Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Can we pool our knowledge regarding TAX and crypto and make some kind of FAQ/sticky?

1…2425272930…33

Comments

  • #782
    .G.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,429 ✭✭✭.G.


    What's the idea behind two different payment periods anyway? Seems a bit uneccesary, especially when only covers one month.


  • #783
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,441 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    superg wrote: »
    What's the idea behind two different payment periods anyway? Seems a bit uneccesary, especially when only covers one month.
    No idea, I'm afraid. It may have been introduced so that the bulk of CGT arising in respect of transactions in any year would be received in that year, to improve government cashflow (and create a one-off jump in CGT receipts). But that's just a guess.


  • #784
    Cryptonovice
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 62 ✭✭Cryptonovice


    Taxback.com quoted me 75 euro to file a CG1 return..Not bad..400euro elsewhere it seems..Just if anyone wanted to know..Alot of accountancy companies are hanging up when they hear the word cryptocurrency!!lol


  • #785
    .G.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,429 ✭✭✭.G.


    Should paye workers be using form 12?


  • #786
    Cryptonovice
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 62 ✭✭Cryptonovice


    superg wrote: »
    Should paye workers be using form 12?
    Cg1 form if you are a paye worker and you don't usually submit returns!
    I think the form 12 is for full-time self employed folk...
    Correct me if I am wrong!!


  • Advertisement
  • #787
    .G.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,429 ✭✭✭.G.


    The webpage says form 12 if you are a paye worker and CG1 if you don't normally submit annual returns which would also apply to a PAYE worker so .......

    CG1 far easier to fill out, I'd do that myself, a lot more going on with form 12 though!


  • #788
    Cryptonovice
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 62 ✭✭Cryptonovice


    superg wrote: »
    The webpage says form 12 if you are a paye worker and CG1 if you don't normally submit annual returns which would also apply to a PAYE worker so .......

    CG1 far easier to fill out, I'd do that myself, a lot more going on with form 12 though!

    Its the cg1 form you fill out...any tips actually on filling it out! A €13.99 loss in my case..would be a shame to have to pay someone €75 to do that lol


  • #789
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,583 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    Sign up for Revenue online and do it all there.

    I filed a whole self-employed return online last year it's pretty straightforward once you're set up.


  • #790
    Cryptonovice
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 62 ✭✭Cryptonovice


    Dades wrote: »
    Sign up for Revenue online and do it all there.

    I filed a whole self-employed return online last year it's pretty straightforward once you're set up.

    Ya its a great online resource...CG1 return form has to be sent in a physical envelope though I think!


  • #791
    .G.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,429 ✭✭✭.G.


    Cryptonovice wrote: »
    Its the cg1 form you fill out...any tips actually on filling it out! A €13.99 loss in my case..would be a shame to have to pay someone €75 to do that lol

    Questions on it seemed fairly straight forward to me.


  • Advertisement
  • #792
    CryptoMad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29 ✭CryptoMad


    How are investors calculating historical trades for a specific time of day.

    For example on the 2nd January at 1 pm I bought Bitcoin. The following day at 10pm I converted Bitcoin to Altcoins.

    In any one day the price of Bitcoin can increase or decrease by 20% + (AM Bitcoin €10k PM Bitcoin €12k)

    When you calculate the price of Bitcoin on an historical trade, is there a way of calculating the hourly rate to fiat?

    I am aware that CoinMarketCap provides a tool that you can use to view the daily price I.e. close price. But this tool does not indicate the price at 1pm on the 2nd January.


  • #793
    Cryptonovice
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 62 ✭✭Cryptonovice


    CryptoMad wrote: »
    How are investors calculating historical trades for a specific time of day.

    For example on the 2nd January at 1 pm I bought Bitcoin. The following day at 10pm I converted Bitcoin to Altcoins.

    In any one day the price of Bitcoin can increase or decrease by 20% + (AM Bitcoin €10k PM Bitcoin €12k)

    When you calculate the price of Bitcoin on an historical trade, is there a way of calculating the hourly rate to fiat?

    I am aware that CoinMarketCap provides a tool that you can use to view the daily price I.e. close price. But this tool does not indicate the price at 1pm on the 2nd January.

    Cointracking.info you should use...input all your csv files from your exchanges and Cointracking.info will do the rest..exact prices at historical times


  • #794
    Seurat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 108 ✭✭Seurat


    If I register for cointracking.info and pay the €300 fee can I claim that back somehow?


