Harvey Weinstein and #MeToo/sexual misconduct scandals

pixelburp · 04-02-2018 12:39PM

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

Feels like the males of this world are hitting back by sacking as many females as possible. Getting rid of every girl that works as eye candy for sports events so on. This is how males are pushing back I feel.
'' Women are not eye candy, fine, we'll show you and sack them all '' Have to feel sorry for those women caught up in it.
What's next, sack the 1000's of cheerleaders.

Are they? Cos the only example I can think of is the recent decision to stop using so-called 'pit girls' in Formula 1 racing. TBH, the prevailing trend has been companies, institutions and media orgs trying to address gender imbalances and representation. I don't think F1 though is suddenly the lesser for not having jobbing models standing around the pitlane; TBH if a spot relies on tits & ass for distraction, maybe the sport itself needs some work

Sure they might be there for glamour or whatever, it's not my thing, but it shouldn't be a particularly complex stretch of willpower and behaviour to NOT behave like a handsy pervert around these models. I don't like to play the whole "innocent have nothing to fear" card as it tends to be used by those on a witch-hunt, but 99% of us can interact with women in a professional environment without worrying about criminal charges, or having to consciously stop ourselves from treating women like a conquest. It makes you wonder what HAS gone on with these pitgirls, that F1 are suddenly dropping them. It's an industry, like Hollywood, that has its own fair share of an accepted - even celebrated - hedonistic norm.

Unearthly · 04-02-2018 03:09PM

I see Gary Oldmans ex wife accusing him of sorts. Enough to derail oscar chances?

Sad Professor · 04-02-2018 03:43PM

Unearthly wrote: »

I see Gary Oldmans ex wife accusing him of sorts. Enough to derail oscar chances?

No, old story. She lost custody of a child in another marriage as well (Fincher). She's not considered credible. Oldman is definitely vulnerable, but the tabloids will have to dig up something new on him.

BorneTobyWilde · 04-02-2018 04:13PM

pixelburp wrote: »

Are they? Cos the only example I can think of is the recent decision to stop using so-called 'pit girls' in Formula 1 racing. TBH, the prevailing trend has been companies, institutions and media orgs trying to address gender imbalances and representation. I don't think F1 though is suddenly the lesser for not having jobbing models standing around the pitlane; TBH if a spot relies on tits & ass for distraction, maybe the sport itself needs some work

Sure they might be there for glamour or whatever, it's not my thing, but it shouldn't be a particularly complex stretch of willpower and behaviour to NOT behave like a handsy pervert around these models. I don't like to play the whole "innocent have nothing to fear" card as it tends to be used by those on a witch-hunt, but 99% of us can interact with women in a professional environment without worrying about criminal charges, or having to consciously stop ourselves from treating women like a conquest. It makes you wonder what HAS gone on with these pitgirls, that F1 are suddenly dropping them. It's an industry, like Hollywood, that has its own fair share of an accepted - even celebrated - hedonistic norm.

Darts also sacked all the walk on girls, boxing looking to do same with ring girls.

JP Liz V1 · 05-02-2018 01:42AM

Unearthly wrote: »

I see Gary Oldmans ex wife accusing him of sorts. Enough to derail oscar chances?

Which one?

Sad Professor · 06-02-2018 10:17AM

Lengthy q&a interview with Tarantino in which he addresses Uma’s crash, what was left out of Dowd’s terrible nytimes piece, and (bizarrely) why he had to be the one to spit in Uma’s face and strangle her on the set of Kill Bill. In spite of everything he says they are still the best of friends.

http://deadline.com/2018/02/quentin-tarantino-uma-thurman-harvey-weinstein-kill-bill-car-crash-new-york-times-1202278988/

Agent Coulson · 18-02-2018 08:25PM

I can take or leave Bill Maher depending on my mood and his mood.

This did make me giggle though.

Psychologists have to explain how in the age of Metoo the number 1 movie in America is about a woman on a leash.

Hollywood rom-coms, which, he said, have three basic plots: she married her boss, stalking is romantic and “I hate you and then I love you.”

Men made most of these movies, but women bought most of the tickets.

