

A minority of the population of Russia are involved in corruption. Does that mean Russia doesn't have a culture of corruption?

You don't believe there was and is a culture of corruption in Irish politics, business and society?

Really?

Have you been living under a rock for your whole existence?

Because that would be the obvious conclusion to draw if you believe such.

And lets not even open the can of worms that is An Garda Siochana.....

Mr.H · 03-04-2018 08:10PM

freshpopcorn wrote:

It was just very standard stuff such as My name is Larry Muphy or don't be afraid I'm not Larry Murphy. People went off with the lads that used it. So, it worked.

Where the hell do you live? I can honestly say I have never heard anyone joke about Larry Murphy.

Luxxis · 03-04-2018 08:12PM

hill16bhoy wrote: »

Did you agree with what that radio host said?

Because there was widespread support for his comments. Do you disagree with that assertion?

Widespread support for such comments implies agreement with such comments. Do you disagree with that assertion?

That does indeed mean there is a culture of believing that a woman can be to blame for her own rape. Do you disagree with that assertion?

That is rape culture. Do you disagree with that assertion?

Spousal rape is illegal, no matter what any radio host or anyone who supports his comments says.

There are 1,558,196 men in Ireland aged between 15 and 67.

You pick a handful of examples and declare it cultural.

Nonsense.

Ulysses Gaze · 03-04-2018 08:12PM

Mr.H wrote: »

Where the hell do you live? I can honestly say I have never heard anyone joke about Larry Murphy.

Only time I've encountered anything to do with Larry Murphy, in that context, is people quipping about it online.

Ash.J.Williams · 03-04-2018 08:13PM

Mr.H wrote: »

Where the hell do you live? I can honestly say I have never heard anyone joke about Larry Murphy.

I've heard the absolute opposite as in loads of Larry Murphy jokes

hill16bhoy · 03-04-2018 08:14PM

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

So now you are telling me what I am doing and how I think, crazy feminism logic 101!
You come across "crazy" and someone who has spent too much time listening to other "crazy" rhetoric and nonsense and doing 0 investigation of your own.
A number of people on this thread had demonstrated a lack of knowledge around the law, around statistics and contributing factors to these types of scenario, I have watched all of them go silent when asked anything intelligent as they appear to not have an answer.. Just emotional noise!

Using terminology like "rape culture" and calling people "alt-right" especially in Ireland which is essentially country of leftists shows you crazy you have become in your own little echo chamber.....

Going to help you out, I understand English, I notice on arguments you attempt to try and tell people what they do not do understand when it comes to the English word.....
Don't do this, it makes you look like you have no argument and are trying to argue over semantics, crazy feminist logic 102!

Again, lots of bluster and rabbit holing, no attempt to debate the points I made.

You assert that I'm crazy (really wonderful debating skillz) yet provide zero evidence to back that up.

That's not debate, that's an attempt to shut down debate because you can't deal with the points made, which you still haven't dealt with.

One eyed Jack · 03-04-2018 08:14PM

hill16bhoy wrote: »

Do you disagree with that assertion?

In the last few years, there has been an unfortunate trend towards blaming “rape culture” for the extensive problem of sexual violence on campuses. While it is helpful to point out the systemic barriers to addressing the problem, it is important to not lose sight of a simple fact: Rape is caused not by cultural factors but by the conscious decisions, of a small percentage of the community, to commit a violent crime.

- RAINN submission to the White House Task Force to Protect Students from Sexual Assault.

Do you disagree with that assertion?

tritium · 03-04-2018 08:14PM

hill16bhoy wrote: »

Did you agree with what that radio host said?

Because there was widespread support for his comments. Do you disagree with that assertion?

Widespread support for such comments implies agreement with such comments. Do you disagree with that assertion?

That does indeed mean there is a culture of believing that a woman can be to blame for her own rape. Do you disagree with that assertion?

That is rape culture. Do you disagree with that assertion?

Louise o’neill and una mulally have both made highly misandrist statements

Both are prominent journalists

There has been widespread support for both of them, particularly amongst certain groups. By your standards that implies there is agreement with them

Would you therefore agree we have a culture of misandry?

hill16bhoy · 03-04-2018 08:15PM

Luxxis wrote: »

Spousal rape is illegal, no matter what any radio host or anyone who supports his comments says.

There are 1,558,196 men in Ireland aged between 15 and 67.

You pick a handful of examples and declare it cultural.

Nonsense.

Please address the questions I put to you.

um7y1h83ge06nx · 03-04-2018 08:16PM

I think the phrase "rape culture" really weakens any good arguments that some may make as for many it really does seem ridiculous that rape is part of who we are, our culture.