  • #795
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,441 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    Andeargdoom wrote: »
    If I register for cointracking.info and pay the €300 fee can I claim that back somehow?
    No, I don't think so.

    If you were trading in bitcoin, and your earnings were being taxed as income, the costs of professional advice/services connected with the preparation of your tax return would be deductible as an expense of the trade.

    But if you are accounting for your bitcoin dealings as an investment, you get the benefit of lower CGT rates, but the only deductible expenses are the expenses of buying and selling. Additional expnses that you incur for tax compliance purposes are not deductible.

    If you effected your transactions through an exchange which provided that level of detail/information routinely, and the cost of this was built into the commissions charged on trades, then it would be deductible.


  • #796
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66,633 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Mining not taxed in Germany!

    See the links in the resources thread

    My ads on adverts.ie:

    https://www.adverts.ie/member/5856/ads



  • #797
    thegolfer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 346 ✭✭thegolfer


    unkel wrote: »
    Mining not taxed in Germany!

    See the links in the resources thread

    Unfortunately you're wrong here.

    The ruling is in respect of VAT, not income tax or CGT.

    The mining is deemed a service, however voluntary, and thus exempt for VAT purposes.

    No connection with regard to supply for consideration of a taxable supply of a good or service.

    VAT is a consumption tax, on transactions, unlike income tax or cgt on profits\gains.

    Back to the drawing board..


  • #798
    unkel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66,633 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Looks like you're right. The english language article is somewhat misleading, but if you look at the original German ruling, it is clear this is just about VAT:

    "Umsatzsteuerliche Behandlung von Bitcoin und anderen sog. virtuellen Währungen"

    Umsatzsteuer is VAT
    Umsatzsteuerliche Behandlung is VAT treatment

    My ads on adverts.ie:

    https://www.adverts.ie/member/5856/ads



  • #799
    Seurat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 108 ✭✭Seurat


    When I’m using cointracking.info does anyone know what to fill out on the tax reporting sheet settings for short and ling term percentages?


  • #800
    barneystinson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,686 ✭✭✭barneystinson


    Andeargdoom wrote: »
    When I’m using cointracking.info does anyone know what to fill out on the tax reporting sheet settings for short and ling term percentages?

    There's only a single rate in Ireland, which is 33%.


  • #801
    Seurat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 108 ✭✭Seurat


    barneystinson wrote: »
    Andeargdoom wrote: »
    When I’m using cointracking.info does anyone know what to fill out on the tax reporting sheet settings for short and ling term percentages?

    There's only a single rate in Ireland, which is 33%.

    Thanks,
    Appreciate the help


  • Advertisement
  • #802
    CryptoMad
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29 ✭CryptoMad


    Andeargdoom wrote: »
    Thanks,
    Appreciate the help

    Did you put 33% in both the long and short term settings?


  • #803
    .G.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,429 ✭✭✭.G.


    My response from revenue is in and is the same as every one else's bar the first person who asked. Although its worded quite generically and he totally avoided some of the specifics I asked.
    Dear Sir,

    Revenue looks at investments in cryptocurrency in the same manner as an investment in any other currency, stock, or share. If you are making a profit through the selling, gifting, or exchanging of your cryptocurrency, you need to declare it to Revenue for capital gains tax (CGT). You will need to file a CG1 Return which is due the year following your disposal. If you make a disposal between 1 January and 30 November then you must pay CGT by 15 December of the same year. If you make a disposal between 1 - 31 December, you must pay CGT by 31 January of the following year.


  • #804
    Seurat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 108 ✭✭Seurat


    CryptoMad wrote: »
    Andeargdoom wrote: »
    Thanks,
    Appreciate the help

    Did you put 33% in both the long and short term settings?

    Havent ran a report yet, but will leave them two spots empty I am guessing..as neither of them apply. The overall profit is taxed at 33%


  • #805
    .G.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,429 ✭✭✭.G.


    I often get different results each time i generate a report for the same transactions and I nearly always get different results when I put 33% in both boxes as opposed to when I put 33% in the short term box and I tick that long term doesn't apply. Which is all very strange cos they all mean the same thing.


