Is anyone else starting to become a bit worried? mod note in first post

JohnnyFlash · 18-03-2018 05:36PM

HerrKuehn wrote: »

Stop selling you idiots! arrggh

You buying at the moment amigo?

lifeandtimes · 18-03-2018 05:55PM

Bob24 wrote: »

The difference is that everyone needs a home so demand is guaranteed at a minimum level defined by the current population. Not everyone needs bitcoins.

Not everyone needs cars but there's nearly 2 for eber household.

It's supply and demand and as more business start accepting crypto it will go up.

Arizona accepting btc for taxs, the American congress meeting to discuss crytpo and saying "they want to get regulation right the first time" , Asian countrys looking to tax it, these are all positives towards it becoming more and more mainstream. Google and Facebook banning crypto ads was a very positive step becuase what they are actually doing to banning scam ICOs to protect people but that headline doesn't get as many clicks.

Like marmite people either love or hate crypto and are entitled to their opinion.

Only time will tell but in a digital world digital currency only seems right

crushproof · 18-03-2018 05:57PM

At this point I've not much choice but to hold for the long term. No point in cashing out considering how much its already wiped off my profits.

I'm taking a break from reading the forum (it will difficult to beat temptation to look) and checking my portfolio and shall come back in a few months and see where I'm at!

lifeandtimes · 18-03-2018 06:00PM

crushproof wrote: »

At this point I've not much choice but to hold for the long term. No point in cashing out considering how much its already wiped off my profits.

I'm taking a break from reading the forum (it will difficult to beat temptation to look) and checking my portfolio and shall come back in a few months and see where I'm at!

Someone told me there's a site or app that will lock your crypto for you without letting you access it for an extended time of you chooseing.

Great idea for long term hodlers

banie01 · 18-03-2018 06:07PM

lifeandtimes wrote: »

Someone told me there's a site or app that will lock your crypto for you without letting you access it for an extended time of you chooseing.

Great idea for long term hodlers

As opposed to a wallet or self controlled off line cold storage?
It also prevents anyone using it from taking advantage of a short term spike in price and immediate selling.
Its an app that there is really no reasonable need for, if one is using a wallet.

lifeandtimes · 18-03-2018 06:14PM

banie01 wrote: »

As opposed to a wallet or self controlled off line cold storage?
It also prevents anyone using it from taking advantage of a short term spike in price and immediate selling.
Its an app that there is really no reasonable need for, if one is using a wallet.

Ehm it's the same as bank accounts that require you to give 1 months notice before you can access your funds.

Some people cant trust themselves with their own wallet so the advantage is it stops people panic selling, like I said the point is long term holders who want to forget and check back in a year or whatever, not the day traders to take advantage of a spike and sell.

Suits some and not others

annie.t · 18-03-2018 06:20PM

ligerdub wrote: »

Ironic you used Newton as a reference, a man who lost his arse investing in the South Sea Company, one of the biggest bubbles to burst in the history of financial markets. That didn't shoot back up either.

How many South Sea Company bubbles there were in the history? Cause you know this is the third (or is it the fourth?) bubble in btc history right?
And it's not the last one

smacl · 18-03-2018 06:21PM

lifeandtimes wrote: »

Someone told me there's a site that will lock your crypto for you without letting you access it for an extended time

Bitgrail? :pac:

BloodBath · 18-03-2018 06:24PM

annie.t wrote: »

How many South Sea Company bubbles there were in the history? Cause you know this is the third (or is it the fourth?) bubble in btc history right?
And it's not the last one

You still think it's going to recover from this? Some people really are delusional.

This is the first real bubble. No drops in the past are comparable. Makes me wonder if people are even capable of reading a basic graph.

banie01 · 18-03-2018 06:27PM

lifeandtimes wrote: »

Ehm it's the same as bank accounts that require you to give 1 months notice before you can access your funds.

Some people cant trust themselves with their own wallet so the advantage is it stops people panic selling, like I said the point is long term holders who want to forget and check back in a year or whatever, not the day traders to take advantage of a spike and sell.

Suits some and not others

No its not!
A bank account contains FIAT currency that isnt subject to rapid swings in value.(Loss or gains barring hyper inflation)
Locking funds into a notice account also comes with the benefit of increased interest rates for the period the funds are "locked" earning you money whilst your funds are outside your control.
A bank account also comes with a guarantee of funds protection if the bank goes tits up!

Does the app you mentioned pay interest?
Does it offer a state backed guarantee?
Does it offer any advantage to a wallet other than a protection against "panic selling"?
Does the app even offer an advantage over holding the coins on an exchange?

