Has rugby become the "people's game"?

TheBoyConor wrote: »

I think it is a ridiculous statement. Rugby tends to be a more middle class sport. This comment is typical of the detached west-brit element in society. It is a statement from an elite for other elite.
At the end of the day rugby is a foreign, imported sport.
The true peoples sport in ireland is GAA. It crosses all socioeconomic boundaries.

but gaa isn't a sport. It's multiple sports. All depends on where you are talking about. In parts of dublin it is but for ten rest of the country the sport isn't at all as you describe.

How is rugby a more middle class sport? All sports bar Hurling, gaelic etc are foreign and imported. Why is that an issue?

bigpink wrote: »

It’s still a majority upper middle class and you know it is.Rugby isn’t strong in working class schools and even thworking class areas of Limerick outside of juniors
CBS and st nessans how they doing at schools rugby?

Nessans(now Thomond Community College) and CBS play rugby a bit but the kids there primarily play in clubs which is a factor why rugby isnt strong there.
And rugby certainly is strong in working class areas of limerick(which are where exactly??) and when you say juniors what are you referring to?

osarusan wrote: »

Not a rugby fan myself, and I grew up in a part of the country that wouldn't have had the slightest interest in rugby - we didn't watch it on TV or play it in schools (either as part of a team or by ourselves). It was hurling and football only.

These days, I can see from some of the people I went to school with that support for the rugby is much more widespread. I think the successes of the national and provincial sides have made it easy (trendy?) to become a supporter. Those successes have really been capitalised on - people I know for 30 years who wouldn't ever have been interested in it, are very enthusiastic followers of the national and provincial side (Munster in our case).

But I don't think that newfound support has really trickled down to lower levels of rugby, and I don't think that it has caused a huge jump in playing numbers either (correct me if I'm wrong).

The term itself, "The people's game" is fairly vague, but if it means the sport that most people play, most people go to see, and most people watch on TV, then I think rugby is still behind football, and even farther behind GAA.

Numbers playing has exploded in many clubs at age grade/kids/youths levels but numbers continuing to adult level hasnt been as big bar in ladies rugby

young munsters man wrote: »

quote from bigpink " It’s still a majority upper middle class and you know it is.Rugby isn’t strong in working class schools and even thworking class areas of Limerick outside of juniors
CBS and st nessans how they doing at schools rugby?""

The 3 of the main rugby schools in limerick crescent ard scoil and munchins all take their kids mainly from locality and aint fee paying
Ard scoil in fact are harty champions have won it good few times and bulk of na piarsaigh team and lot of limirck hurlers went there

Quote from "lost sheep"

"Rugby isn't all upper middle class in limerick. Like I'd love you to walk into munsters, thomond, st Mary's or Shannon, bohs and tell some of their members they're upper middlle class. Thus get some laugh out of it""

well i got some laugh out of it , come to a club game in limerick bigpink -think youll find its very much working class, weve probably made a virtue of it

that said - throughout the county hurling by far the dominant sport (im a hurling fanatic too), soccer in the city, but masive massive iterest in rugby
between rugby soccer and gaa theres a huge crossover of players/fans/coaches between the sports as well

young munster man could you learn to use quote button please?? Makes it far easier to read the posts. the multi quote button is quote bubble at top of the reply to thread screen...

Benedict XVI wrote: »

I know McKenna is not liked around here but he does present some damning statistics to show that rugby, at the highest level in the country, is an elite sport.

Yes you can go down and join you local club, but those that are really at the top of the game in this country are products of fee paying schools.

Now I have no problem with fee paying schools, fair play to any parents who have worked hard enough to be able to pay for their kids to go there.

But within soccer and the GAA any lad can reach the pinnacle of the sport from any background, the statistic show otherwise of rugby.

Here are a few

2014 Ireland v France - 79% of the players in that squad educated in the republic went to fee paying schools
2017 squad for 6 nations - 78%of the players in that squad educated in the republic went to fee paying schools

Leinster panel this season - 39 players that went to schools in the republic, 31 went to fee paying, again 79%

Munster and Leinster academies - 68% and 86% respectively went to fee paying schools

Full article
https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/six-nations/ewan-mackenna-private-schools-and-elite-class-culture-is-why-rugby-will-never-be-embraced-by-country-like-the-gaa-36557141.html

Some of the points McKenna makes are fair and completely right but its the attitude at times is what grates me.
Anyone can make it in rugby as well but its just much harder in rugby. In Soccer and gaelic football and hurling the club game is as big/bigger for age grade games as the schools game in many respects. Kids play both.

