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Should those who make false rape allegations against others be punished.

  • 28-03-2018 09:32PM
    #1
    Mutant z
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭


    Its now got to a stage where every man is considered to be a rapist even if found to be not guilty in a court of law, by radical feminists which is a toxic man hating ideology.

    It doesnt seem to matter whether someones innocent of rape or not they are now found to be guilty by online mobs without having the sufficient evidence to prove it to be the case so they are quite happy to see someones career and life destroyed on baseless allegations without the facts to back it up.

    I have nothing but sympathy for rape victims and they should get all the help they can get and those rapists can burn as far as im concerned but i believe those who lie and make up false allegations against others should also be punished with a prison sentance or a large fine to make them think twice before they do something as damaging to someone as falsely accuse them of a crime as henious as rape. Some sort of serious punishments should be enforced on those who make up lies which are extremely damaging to the welfare of others who may actually be innocent.


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Comments

  • #2
    Yer Da sells Avon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,736 ✭✭✭Yer Da sells Avon


    If someone is proven, beyond all reasonable doubt, to have deliberately made a false rape allegation, then yes, they should obviously be punished.


  • #3
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,040 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Why? Has someone done this recently?


  • #4
    Rubberchikken
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,303 ✭✭✭Rubberchikken


    Yes. If proven to be guilty then definitely.
    A persons life can lie in ruins for a lot less.


  • #5
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    Hapax Legomenon wrote: »
    If someone is proven, beyond all reasonable doubt, to have deliberately made a false rape allegation, then yes, they should obviously be punished.

    Agreed, but obviously it would require a second court case, as an acquittal in a rape case does not in itself prove the allegation was false.


  • #6
    GetWithIt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,081 ✭✭✭GetWithIt


    I don’t think anyone has ever considered this scenario before.


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  • #7
    Mint Sauce
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,293 ✭✭✭✭Mint Sauce


    If they are found to have made a false rape claim, and convicted of it, then they should face the same sentence, that a convicted rapist would have got.

    However, being found not guilty of rape, does not mean the victim made it up. Only that there was not enough evidence to convict, or versions of events were not enough to convict.


  • #8
    dieselbug
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,104 ✭✭✭dieselbug


    A person who alleges they were raped is not necessarily lying, they may believe they were raped but a court may decide otherwise ie not legally raped.
    It doesn't mean it's a made up false allegation or deliberate lie.

    However a deliberate false allegation with the intention of damaging someone should certainly be heavily punished.


  • #9
    Mutant z
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭Mutant z


    When you look at the case in Belfast with those rugby players who could have their whole careers destroyed because of rape allegations which they have now been cleared of but they will still have that hanging over them for the rest of their lives even when you look at Twitter and the mobs who were accusing them of all sorts it shows how much damage these kind of lies can do to someone.


  • #10
    punisher5112
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,519 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    If it's found to be without a doubt false then of course yes.

    The case with the rugby players is a sad one as there are no winners and to be honest all of them now will be known as those guys.

    If they done it it's a sad day for the woman.
    If they didn't then shame on her.

    It's extremely difficult to tell and sometimes it works out well for the wrong side.

    Hopefully they can all move on with their lives.


  • #11
    Mint Sauce
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,293 ✭✭✭✭Mint Sauce


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    If it's found to be without a doubt false then of course yes.

    The case with the rugby players is a sad one as there are no winners and to be honest all of them now will be known as those guys.

    If they done it it's a sad day for the woman.
    If they didn't then shame on her.

    It's extremely difficult to tell and sometimes it works out well for the wrong side.

    Hopefully they can all move on with their lives.

    Why shame on her, just because they were found not guilty, does not mean she made it up. Something certiainly happened in Paddy Jacksons bedroom, but only the ones present in the room know what that was. Women should still not fear going to the Guards here, or the Police anywhere else, if they feel they have been a victim.


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  • #12
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,130 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Obviously if someone maliciously makes up a rape allegation to hurt someone then they should be punished. The fact is though that false allegations of rape are no higher than false allegations of other crimes. There are many times more unreported rapes than false allegations. It's just not as prevalent as some would have you believe.