The hodler mentality of just power through has some serious flaws in certain aituations, especially when an emergency strikes and immediate liquidity is needed.

To be quite frank its ridiculous to lock away funds in an app because you are worried about panic selling.
If someone has that little impulse control or knowledge regarding their investments, they should not be investing in the 1st place.

annie.t · 18-03-2018 06:29PM

BloodBath wrote: »

You still think it's going to recover from this? Some people really are delusional.

This is the first real bubble. No drops in the past are comparable. Makes me wonder if people are even capable of reading a basic graph.

No it's not the first real bubble. And its called a chart btw

Chart above is just an example

About "no drops in the past are comparable" part - how long are you in crypto? are you even? We are going even lower imo but its not the end.

lifeandtimes · 18-03-2018 06:32PM

banie01 wrote: »

A bank account contains FIAT currency that isnt subject to rapid swings in value.(Loss or gains barring hyper inflation)
Locking funds into a notice account also comes with the benefit of increased interest rates for the period the funds are "locked" earning you money whilst your funds are outside your control.

Does the app you mentioned pay interest?
Does it offer any advantage to a wallet other than a protection against "panic selling"?
Does the app even offer an advantage over holding the coins on an exchange?

The hodler mentality of just power through has some serious flaws in certain aituations, especially when an emergency strikes and immediate liquidity is needed.

To be quite frank its ridiculous to lock away funds in an app because you are worried about panic selling.
If someone has that little impulse control or knowledge regarding their investments, they should not be investing in the 1st place.

People can do what they want with their money and crytpo currency, just because they might be susceptible to panic selling and would rather put their coins away for a while doesn't give you the right to tell them they shouldnt be buying it

Just because you think it's stupid doesn't mean that it is.

The people who bought bitcoin years ago and sold say they wish they had just put it away and forgot, some people can be control themselves some can't and would benifit from it.

Instead of having a go at me about something I mentioned maybe just say it's not for me and move on, infact it wasn't even you I suggested it too so :-P

banie01 · 18-03-2018 06:38PM

lifeandtimes wrote: »

People can do what they want with their money and crytpo currency, just because they might be susceptible to panic selling and would rather put their coins away for a while doesn't give you the right to tell them they should be buying it

Just because you think it's stupid doesn't mean that it is.

The people who bought bitcoin years ago and sold say they wish they had just put it away and forgot, some people can be control themselves some can't and would benifit from it.

Instead of having a go at me about something I mentioned maybe just say it's not for me and move on, infact it wasn't even you I suggested it too so :-P

Well what I'd like for you to do is outline a response to the points I made highlighting why the app is a poor choice?

To defend your position with something other than

Just because you think it's stupid doesn't mean that it is.

I'm not having a go at you, I'm having a go at the advice you offered and if you can address the questions asked then I'm happy to maybe change my mind.
You know, the way discussion usually works?

Arrival · 18-03-2018 06:41PM

BloodBath wrote: »

You still think it's going to recover from this? Some people really are delusional.

This is the first real bubble. No drops in the past are comparable. Makes me wonder if people are even capable of reading a basic graph.

Why do people like you try to talk about things as if you know what you're talking when you don't know what you're talking about? Can you even name ten different cryptocurrencies besides the most known one's (BTC, ETH, LTC, XRP)? I ask this because someone who cannot do this proves that they haven't even done the most basic research and so their opinion is worthless -- for the same reason my opinion on rugby is worthless, I haven't got a clue about it so I don't bother trying to seem like I do. Do you even own any yet?

Anyway, yeah some people are delusional. That's great. Thanks for that insight.

lifeandtimes · 18-03-2018 06:45PM

banie01 wrote: »

Well what I'd like for you to do is outline a response to the points I made highlighting why the app is a poor choice?

To defend your position with something other than

I'm not having a go at you, I'm having a go at the advice you offered and if you can address the questions asked then I'm happy to maybe change my mind.
You know, the way discussion usually works?

Crushproof said
"I'm taking a break from reading the forum (it will difficult to beat temptation to look) and checking my portfolio and shall come back in a few months and see where I'm at!"

I commented on their post about something that might suit them.

I don't have to prove sh1te to you as it didn't concern you at all.

Laters!

banie01 · 18-03-2018 06:49PM

lifeandtimes wrote: »

Crushproof said
"I'm taking a break from reading the forum (it will difficult to beat temptation to look) and checking my portfolio and shall come back in a few months and see where I'm at!"

