Has rugby become the "people's game"?

The Lost Sheep

Surprised this conversation from last night's Against The Head hasnt been discussed more.

Daire O'Brien claimed that support and interest in rugby now resembles the interest generated by the Jack Charlton era and hurling in the mid-90s despite playing numbers in the sport being considerably less than soccer and gaelic games.

O’Brien said: "Every crevasse of Irish life… everybody goes somewhere to watch the game, everybody has an opinion. Arguably, it’s the people’s game."

Eddie O'Sullivan then talked about who attends games and how that has changed and the provinces are now a lot of peoples club team and clubs are affected quite a bit by that

Bernard Jackman talked about employment of all the development officers and the work theyve put in to bring sport to kids getting access to sport for maybe the first time
https://www.independent.ie/sport/poll-has-rugby-become-the-peoples-game-in-ireland-36675522.html

How many here regularly or even occasionally attend games in their local club?
Numbers playing in youths rugby has increased and in schools but major issues in adult game. Club game has some support but its far from very high and close to the peoples game.

Thoughts?

irishbucsfan

I would say that no, for the most part, it is not. Definitely not.

However in some small pockets of the country it is, and its spreading. Still quite slowly I would say.

jr86

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Daire O'Brien claimed that support and interest in rugby now resembles the interest generated by the Jack Charlton era

Didn't see it last night, but he's absolutely way off with this

Not alone the Jack Charlton era but even recently

I went to see Ireland's six nations decider with France in 2014 in a Galway City centre pub on a fine Saturday evening - most pubs around were busy but not rammed. Ireland's matches with Italy (Wednesday night) and France (Sunday afternoon) at Euro 2016 had queues out the door before kick off from the same pubs.

I'd imagine it was pretty much the same across the country

I still think Rugby overall - while it has grown in mainstream popularity hugely over the last decade - is way off the popularity of soccer in the country

Riskymove

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I would say that no, for the most part, it is not. Definitely not.

i think the viewoing audiences for 6N (when wagon in full force) would equal the viewing of soccer at present given the different levels the teams are at


I mean a Grandlsam effort on Paddys Day in Twickers is going to a massive once off event if it happens

however that does not transfer to Province or Club

and anyways GAA would still beat both I'd say

irishfan9

No.

delta_bravo

No absolutely not. It can be quickly debunked by just looking at the playing populations in comparison with other sports.

Uriel.

delta_bravo wrote: »

No absolutely not. It can be quickly debunked by just looking at the playing populations in comparison with other sports.

To be fair to the panel discussion this is exactly what they were saying.

rizzee

I think it's a matter of supporting ones' country. Not a big rugby fan myself but I do enjoy watching Ireland play and following the Six Nations in particular, as it's usually an excuse to head out! I have absolutely no interest or desire to watch League Rugby. I would also agree that the popularity is slowly growing (maybe with the Six Nations being on) and being a long way behind football.

International Rugby > League of Ireland. But that's another debate.

arsebiscuits1

A good soundbite and steers some deserved credit to those who have developed the grassroots and professional level games.

But "The People's Game" I don't feel it is.

That's not to say it's a failure. I think the IRFU, the Provinces, the Clubs and the fans can be very proud of their sport.

irishbucsfan

delta_bravo wrote: »

No absolutely not. It can be quickly debunked by just looking at the playing populations in comparison with other sports.

Well that makes me question what "People's game" means. Whether its what people watch, or what people play.

delta_bravo

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Well that makes me question what "People's game" means. Whether its what people watch, or what people play.

Up for debate I suppose. Generally soccer gets higher viewership when they get to a decent event however if you look at the 2 sports in terms of who goes to the games you might say Rugby has more women watching the games compared to Soccer based on what I've seen going to see both sports in the Aviva. So you could argue it is more representative of the general population. Could take it either way really

The Lost Sheep

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

A good soundbite and steers some deserved credit to those who have developed the grassroots and professional level games.

But "The People's Game" I don't feel it is.

That's not to say it's a failure. I think the IRFU, the Provinces, the Clubs and the fans can be very proud of their sport.

Yes they can be proud but how many people here regularly or even occasionally attend club games or attend any game that isnt professional?