    Also, the automatic assumption that if an accused is found not guilty then the accuser must be lying is also wrong.


  • #13
    Sidebaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 178 ✭✭Sidebaro


    Mutant z wrote:
    When you look at the case in Belfast with those rugby players who could have their whole careers destroyed because of rape allegations which they have now been cleared of but they will still have that hanging over them for the rest of their lives even when you look at Twitter and the mobs who were accusing them of all sorts it shows how much damage these kind of lies can do to someone.

    She wasn't found guilty of lying so whatever damage you think actual lies show is irrelevant in this instance as this wasn't the case in that example.


  • #14
    wakka12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    Mutant z wrote: »
    When you look at the case in Belfast with those rugby players who could have their whole careers destroyed because of rape allegations which they have now been cleared of but they will still have that hanging over them for the rest of their lives even when you look at Twitter and the mobs who were accusing them of all sorts it shows how much damage these kind of lies can do to someone.

    A very important distinction to recognise here is that they were proven not guilty, not 'innocent',as there was not sufficient evidence to prove they did it, it was NOT proven that she her allegations were lies at all.


  • #15
    Arghus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,403 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    In real terms all that would accomplish is next to nobody taking a case of sexual assault as far as the courts.


  • #16
    Mutant z
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭Mutant z


    wakka12 wrote: »
    A very important distinction to recognise here is that they were proven not guilty, not 'innocent',as there was not sufficient evidence to prove they did it, it was NOT proven that she her allegations were lies at all.

    But still found not guilty regardless which usually means you are cleared of the crime you have been accused there was just too many inconsistencies in that case to take it at face value regardless the point im making those who tell blatant lies to falsely accuse others should definitely be punished which is the point of this.


  • #17
    AllForIt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    Nathaniel Microscopic Muslin wrote: »
    Agreed, but obviously it would require a second court case, as an acquittal in a rape case does not in itself prove the allegation was false.

    I think it would be useful to get to the bottom of what is really going on.

    I was listening to a piece on LBC a couple of months back where men, who were accused of rape and subsequently it was proven that the accuser was lying, recounted their stories. There lives were totally ruined and never recovered to the way it was despite it being proven to a certainty that they were completely innocent. It was quite horrific to listen to what they went though.


  • #18
    FrKurtFahrt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 899 ✭✭✭FrKurtFahrt


    I think this is dangerous territory as the threat of being branded a malicious liar (and the subsequent possibility of prison or whatever) might deter some women from reporting a rape.

    I'm sure false allegations have been made previously, and people wrongly punished, but all I'm saying is that it would be a fierce dilemma for anyone who had been raped.

    Plus, the complainant in the Belfast case did not press any charges, it was the Crown Prosecution. Should that office be punished also?


  • #19
    AllForIt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭AllForIt


    wakka12 wrote: »
    A very important distinction to recognise here is that they were proven not guilty, not 'innocent',as there was not sufficient evidence to prove they did it, it was NOT proven that she her allegations were lies at all.

    A very important point also is that the accuser may not be lying but that does not mean to a certainty that the accused are guilty either.


  • #20
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,094 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    How about not naming people when they have merely been charged with a crime? Name them by all means if they've been found guilty and the appeals process is complete, but in the meantime we do not have a "right to know" the name of a person who is only charged with an offence.

    In a country where so many people think "there's no smoke without fire", a mere allegation against a publicly named individual carries guilt in the eyes of many. Innocent until proven guilty should mean something real. The courts and legislators should be telling the media where to get off with their claims that they have a right to publicise the names of innocent people.

    These guys may have been cleared, but as they have been publicly identified there will always be a doubt attached to their names.

    And I absolutely 100% agree with people like this being publicly named.


  • #21
    Sidebaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 178 ✭✭Sidebaro


    Mutant z wrote:
    But still found not guilty regardless which usually means you are cleared of the crime you have been accused there was just too many inconsistencies in that case to take it at face value regardless the point im making those who tell blatant lies to falsely accuse others should definitely be punished which is the point of this.


