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The 8th Amendment Part 2 - Mod Warning in OP

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  • 17-03-2018 3:54pm
    #1
    Ken.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,898 ✭✭✭✭


    Link to old thread https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=106464600#post106464600


    The citizens assembly voted to replace or amend the 8th amendment.

    50% voted to replace or amend
    44% voted to repeal
    Rest preferred to not state an opinion

    Now deciding how it will be replaced or amended
    : Let the Dail legislate on the rights of the unborn
    : Amend the provision in the constitution.

    Meltdown on twitter by Repealthe8th people.


    Mod- This thread has descended in to petty name calling. We've tried to let this thread run without too much mod interference but now it's on our radar we will be watching. From here on the name calling stops. If you can't debate civilly we will remove your right to post.

    Credit to RobertKK for the opening post in the last thread.


    If you are thread banned from the old you are thread banned from this one also.

    How will you vote in the referendum 68 votes

    I will vote AGAINST repealing the 8th
    0% 0 votes
    I will vote FOR repealing the 8th
    100% 68 votes


«134567…325

Comments

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    #2
    Jen Pigs Fly
    Registered Users Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭Jen Pigs Fly


    I know how I'll be voting - about time we can decide to control what happens to our own bodies


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    #3
    MilesMorales1
    Registered Users Posts: 6,431 ✭✭✭MilesMorales1


    I'll be voting to give women control over their own bodies and dispel all this nonsense the anti-choice side is peddling about murdering the unborn and all that rubbish.


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    #4
    robarmstrong
    Registered Users Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    Can't wait for this to be repealed so I can watch a few of the save the 8thers slither back into their caves and look for something else to deny their fellow citizens with.

    It's 2018, it's modern times. Abortion happens in Ireland already, this will just broaden it and redefine it so that it will be more accessible (no, not abortion on demand like cretins would say, as it's already been stamped across numerous times that it will be done on a case by case basis along with nothing over 12 weeks before they pop up with the classic "they'll be able to have abortions at any time!!!111 soundbite").

    It's time to allow women to have the right to control over their own bodies, grow up.


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    #5
    robarmstrong
    Registered Users Posts: 1,598 ✭✭✭robarmstrong


    Reposting this so it's on the first page.


    "ABORTION IS BARBARIC AND GOES AGAINST GOD!!!" - so does having mass graves for babies that were stillborn, ill or just tossed aside by followers of their similar ideology.

    "YOU'RE MURDERING A BABY!!!" - see above.

    "TAKING A LIFE!!!" - completely ignoring the amount of poor souls who were driven to commit suicide due to the abuse suffered upon them by the same followers as previously mentioned. What about all their lives?

    "THEY ARE EQUAL" - no, they really are not. One is an existing person, one is not an existing person (yet). It does not make sense to give an unborn human/fetus/zygote/whatever emotional or non emotional terminology priority rights over an existing human, that's just a fallacy.

    "IT'LL BE AN ABORTION ON DEMAND FREE FOR ALL THAT CAN HAPPEN AT ANY TIME DURING A PREGNANCY!!" - absolutely not. It's proposed at a cut-off point of 12 weeks, on a case-by-case basis along with mental health and physical health assessments to ensure that this right is not abused.


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    #6
    retro:electro
    Registered Users Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    100 years of the female vote. Time to end the nonsense and allow women decide for themselves what is best for them. I don’t care what a stranger irrelevant to my life cares about what I should do with my body. It is a matter between a woman and her doctor. Everyone else needs to mind their own.
    Don’t want an abortion? Don’t have one.
    But your principles and values which bear no relevance to my life should not supersede my own.


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    #7
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,730 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Reposting this slightly edited as it was originally a reply, it is about the negative butterfly effect of the missing people in society due to abortion being normalised.

