Is anyone else starting to become a bit worried? mod note in first post

JohnnyFlash · 08-03-2018 07:52PM

lifeandtimes wrote: »

Morgan by name, Moran by nature?

That makes no sense, pal.

lifeandtimes · 08-03-2018 08:35PM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

That makes no sense, pal.

It supposed to be a pun joke based on the name but I guess it didn't work

Manic Moran · 11-03-2018 10:38AM

You know, about now would be appreciated for a long, steady rise....

grindle · 11-03-2018 10:55AM

Thinking of selling?

crushproof · 11-03-2018 12:03PM

Manic Moran wrote: »

You know, about now would be appreciated for a long, steady rise....

My hopes of this get slimmer everyday. Seriously considering selling it all during the next pump. Far too much uncertainty and the "buzz" of crypto seems to be fading so little chance of meteoric rises in the near future.

lifeandtimes · 11-03-2018 12:26PM

crushproof wrote: »

My hopes of this get slimmer everyday. Seriously considering selling it all during the next pump. Far too much uncertainty and the "buzz" of crypto seems to be fading so little chance of meteoric rises in the near future.

Still plenty of buzz, it's just the people who jumped on the bandwagon at xmas have up and left and now the people who actually believe in crypto have stuck around.

Crypto isn't going anywhere and is going to be the currency of the future.

The statement hodl is there for a reason

seannash · 11-03-2018 01:55PM

lifeandtimes wrote: »

Still plenty of buzz, it's just the people who jumped on the bandwagon at xmas have up and left and now the people who actually believe in crypto have stuck around.

Crypto isn't going anywhere and is going to be the currency of the future.

The statement hodl is there for a reason

I think most believe its here to stay, what most people are curious about and uncertain about is if the opportunity to make good money is there anymore.
Ive often wondered If cryptocurrency is adopted as a form of fiat worldwide the growth will fall in line with the "growth" of the euro vs another currency.

grindle · 11-03-2018 02:21PM

seannash wrote: »

I think most believe its here to stay, what most people are curious about and uncertain about is if the opportunity to make good money is there anymore.
Ive often wondered If cryptocurrency is adopted as a form of fiat worldwide the growth will fall in line with the "growth" of the euro vs another currency.

The growth would taper off for the base currency (if there is one) but that's very very far away, if at all. UX would have to improve dramatically and people would have to remember how important privacy and ownership are.

If any service can benefit from a blockchain, be tokenised and gain real use, there's an opportunity for growth. Tech companies aren't going to stop being built, innovation isn't going to grind to a halt.

seannash · 11-03-2018 02:25PM

grindle wrote: »

The growth would taper off for the base currency (if there is one) but that's very very far away, if at all. UX would have to improve dramatically and people would have to remember how important privacy and ownership are.

If any service can benefit from a blockchain, be tokenised and gain real use, there's an opportunity for growth. Tech companies aren't going to stop being built, innovation isn't going to grind to a halt.

Absolutely, then the question gets raised what does your coin give you. Is it the equivalent of a share in these tech companies?
I see a lot of platforms that use there coins as payment for their services. Id be worried that they will just start accepting fiat and coins would have no value anymore.

Thedukester00 · 11-03-2018 02:41PM

Just purchased my first share in both Litecoin and BTC.

Anyone know a decent person to follow on Twitter for sound current advice?

grindle · 11-03-2018 04:46PM

seannash wrote: »

Absolutely, then the question gets raised what does your coin give you. Is it the equivalent of a share in these tech companies?

Some coins work like shares, most try to avoid dividend models so they won't be classified as securities. You're gambling on the utility of the token.
Is the service good? If yes -> token gets bought, buying pressure increases, value increases. If not -> reverse happens.

seannash wrote: »

I see a lot of platforms that use there coins as payment for their services. Id be worried that they will just start accepting fiat and coins would have no value anymore.

I'm confused as to why or how you think this could happen.
What's the point of building a service with a token economy in mind if they want to drop it's value to zero?
They're going to pivot back towards a trad model, dump blockchain, start accepting PayPal and Visa for their service?
I don't see the incentive - the community they've built up would have their heads on a spike for duping them & they'll have a hell of a time marketing their way out of that mess. If their blockchain model involved users providing the service's value (renting storage or processing power, rewarding data scientists and analysts for spotting patterns, etc etc) then they've put themselves out of business and etched their names to a global blacklist.

Manic Moran · 11-03-2018 07:11PM

grindle wrote: »

Thinking of selling?

Nope. Still not planning on doing so any time before, oh, August or Sept. I would just like it higher before then!

S.M.B. · 11-03-2018 08:21PM

grindle wrote: »

I'm confused as to why or how you think this could happen.
What's the point of building a service with a token economy in mind if they want to drop it's value to zero?
They're going to pivot back towards a trad model, dump blockchain, start accepting PayPal and Visa for their service?
I don't see the incentive - the community they've built up would have their heads on a spike for duping them & they'll have a hell of a time marketing their way out of that mess. If their blockchain model involved users providing the service's value (renting storage or processing power, rewarding data scientists and analysts for spotting patterns, etc etc) then they've put themselves out of business and etched their names to a global blacklist.