    Anyone found guilty of telling blatant lies should be punished. This is not the case here. Not guilty implies innocence but in this case it was that they couldn't prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt. I'm not saying they did it or they didn't do it, I'm just saying that they can't technically say that they are innocent or that she was lying because that hasn't been proven.


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  • #22
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,325 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    FrKurtFahrt wrote: »
    Plus, the complainant in the Belfast case did not press any charges, it was the Crown Prosecution.  Should that office be punished also?

    Obviously the Queen should be met in the car park of Buckingham palace, cleverly locked into the boot of an Opel Corsa. In that boot, she can smear the walls with shit, and starve to death


  • #23
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,325 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    ---Double post somehow


    Fix the stupid site yiz useless hoors


  • #24
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,691 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    There was an interesting (well, awful) case in my hometown where a girl lied about a guy raping her.

    Basically she lied that this guy raped her and her boyfriend went out and murdered the guy that was falsely accused of rape. Don't know what happened in the end with her but just goes how important it is not to lie about these things. Info about the case here: https://www.independent.ie/regionals/kerryman/news/teen-girl-i-lied-that-stephen-lyne-raped-me-27417309.html


  • #25
    stimpson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,711 ✭✭✭stimpson


    wakka12 wrote: »
    A very important distinction to recognise here is that they were proven not guilty, not 'innocent',as there was not sufficient evidence to prove they did it,

    I’ve read this a million times today and it’s getting on my tits. There is an important legal principal called “presumption of innocence”. It’s up to the prosecution to prove guilt which they have not been able to do, therefore the presumption of innocence still stands. Courts don’t find people innocent - that’s not how it works.


  • #26
    somefeen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,656 ✭✭✭somefeen


    No because even though they have been found not guilty there is a chance that more evidence could come to light later on.

    It would be an unnecessary deterrent against people reporting rape.

    A more sensible option would be to protect the identities of all parties including the accused until a guilty verdict.

    Surely false accusations would come under libel laws anyway?


  • #27
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    AllForIt wrote: »
    I think it would be useful to get to the bottom of what is really going on.

    I was listening to a piece on LBC a couple of months back where men, who were accused of rape and subsequently it was proven that the accuser was lying, recounted their stories. There lives were totally ruined and never recovered to the way it was despite it being proven to a certainty that they were completely innocent. It was quite horrific to listen to what they went though.

    Not sure why you quoted me, but I agree with you. However, it doesn't negate the need for a second court case with the same burden of proof required.


  • #28
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,084 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Mutant z wrote: »
    When you look at the case in Belfast with those rugby players who could have their whole careers destroyed because of rape allegations which they have now been cleared of

    Even though their behaviour didn't get them convicted of rate, it has certainly brought the sport into disrepute.

    That disrepute is why their careers [should be] destroyed. But only time will tell if they were actually destroyed, or enhanced.


  • #29
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,439 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Mutant z wrote: »
    Its now got to a stage where every man is considered to be a rapist even if found to be not guilty in a court of law, by radical feminists which is a toxic man hating ideology.


    It hasn't gotten to that stage at all, it was always like this. People believed who they wanted to believe, and what they wanted to believe, and just as there will always be people who believe the men were innocent, so too will there be people who believe the woman made a false accusation against them. There will also be people who believe the opposite in both cases, less based upon evidence and more based upon their own experiences and prejudices.

    It's nothing to do with "toxic feminism" or any of the rest of that nonsense, but you can choose to keep believing that if you want. See how it works?


  • #30
    Atoms for Peace
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,887 ✭✭✭Atoms for Peace


    Reading between the lines, considering the current news headlines, the jist of this thread is quite nasty.


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  • #31
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,391 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    Even though their behaviour didn't get them convicted of rate, it has certainly brought the sport into disrepute.

    That disrepute is why their careers [should be] destroyed. But only time will tell if they were actually destroyed, or enhanced.

    How could their careers be enhanced?


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