Agent Coulson · 23-02-2018 09:51PM

Brendan Fraser says his career suffered after allegedly being sexually assaulted by Hollywood exec
He accuses former Hollywood Foreign Press Association boss of groping.

The Mummy's Brendan Fraser has come forward with accusations that his career suffered after he was allegedly sexually assaulted by a top Hollywood executive.

The 49-year-old was at one time one of Hollywood's biggest stars after racking up leading roles in Disney's George of the Jungle, Encino Man and the original Mummy trilogy.

However, Fraser says he retreated from public life after an altercation at a 2003 luncheon thrown by Golden Globe organisers the Hollywood Foreign Press Association (HFPA).

In a new GQ profile, Fraser relays that he was pulled aside at this event by former HFPA president Philip Berk and was groped on the buttocks by Berk when he offered to shake hands.

"His left hand reaches around, grabs my ass cheek, and one of his fingers touches me in the taint," the actor alleged. "And he starts moving it around… I felt ill. I felt like a little kid. I felt like there was a ball in my throat. I thought I was going to cry."

Fraser acknowledges that he left the event without telling a nearby police officer about the alleged assault, and ultimately chose not to go public at the time because he didn't want the accusations to become "part of [his] narrative".

The actor said that the alleged encounter "made [him] retreat" from the spotlight, although he also contends that major offers from Hollywood studios suddenly weren't as forthcoming either.

"I don't know if this curried disfavour with the group, with the HFPA. But the silence was deafening," he remembered.

Berk has called Fraser's claims "a total fabrication", while acknowledging that he'd written the actor an apology letter that stopped short of accepting any blame.

"My apology admitted no wrongdoing, the usual 'If I've done anything that upset Mr. Fraser, it was not intended and I apologise'," the former HFPA boss said.

http://www.digitalspy.com/showbiz/news/a850682/brendan-fraser-accuses-hfpa-president-of-sexual-assault/

Ralf and Florian · 05-03-2018 08:36AM

Not a name most people will be familiar with but this guy appears to be the classical music worlds version of Weinstein/Spacey.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2018/03/02/cleveland/cn2Sathz0EMJcdpYouoPjM/story.html?s_camp=bostonglobe%3Asocial%3Asharetools%3Afacebook

JP Liz V1 · 05-03-2018 05:00PM

Unearthly wrote: »

I see Gary Oldmans ex wife accusing him of sorts. Enough to derail oscar chances?

He won the Oscar but some unhappy that he and also Kobe Bryant won this year

13-04-2018 01:54PM

Calls today to end hotel room auditions, which makes sense

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-43751796

But really I'm just posting that because I think all of this sexual harassment stuff could of been stopped in its tracks years ago with the proper education at grass roots:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQnNH7I07RY

dark crystal · 03-05-2018 11:32PM

Bill Cosby and Roman Polanski have both been expelled from the The Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences:

https://www.independent.ie/entertainment/movies/bill-cosby-and-roman-polanski-expelled-by-oscars-academy-36871465.html

Surprised it took them this long to expel Polanski and even more surprised Cosby was a member in the first place

Agent Coulson · 09-06-2018 11:28AM

John Lasseter quits Disney over sexual harassment complaints

http://www.thejournal.ie/pixar-lasseter-4061506-Jun2018/

JP Liz V1 · 14-07-2018 10:21PM

Henry Cavill in trouble now for his comment

Sad Professor · 15-07-2018 02:09PM

In other news, here's David Thompson implying that Vertigo deserves to lose its place at the top of the S&S top 250 poll for not complying with #MeToo values.

https://www.lrb.co.uk/v40/n12/david-thomson/diary

He says he didn't vote for Vertigo last time and never really cared for it. But guess what - he did vote for (Vertigo-inspired) Blue Velvet, which unlike Vertigo many people took issue with for its treatment of women at the time, no revisionism required. Yet strangely enough he never mentions Blue Velvet. Presumedly because his issue is more with Hitchcock than the film and because Lynch (thus far anyway) hasn't been demonised as a sexual predator.

MrStuffins · 15-07-2018 08:20PM

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Henry Cavill in trouble now for his comment

I find this one weird. So, essentially he's saying he has to watch his step these days just in case the "extreme left" over react and he gets in trouble.