Dubinusa

Can't believe how few Irish play in the premiership. When I left in 85, there were so many irish in the 1st division. Liverpool, man United and arsenal come to mind. The national team was pretty good. But then again, there's not too many English playing top tier football.

DavyD_83

rizzee wrote: »

I think it's a matter of supporting ones' country. Not a big rugby fan myself but I do enjoy watching Ireland play and following the Six Nations in particular, as it's usually an excuse to head out! I have absolutely no interest or desire to watch League Rugby. I would also agree that the popularity is slowly growing (maybe with the Six Nations being on) and being a long way behind football.

International Rugby > League of Ireland. But that's another debate.

Surely it's more about the bandwagon mentality when the national team is doing well, and the related extra push in media and marketing that comes with it.
I could be wrong, but I somehow doubt yourself, or the nouveau rugby fans have the same interest in the Irish hockey or ultimate Frisbee teams. Both of which I believe do quite well internationally.

Fro the record, I care as little as I always have about all national teams in all sports equally.

The Rape of Lucretia

I think not, and bloody well hope not.

The 'people' have their round ball games. It suits them fine - one, the dullest game immaginable with scores as rare as hen's teeth played by actor-divers, the other, one that in a hundred years hasnt solved its problem of having no real rules and become a jersey pulling, who's the hardest man shoulder bumping contest with not a fraction of skill being required to succeed at it. Both suit the type of people who play it - inner city bowsies supporting and wearing English club shirts despite generally hating everything English, and, country bumpkins for whom it is an extension of 'bragging rights' contesting when not at 3am outside the local town dive 'disco', when it is decided by fists, much as in the game, only its the Gardai rather than a ref looking on helplessly.

But rugby. Well. A genteman's game. Such variety of skills, tactics, teamwork, physiques, providing an endlessly enthralling contest, in a game where the rules work, moments of thrilling skill, speed, and quick thinking to take the breath away, and the best team generally wins. And played the by right sort of chaps of course.

We like it just as it is thank you very much. Hopefully it never becomes 'the peoples game'.

The Lost Sheep

Dubinusa wrote: »

Can't believe how few Irish play in the premiership. When I left in 85, there were so many irish in the 1st division. Liverpool, man United and arsenal come to mind. The national team was pretty good. But then again, there's not too many English playing top tier football.

But as you say there is far less english playing top tier in england. Premiership has changed everything.

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

I think not, and bloody well hope not.

The 'people' have their round ball games. It suits them fine - one, the dullest game immaginable with scores as rare as hen's teeth played by actor-divers, the other, one that in a hundred years hasnt solved its problem of having no real rules and become a jersey pulling, who's the hardest man shoulder bumping contest with not a fraction of skill being required to succeed at it. Both suit the type of people who play it - inner city bowsies supporting and wearing English club shirts despite generally hating everything English, and, country bumpkins for whom it is an extension of 'bragging rights' contesting when not at 3am outside the local town dive 'disco', when it is decided by fists, much as in the game, only its the Gardai rather than a ref looking on helplessly.

But rugby. Well. A genteman's game. Such variety of skills, tactics, teamwork, physiques, providing an endlessly enthralling contest, in a game where the rules work, moments of thrilling skill, speed, and quick thinking to take the breath away, and the best team generally wins. And played the by right sort of chaps of course.

We like it just as it is thank you very much. Hopefully it never becomes 'the peoples game'.

Surprised you havent caught anyone yet....

Joe prim

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

I think not, and bloody well hope not.

The 'people' have their round ball games. It suits them fine - one, the dullest game immaginable with scores as rare as hen's teeth played by actor-divers, the other, one that in a hundred years hasnt solved its problem of having no real rules and become a jersey pulling, who's the hardest man shoulder bumping contest with not a fraction of skill being required to succeed at it. Both suit the type of people who play it - inner city bowsies supporting and wearing English club shirts despite generally hating everything English, and, country bumpkins for whom it is an extension of 'bragging rights' contesting when not at 3am outside the local town dive 'disco', when it is decided by fists, much as in the game, only its the Gardai rather than a ref looking on helplessly.

