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Belfast rape trial - all 4 found not guilty Mod Note post one

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Comments

  • #5132
    Owryan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭Owryan


    _Dara_ wrote: »
    What will locking up innocent people do to solve the above?

    It would make some posters very happy apparently.


  • #5133
    tayto lover
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54,412 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Appledreams15 wrote: »
    How are innocent people ending up in Jail when Ireland has for a long time had one of the lowest conviction rates in Europe?
    I saw a post there,: most rapists in Ireland walk free, abortion aftee rape is illegal, if a woman gets an illegal abortion in Ireland she can face jail.

    Stone age Ireland.

    Im in so many whatsapp groups with people from other countries. Everyone is on the women of Ireland's side. If you look at it logically you can see women are being treated like they are in the stone age in Ireland[/QUOTE]

    That's just BS.
    Women are treated the same.
    This case was about evidence and there was not enough to convict. Please don't try to make it otherwise.


  • #5134
    BrianBoru00
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,035 ✭✭✭BrianBoru00


    Hill16Bhoy must have been on an awfuly bender last night :rolleyes::rolleyes:

    IrishRebe continues to quote laws from various duristictions without clarification - Ill say this if any potential employer was to identify you there wouldn't be a hope in hell of them giving you work as a legal translator.

    Appledreams15 continues to pluck "pieces of evidence" and present them as reasons to convict


  • #5135
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    Appledreams15 wrote: »
    How are innocent people ending up in Jail when Ireland has for a long time had one of the lowest conviction rates in Europe?
    I saw a post there,: most rapists in Ireland walk free, abortion aftee rape is illegal, if a woman gets an illegal abortion in Ireland she can face jail.

    Stone age Ireland.

    Im in so many whatsapp groups with people from other countries. Everyone is on the women of Ireland's side. If you look at it logically you can see women are being treated like they are in the stone age in Ireland

    We have a tried and trusted legal system that assumes the defendant is innocent in all criminal prosecutions.
    Theres scope for enhancing aspects to better serve/assist victims if sexual assaults , but not at the risk of lowering the burden of proof required. Id live to hear your thoughts...


  • #5136
    goz83
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,035 ✭✭✭goz83


    Appledreams15 wrote: »
    Were you crying afterwards?
    Were you described by someone as 'hysterical'.?
    Did they send a friend after you to calm you down, who texted you a link to a 'calming song'? (Creepy as f"$k fixer guy)

    I have a high pain threshhold, but I was in the doctors office one time with a torn banjo string....so yeah, there was blood. That happened 3 times. I didn’t want to go into details, but here we are.
    irishrebe wrote: »
    Of course. Do you also send your wife home in a taxi, crying and sobbing?

    We live together. Was there some point to your post? My wife is not some stranger I happened to have a threesome with. There are a number of reasons a girl might go home in a taxi crying. I don’t think she was hysterical...but maybe I missed that statement. In my opinion, she felt rejected and used and had a shoulder to cry on. There are too many inconsistincies in what she said and what she did. One example is the text message history with the her friend and a co-accused. Takking about being raped with her friend and a few minutes later...LOLing with the co-accused. Sounds odd to me.


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  • #5137
    Appledreams15
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 379 ✭✭Appledreams15


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Appledreams15 wrote: »
    How are innocent people ending up in Jail when Ireland has for a long time had one of the lowest conviction rates in Europe?
    I saw a post there,: most rapists in Ireland walk free, abortion aftee rape is illegal, if a woman gets an illegal abortion in Ireland she can face jail.

    Stone age Ireland.

    Im in so many whatsapp groups with people from other countries. Everyone is on the women of Ireland's side. If you look at it logically you can see women are being treated like they are in the stone age in Ireland[/QUOTE]

    That's just BS.
    Women are treated the same.
    This case was about evidence and there was not enough to convict. Please don't try to make it otherwise.

    You do know we are one of only few countries that don't allow abortion after rape?
    You do know that we have one of the lowest rape conviction rapes as a country?