While I agree that its unlikely for these companies to o a u-turn are they not entirely in control of the value of a coin based on their ability to determine the pricing for their services.

Is this often decided upon ahead of an ICO or at what point is this decision made? Even if a decision is made I'm assuming it's something that can be changed down the line?

grindle · 11-03-2018 09:12PM

S.M.B. wrote: »

While I agree that its unlikely for these companies to o a u-turn are they not entirely in control of the value of a coin based on their ability to determine the pricing for their services.

Thery're not in control of the value, no.

The initial value (the ICO price) is just crowdfunding, it has no bearing on what they think their service will cost in terms of a coin.
Buyer's speculate on adoption which drives the price of a coin up but the service will be bought in terms of USD at whatever price that particular token's market dictates (take Siacoin as an example, with storage sellers trying to undercut eachother), with a service costing more or less in terms of a coin depending on the day.
Speculators are betting that enough people will want to use the service so they're grabbing them while they're cheap. This reduces the float on exchanges for service users to buy from, price goes up if the service is good and there's demand for the token, speculator gets to profit if idea is successful.

lifeandtimes · 11-03-2018 09:51PM

grindle wrote: »

Thery're not in control of the value, no.

The initial value (the ICO price) is just crowdfunding, it has no bearing on what they think their service will cost in terms of a coin.
Buyer's speculate on adoption which drives the price of a coin up but the service will be bought in terms of USD at whatever price that particular token's market dictates (take Siacoin as an example, with storage sellers trying to undercut eachother), with a service costing more or less in terms of a coin depending on the day.
Speculators are betting that enough people will want to use the service so they're grabbing them while they're cheap. This reduces the float on exchanges for service users to buy from, price goes up if the service is good and there's demand for the token, speculator gets to profit if idea is successful.

Spot on.

Simpler explanation

People think the company or coin can do well, they buy the coin, less coins available increases the value of the coin vrs what people will sell them for

There's a constant tug of war in exchanges and the buy price is never the same as the sell price

S.M.B. · 11-03-2018 10:40PM

Thanks for the explanations. This may not be the best topic to get into this but it's what confuses me the most about this space.

I had not realised that the services would continue to be priced using FIAT or another stable currency.

My assumption was that these services would be priced and promoted at a fixed cost within their own currency. This is obviously less of an issue with something like Sia where the parent company is simply taking a cut of each successful contract within the marketplace.

I think I need to do a little more work to wrap my head around the differences between a traditional business model and this new wave.

Autochange · 11-03-2018 10:59PM

Anyone had the bottle to be buying this dip?

moneymad · 11-03-2018 11:13PM

Autochange wrote: »

Anyone had the bottle to be buying this dip?

Yes. I'm buying Lumens. What about yourself?

banie01 · 11-03-2018 11:35PM

Autochange wrote: »

Anyone had the bottle to be buying this dip?

Yep bought in on BCH to reduce my cost per coin and same with ETH and ETC

makeorbrake · 12-03-2018 01:31AM

S.M.B. wrote: »

My assumption was that these services would be priced and promoted at a fixed cost within their own currency. This is obviously less of an issue with something like Sia where the parent company is simply taking a cut of each successful contract within the marketplace.

You're not the only one to be confused by this or that feel that it means that the crypto doesn't stand on it's own feet.

However, at this early stage, I see no problem in crypto's being based off of FIAT when it comes to determining the price of a service in crypto. Price discovery has to bed in (i.e. much less volatility) before there can be any shift to simply pricing off of the crypto itself.

Some naysayers suggest this is a failure of the crypto but I don't see it that way.

worded · 12-03-2018 04:05PM

This gets very funny

John Oliver

https://www.theverge.com/tldr/2018/3/12/17108852/john-oliver-explaining-bitcoin-cryptocurrency-blockchain-watch-this

JohnnyFlash · 12-03-2018 10:26PM

40 minute video, but a wonderful overview of Bitconnect, Tether, Tron, altcoins, and the December madness. Well worth a watch.

https://youtu.be/5KXHgh2rTTw

seannash · 13-03-2018 11:06AM

grindle wrote: »

I'm confused as to why or how you think this could happen.
What's the point of building a service with a token economy in mind if they want to drop it's value to zero?
They're going to pivot back towards a trad model, dump blockchain, start accepting PayPal and Visa for their service?
I don't see the incentive - the community they've built up would have their heads on a spike for duping them & they'll have a hell of a time marketing their way out of that mess. If their blockchain model involved users providing the service's value (renting storage or processing power, rewarding data scientists and analysts for spotting patterns, etc etc) then they've put themselves out of business and etched their names to a global blacklist.