    In time I think what some people view as moderate abortion proposals now will in time be viewed as being extreme. There was a time when slavery was not seen as extreme, there is still slavery in the world in 2018 where people are bought and sold. Because it happens it doesn't mean it should be legal.
    I don't believe in the trading of life, where one life is seen as inferior, it is a view that ends up permeating society. It has happened in countries where abortion was legalised, abortion rates go up.
    The high levels of abortion has also contributed in the western world for the need for higher immigration given not enough people are being born, and this has led to tensions and the rise of the far right.
    Back in 2012 the figure was 30% of pregnancies in Europe were aborted or about 2.2 million abortions, a few years later we see Merkel and some others seeing the refugee crisis as a means to fix a demographic problem of not enough young people to fill jobs and pay the taxes. We saw the consequences of this policy and the problem stems from a disregard for life in the womb, which leads to not enough people being born as they are seen as disposable, the replacement of these missing people with immigration from areas of the world which do not share the same culture or heritage. Resentment and now the main opposition party in Germany is a far right party.
    Abortion has led to discrimination against girls in some countries, where we see being an unborn female is the reason to be aborted. Today we see the unbalanced populations in some countries like China and India where tens of million of women are missing in society because females are viewed as inferior, with men who will never have a chance to find a woman to share love, because the women were never given the chance of life as they were seen as disposable in the womb.
    But this is what we get when people talk about choice, viewing the lives of others as disposable, but not thinking about the consequences down the line.
    Abortion brings about a very negative butterfly effect.


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    #8
    MilesMorales1
    Registered Users Posts: 6,431 ✭✭✭MilesMorales1


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Reposting this slightly edited as it was originally a reply, it is about the negative butterfly effect of the missing people in society due to abortion being normalised.

    In time I think what some people view as moderate abortion proposals now will in time be viewed as being extreme. There was a time when slavery was not seen as extreme, there is still slavery in the world in 2018 where people are bought and sold. Because it happens it doesn't mean it should be legal.
    I don't believe in the trading of life, where one life is seen as inferior, it is a view that ends up permeating society. It has happened in countries where abortion was legalised, abortion rates go up.
    The high levels of abortion has also contributed in the western world for the need for higher immigration given not enough people are being born, and this has led to tensions and the rise of the far right.
    Back in 2012 the figure was 30% of pregnancies in Europe were aborted or about 2.2 million abortions, a few years later we see Merkel and some others seeing the refugee crisis as a means to fix a demographic problem of not enough young people to fill jobs and pay the taxes. We saw the consequences of this policy and the problem stems from a disregard for life in the womb, which leads to not enough people being born as they are seen as disposable, the replacement of these missing people with immigration from areas of the world which do not share the same culture or heritage. Resentment and now the main opposition party in Germany is a far right party.
    Abortion has led to discrimination against girls in some countries, where we see being an unborn female is the reason to be aborted. Today we see the unbalanced populations in some countries like China and India where tens of million of women are missing in society because females are viewed as inferior, with men who will never have a chance to find a woman to share love, because the women were never given the chance of life as they were seen as disposable in the womb.
    But this is what we get when people talk about choice, viewing the lives of others as disposable, but not thinking about the consequences down the line.
    Abortion brings about a very negative butterfly effect.

    What a load of old cobblers.


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    #9
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,730 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    MilesMorales1 wrote: »
    What a load of old cobblers.

    You can say that, but you bring no evidence to back up your cobblers. Europe has low birth rates and abortion has a negative impact on European society.


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    #10
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    RobertKK wrote: »
    You can say that, but you bring no evidence to back up your cobblers.

    What will be the aftermath of your imaginary butterfly effect?

    You are actually talking nonsense unless youre gifted with some sort of clairvoyance the rest of us aren’t


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    #11
    MilesMorales1
    Registered Users Posts: 6,431 ✭✭✭MilesMorales1


    RobertKK wrote: »
    You can say that, but you bring no evidence to back up your cobblers. Europe has low birth rates and abortion has a negative impact on European society.

    Nope, like most of your ilk you're using appeals to sentimental emotions to try and sway people. You don't have anything to back this up either
    Today we see the unbalanced populations in some countries like China and India where tens of million of women are missing in society because females are viewed as inferior, with men who will never have a chance to find a woman to share love


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    #12
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    We are not India or China. In no universe are the situations comparable in any way whatsoever.

    Grasping at straws there Robert


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    #13
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    So abortion is now to blame for racist people...........


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    #14
    Ken.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,898 ✭✭✭✭Ken.


    What do people think of a poll for the thread.
    Simple question 'How will you vote in the referendum?'
    2 possible answers
    I'll vote in favour of repealing the 8th
    I'll vote against repealing the 8th.