    You dont think we are failing women? Laughable


  • #5138
    tretorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It’s important to remember that the victim didn’t bring the prosecution. The police did.
    There was evidence given of a cut the victim had inside received her vagina, hence the bleeding.
    As the investigation didn’t take place for a couple of days, evidence from the scene no longer existed. This makes horrifying reading.
    https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/rugby-union/paddy-jackson-jury-acquittal-olding-12270685

    Oldings semen was found, he said the woman gave him a consensual blowjob and the jury believed him.

    There was no evidence whatsoever that Jackson had sex with the woman, he is supposed to have had vaginal sex with her three times, he denies it and the evidence that he told the truth is more compelling.

    To state that maybe there was evidence but it no longer exists is nonsense.

    Paddy Jackson is supposed to have shoved his whole hand inside her, there would definitely be evidence of this in a forensic examination, there was none. These highly trained staff in sexual assault units know exactly what evidence to note and there was none to note in this case, well apart from a 1 CM tear, she wasnt battered, bleeding, bruised, traumatised and the jury who sat through nine weeks knew this.

    I think I will take the word of the jury over silentcorners hysterical posts, thats wimmin for ye.


  • #5139
    Appledreams15
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 379 ✭✭Appledreams15


    BrianBoru00 wrote: »
    Hill16Bhoy must have been on an awfuly bender last night :rolleyes::rolleyes:

    IrishRebe continues to quote laws from various duristictions without clarification - Ill say this if any potential employer was to identify you there wouldn't be a hope in hell of them giving you work as a legal translator.

    Appledreams15 continues to pluck "pieces of evidence" and present them as reasons to convict

    And would you care to contribute intelligently?


  • #5140
    Owryan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭Owryan


    Why are people prepared to accept that Dara said she saw paddy having penetrative sex but not prepared to accept that she said she saw a threesome?

    You cannot cherry pick which pieces of evidence suit your narrative and which don't.

    As for bleeding and what could have caused it, there is a reason my then gf made me cut my nails.


  • #5141
    irishrebe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 612 ✭✭✭irishrebe


    Roger Hassenforder wrote: »
    Appledreams15 wrote: »
    You left out the calming music he sent her. Why?
    And the text the next day. "Are you feeling better now?"

    I didnt highlight "lol"
    Maybe i should...
    What is the relevance of that?


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  • #5142
    irishrebe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 612 ✭✭✭irishrebe


    Owryan wrote: »
    Why are people prepared to accept that Dara said she saw  paddy having penetrative sex but not prepared to accept that she said she saw a threesome?

    You cannot cherry pick which pieces of evidence suit your narrative and which don't.

    As for bleeding and what could have caused it, there is a reason my then gf made me cut my nails.
    Why are people prepared to acknowledge that Dara Florence could have made a mistake when she thought she saw one of the defendants having sex with the woman, but not that she could have made a mistake about whether it was consensual?

    You cannot cherry pick which pieces of evidence suit your narrative and which don't.


  • #5143
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,927 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Silentcorner wrote: »
    https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonic_immobility

    I think it is deeply ironic that you are accusing me on not thinking this through...

    Where is the evidence of restraint and threat?

    There isn't any. She was in a bedroom with a stranger kissing him, left and then came back.

    That is what we know.


  • #5144
    Mrsmum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    So the body freezes and allows it to happen some more?

    Ok. :rolleyes:

    I am a bit shocked at this reply. If you were walking through a deserted street one night and a thug bigger and stronger than you accosted you & pinned you up against a wall & you were too scared to do anything, too terrified to move or you decided silence was the wisest thing and he robbed you and gave you a few digs - did you give him consent to do so by your inaction ? I am shocked to think there is still a belief out there that is a rape victim isn't fighting for her or his life, they aren't being raped.


