House and Brothers new girlfriend

LegacyUser · 25-02-2018 06:59PM #1

Hi there

myself and my brother own a house in Dublin and both of us live in it. My Girlfriend moved in about 2 years ago and things have been ok.

My brother has a new girlfriend (around 6 months now) and she started coming over and staying in the house with him.

Then even-though my bro's GF is renting her own place (no other house mates) they are here nearly everyday after work and then she leaves in the morning. They are here for the whole weekends most weeks.

Then a month ago bro's gf started randomly coming into the house to hoover and clean and make food and does my bro's clothes washing (with some of her own mixed in) etc and she now has her own key. My GF was not happy with this and confronted her, my bro's GF flat out told her that she has a key and will come and go whenever she likes and to stop asking her when she will be calling etc. My GF stopped talking to her at all and just ignored her.

I talked to my bro about her being here a lot and he said that they would keep it to being here for a few days a week and then spend the rest of the week in her house. His GF told my bro that she didnt feel comfortable coming to the house and my bro was also questioning why my GF was blanking her. this was all a month or so ago.

They have since cleared the air but i think they both do not like each other. I think both of them like things done there own way etc.

Would anyone else be happy with someone who just turns up randomly or is this normal? I've a feeling this is going to all end in tears and I hope me and my bro do not fall out of it.

ted1 · 25-02-2018 09:31PM

I’m curious why your GF can stay but his csn’t ?

Tenigate · 25-02-2018 09:32PM

Maybe I'm missing something, but you moved your gf in, and when he does the same your gf takes exception to it?

Assuming your gf doesn't own the house, it's not really her place to be rude to your brother's guest.

Ursus Horribilis · 25-02-2018 10:05PM

Did you and your brother ever make an agreement about what you'd do if one or both of you met someone? What you've described isn't as unique or as unusual as you think. Couples and house shares can often be a disastrous mix and that's exactly what has happened here. Only it's more complicated seeing as both of you own the house.

And on that note, are you (and your brother) aware of the legal implications of moving your girlfriend(s) into the house? It might be time to brush up on Irish cohabitation law..

Maybe it's time for you and your brother to look into selling the house and for ye to both get your own places? It's something that's going to have to be done sooner or later anyway, is it not?

LegacyUser · 25-02-2018 10:10PM

i meant to add that my GF is paying rent

dellas1979 · 25-02-2018 10:49PM

Am confused too why it was/is ok for your gf to be there, but not his?

2 women waring is not a happy environment be.

And the funny bit is neither of them really have anything to do with who lives there (seeing as you both own the property) -but you and your brother dont seem to have put any rules down, for yourselves or for any of them.

In short, there doesnt seem to be any communication.

Big Bag of Chips · 25-02-2018 11:31PM

Your gf might be paying rent, but as she lives with the owner occupiers then she is not a tenant and rather a licensee, and really has no business whatsoever in telling anybody else when they can or cannot be in the house. It is up to you and your brother to decide what is acceptable between yourselves. And she has to accept it. If your brother decides to move his gf in, then she has no right to say no. You probably don't have any right either seeing as you moved your gf in. Your brother might out of courtesy discuss it with you, but he doesn't exactly need your permission, and he certainly doesn't need your gf's.

She was out of line. And I hope she apologised at the time, although I doubt she did. The two women may never get on, but that's more down to your gf marking her territory than anything your brother's gf did wrong.

26-02-2018 12:39AM

GAFFandBroGF wrote: »

Hi there

myself and my brother own a house in Dublin and both of us live in it. My Girlfriend moved in about 2 years ago and things have been ok.

My brother has a new girlfriend (around 6 months now) and she started coming over and staying in the house with him.

Then even-though my bro's GF is renting her own place (no other house mates) they are here nearly everyday after work and then she leaves in the morning. They are here for the whole weekends most weeks.

Then a month ago bro's gf started randomly coming into the house to hoover and clean and make food and does my bro's clothes washing (with some of her own mixed in) etc and she now has her own key. My GF was not happy with this and confronted her, my bro's GF flat out told her that she has a key and will come and go whenever she likes and to stop asking her when she will be calling etc. My GF stopped talking to her at all and just ignored her.

I talked to my bro about her being here a lot and he said that they would keep it to being here for a few days a week and then spend the rest of the week in her house. His GF told my bro that she didnt feel comfortable coming to the house and my bro was also questioning why my GF was blanking her. this was all a month or so ago.

They have since cleared the air but i think they both do not like each other. I think both of them like things done there own way etc.

Would anyone else be happy with someone who just turns up randomly or is this normal? I've a feeling this is going to all end in tears and I hope me and my bro do not fall out of it.

What an absolute tyrant! How dare she hoover and clean and wash clothes !

wiggle16 · 26-02-2018 12:46AM

You and your brother should not fall out over this, your girlfriend is the one who has caused this problem. She has no more right than I do to tell your brother who can come and go.