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    #15
    Virgil°
    Registered Users Posts: 1,213 ✭✭✭Virgil°


    Conspectus wrote: »
    What do people think of a poll for the thread.
    Simple question 'How will you vote in the referendum?'
    2 possible answers
    I'll vote in favour of repealing the 8th
    I'll vote against repealing the 8th.
    Maybe with an "Undecided as of yet" option?

    ill be voting to repeal mind you but it'd be good to know the discussion can have an effect on those on the fence.


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    #16
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    Conspectus wrote: »
    What do people think of a poll for the thread.
    Simple question 'How will you vote in the referendum?'
    2 possible answers
    I'll vote in favour of repealing the 8th
    I'll vote against repealing the 8th.

    Lot of pro life posters seem to be new accounts out of nowhere.


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    #17
    Edward M
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,837 ✭✭✭Edward M


    Conspectus wrote: »
    What do people think of a poll for the thread.
    Simple question 'How will you vote in the referendum?'
    2 possible answers
    I'll vote in favour of repealing the 8th
    I'll vote against repealing the 8th.

    It'd be a good idea, but just from participating, a major percentage in favour of repeal on here, as one poster already said, if it was just boardsies involved, repeal would romp home.
    While it would be good to see the actual figures just on here, I don't think it might be overall representative of a countrywide vote.


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    #18
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    Conspectus wrote: »
    What do people think of a poll for the thread.
    Simple question 'How will you vote in the referendum?'
    2 possible answers
    I'll vote in favour of repealing the 8th
    I'll vote against repealing the 8th.

    Once it's not a public vote, I see no harm; although it won't be indicative of the general population if previous polls are anything to go by.


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    #19
    Ken.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,898 ✭✭✭✭Ken.


    Good idea on the undecided option and of course Srameen the vote will be private.


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    #20
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,730 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    david75 wrote: »
    What will be the aftermath of your imaginary butterfly effect?

    You are actually talking nonsense unless youre gifted with some sort of clairvoyance the rest of us aren’t

    Are you saying Germany doesn't have low birth rates?
    Are you saying it is good for Germany to have low birth rates with abortion contributing to low birth rates?
    Do you think it was good for Germany to try and use the migrant crisis as a means to fill a demographic deficit, which led to an increase in crimes like sexual assaults on women, resentment in society to the point the largest opposition party in Germany is the far right?
    Look at the UK, relying on immigration, then the EU referendum came about and immigration which the UK actually needs due to the missing people brought about from legalised abortion where up to 200,000 unborn lives are ended every year. Immigration was one of the reasons people voted for Brexit, but the butterfly effect of killing the unborn for decades meant the UK needs immigrants.
    Do you not agree that sex select abortions happen? They happen in the UK among minority communities even though they are illegal.
    We see the butterfly effect of it in Asia where men greatly outnumber women.
    The butterfly effect of abortion, it may seem as not a big deal, there is evidence from other countries that legalised abortion leads to more abortion not less, but year after year, as the missing people from the result of abortion build up, the effects on society grows as populations will get older as abortion distorts demographics.
    There is a reason why Ireland has the youngest population in Europe.


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    #21
    mzungu
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,307 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    RobertKK wrote: »