In saying this, the "extreme left" have over reacted and he's gotten into trouble

Fysh · 15-07-2018 10:24PM

MrStuffins wrote: »

I find this one weird. So, essentially he's saying he has to watch his step these days just in case the "extreme left" over react and he gets in trouble.

In saying this, the "extreme left" have over reacted and he's gotten into trouble

To be fair, even being generous to him he was letting his arse do the thinking when he said this bit in particular:

Henry Cavill wrote:

Now? Now you really can’t pursue someone further than, ‘No’. It’s like, ‘OK, cool’.

The idea that "no means no" is hardly new, and surely he's not so old that he can't learn new ways of interacting with people. And, well, if part of being a handsome well-paid high-profile actor is that suddenly he has to police how he presents himself and all the ways in which what he says and does could be misinterpreted by someone to cause him harm... Well, from what I've read (and been told by women I know) that's something a lot of women just have to do as part of normal life. Perhaps he can use this insight to relate to them as people and go from there instead of lamenting the passing of the days when he could ignore what someone was saying to him because it wasn't what he wanted to hear.

Penn · 16-07-2018 09:18AM

MrStuffins wrote: »

I find this one weird. So, essentially he's saying he has to watch his step these days just in case the "extreme left" over react and he gets in trouble.

In saying this, the "extreme left" have over reacted and he's gotten into trouble

That's the thing though, he wasn't saying he has to watch his step in case "the extreme left" over-react, he was insinuating that he has to watch his step in case a woman he tries flirting with falsely accuses him of harassment or worse, and somewhat lamenting that a woman saying "No" should now be considered to be "No".

“It’s very difficult to do that if there are certain rules in place. Because then it’s like: ‘Well, I don’t want to go up and talk to her, because I’m going to be called a rapist or something’. So you’re like, ‘Forget it, I’m going to call an ex-girlfriend instead, and then just go back to a relationship, which never really worked’. But it’s way safer than casting myself into the fires of hell because I’m someone in the public eye, and if I go and flirt with someone, then who knows what’s going to happen?

“Now? Now you really can’t pursue someone further than, ‘No’. It’s like, ‘OK, cool’. But then there’s the, ‘Oh why’d you give up?’ And it’s like, ‘Well, because I didn’t want to go to jail?’”

pixelburp · 16-07-2018 09:42AM

Ergh. I dunno, Cavill's wording does make him come off a little like one of those 'pick up artists', I can see why people reacted strongly to his words. His language is coded with slightly aggressive language:

"There’s something wonderful about a man chasing a woman … I think a woman should be wooed and chased, but maybe I’m old-fashioned for thinking that."

"Now? Now you really can’t pursue someone further than, 'No'. It’s like, 'OK, cool'. But then there’s the, 'Oh why’d you give up?' And it’s like, ‘Well, because I didn’t want to go to jail?’"

Can't speak for anyone else, but when I've been told "No", I just beetled off, maybe a bit embarrassed at sticking my neck out. I didn't think to myself "challenge accepted", or presume that my flirting was so on point the woman was just playing hard to get. Cavill's remarks do read very like the kind of typical low-grade harassment women find themselves putting up with when going out.

Sad Professor · 16-07-2018 10:16AM

I don't care about Cavill or the fact that he can't pull as many women as he used to and I thought he came across as an assh*le in that interview.

That said, I assume what he was trying to say was that in a culture where "believe all women" is increasingly the mantra, then a public figure like him has to be extremely careful despite the fact that the old rules of courtship (man approaches woman etc) still largely apply.

However, what Cavill actually did was imply he was nostalgic for a time when a woman saying "no" wouldn't result in a man being accused of rape, inadvertently suggesting he's opposed to old anti-rape slogans that define consent in a negative sense, which #MeToo is waaay beyond.

Cavill's comments would have been controversial either way, but he expressed views more consistent with the 1950s. Boneheaded comments like that make the #Metoo crowd look reasonable.

PlaneSpeeking · 16-07-2018 10:33AM

Sad Professor wrote: »

I don't care about Cavill or the fact that he can't pull as many women as he used to and I thought he came across as an assh*le in that interview.