But rugby. Well. A genteman's game. Such variety of skills, tactics, teamwork, physiques, providing an endlessly enthralling contest, in a game where the rules work, moments of thrilling skill, speed, and quick thinking to take the breath away, and the best team generally wins. And played the by right sort of chaps of course.

We like it just as it is thank you very much. Hopefully it never becomes 'the peoples game'.

You are either Charles O.Carroll-Kelly or George Hook, and I claim my fiver!

dmn22

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

I think not, and bloody well hope not.

The 'people' have their round ball games. It suits them fine - one, the dullest game immaginable with scores as rare as hen's teeth played by actor-divers, the other, one that in a hundred years hasnt solved its problem of having no real rules and become a jersey pulling, who's the hardest man shoulder bumping contest with not a fraction of skill being required to succeed at it. Both suit the type of people who play it - inner city bowsies supporting and wearing English club shirts despite generally hating everything English, and, country bumpkins for whom it is an extension of 'bragging rights' contesting when not at 3am outside the local town dive 'disco', when it is decided by fists, much as in the game, only its the Gardai rather than a ref looking on helplessly.

But rugby. Well. A genteman's game. Such variety of skills, tactics, teamwork, physiques, providing an endlessly enthralling contest, in a game where the rules work, moments of thrilling skill, speed, and quick thinking to take the breath away, and the best team generally wins. And played the by right sort of chaps of course.

We like it just as it is thank you very much. Hopefully it never becomes 'the peoples game'.

:rolleyes: i wonder where people get the idea rugby is for classist, pretentious snobs with such an unbiased opinion as the one above

prawnsambo

Joe prim wrote: »

You are either Charles O.Carroll-Kelly or George Hook, and I claim my fiver!

dmn22 wrote: »

:rolleyes: i wonder where people get the idea rugby is for classist, pretentious snobs with such an unbiased opinion as the one above

Another couple of notches on TRoL's gunbelt.

CatFromHue

I would have said no outright but when you look at the TV viewership numbers for 2015 and 2016 football is ahead but not by a huge amount. 2015 had the RWC and 2016 had Euro 2016 so you can compare big tournament games for both sports.

[url][/url]

Neil3030

All Ireland finals draw less than a World Cup pools match. Rugby >> GAA - proven irrefutably. :pac:

CatFromHue

GAA would beat rugby hands down for playing numbers etc but NFL in America is largely a watched as opposed to played game.

So who knows.

The Lost Sheep

CatFromHue wrote: »

GAA would beat rugby hands down for playing numbers etc but NFL in America is largely a watched as opposed to played game.

So who knows.

There's a lot of people here that follow rugby that are quite like NFL players/supporters in that they played in high school/college then just become supporters and dont play anything bar maybe tag/flag football.

grass_cutter

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

I think not, and bloody well hope not.

The 'people' have their round ball games. It suits them fine - one, the dullest game immaginable with scores as rare as hen's teeth played by actor-divers, the other, one that in a hundred years hasnt solved its problem of having no real rules and become a jersey pulling, who's the hardest man shoulder bumping contest with not a fraction of skill being required to succeed at it. Both suit the type of people who play it - inner city bowsies supporting and wearing English club shirts despite generally hating everything English, and, country bumpkins for whom it is an extension of 'bragging rights' contesting when not at 3am outside the local town dive 'disco', when it is decided by fists, much as in the game, only its the Gardai rather than a ref looking on helplessly.

But rugby. Well. A genteman's game. Such variety of skills, tactics, teamwork, physiques, providing an endlessly enthralling contest, in a game where the rules work, moments of thrilling skill, speed, and quick thinking to take the breath away, and the best team generally wins. And played the by right sort of chaps of course.

We like it just as it is thank you very much. Hopefully it never becomes 'the peoples game'.

funny cause its true


rugby is more a lifestyle , a statement about where you come from ( and where you hope to go ) than a sport and i dont mean to sound cynical or sarcastic when i say that , i didnt grow up in rugby country but i lived and worked in new zealand for a good while so know a bit about it , now rugby is the peoples game in new zealand but bar it and wales , its not the peoples game anywhere else

thats ok by the way

grass_cutter

CatFromHue wrote: »

GAA would beat rugby hands down for playing numbers etc but NFL in America is largely a watched as opposed to played game.