    In time I think what some people view as moderate abortion proposals now will in time be viewed as being extreme. There was a time when slavery was not seen as extreme, there is still slavery in the world in 2018 where people are bought and sold. Because it happens it doesn't mean it should be legal.
    No comparison between slavery and abortion and trying to draw one between the two does your argument no favours.
    RobertKK wrote: »
    I don't believe in the trading of life, where one life is seen as inferior, it is a view that ends up permeating society. It has happened in countries where abortion was legalised, abortion rates go up.
    The rates don't actually go up, it just means that they are officially recorded. Big difference.
    RobertKK wrote: »
    The high levels of abortion has also contributed in the western world for the need for higher immigration given not enough people are being born, and this has led to tensions and the rise of the far right.
    Can you provide evidence of this? You are suggesting that abortion results in the need for immigration and helps the far right is a pretty big claim which requires evidence. I think you are incorrect (see answer below) .
    RobertKK wrote: »
    Back in 2012 the figure was 30% of pregnancies in Europe were aborted or about 2.2 million abortions, a few years later we see Merkel and some others seeing the refugee crisis as a means to fix a demographic problem of not enough young people to fill jobs and pay the taxes. We saw the consequences of this policy and the problem stems from a disregard for life in the womb, which leads to not enough people being born as they are seen as disposable, the replacement of these missing people with immigration from areas of the world which do not share the same culture or heritage. Resentment and now the main opposition party in Germany is a far right party.
    The above is not evidence. Germany, and a lot of western nations have low birth rates because there are more options available to advance ones career etc. Developed societies generally have lower birth rates. It has zero to do with abortion.
    RobertKK wrote: »
    Abortion has led to discrimination against girls in some countries, where we see being an unborn female is the reason to be aborted. Today we see the unbalanced populations in some countries like China and India where tens of million of women are missing in society because females are viewed as inferior, with men who will never have a chance to find a woman to share love, because the women were never given the chance of life as they were seen as disposable in the womb.
    That is another big claim, do you have evidence of the above?
    RobertKK wrote: »
    But this is what we get when people talk about choice, viewing the lives of others as disposable, but not thinking about the consequences down the line.
    Abortion brings about a very negative butterfly effect.
    Countries with abortion have been moving along fine with no fire and brimstone end of days yada yada yada occurring. As regards "consequences down the line", what exactly do you mean by that? IMO if there was anything to be aware of, we would know about it now as it would have been flagged. But it looks like life will move on and we will be the same as we always have been.


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    #22
    Turtyturd
    Registered Users Posts: 28,395 ✭✭✭✭Turtyturd


    Using the migrant issues of Germany as an argument against allowing abortion might be the moment you jumped the shark.


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    #23
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,730 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    mzungu wrote: »
    1. No comparison between slavery and abortion. Trying to draw a comparison between the two does your argument no favours.


    2.The rates don't actually go up, it just means that they are officially recorded. Big difference.


    3. Going to need evidence of this. Abortion results in the need for immigration and helps the far right is a pretty big claim, which requires evidence.


    4. The above is not evidence. Germany, and a lot of western nations have low birth rates because there are more options available to advance ones career etc. Developed societies generally have lower birth rates. It has zero to do with abortion.


    5. That is a big claim, do you have evidence of the above?


    6. Countries with abortion have been moving along fine with no fire and brimstone end of days yada yada yada occurring. As regards "consequences down the line", if there were any, we would have known about them long before now.

    Numbered your points to make it easier for you.

    1. When the most innocent of human life is seen as disposable, it does permeate into other areas.

    2. In the UK the abortion level rose for years after it was legalised, started low but it took many years to build up to what it is now as abortion became normalised and acceptable in the minds of more people as society had made killing the unborn a norm, it built up to an average of 190k to 200k per year.

    3. Germany is clear evidence of a country that does not have enough babies born, has between 1 in 5 and 1 in 6 pregnancies aborted Reliant on immigrant workers to fill jobs, Merkel invited in 1 million plus as a means to fill a hole. Germany has around 100,000 abortions a year - it was higher, are you going to argue that say over a 20 year period, that missing around 2 million people who could have been if not aborted, doesn't leave a hole that immigration has to fill? The policy Merkel used to fill the hole, and which led to a rise in the far right.

    4. see point 3

    5. http://www.bbc.com/capital/story/20170213-why-millions-of-chinese-men-are-staying-single
    China has many millions more men than women, a hangover of the country's one-child policy, which was overturned in 2015, though its effects will last decades more. The gender imbalance is making it hard for many men to find a partner – and the gap is likely to widen. By 2020, it’s estimated there will be 30 million more men than women looking for a partner.
    The effects of abortion in all societies is long lasting, whether from sex select abortion or the effects of abortion on societies with already low birth rates.

    6. Are they moving along fine? Countries with the far right on the rise due to mass immigration being needed to fill a demographic hole. An estimated 200 million missing women in the world due to sex select abortions which also happen illegally in the UK. The effects of abortion are long lasting on society and are negative.


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    #24
    RobertKK
    Registered Users Posts: 33,730 ✭✭✭✭RobertKK


    Turtyturd wrote: »
    Using the migrant issues of Germany as an argument against allowing abortion might be the moment you jumped the shark.

    But you put across no argument, you make a statement with nothing to back it up.