That said, I assume what he was trying to say was that in a culture where "believe all women" is increasingly the mantra, then a public figure like him has to be extremely careful despite the fact that the old rules of courtship (man approaches woman etc) still largely apply.

However, what Cavill actually did was imply he was nostalgic for a time when a woman saying "no" wouldn't result in a man being accused of rape, inadvertently suggesting he's opposed to old anti-rape slogans that define consent in a negative sense, which #MeToo is waaay beyond.

Cavill's comments would have been controversial either way, but he expressed views more consistent with the 1950s. Boneheaded comments like that make the #Metoo crowd look reasonable.

Could not agree less.

I work with a lot of women who are basically complaining that all they get hitting on them are wimpy men - they want a "challenge". One said "I want a man to be rejected and win me round". She's not alone in that.

Look at the end to The Graduate - Dustin Hoffman would have been hashtagged to death for daring to presume the bride didn't know her own mind.

When Harry Met Sally - he stops her leaving the party at the end, despite her protests. So what ? It's a lovely story.

There are many more examples in Hollywood. If we stop making films because Rose bloody McGowan **** Weinstein in a hot tub for a part and then found her talent didn't stretch beyond that one role, we might as well give up.

StringerBell · 16-07-2018 10:48AM

No means no, but there is an old thing of wooing a woman who at first is not that interested in you with gestures or whatever, I think he's more getting at that is no longer a thing anymore and it being remembered as a romantic thing people seemed to have to do, not to pressure and force someone to do something they don't want to but to essentially change their mind about how they see you through your charm etc

I know in our family we one of my grandads brothers and his wife live to tell their favorite story of how they got together, how he kept asking her out and she kept saying no but that he knew she was the one so kept coming back with flowers chocolates poems etc and eventually she agreed to go on a date with him and the rest is history as they say. They have been married for 52 years at this stage, still date going to the beach together in the summer, getting a bag of chips and going for picnics, all that kind of stuff.

To us it's a romantic story, it is a romantic story of how his determination to prove his worth to her won the day but I'd imagine that today it would be viewed very differently and it is a shame that we are losing certain things from society. I support the metoo movement in principle, I think abusers should be dragged into the light and punished for the vile creatures they are.

Wooing/sweeping someone off their feet etc is a different thing for most people and it is a shame to lose that.

16-07-2018 10:51AM

PlaneSpeeking wrote:

There are many more examples in Hollywood. If we stop making films because Rose bloody McGowan **** Weinstein in a hot tub for a part and then found her talent didn't stretch beyond that one role, we might as well give up.

Yes, how awful that we may not see some ****ty rom coms and it is all because that woman was raped by a serial rapist. Clearly Weinstein is innocent and all those women are liars who just wanted to be famous.

I think that people like you are as bad as Weinstein, I hate McGowan but to say that she is making this up is just nonsense. Is it any wonder women don't report when they are judged by backwards members of the public like this.

Do you think the dozens of other women are just doing it for a little publicity too? Maybe you should crowd fund some money for this poor man that women have ganged up on.

PlaneSpeeking · 16-07-2018 11:15AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, how awful that we may not see some ****ty rom coms and it is all because that woman was raped by a serial rapist. Clearly Weinstein is innocent and all those women are liars who just wanted to be famous.

I think that people like you are as bad as Weinstein, I hate McGowan but to say that she is making this up is just nonsense. Is it any wonder women don't report when they are judged by backwards members of the public like this.

Do you think the dozens of other women are just doing it for a little publicity too? Maybe you should crowd fund some money for this poor man that women have ganged up on.

Did he force her into the tub ? No.
Did he force her to perform the act she did ? No.
Did she have the talent to make it as an actress any other way ? No.
Has she got a new career out of this ? Yes - slacktivism on Twitter needs no talent
Is Weinstein a scumbag ? Probably
Is he a rapist ? I'll tell you after he has been convicted of such - if he is. Remember due process ?

p to the e · 16-07-2018 11:17AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes, how awful that we may not see some ****ty rom coms and it is all because that woman was raped by a serial rapist. Clearly Weinstein is innocent and all those women are liars who just wanted to be famous.