I get it but I'm not talking about ditching blockchain technology.
Iota for example doesn't rely on miners to update the blockchain. Any partnerships with Iota will no doubt be paying them in Fiat.
The ICO raised vast amounts of Ethereum and Bitcoin which they no doubt turned into Fiat to pay for the associated bills in starting up a business.

Playing devils advocate here but what do they need the community for. (This is a genuine question, I'd like to know) Yes I know it will do their reputation damage but I'm sure they can and may strike contracts with logistics and Pharma company's that wont be high profile and fly under the radar.

I understand the value in Bitcoin and Litecoin as a means of payment and platforms that rely on miners will give the coin for those value but the ones that have moved passed relying on miners is what I'm curious about

Tinder Surprise · 13-03-2018 11:09AM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

40 minute video, but a wonderful overview of Bitconnect, Tether, Tron, altcoins, and the December madness. Well worth a watch.

https://youtu.be/5KXHgh2rTTw

Jasus now I totally understand why the more experienced folk on here have terrible trouble defending BTC in its current state.

The part about USDT is very concerning and I've a feeling will explode in the very near future.

I'm now totally reassessing my position in the crypto space (not cause of the video as I've had my eyes opened over the past couple of weeks) so gonna see where I stand, or totally change tact.

seannash · 13-03-2018 12:04PM

Tinder Surprise wrote: »

Jasus now I totally understand why the more experienced folk on here have terrible trouble defending BTC in its current state.

The part about USDT is very concerning and I've a feeling will explode in the very near future.

I'm now totally reassessing my position in the crypto space (not cause of the video as I've had my eyes opened over the past couple of weeks) so gonna see where I stand, or totally change tact.

Its a very good watch alright

JohnnyFlash · 13-03-2018 04:03PM

Ya, it really did a good job of explaining a complex subject. The recordings of the Tether/Bitfinex owners is damning - they are pretty much admitting to wholesale fraud. Remove that 2.3 billion of fake liquidity running through the crypto ecosystem, and you’d have to question what is the true value of Bitcoin, and by association, other coins.

The Tron stuff was good as well. Your man is some chancer. Used a chance meeting and photo op with Ma to launch a coin and pump it.

I genuinely was never trying to piss on anyone’s parade around here by being skeptical of the entire space. Or being a jealous ‘nocoiner’. The scamcoins everyone knows about. It’s tbe huge elephants in the room, Tether and Bitfinex, that made me quickly realise the fundamentals are all off in this space. That and the environmental impact of mining.

makeorbrake · 13-03-2018 04:08PM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

The recordings of the Tether/Bitfinex owners is damning - they are pretty much admitting to wholesale fraud. Remove that 2.3 billion of fake liquidity running through the crypto ecosystem, and you’d have to question what is the true value of Bitcoin, and by association, other coins

I didn't get an opportunity to watch that yet. Did it give an indication of when Tether will be properly outed?

I'm risk off on bitcoin until such time as this is dealt with.

banie01 · 13-03-2018 05:02PM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

40 minute video, but a wonderful overview of Bitconnect, Tether, Tron, altcoins, and the December madness. Well worth a watch.

https://youtu.be/5KXHgh2rTTw

Interesting Video!
I have been shouting about TRX for a while as being a scamcoin.
Even posted waller balances when they were "accidentally" giving away free tokens.
The token transfers were being handled in such a way that they appeared as trades/deposits to the exchanges rather than a disguised giveaway.
But I was and am amazed at how quickly a chinese nobody like Justin Sun was suddenly regarded as a technical and financial genius and a lot of my posts on TRX were dismissed as FUD!

The scale of the USDT issue if even partially true is huge!

JohnnyFlash · 13-03-2018 05:03PM

makeorbrake wrote: »

I didn't get an opportunity to watch that yet. Did it give an indication of when Tether will be properly outed?

I'm risk off on bitcoin until such time as this is dealt with.

They didn’t. And maybe Tether has real dollars backing every Tether. But if they don’t then that’s 2.3 billion dollars of fake liquidity being used every day to buy up bitcoin and ether. There’s such a strong correlation between Tether producing their coins and the massive spikes in December.

As a relative outsider looking in I think the whole Tether issue needs to get sorted. And it will probably have to be a Government agency that does it. Which will have some of the more extreme coiners shouting about fud and government interference. It will mean Tether disappears, and the biggest exchange disappears. Binance would also be in serious trouble.

makeorbrake · 13-03-2018 06:12PM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

I think the whole Tether issue needs to get sorted. And it will probably have to be a Government agency that does it. Which will have some of the more extreme coiners shouting about fud and government interference. It will mean Tether disappears, and the biggest exchange disappears. Binance would also be in serious trouble.

Not sure how a government agency is going to get at them though ..with them being based in the BVA...??
However, it couldn't happen soon enough.

Is anyone else starting to become a bit worried? mod note in first post

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