If it was, a perfect Irish day out would start by going to a good game of hurling and afterwards go to the local to listen to some good trad music and sink a few pints of the black stuff. To top it all off finish off the night by committing a good rape.

If it was part of our culture why isn't someone like Larry Murphy not seen as an Irish legend and someone to look up to like Paul O'Connell or Joe Canning? Why would men like me be absolutely horrified to be accused of rape?

I genuinely do find it hard to believe that it can be so prevalent as to be considered part of our culture.

iamwhoiam · 03-04-2018 08:16PM

Mr.H wrote: »

Where the hell do you live? I can honestly say I have never heard anyone joke about Larry Murphy.

Jesus me neither . In fact I have only ever heard anyone mention him with pure disgust in their voice

FrancieBrady · 03-04-2018 08:16PM

tritium wrote: »

Louise o’neill and una mulally have both made highly misandrist statements

Both are prominent journalists

There has been widespread support for both of them, particularly amongst certain groups. By your standards that implies there is agreement with them

Would you therefore agree we have a culture of misandry?

It's just another buzz phrase like toxic masculinity. I wouldn't pass much remarks

freshpopcorn · 03-04-2018 08:16PM

Mr.H wrote: »

Where the hell do you live? I can honestly say I have never heard anyone joke about Larry Murphy.

It was in night clubs/house parties in Cork a few years ago and most of the women loved it found it hilarious the majority of the time.

UnknownSpecies · 03-04-2018 08:18PM

I just find it so disrespectful to men all over Ireland that we are being told there is a ****ing rape culture amongst us. As if on some level, men all over Ireland are OK and accepting of rape. Absolute nonsense.

The backlash against men in the aftermath of this trial has been disillusioning. Being told that you are basically a rape apologist if you agree with the verdict. Implying that just because the accused were also men, we would be happy to let rapists walk the street just for a perceived 'win' for our gender. Of bloody course we would want them locked up if the evidence stacked against them.

Luxxis · 03-04-2018 08:23PM

hill16bhoy wrote: »

Please address the questions I put to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hill16bhoy View Post
Did you agree with what that radio host said? No

Because there was widespread support for his comments. Do you disagree with that assertion? No

Widespread support for such comments implies agreement with such comments. Do you disagree with that assertion? No

That does indeed mean there is a culture of believing that a woman can be to blame for her own rape. Do you disagree with that assertion? No

That is rape culture. Do you disagree with that assertion? No

hill16bhoy · 03-04-2018 08:29PM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

In the last few years, there has been an unfortunate trend towards blaming “rape culture” for the extensive problem of sexual violence on campuses. While it is helpful to point out the systemic barriers to addressing the problem, it is important to not lose sight of a simple fact: Rape is caused not by cultural factors but by the conscious decisions, of a small percentage of the community, to commit a violent crime.

- RAINN submission to the White House Task Force to Protect Students from Sexual Assault.

Do you disagree with that assertion?

Rape is a crime perpetrated by individual rapists.

Rape culture allows individual rapists to believe they can get away with rape and sexual assault and encourages men to believe that such things are not that big a deal. It normalises and trivialises rape, sexual assault and dehumanising, misogynist behaviour and views.

If, for instance, a man believes that if a woman doesn't scream or fight it can't be rape, he is more likely to perpetrate a rape.

If a man believes that a woman cannot withdraw consent during consensual sex, he is more likely to perpetrate a rape.

If a man believes that a woman entering a bedroom means automatic consent, he is more likely to perpetrate a rape.

Rape culture needs to be obliterated.

ShowMeTheCash · 03-04-2018 08:33PM

hill16bhoy wrote: »

Again, lots of bluster and rabbit holing, no attempt to debate the points I made.

You assert that I'm crazy (really wonderful debating skillz) yet provide zero evidence to back that up.

That's not debate, that's an attempt to shut down debate because you can't deal with the points made, which you still haven't dealt with.

Culture does not mean what you are suggesting it does.
Culture refers to social norms and acceptable behavior in society. It refers to laws and traditions among many others. The law for example has very clear rules against rape and I do not know of any traditions where rape is involved.
But you want to use terminology like "rape culture".... Maybe we live in a "murder culture" or a "racist culture", I made the comparison to SJW or "Feminist culture" to demonstrate how nonsensical "rape culture" is but according to you I am back tracking.

"Rape culture" is a buzz word that literally means nothing....