I think that people like you are as bad as Weinstein, I hate McGowan but to say that she is making this up is just nonsense. Is it any wonder women don't report when they are judged by backwards members of the public like this.

Do you think the dozens of other women are just doing it for a little publicity too? Maybe you should crowd fund some money for this poor man that women have ganged up on.

There's a difference between a serial rapist and a sleazebag who used his position of power to get consenting women into bed.

PlaneSpeeking · 16-07-2018 11:20AM

p to the e wrote: »

There's a difference between a serial rapist and a sleazebag who used his position of power to get consenting women into bed.

Quite right - but not to the MeToo/TimesUp/I Allege I had My *** Grabbed 40 Years Ago - Pity Me Like A Balkan Rape Camp Victim or a Fritzl Child.

I'll call Weinstein a rapist IF he is convicted in a court of rape.

16-07-2018 11:27AM

PlaneSpeeking wrote:

Did he force her into the tub ? No. Did he force her to perform the act she did ? No. Did she have the talent to make it as an actress any other way ? No. Has she got a new career out of this ? Yes - slacktivism on Twitter needs no talent Is Weinstein a scumbag ? Probably Is he a rapist ? I'll tell you after he has been convicted of such - if he is. Remember due process ?

A small frail women and a large over bearing man with a history of violent outbreaks. Hmm, not sure she's winning that one but go right ahead and tell us all how Weinstein is just a poor man torn apart by vengeful women. You can dress it up any way you want but Weinstein is a rapist, there are too many accounts with similar MOs to even doubt it. As for will he be convicted,well he may not be but that doesn't men that he isn't guilty.

Saying you think McGowan is lying because she hasn't the talent to make it as an actress is bull****. Plenty of very successful and talentless people male it all the time. McGowan starred in a huge TV show and never has to work again, maybe she chose not to. Saying things like, did he force her is classic victim blaming. I take it that you have experienced rape and know how it work, I take it that if a man many times bigger and stronger than you forced himself onto you that you'd have no problem fighting him off.

Quick question, if you sister, wife, mom was raped and told you about it would you tell them that until the man was convicted that we could not judge them. Would you then ask them if maybe he was just a sleaze and they were into it for their own benefit? Or is it only famous women you refuse to believe and assume are all making it up.

Here's a good one, is Bill Cosby a rapist? He was found guilty but in his first trial got off. Was the first trial a case of vengeful women with no talent getting revenge?

p to the e wrote:

There's a difference between a serial rapist and a sleazebag who used his position of power to get consenting women into bed.

Well aware of that, are you saying that Weinstein is not in fact a rapist but rather a sleaze bag and all these women are making things up?

PlaneSpeeking · 16-07-2018 11:30AM

Thank the Lord for the ignore option.

p to the e · 16-07-2018 11:33AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Well aware of that, are you saying that Weinstein is not in fact a rapist but rather a sleaze bag and all these women are making things up?

Does it have to be one or the other? There are women who he may have forced himself upon. There are women who may have gladly bedded him. There are women who may have gladly bedded him and then regretted it. There are women who may have been raped but have never said anything. It's not black and white and now it's up to the courts to decide.

My other concern in all of this is why is Weinstein the only one that seems to be targetted. I can guarantee that there are many producers who have been just as lecherous yet nothing.

pixelburp · 16-07-2018 11:34AM

Just to be clear on what the status of Weinstein's legalities are:

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-41594672

He has been charged with rape stemming from two separate victims' accounts, and New York state is suing the company for failing to protect employees. Equally; there is a list of at least 90 accounts, eclipsing Cosby levels of abuse. Also, at least 10 women have reported him to the police in the UK. This is not a flash-in-the-pan case of some actors bitter about their careers.

But no, let's instead go off on a tangent about hashtag culture, and trot out the tried & tested method of victim blaming, while affecting fairness in awaiting the legal decision. Just ignore the reality of 'the casting couch' that has basically gone unchecked for decades, in an industry with more than its fair share of skeletons, dodgy practices and outright illegality.

Harvey Weinstein and #MeToo/sexual misconduct scandals

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