I commented on their post about something that might suit them.

I don't have to prove sh1te to you as it didn't concern you at all.

Laters!

So thats a no then?
Thought so.

You offered someone with almost zero experience poor advice and rather than address the points raised are bailing on this part of the conversation?

ligerdub · 18-03-2018 07:01PM

annie.t wrote:

How many South Sea Company bubbles there were in the history? Cause you know this is the third (or is it the fourth?) bubble in btc history right? And it's not the last one

I never claimed Bitcoin was a bubble. I merely pointed out the "for every action, there's a reaction" claim with reference to financial markets was utter nonsense.

I notice that poster chose to ignore another Newtonian anomaly, roughly speaking "what goes up, must come down". I have no idea where bitcoin will go, and to honest it means nothing to me as I will not be buying/selling bitcoin any time soon, nor have I done so to date.

People who follow a "well it went down so it should go up" shouldn't be putting any of their money into the market (any market). There is almost zero basis of an argument following that sort of mantra. I'd say the same for people who tend to buy because prices are flying up too. It's that sort of rubbish that gets people into the poorhouse or into some sort of ponzi scheme and blaming everyone else for it.

BloodBath · 18-03-2018 07:06PM

annie.t wrote: »

No it's not the first real bubble. And its called a chart btw

Chart above is just an example

About "no drops in the past are comparable" part - how long are you in crypto? are you even? We are going even lower imo but its not the end.

Doesn't matter whether I'm in it or not. I'm stating opinions the same as you are. My instincts are usually good. It's nearly late March now. Where is this recovery?

All it is now is a bunch of greedy speculators flogging a dead horse and people who lost money desperately hoping it goes back up. The time to invest is gone. The smart money has moved onto other things.

I may be wrong and you can come back in December and show me how wrong I am but I'll stick by it now. I don't see it going back above 10k this year.

We'll see who is right.

We can all link charts.

stages_bubble.png?resize=720%2C482&ssl=1

stages_bubble.png?resize=720%2C482&ssl=1

Arrival wrote: »

Why do people like you try to talk about things as if you know what you're talking when you don't know what you're talking about? Can you even name ten different cryptocurrencies besides the most known one's (BTC, ETH, LTC, XRP)? I ask this because someone who cannot do this proves that they haven't even done the most basic research and so their opinion is worthless -- for the same reason my opinion on rugby is worthless, I haven't got a clue about it so I don't bother trying to seem like I do. Do you even own any yet?

Anyway, yeah some people are delusional. That's great. Thanks for that insight.

Your opinion is also worthless. It's nothing but speculation on everyones behalf. At least I can acknowledge that. You think you're an expert? So tell me what the valuation will be come December Mr. expert?

I have predicted 1000% increases in multiple shares albeit not currencies in the past and I'm not an expert.

Pintman Paddy Losty · 18-03-2018 07:11PM

Down below $7500 now.

Deary me... looks like this "correction" is not done yet...

This is a good observation on the HODL culture.

annie.t · 18-03-2018 07:15PM

BloodBath wrote: »

Doesn't matter whether I'm in it or not. I'm stating opinions the same as you are. My instincts are usually good. It's nearly late March now. Where is this recovery?

All it is now is a bunch of greedy speculators flogging a dead horse and people who lost money desperately hoping it goes back up. The time to invest is gone. The smart money has moved onto other things.

I may be wrong and you can come back in December and show me how wrong I am but I'll stick by it now. I don't see it going back above 10k this year.

I never said anything about December this year, never mentioned any dates actaully. This bubble was the longest ever in btc so it might be years until it comes back who knows, but it will comeback. Obviously it's like you said just an opinion of a randomer on the internet just like your opinion. Always DYOR

lifeandtimes · 18-03-2018 07:37PM

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Down below $7500 now.

Deary me... looks like this "correction" is not done yet...

This is a good observation on the HODL culture.

Good point but an account called troll mctrollface does feck all for credibility.

A free fall and all the fudders come out of the woodwork like clock work to spread their "opinions" and i told you sos.

Where were they when the market was doing well?

This market will go up and down and like a brazzers knickers

I'm gonna bow out as this thread just goes back and forth.

Good luck everyone

smacl · 18-03-2018 07:50PM

BloodBath wrote: »

All it is now is a bunch of greedy speculators flogging a dead horse and people who lost money desperately hoping it goes back up. The time to invest is gone. The smart money has moved onto other things.

I may be wrong and you can come back in December and show me how wrong I am but I'll stick by it now. I don't see it going back above 10k this year.

We'll see who is right.