So who knows.

at organised level , GAA beats soccer out the gate too , a kick about with eight guys behind a supermarket is sometimes counted as playing soccer , when i was a kid we always always played soccer at break time in school but i never played organised soccer , i played organised gaa from i was nine

.ak

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

I think not, and bloody well hope not.

The 'people' have their round ball games. It suits them fine - one, the dullest game immaginable with scores as rare as hen's teeth played by actor-divers, the other, one that in a hundred years hasnt solved its problem of having no real rules and become a jersey pulling, who's the hardest man shoulder bumping contest with not a fraction of skill being required to succeed at it. Both suit the type of people who play it - inner city bowsies supporting and wearing English club shirts despite generally hating everything English, and, country bumpkins for whom it is an extension of 'bragging rights' contesting when not at 3am outside the local town dive 'disco', when it is decided by fists, much as in the game, only its the Gardai rather than a ref looking on helplessly.

But rugby. Well. A genteman's game. Such variety of skills, tactics, teamwork, physiques, providing an endlessly enthralling contest, in a game where the rules work, moments of thrilling skill, speed, and quick thinking to take the breath away, and the best team generally wins. And played the by right sort of chaps of course.

We like it just as it is thank you very much. Hopefully it never becomes 'the peoples game'.

Obvious troll is obvious.

Squidgy Black

rizzee wrote: »

International Rugby > League of Ireland. But that's another debate.

You can't compare a professional sport to a semi-pro/amateur league. Fairer comparison would be AIL to the LOI.

I think rugby has taken leaps and bounds in Ireland in becoming more popular throughout the country but it's definitely nowhere near soccer levels, but viewing wise it's increased greatly over the past 10 years or so. Hasn't been reflected in playing numbers though.

The Lost Sheep

Squidgy Black wrote: »

You can't compare a professional sport to a semi-pro/amateur league. Fairer comparison would be AIL to the LOI.

I think rugby has taken leaps and bounds in Ireland in becoming more popular throughout the country but it's definitely nowhere near soccer levels, but viewing wise it's increased greatly over the past 10 years or so. Hasn't been reflected in playing numbers though.

It has in playing numbers of kids/teenagers but not in the adult game.

wicklowwonder

CatFromHue wrote: »

I would have said no outright but when you look at the TV viewership numbers for 2015 and 2016 football is ahead but not by a huge amount. 2015 had the RWC and 2016 had Euro 2016 so you can compare big tournament games for both sports.

[url][/url]

But yet 2017 GAA and football rule the roost.

https://www.rte.ie/entertainment/2018/0109/932142-rte-had-top-20-most-viewed-tv-shows-in-ireland-in-2017/

Thing is looking over last 10 years is probably a better reflection, GAA All-Ireland Finals are the only constant with one if not both hurling and football finals year on year almost always in top 5 most viewed shows. The other sports rise and fall depending on the success of the team (band wagon).

This year I imagine GAA will be huge. New structures will see the top teams on TV more often v each other, and the novelty factor in both codes. No ireland in the World Cup in football. Rugby will be interesting, will people make the switch to TV3 on Patrick’s Day if it is Grand Slam decider? Will the casual fan tune in or will family events take over?

The figures for TV3 wouldn’t be fantastic so far for the “people’s sport” with 647k watching ireland v wales and with 571,500 wacthing Ireland v france. Both down on last years figures on RTE, both games pulled in over 800k viewers last year.

The 6 Nations is probably also a fairer reflection versus GAA All-Ireland finals as they occur year on year and not a once in every 4 year cycle.

Soccer is still a huge pull factor but it is massively dependent on the success of the international team.

riffmongous

God I almost forgot the clubs even existed. Do they ever get any nationwide attention anymore? I remember years ago you'd see the results on the aertel and the odd clip on tv

Jimbob1977

When Ireland are playing in an international soccer competition, there are flags on houses, the streets become quieter at kickoff time and it's a huge topic of conversation everywhere.