  • #5145
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    tretorn wrote: »
    Deleted User wrote: »
    It’s important to remember that the victim didn’t bring the prosecution. The police did.
    There was evidence given of a cut the victim had inside received her vagina, hence the bleeding.
    As the investigation didn’t take place for a couple of days, evidence from the scene no longer existed. This makes horrifying reading.
    https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/rugby-union/paddy-jackson-jury-acquittal-olding-12270685

    Oldings semen was found, he said the woman gave him a consensual blowjob and the jury believed him.

    There was no evidence whatsoever that Jackson had sex with the woman, he is supposed to have had vaginal sex with her three times, he denies it and the evidence that he told the truth is more compelling.

    To state that maybe there was evidence but it no longer exists is nonsense.

    Paddy Jackson is supposed to have shoved his whole hand inside her, there would definitely be evidence of this in a forensic examination, there was none. These highly trained staff in sexual assault units know exactly what evidence to note and there was none to note in this case, well apart from a 1 CM tear, she wasnt battered, bleeding, bruised, traumatised and the jury who sat through nine weeks knew this.

    I think I will take the word of the jury over silentcorners hysterical posts, thats wimmin for ye.

    Hang on a minute.

    There's no indication the the jury believed one story over another. As I have said already, they can believe the complainants case but they can't convict on that belief alone.

    People need to stop saying the jury believed the story of one side over the other, or that the jury thought she lied, or whatever.

    There's absolutely no evidence or suggestion whatsoever that backs up that claim. You can believe what you want, but don't use the verdict or what you think the jury thought as a presentation of fact.


  • #5146
    The Talking Bread
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,037 ✭✭✭✭The Talking Bread


    irishrebe wrote: »
    'Free'? I know rape victims who can barely leave the house, have no social life, and whose lives are basically over. If that's being 'free', then yeah. There are no winners.

    of course you do.

    TBH I can't take anything you say seriously after that wishy washy story earlier.

    I am not saying it doesn't happen, of course it does, but you seem to have had significantly more exposure to rape, sexual assault, paedophilic verbal abuse, etc etc than your average Joe which is added to everytime you want to counter a point.

    It is easy to say all this behind a computer and there is an extreme propaganda machine out there at the moment ever more generalising men as sexual deviants, whether in subtle form or downright straight to the point (see some of the banners at that march, a massive portion of tweets and, indeed, comments on here such as "all my foreign friends see Irish men as misogynist drunkards".

    A large segment of feminists have in my opinion taken advantage of the verdict (indeed twisting what the verdict even means) to pursue this agenda and it is an extremely dangerous, divisive route to go down. Social media is powerful and we will have new generations coming in seeing these anti-men trends and it isn't going to be pretty for society. Look at that dose, Louise O'Neill using it to promote her book ffs.

    You have refused to account for the fact that your messages have had a similar significant generalisation tone to them, or maybe you have wrapped yourself unintentionally in this manner of thinking, and I expect an ultra defensive retort to this. (like everyone of your posts here - you seem incapable of debate w/o going on the defence which isn't helping people who are attempting to take your posts seriously)


  • #5147
    Appledreams15
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 379 ✭✭Appledreams15


    Owryan wrote: »
    Why are people prepared to accept that Dara said she saw paddy having penetrative sex but not prepared to accept that she said she saw a threesome?

    You cannot cherry pick which pieces of evidence suit your narrative and which don't.

    As for bleeding and what could have caused it, there is a reason my then gf made me cut my nails.

    What difference does her saying she saw a threesome make?
    Stuart, the complainant and Paddy all agreed they had a threesome.
    The point in the next bit is that Dara contradicts what paddy said happened.
    Paddy said he did not have vaginal sex with the girl.
    Dara said she saw him having vaginal sex with her.


  • #5148
    meeeeh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    I think this thread is perfect example why the abuse in church institutions could go on so long. There are an awful lot people who would rather disregard abuse potential victims than examine if there any attitudes in society that could cause harm to others.

    Btw whoever thinks that It's not possible for victim to freeze during the attack/rape has the iq comparable to their shoe size.