We can all link charts.

You could well be right, but if we're playing a game of link the chart, here's one taken right now of ETH/EUR over the last year. You reckon you have good instincts for reading charts, which to be fair is about as scientific as reading tea-leaves without more background information, but would you like to place a few tentative points on this chart for April / May / June 2018? Personally, I wouldn't be surprised to see levels close to July-Nov 2017 or another 35% or so drop. I also don't see any reason why an event such as the one that occurred this December won't happen again in a couple of years time. If you can think of a reason, I'd be keen to hear it. While I strongly suspect there will be similar spikes at some point in the future, the question is whether it will be in the current leading coins or among the alts. To say there won't be such events is to imply that crypto-currency is terminally defunct, never to return, which I personally think is extremely unlikely. Again, if you think differently, what is the rationale on which you've come to that conclusion?

Nika Bolokov · 18-03-2018 08:04PM

It's an interesting discussion here but the use of charts etc seems to suggest that this stuff has some fundamental value intrinsic value which of course it doesnt. It's not a claim on any asset and can't be used for anything.

The value is basically in supply and demand for the coins in themselves, with little or no actual commerce conducted through them now any estimate of where prices may go , up or down , is complete guesswork as the value these days is based on the mood of a large number of get rich quick types and those trying to manipulate this arena for gain by promoting it as something way more than it is.

It will probably be years now before we see where crypto will go really and that will only happen when the gamblers are out of the market.

Arrival · 18-03-2018 08:25PM

BloodBath wrote: »

Your opinion is also worthless. It's nothing but speculation on everyones behalf. At least I can acknowledge that. You think you're an expert? So tell me what the valuation will be come December Mr. expert?

I have predicted 1000% increases in multiple shares albeit not currencies in the past and I'm not an expert.

Jesus Christ

JohnnyFlash · 18-03-2018 08:31PM

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Down below $7500 now.

Deary me... looks like this "correction" is not done yet...

This is a good observation on the HODL culture.

Think a lot of the shrewd and canny investors and day traders will be left holding ‘bags’ of worthless coins, while a load of Chinese lads head off to Macau to drink scotch and gamble with westerners money. Laughing hysterically at how easy it all was. HODL, Paddy. Don’t be a salty nocoiner or FUD merchant. The fundamentals are strong.

BloodBath · 18-03-2018 08:34PM

smacl wrote: »

You could well be right, but if we're playing a game of link the chart, here's one taken right now of ETH/EUR over the last year. You reckon you have good instincts for reading charts, which to be fair is about as scientific as reading tea-leaves without more background information, but would you like to place a few tentative points on this chart for April / May / June 2018? Personally, I wouldn't be surprised to see levels close to July-Nov 2017 or another 35% or so drop. I also don't see any reason why an event such as the one that occurred this December won't happen again in a couple of years time. If you can think of a reason, I'd be keen to hear it. While I strongly suspect there will be similar spikes at some point in the future, the question is whether it will be in the current leading coins or among the alts. To say there won't be such events is to imply that crypto-currency is terminally defunct, never to return, which I personally think is extremely unlikely. Again, if you think differently, what is the rationale on which you've come to that conclusion?

I never said my instincts were based off of reading charts. I predicted a 1000% increase in AMD shares twice and Teslas once but that had very little to do with charts and more of a belief in the companies future products and business plan combined with a currently low bottomed out share value.

There is nothing scientific about predicting currency values especially in relation to cryptos unless you have the power and wealth to manipulate the markets. I also never said crypto was doomed. It's obviously the future of currency. I just don't think it will be the current big ones and my critic is mainly aimed at bitcoin and the currencies connected to it like Ethereum.

Congrats to those who made a killing on them but imo neither 1 will ever again see the highs or growth they had last year. There are other more exciting prospects.

grindle · 18-03-2018 08:47PM

Should this thread maybe be renamed to 'Crypto-Assets (Bitcoin, etc...)'?

There seem to be a fair few blow-ins who seem to think all cryptos are only being used as investment vehicles and failing as simple currencies, in which case ye should probably pipe down and read up on the industry?

Are they hilariously overvalued in comparison to current utility? Yep. Absurdly so. There's a huge amount of wealth being removed or changing hands from terrible bets on hilariously well-manipulated shítcoins or even from people buying well-manipulated ATHs of great projects and panic-selling dips.