  • #806
    thegolfer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 346 ✭✭thegolfer


    superg wrote: »
    My response from revenue is in and is the same as every one else's bar the first person who asked. Although its worded quite generically and he totally avoided some of the specifics I asked.

    What were your specific questions that were avoided?

    Revenue may view these as being generally available on their web that they are in essence answered already, with a bit of looking mind you.


  • #807
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,441 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    superg wrote: »
    I often get different results each time i generate a report for the same transactions and I nearly always get different results when I put 33% in both boxes as opposed to when I put 33% in the short term box and I tick that long term doesn't apply. Which is all very strange cos they all mean the same thing.
    Not necessarily. The system may assume that "long term does not apply" means "no tax on long term gains".

    Intuitively, I would think that putting 33% in both boxes is the correct approach. You can have gains on assets held for a short time or gains on assets held for a long time but, either way, the tax rate will be 33%. Therefore, it's 33% on both short- and long-term gains.

    But I say this without having actually looked at the system. So don't treat it as gospel.


  • #808
    .G.
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,429 ✭✭✭.G.


    Peregrinus wrote: »
    Not necessarily. The system may assume that "long term does not apply" means "no tax on long term gains".

    Intuitively, I would think that putting 33% in both boxes is the correct approach. You can have gains on assets held for a short time or gains on assets held for a long time but, either way, the tax rate will be 33%. Therefore, it's 33% on both short- and long-term gains.

    But I say this without having actually looked at the system. So don't treat it as gospel.

    Yeah thats what I'm sticking with, 33% in both boxes.

    A final question from me and then its off to pay and file!

    I use a website to keep track of the various coins and charts I'm interested in and I use it to place my buys and sells. Can i deduct the cost of my subscription to this website?

    Revenue webpage on CGT says this:-
    When calculating your CGT liability, you may deduct the following items:...

    costs (for example, fees paid by you to a solicitor or auctioneer) when you acquired and disposed of the asset.

    Would my subscription fees be applicable under that?


  • #809
    Cryptonovice
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 62 ✭✭Cryptonovice


    In the first part of the return form which option do people select for cryptocurrencies? Other assets or shares/securities quoted (is what an accountant selected on mine)


  • #810
    Seurat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 108 ✭✭Seurat


    superg wrote: »
    Peregrinus wrote: »
    Not necessarily. The system may assume that "long term does not apply" means "no tax on long term gains".

    Intuitively, I would think that putting 33% in both boxes is the correct approach. You can have gains on assets held for a short time or gains on assets held for a long time but, either way, the tax rate will be 33%. Therefore, it's 33% on both short- and long-term gains.

    But I say this without having actually looked at the system. So don't treat it as gospel.

    Yeah thats what I'm sticking with, 33% in both boxes.

    A final question from me and then its off to pay and file!

    I use a website to keep track of the various coins and charts I'm interested in and I use it to place my buys and sells. Can i deduct the cost of my subscription to this website?

    Revenue webpage on CGT says this:-
    When calculating your CGT liability, you may deduct the following items:...

    costs (for example, fees paid by you to a solicitor or auctioneer) when you acquired and disposed of the asset.

    Would my subscription fees be applicable under that?

    I would have thought that subscritpion to sites like coinigy could apply. I was told in a previous answer in this thread that even cointracking.info waa not applicable (even tho it is accountancy) so I am guessin not unless it is your sole source of income


  • Advertisement
  • #811
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,441 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    superg wrote: »
    Yeah thats what I'm sticking with, 33% in both boxes.

    A final question from me and then its off to pay and file!

    I use a website to keep track of the various coins and charts I'm interested in and I use it to place my buys and sells. Can i deduct the cost of my subscription to this website?

    Revenue webpage on CGT says this:-



    Would my subscription fees be applicable under that?
    I think not.

    If you were carrying on a trade of dealing in cryptocurrencies, the entire costs of the trade would be deductible, and that would include the cost of subscribing to your trading platform. But you'd income tax, not CGT, on the profits of the trade; you don't want that.

    Under the CGT regime, it's only the costs of the specific acquisitions and disposals which are deductible, not the costs of settting yourself up so that you can make acquisitions and disposals in the first place. So the fee or commission paid to acquire or dispose of a particular holding is deductible (but both acquistion and disposal cost are only deductible when that particular holding is actually disposed of) but the prior costs of getting access to the trading platform are not.


Advertisement