  • #5149
    _Whimsical_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,992 ✭✭✭_Whimsical_


    professore wrote: »
    No mention of aggressive male moaning. You made that up.


    Asked by police in her second statement of this had been sexual moaning she said no. It was a male aggressive moan she said.
    From the independent on Friday print edition. https://m.imgur.com/a/Ijr0u

    The same thing I linked you to that you did not read.
    That's twice you have accused me of making something up when in fact you just had not taken the time to find the information, even when it was directly linked to you and circled in red.
    If that's the standard of effort you're willing to put into forming an opinion then I think we can discount your contributions here.


  • #5150
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    irishrebe wrote: »
    What is the relevance of that?

    Somene raised the "calming music" as being evidence of something sinister (i.e. a rape) having happened. I just posted the relevant whatsapp conversation.
    It seems youve no issue with the "calming music" as evidence of something sinister, but seem to ignore her language...


  • #5151
    Owryan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭Owryan


    irishrebe wrote: »
    Why are people prepared to acknowledge that Dara Florence could have made a mistake when she thought she saw one of the defendants having sex with the woman, but not that she could have made a mistake about whether it was consensual?

    You cannot cherry pick which pieces of evidence suit your narrative and which don't.

    You do realise that was a statement aimed at both sides of the argument.


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  • #5152
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    Appledreams15 wrote: »
    Dara said she saw him having vaginal sex with her.

    She said she couldnt see his penis.


  • #5153
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,536 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    tretorn wrote: »
    We have had a nine week trial silentcorner so stop making up "evidence"

    The victim could have been bleeding if she was menstruating, was it ever established whether she had her period, Jackson testified that he thought the blood on his fingers was period blood.

    The forensic expert for the prosecution didnt say there was obvious bruising and he couldnt tell whether the sex that had taken place was non consensual or not, this being the case in spite of the fact that jackson is supposed to have ripped her clothes off raped her twice and then put his fist inside her. Its not actually possible to state for certain that Jackson had penile sex at all because there wasnt a single drop of semen anywhere in the room. Thats very odd.

    The men said she wasnt traumatised and Dara F saw a consensual threesome. She was crying in the taxi but that could be becasue she was disappointed with the night, there is no evidence that she couldnt talk and no evidence that she was traumatised.

    After this case I am beginning to understand why conviction rates are low. Silentcorner is fabricating nonsense, utter total nonsense about this case and yet she thinks these men werent convicted because there is something wrong with a system of justice.

    They werent convicted because the victim told so many different stories and experienced police officers should have known the accounts didnt stack up. They had an independent witness who corroborated the mens accounts and that should have been the end of the matter. It took twenty months and a jury of eight men and three women to see what the police saw and the CPS saw and the Jury in possibly the shortest ever deliberation time in a rape case came back with a not guilty verdict.

    End of the matter.

    I have clearly angered you and others it seems....it was not my intention...

    I have not once, fabricated anything...


  • #5154
    irishrebe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 612 ✭✭✭irishrebe


    Mrsmum wrote: »
    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    So the body freezes and allows it to happen some more?

    Ok. :rolleyes:

    I am a bit shocked at this reply. If you were walking through a deserted street one night and a thug bigger and stronger than you accosted you & pinned you up against a wall & you were too scared to do anything, too terrified to move or you decided silence was the wisest thing and he robbed you and gave you a few digs - did you give him consent to do so by your inaction ? I am shocked to think there is still a belief out there that is a rape victim isn't fighting for her or his life, they aren't being raped.
    I think you'll find a certain subset of people simply can't identify with a victim from a different demographic. I guess it's easy to mock and roll your eyes and laugh when the chances of you personally being raped are small.


  • #5155
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,927 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Mrsmum wrote: »
    I am a bit shocked at this reply. If you were walking through a deserted street one night and a thug bigger and stronger than you accosted you & pinned you up against a wall & you were too scared to do anything, too terrified to move or you decided silence was the wisest thing and he robbed you and gave you a few digs - did you give him consent to do so by your inaction ? I am shocked to think there is still a belief out there that is a rape victim isn't fighting for her or his life, they aren't being raped.