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    #25
    Martina1991
    Registered Users Posts: 2,540 ✭✭✭Martina1991


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Are you saying Germany doesn't have low birth rates?
    Are you saying it is good for Germany to have low birth rates with abortion contributing to low birth rates?
    Do you think it was good for Germany to try and use the migrant crisis as a means to fill a demographic deficit, which led to an increase in crimes like sexual assaults on women, resentment in society to the point the largest opposition party in Germany is the far right?
    Look at the UK, relying on immigration, then the EU referendum came about and immigration which the UK actually needs due to the missing people brought about from legalised abortion where up to 200,000 unborn lives are ended every year. Immigration was one of the reasons people voted for Brexit, but the butterfly effect of killing the unborn for decades meant the UK needs immigrants.
    Do you not agree that sex select abortions happen? They happen in the UK among minority communities even though they are illegal.
    We see the butterfly effect of it in Asia where men greatly outnumber women.
    The butterfly effect of abortion, it may seem as not a big deal, there is evidence from other countries that legalised abortion leads to more abortion not less, but year after year, as the missing people from the result of abortion build up, the effects on society grows as populations will get older as abortion distorts demographics.
    There is a reason why Ireland has the youngest population in Europe.

    European women (including Irish) are getting married and having children much later than the baby booming generation. Having children at a later stage means families are smaller, hence a lower birth rate.

    What evidence do you have that “legalised abortion leads to more abortions”.


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    #26
    david75
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,611 ✭✭✭david75


    RobertKK wrote: »
    But you put across no argument, you make a statement with nothing to back it up.

    There is no cultural or statistical comparison or relevance between Ireland and China.

    It’s so totally laughable that you’re using that as an argument.


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    #27
    finbar10
    Registered Users Posts: 97 ✭✭finbar10


    In the poll I opted for the NO vote. I think the current proposal just goes too far. I'd be prepared to allow the Oireachtas to legislate for abortion as long as their hands were tied to some degree in the constitution.

    The recent government abortion policy paper copper-fastened (with its 21 principles) this decision. The proposal is for abortion without restriction before 12 weeks. Afterwards, it seems a mirror of UK provisions with just need for any two doctors to sign off for mental/physical health reasons: not serious health reasons or certainly not threats to the life of the mother or danger of suicide, just vague health reasons as per the vast majority of abortions in the UK. A cut off for viability (23 or 24 weeks) as in the UK isn't even mentioned (there was some mention of medical guidelines or best practice but no mention of legislative limits).

    I'd think that the Oireachtas committee is a good gauge of how the Dáil might vote on legislation. There are lots of TDs refusing to say or make a definite stand (making noises they might not vote for 12 weeks after the passage of a referendum; just all for show I'd say). I'd say those objections will melt away like the morning mist in the aftermath of a successful referendum. I'd say the votes of the Oireachtas committee is an indication of the true Dáil state of play.

    My initial expectation if the referendum passed is that legislation would morph to a liberal abortion regime within 5 or 10 years. However, it looks like we'll fairly immediately jump to such a regime if the amendment is passed.

    All too far for me. We're being presented with an all or nothing proposal unfortunately. So NO for me. However, if Regina Doherty is to be believed today, a NO vote would only soon lead to another vote. That's not very respectful of voters. However, most likely any new proposal would be an amendment constraining the Oireachtas a bit more in the legislation it could pass. This is a proposal that would easily pass, and I'd be happy enough with.

    So a NO from me for this referendum. The current proposal goes way too far for my liking. No thanks.


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    #28
    mzungu
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,307 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    RobertKK wrote: »
    Numbered your points to make it easier for you.
    Cool, I will do likewise :)
    RobertKK wrote: »
    1. When the most innocent of human life is seen as disposable, it does permeate into other areas.

    2. In the UK the abortion level rose for years after it was legalised, started low but it took many years to build up to what it is now as abortion became normalised and acceptable in the minds of more people as society had made killing the unborn a norm, it built up to an average of 190k to 200k per year.

    3. Germany is clear evidence of a country that does not have enough babies born, has between 1 in 5 and 1 in 6 pregnancies aborted Reliant on immigrant workers to fill jobs, Merkel invited in 1 million plus as a means to fill a hole. Germany has around 100,000 abortions a year - it was higher, are you going to argue that say over a 20 year period, that missing around 2 million people who could have been if not aborted, doesn't leave a hole that immigration has to fill? The policy Merkel used to fill the hole, and which led to a rise in the far right.