Quite a few of those in those lists will have only moved to a fee paying school in senior cycle which can distort those figutres

prawnsambo wrote: »

What he omits, and he may not know this (although I suspect that he should) is that many promising young rugby players are targeted by schools and given scholarships. Obviously that's of benefit to both parties.

For example, Joey Carbery is almost a complete product of Athy Rugby Club (as well as his father tbh) but is attributed to Blackrock because he went there for his last year at school.

Yes and that is ignored and many people see it as bad that the schools committees/provinces have tried put in rulings limiting schools from bringing in kids for senior cycle. Restricting movement like Carbery etc is a good thing and while some kids do move to boarding schools for senior cycle for other reasons often this can be decided by parents before the kid even starts secondary school but all too often a kid that happens to be a good rugby player moves school. There is where i have an issue...

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

This is a cultural thing though, that takes time, no?

For example, in my school during the sixties they weren't allowed to play soccer so had to use a fake name for the team and if the GAA came around they would pretend that no soccer was played in the school. If there was even a suggestion that rugby was played heads would roll.

When I was in school in the 80s and 90s, soccer was openly played but there would be no talk of playing rugby.

Now they have a rugby team. Development cup, and not as popular as football, hurling or soccer, but there are still people in the school who openly play it.

My da is from Limerick so he was always more interested in rugby than soccer. If he wasn't, I probably wouldn't have seen a rugby match until my mid 20s!

As to whether it is a good thing or not, I hate to sound like a fair weather fan, but the fact that Ireland are one of the top teams in the world in a sport is something to be celebrated. The Irish soccer team is alright, but the domestic league is awful. And I think people can get being the rugby provinces in a way that they can't get behind St. Pats or Drogheda.

So yeah you're right it hasn't become a more popular sport. But I think it is heading that way.

No you are not a fair weather fan. You are a fan as much as anyone else. We(all irish people) need to stop knocking some supporters of a team as bandwagoners.
Very good post.

Benedict XVI wrote: »

So what % of the 78% are on scolarship ?

He mentions Carbery, he is only one, tell us the others.

The bigger point is that the fee paying schools are where the "development" happens, and if you want to be guaranteed to be part of that "development" then you can pay for it.

Plenty others. Both at top game and those who never went pro. JJ Hanrahan only moved to Rockwell after he was seen playing for Castleisland in a Munster under 16 club final and offered a scholarship for example.
Unfair to name names but there has been quite a few. fee paying schools are only one part of the process where the "development" happens.

joseywhales wrote: »

There is room to accommodate rugby in winter and gaa in summer for teenagers, they two sports compliment each other in lots of ways. I think this has helped the sport to spread to non traditional areas but it's a long road before we see youths and club teams compete on a party with the top schools teams, when that day comes I think the argument that it could be considered one of "the people's games" will have more merit. It's miles off gaa right now, gaa still completely dominates imo and I think it's a pity it's not an international sport.

There is room to acommodate hurling/gaelic and rugby. There has been youths teams in past compete with schools teams and will again. Maybe not in Leinster with the very top sides but certainly the quarter finalists of cups and certainly most sides in the other provinces.

tabby aspreme wrote: »

There was a video put up on YouTube , 2 days ago regarding the Shane Horgan Cup which may explain how the 22% make it to the leinster team , maybe someone can put up a link to it.

Yeah video is in the youths and another thread.
Shane Horgan and the training and development set up before/after that is part of reason youths numbers at pro level have increased/standards improved but as much because standards within clubs individually are far better than what they were

thebaz wrote: »

I'd say it is very much true - how any average person can relate to a player earning 100k a week is beyond me - as I said I grew up loving football , still do , but the likes of Nenymar and Man City are hardly appealing to the average hard working average man or woman - I certainly can't relate to that amount of money - so for it to be called a game of the people and then saying rugby isnt doesnt make any sense to me- I'd relate a lot more to Johnny Sexton (whom I've met few times) than Neymar lets say.

Look at the numbers making it in pro rugby in Ireland. Look at the schools they went to. Most in Ireland in many areas of the country went to fee paying schools. Likes of Neymar in soccer and countless others world wide they can come from nothing. Far less likely in rugby though that is changing more and more.
Look at guys making it in soccer having came from very poor areas of cities/countries....
There is 50 or so fee paying schools in the country. Take away the all girls schools and you are down to what 35-40 maybe and huge proportion of pro players attended those schools.
That is what people are saying.
Neymar etc earn that money from the support of the game. Tv money, huge attendance at games.
How many people from tallaght, lucan, ballymun etc have played for Ireland in rugby. Soccer is far more a game for the people in that respect than rugby which is what people are saying.