You just don't see it with rugby. People watch the matches, but there is no blanket enthusiasm.

And unfortunately GAA has no international outlet, apart from that made-up Compromise Rules.

Soccer and GAA are miles bigger than rugby

thebaz

i grew up in Dublin playing and loving both soccer and rugby - soccer always seamed more the peoples game in Dublin , but seamed different in Munster - think its changing now with leinster support not just the D4 brigade - the Irish national soccer team has been muck since 2002 , whilst the rugby team has bloomed with all the golden generations - people like winners , and rugby is watched by many more than when i grew up and called posh by my soccer playing mates. Support in Connacht seams a lot bigger too these days - I remember in the 90s when a few hundred would watch an inter-pro , 10 years later they were selling out Croke park.

Benedict XVI

In the context of the discussion about whether this team is the new Jack's Army then I certainly think not.

I was lucky enough to be in my late teens/early twenties during the height of it between Euro '88 and USA '94 and I don't think we will see it's like again, not even from international soccer.

Euro 2012 and Euro 2016 had none of the appeal of the former tournaments for me, but maybe that's because I'm older now.

But overall I think rugby will never be the "peopels game" because widespread/general interest is still non existent in large areas of the country.
Places like the western seaboard, the midlands and south east that would traditionally be seen as GAA strongholds have had soccer followers for decades, Man Utd fans for the '60s, Liverpool fans from the '70s, Leeds and Forest fans from the '70s.
Soccer, and in particular English soccer has been reaching more of the country for so much longer than rugby.

The emergence of professionalism has given rugby a higher profile, but when you look at it it's still centered around the traditional strongholds of Belfast, Dublin, Limerick city and Cork city.

Connacht has made progress but it's still small interest when you see the numbers in that area interested in GAA and soccer.

Benedict XVI

By the way there was a discussion about whether rugby was taking over from on Off The Ball in Feb/Mar 2007.

It was a time when ROI under Stand where struggling to beat San Marino and the Ireland rugby team were going for a grand slam.

I'll try dig up the audio if it's still out there.

southstar

Rugby has grown hugely in popularity but primarily as a spectator sport and mostly for the international offering... The players themselves also seem to be quite grounded and approachable..and live here... but It also demonstrates how sports mad we seem to be in this country... a wider range of interest(in general) than in many other countries I'd suggest.

Sanjuro

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Daire O'Brien claimed that support and interest in rugby now resembles the interest generated by the Jack Charlton era and hurling in the mid-90s

Bollocks. I remember my auld fella driving us back from watching Ireland beat Romania in World Cup 90 and having to drive incredibly slowly due to the people in the streets. And I'm not talking about Dublin city centre. This was along the N11, a dual carriageway. I cant see rugby getting as big as the fever running through the country at that time.

Benedict XVI

Sanjuro wrote: »

Bollocks. I remember my auld fella driving us back from watching Ireland beat Romania in World Cup 90 and having to drive incredibly slowly due to the people in the streets. And I'm not talking about Dublin city centre. This was along the N11, a dual carriageway. I cant see rugby getting as big as the fever running through the country at that time.

There will never be another Italia '90, even in soccer, that was a once in a lifetime.

prawnsambo

Against The Head looking for filler material after a weekend with no rugby matches. Are we actually wasting a thread on this?

Jerichoholic

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

I think not, and bloody well hope not.

The 'people' have their round ball games. It suits them fine - one, the dullest game immaginable with scores as rare as hen's teeth played by actor-divers, the other, one that in a hundred years hasnt solved its problem of having no real rules and become a jersey pulling, who's the hardest man shoulder bumping contest with not a fraction of skill being required to succeed at it. Both suit the type of people who play it - inner city bowsies supporting and wearing English club shirts despite generally hating everything English, and, country bumpkins for whom it is an extension of 'bragging rights' contesting when not at 3am outside the local town dive 'disco', when it is decided by fists, much as in the game, only its the Gardai rather than a ref looking on helplessly.

But rugby. Well. A genteman's game. Such variety of skills, tactics, teamwork, physiques, providing an endlessly enthralling contest, in a game where the rules work, moments of thrilling skill, speed, and quick thinking to take the breath away, and the best team generally wins. And played the by right sort of chaps of course.