    4. see point 3

    5. http://www.bbc.com/capital/story/20170213-why-millions-of-chinese-men-are-staying-single

    The effects of abortion in all societies is long lasting, whether from sex select abortion or the effects of abortion on societies with already low birth rates.

    6. Are they moving along fine? Countries with the far right on the rise due to mass immigration being needed to fill a demographic hole. An estimated 200 million missing women in the world due to sex select abortions which also happen illegally in the UK. The effects of abortion are long lasting on society and are negative.
    1. That still doesn't explain your suggestion that slavery and abortion are linked, nor how it would "permeate into other areas".

    2. Post introduction of abortion in the UK there has been a sharp decline in cases of sepsis and death due to illegal abortions. Abortion was happening prior to that, legalising it made it safer. The vast majority of abortions (95%) are carried out under grounds of prevention of physical and mental harm to the pregnant woman. Furthermore, the UK comes in slightly below average in Europe when it comes to abortion rates. Why not look at Northern Ireland, they have precious few abortions per year, chances are we would end up along those lines, rather than mimicking exactly what happens across the water. Not that it matters, because either way none of those cases suggest abortion being out of control.

    3. In Germany (and the west) birth rates are falling because a lot of people don't want massive families. We have moved on from the "go forth and multiply" days, people are now voluntarily staying single, co-habiting without children, or co-habiting with a small amount of children. They are exercising a free choice. The same will probably happen here eventually, even our birth rate is dropping and we don't have abortion (yet).

    It doesn't matter how many abortions took place in Germany. It has not led to the immigration crisis or the need for immigrants. Correlation does not equal causation.

    4. See point 3.

    5. That was purely a result of Chinas one-child policy, and nothing whatsoever to do with abortion.

    6. Unfortunately, the far right have always been around in one guise or another. They would have popped up with another issue eventually. Sure, the Irish were targets of the British far right a few years back.

    Regarding sex selective abortion, even outside of the west, that is still widely disputed. According to MacPhearson (2007) the differences could be attributed to food access, gender violence and immunisations between male and female children. This then leads to a higher infant mortality among girls.

    Regarding sex selective abortions in the UK, there is no evidence that it's a problem. Only hearsay suggests that it is developing into an issue, but there is no proof to back that up.

    MacPherson, Y. (2007). "Images and Icons: Harnessing the Power of Media to Reduce Sex-Selective Abortion in India". Gender and Development. 15 (2): 413–23


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    #29
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Will be voting to repeal.

    Seems a lot of the people against also have a problem with women in general from reading their posts on other threads and their stance on the vote is just an extension of thier issues rather than any real concern for the unborn.


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    #30
    Simi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,868 ✭✭✭Simi


    finbar10 wrote: »
    In the poll I opted for the NO vote. I think the current proposal just goes too far. I'd be prepared to allow the Oireachtas to legislate for abortion as long as their hands were tied to some degree in the constitution.


    However, most likely any new proposal would be an amendment constraining the Oireachtas a bit more in the legislation it could pass. This is a proposal that would easily pass, and I'd be happy enough with.

    So a NO from me for this referendum. The current proposal goes way too far for my liking. No thanks.

    I disagree with your assessment that an amendment restricting the ability of the Oireachtas to legislate only for specific cases would easily pass. In fact the current proposals are as restrictive as the government could make them without alienating core repeal voters, in my opinion.

    There is no appetite for inserting another abortion clause into the constitution amongst any of the main organisations supporting repeal, and restricting abortion to rape, incest and FFA to appease a small percentage of voters who only support terminations in these circumstances, would completely alienate pro-choice voters like myself.

    A half way proposal, is just that and would tie future governments into a never ending saga of court cases, dail debates and protests. The current proposals have the support of the majority and the government would be wise to stick to them.


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    #31
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users Posts: 30,320 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    Mod Note This thread is kind of hand to moderate to be honest at times.
    If you have issues and you believe accounts to be duplicates please report.
    Another issue to bare in mind is some people might have very liberal or conservative views. I don't think this is trolling unless there using hate speech/excessive rudeness/etc.


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