There is nothing here to debate, if you said anything mindly inelltigent

hill16bhoy · 03-04-2018 08:34PM

tritium wrote: »

Ah, so you agree we don’t have a rape culture so

So, you've read through the examples of rape culture I gave and decided that they are not problematic.

You've demonstrated right here that you have a serious problem as regards knowing what consent is.

ShowMeTheCash · 03-04-2018 08:36PM

hill16bhoy wrote: »

Rape is a crime perpetrated by individual rapists.

Rape culture allows individual rapists to believe they can get away with rape and sexual assault and encourages men to believe that such things are not that big a deal. It normalises and trivialises rape, sexual assault and dehumanising, misogynist behaviour and views.

If, for instance, a man believes that if a woman doesn't scream or fight it can't be rape, he is more likely to perpetrate a rape.

If a man believes that a woman cannot withdraw consent during consensual sex, he is more likely to perpetrate a rape.

If a man believes that a woman entering a bedroom means automatic consent, he is more likely to perpetrate a rape.

Rape culture needs to be obliterated.

This is not a "culture" you are describing rape as if it is part of Irish culture... It is not.

To suggest it is a culture would suggest every man in Ireland finds it acceptable..... They don't!

Ash.J.Williams · 03-04-2018 08:39PM

hill16bhoy wrote: »

Rape is a crime perpetrated by individual rapists.

Rape culture allows individual rapists to believe they can get away with rape and sexual assault and encourages men to believe that such things are not that big a deal. It normalises and trivialises rape, sexual assault and dehumanising, misogynist behaviour and views.

If, for instance, a man believes that if a woman doesn't scream or fight it can't be rape, he is more likely to perpetrate a rape.

If a man believes that a woman cannot withdraw consent during consensual sex, he is more likely to perpetrate a rape.

If a man believes that a woman entering a bedroom means automatic consent, he is more likely to perpetrate a rape.

Rape culture needs to be obliterated.

That's not rape culture

Silentcorner · 03-04-2018 08:46PM

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

This is not a "culture" you are describing rape as if it is part of Irish culture... It is not.

To suggest it is a culture would suggest every man in Ireland finds it acceptable..... They don't!

The confusion is over the use of the word culture.

A word which in every way causes conflict.

For example, the poster referred to the culture of following League of Ireland matches earlier, and he is right, that is a part of Irish culture, albeit a tiny part.

Now, there can be isolated incidents of crowd trouble in League of Ireland, a culture of football hooliganism, it does not suggest that every League of Ireland fan engages in football hooliganism, although most League of Ireland fans would be aware of it.

League of Ireland Football games are very heavily policed. Problem solved, no one takes offence.

But when you talk about rape, it seems to provoke something in people that infuriates, when it is not and should not be something to take offense to, it is simply trying to achieve parity in both genders sexual experiences.

I probably would have taken offense to it a few months ago if I'm honest.

In this thread we have seen the vast diversity of people's perception of consent, in fact one lunatic called consent a "buzz word"!!!!

hill16bhoy · 03-04-2018 08:46PM

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

Culture does not mean what you are suggesting it does.
Culture refers to social norms and acceptable behavior in society. It refers to laws and traditions among many others. The law for example has very clear rules against rape and I do not know of any traditions where rape is involved.
But you want to use terminology like "rape culture".... Maybe we live in a "murder culture" or a "racist culture", I made the comparison to SJW or "Feminist culture" to demonstrate how nonsensical "rape culture" is but according to you I am back tracking.

"Rape culture" is a buzz word that literally means nothing....

There is nothing here to debate, if you said anything mindly inelltigent

You're rabbit holing again.

There is such a thing as a racist culture.

There are cultures of criminality.

Your mistake is that you cannot acknowledge that there is no such a thing as a negative, harmful, culture.

What has been seen on this thread, in fact we're still seeing it right now, is belief that the things that constitute the examples of rape culture that I gave are acceptable.

So even by your own stated definition of what a culture is, rape culture is very real.

Appledreams15 · 03-04-2018 08:48PM

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

Culture does not mean what you are suggesting it does.
Culture refers to social norms and acceptable behavior in society. It refers to laws and traditions among many others. The law for example has very clear rules against rape and I do not know of any traditions where rape is involved.
But you want to use terminology like "rape culture".... Maybe we live in a "murder culture" or a "racist culture", I made the comparison to SJW or "Feminist culture" to demonstrate how nonsensical "rape culture" is but according to you I am back tracking.

"Rape culture" is a buzz word that literally means nothing....

There is nothing here to debate, if you said anything mindly inelltigent

So what do you think of Ireland having an exremely low rape conviction rape.
And there not being a review of the process for as long back as I can remember

Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

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