We like it just as it is thank you very much. Hopefully it never becomes 'the peoples game'.

The state of this.

Jerichoholic

grass_cutter wrote: »

at organised level , GAA beats soccer out the gate too , a kick about with eight guys behind a supermarket is sometimes counted as playing soccer , when i was a kid we always always played soccer at break time in school but i never played organised soccer , i played organised gaa from i was nine

That's because the GAA wouldn't allow you to. That's why the Irish soccer team are awful, GAA makes the youngsters choose between the two and soccer is looked down on.

Downlinz

I would say it is in the majority of the country although it still seems to have a class element associated with it in Dublin.

The Lost Sheep

riffmongous wrote: »

God I almost forgot the clubs even existed. Do they ever get any nationwide attention anymore? I remember years ago you'd see the results on the aertel and the odd clip on tv

They get some attention but not much. Some local papers are good for coverage but a lot from IRFU is done on social media.
Though many here say IRFU need to do more for profile of club game. The clubs dont help themselves. They could be far better at promotion both in the traditional form and online in digital marketing.
Like as ive said in my own club about promotion even at a basic level. For all big hurling games in my local paper there is 3 reports of the same match in the paper. 1 written by the newspapers journalist(s). Then each club will report on the game in their own notes. My clubs first team will get a good report on their games but other than that in general the coverage is poor though saying that this season we've a very strong under18 team who are getting a lot of good coverage in our local media.

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

When Ireland are playing in an international soccer competition, there are flags on houses, the streets become quieter at kickoff time and it's a huge topic of conversation everywhere.

You just don't see it with rugby. People watch the matches, but there is no blanket enthusiasm.

And unfortunately GAA has no international outlet, apart from that made-up Compromise Rules.

Soccer and GAA are miles bigger than rugby

Its quite different with some of the rugby because we have the 6 nations every year and we're always in a world cup. Soccer can build up to the world cup/euro's with a build up thats completely different to what occurs in rugby.

thebaz wrote: »

i grew up in Dublin playing and loving both soccer and rugby - soccer always seamed more the peoples game in Dublin, but seamed different in Munster - think its changing now with leinster support not just the D4 brigade - the Irish national soccer team has been muck since 2002 , whilst the rugby team has bloomed with all the golden generations - people like winners , and rugby is watched by many more than when i grew up and called posh by my soccer playing mates. Support in Connacht seams a lot bigger too these days - I remember in the 90s when a few hundred would watch an inter-pro , 10 years later they were selling out Croke park.

But for all the golden generation by and large huge proportion were still from the same background as those before but they just were successful. People do like winners but when it can be more difficult to feel a connection to players then continuing support in game is difficult.

bobbysands81

Rugby is the ABC1’s game, it’s definitely not the game of the people.

Utterly ludicrous claim based in fantasy.

Losty Dublin

Until the playing numbers get back up again at grassroots, rugby can't compare itself to GAA or Soccer. There is a critical problem in getting adults out to play the sport that the modern exposure of rugby to the general public is masking and masking very well. Indeed, even the AIL would be close to dead were it not for the academy structures using it as a platform for young players to learn the game away from the training field.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Jerichoholic wrote: »

The state of this.

He’s true to his acronym for sure.

Well written trolling, I’ll give it that.

Didactic Ninja

team of "them"

Jerichoholic

Rugby will never get any bigger until it removes 'Ireland's Call'. People can't expect to stick around to watch a game after cringing so hard at that at for every Irish game.

kuang1

Now what could I say to expediate the closure of this thread...

awec

Discussion of anthems is against the forum charter.

The Lost Sheep

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Until the playing numbers get back up again at grassroots, rugby can't compare itself to GAA or Soccer. There is a critical problem in getting adults out to play the sport that the modern exposure of rugby to the general public is masking and masking very well. Indeed, even the AIL would be close to dead were it not for the academy structures using it as a platform for young players to learn the game away from the training field.

the ail wouldnt be dead if academy players stopped playing in it

bigpink

Middle class status game I’d say