    There is a physical threat present there.
    There is no evidence that she was physically threatened in the bedroom at any point. She left it to go downstairs and returned.


  • #5156
    Mrsmum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Can you link to any evidence that shows this happens without a threat to physical safety and only by a penis penetrating someone?

    This is even more shocking. So you would be ok then with another man saying now Francie you are in no danger whatsoever and I'll be as gentle as you like but I am going to penetrate you whether you like it or not ???


  • #5157
    irishrebe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 612 ✭✭✭irishrebe


    Roger Hassenforder wrote: »
    irishrebe wrote: »
    What is the relevance of that?

    Somene raised the "calming music" as being evidence of something sinister (i.e. a rape) having happened. I just posted the relevant whatsapp conversation.
    It seems youve no issue with the "calming music" as evidence of something sinister, but seem to ignore her language...
    I don't see how any of that conversation proves anything at all. But several posters have brought up the 'lol'. Why?


  • #5158
    irishrebe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 612 ✭✭✭irishrebe


    meeeeh wrote: »
    I think this thread is perfect example why the abuse in church institutions could go on so long. There are an awful lot people who would rather disregard abuse potential victims than examine if there any attitudes in society that could cause harm to others.

    Btw whoever thinks that It's not possible for victim to freeze during the attack/rape has the iq comparable to their shoe size.
    You'd think we'd have learned from that, wouldn't you? But no. Not even a bit.


  • #5159
    goz83
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,035 ✭✭✭goz83


    Appledreams15 wrote: »
    How are innocent people ending up in Jail when Ireland has for a long time had one of the lowest conviction rates in Europe?
    I saw a post there,: most rapists in Ireland walk free, abortion aftee rape is illegal, if a woman gets an illegal abortion in Ireland she can face jail.

    Stone age Ireland.

    Im in so many whatsapp groups with people from other countries. Everyone is on the women of Ireland's side. If you look at it logically you can see women are being treated like they are in the stone age in Ireland

    If you think that there are no innocent people in prison, you are deluded. The number is small I am sure, but there are still innocent people in prison.

    I know of not a single woman from Ireland who has faced charges for abortion in recent history. They either break the law going to the UK, or by ordering pills online. That’s a whole other issue though.

    These whatsapp groups are not the jury, so their solidarity and candle lighting in reality means feck all.

    If you look at things logically, you would see that men are being treated like criminals. These days, there is so much womens rights plastered all over the place, you literally cannot get by a single day without hearing about it. I am for equal rights.....that includes mens rights too by the way, in case you didn’t know.

    The men were found not guilty. They have a right to get on with their lives. Do you think it is right that they are being bullied online after they were judged in a court if law? Or maybe you will just harp on about the woman again....who I shoukd point out has had her rights breached too....and people are up in arms about that of course.


  • #5160
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,927 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    meeeeh wrote: »
    I think this thread is perfect example why the abuse in church institutions could go on so long. There are an awful lot people who would rather disregard abuse potential victims than examine if there any attitudes in society that could cause harm to others.

    Btw whoever thinks that It's not possible for victim to freeze during the attack/rape has the iq comparable to their shoe size.

    It is possible for someone to 'freeze'.

    What some cannot accept here is that in THIS CASE the jury did not find that it was plausible. Why? Because there was NO EVIDENCE of it. :rolleyes:


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  • #5161
    The Talking Bread
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,037 ✭✭✭✭The Talking Bread


    irishrebe wrote: »
    You'd think we'd have learned from that, wouldn't you? But no. Not even a bit.

    Oh, give over?

    Now you are taking the p*ss. Are you seriously saying our society hasn't progressed from that dark era??

    This is exactly what I mean by propaganda.


This discussion has been closed.
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