Do they have absolutely no intrinsic value? Of course they do - please do some minimal research (or more if you want to form coherent thoughts on the subject), this is a disruptive and necessary technology. How it gets integrated into society and through which platforms we can't know, but we can lay our bets.
We'll never know what their true intrinsic value is thanks to rampant speculation but implying something doesn't have any intrinsic value just because you haven't read a jot on it is disingenuous.
A swathe of VCs and Fortune 500 companies investing and hiring based on crypto-meme lulz is as stupid as it sounds - they see an intrinsic value even if they can't know how to price it themselves.

As for not being used, how on Earth is Ethereum not being used? Every transaction, start-up funded through it and dApp built and being used on it is Ethereum being used.
Monero is certainly being used.
Many utility tokens are being used.
I agree that it'll be years before we see where it will go and that gambler will regularly get shaken out but they'll never be fully shaken out - the prospects for profits are too large.

I'd love to know which projects are more exciting than Ethereum, I would have imagined I'd have heard about it by now.

drunkmonkey · 18-03-2018 08:53PM

Where does Etherum Classic come into of all drops on the top coins today that’s dropped the least by a good %

Arrival · 18-03-2018 09:13PM

BloodBath wrote: »

I never said my instincts were based off of reading charts. I predicted a 1000% increase in AMD shares twice and Teslas once but that had very little to do with charts and more of a belief in the companies future products and business plan combined with a currently low bottomed out share value.

There is nothing scientific about predicting currency values especially in relation to cryptos unless you have the power and wealth to manipulate the markets. I also never said crypto was doomed. It's obviously the future of currency. I just don't think it will be the current big ones and my critic is mainly aimed at bitcoin and the currencies connected to it like Ethereum.

Congrats to those who made a killing on them but imo neither 1 will ever again see the highs or growth they had last year. There are other more exciting prospects.

You don't even realise that that same thing is happening in many CCs, especially Ethereum. Ethereum isn't just looking to be used as some replacement for cash, you know this, right? There are loads of CCs with the sole goal to be used as a currency but Ethereum is far more grand than that and the team working on it and their goals are what many people are placing speculative bets on, just as many people once did for Google, Apple, Amazon etc.. Have you even read the Ethereum white paper? If you did you would see why people are hyped for the future of it, regardless of the value of the Ether token

grindle wrote: »

There seem to be a fair few blow-ins who seem to think all cryptos are only being used as investment vehicles and failing as simple currencies, in which case ye should probably pipe down and read up on the industry?

Absolutely. They haven't a clue that there are loads of niches in this industry. An easy way I find to explain this is by using the internet and websites as a comparison; there are websites for social media, there are websites for news, there are websites for entertainment etc. and they're not all the same simply because they're websites. They have different uses and different teams behind their creation. This is the same with CCs, there are over 1,500 different CCs at this stage, I can't believe there are idiots that think that every single one of those is just in some competition to be a basic currency and replacement for fiat. People like this should just be removed from the forum, they can't even be bothered doing absolutely minimal research and just derail threads with their ignorance. Any person with half a clue would see all the people posting about different uses CCs have and think "hang on a second, maybe I should actually look into the fundamental ideas behind some of the main CCs to see if there's more to this than I thought"

grindle · 18-03-2018 10:24PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Where does Etherum Classic come into of all drops on the top coins today that’s dropped the least by a good %

It depends on how important you think the phrase "Code Is Law" is and more importantly how valuable you think that phrase will be to people or companies utilising a chain who may lose hundreds of millions thanks to a badly written contract and suffer subsequent theft.

Some laws are good, some are bad, some are bad laws with loopholes and some are good laws with loopholes. Somebody will find the loopholes/exploits and take advantage at some point, especially as code/contracts become more complex - do you want some of that chain's funds to eventually be swindled and have little chance of getting it back or would you like to at least have a vote on whether or not those funds get retrieved?

Relative price-drops mean about as much as the ludicrous daily gains which happen frequently.
Could be due to having a large community of spectrum-dwelling holders who think theft should be allowed because "Code Is Law. Code Is Law. Code Is Law."

I think consensus is more important than allowing travesties like giving 3.6% of total supply to some crook.
Read the opposite perspective and you can make up your own mind, try to evaluate whether or not businesses or people in general will have the same mindset as a minority of anarcho-idealist code-fiends (which is quite telling actually).

Charles Hoskinson, one of the main pulls for ETC and co-founder of Ethereum doesn't develop for ETC any more, even he found ETC's direction to be too single-minded - although having said that his/IOHK's proposal for a treasury fund to be siphoned from miner rewards was always going to be highly divisive.

ETC may still be very successful, who knows?

Is anyone else starting to become a bit worried? mod note in first post

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