It's not really that she's turning up randomly at all: your brother gave her a key, so obviously he wants her to come and go as she pleases.

Your girlfriend decided she didn't like that and took it upon herself to say so. She had no right to do that.

It sounds like your brother is the one who has decided to keep the peace by virtue of the fact that he has said he will limit his own GF coming over, when he has absolutely no obligation to do that. Your girlfriend has got her way, anyhow: if he was planning to move his GF in at some stage, she won't after this. She has made his girlfriend uncomfortable in his own home and that's completely out of line. Your brother is definitely aware of what happened and is avoiding further trouble by spending more time at his GF's place.

There is no real fix to this, your girlfriend has likely soured things between herself and this other girl permanently, so my only advice to you would be to realise that your brother is being the bigger man in this situation, and so not to make any further issue with this girl coming over and don't let your girlfriend do so either - or then it will end up in tears.

SimpleDimples · 26-02-2018 08:07AM

You should be more concerned about how bossy, controlling, rude and out of order your girlfriend is than anything else.

She may be paying rent but lacks tact and judgment and willinging ploughs ahead with addressing something that should be between you and your brother. Did she not even have the consideration to speak to you beforehand?

His girlfriend cooks and clean, yours just causes trouble! Is your girlfriend normally like this because if so it might be worth reconsidering if she's the right one for you.

threetrees · 26-02-2018 08:12AM

This is a rent and bills question. I think if the brothers GF moved in officially, paid rent and bills then your GF and the brothers GF would suddenly get on like a house on fire. Forgive me but I think your GF just wants everyone to pay their way.

Teyla Emmagan · 26-02-2018 09:32AM

Have your brother's girlfriend move in full time, sorted.

Your problem OP is that your GF clearly thinks it is 'her' house. It's not her house, it's yours and your brother's house. She should not be laying the law down to anyone and your brother should not have to curtail his relationship because of her. This is really unfair, it makes your brother a second rate home owner and further down the pecking order than she is!

Your girlfriend needs to get back in her box and you need to speak to your brother. This is not a normal house share. If it is a case that the other GF is there so much that she should possibly be contributing to bills etc then that is for yourself and your brother to decide. But I think yourself and your GF are being very unfair to him atm.

suicide_circus · 26-02-2018 09:33AM

If everyone us paying their fair share I don't see the problem. If the bros gf dosnt contribute financially then I can see how that would be contentious

woodchuck · 26-02-2018 11:03AM

I think people are being a bit harsh on the OPs girlfriend!! We don't know the context in which the confrontation occured. It sounds like this issue has been brewing for a while and the OP can correct me if I'm wrong, but I highly doubt this came out of nowhere. OP surely she has discussed her concerns with you? While I agree it's not her place to the confront your brothers girlfriend, I can't blame her if you didn't discuss this with your brother.

I think you need to have a serious chat with your brother. I think it's only fair that she either lives there and contributes financially (as your own girlfriend is) or else she limits her time there to an agreed number of nights per week.

Long term though, have you discussed what your living arrangements will be with your girlfriend? Presumably you both want to live together on your own at some point? It's also possible that the current situation (living together but not alone) is frustrating for her and one more person making themselves at home there isn't helping matters...

BetsyEllen · 26-02-2018 12:19PM

I also think the OP's girlfriend is getting a hard time.
She lives there, it is her home, regardless of if she owns it. She pays rent and she should have a right to know who has a key and when they may be entering her home.

It's not fair that someone she may not know very well can walk through the front door at any time that they wish with no prior warning.

If she's in the kitchen cooking and cleaning, maybe the issue is that the girlfriend (who lives there and pays rent) wants to use the washing machine or oven yet is feeling aggrieved that someone who doesn't pay rent is just letting themselves in whenever they wish and using them instead.

I'd be annoyed too.

I do agree however that confronting the brothers girlfriend was wrong, to be fair to her she was given a key by one of the owners of the house and told to use it.

The brother should have been addressed first and the 3 people that live in the house should have discussed it.

Rekop dog · 26-02-2018 02:22PM

There's so many red flags with your girlfriend it's frightening. She sounds like a complete gowl, it needs to be addressed and it should be the main thing you should take from this thread. It's a very bad sign for her to treat your family with such unreasonable hostility.

Also the fact you say this may lead to you falling out with your brother you should question the negative influence this woman is having over your life.

You also have to be mindful that he may have felt like a third wheel in that house for a long time, I've lived in a situation where I shared with a brother and his girlfriend and no matter how well you know them it's never fully comfortable living with a couple. Considering that, it feels extra churlish of your girlfriend that now he has a girlfriend she is made feel completely unwelcome.

jon1981 · 26-02-2018 02:54PM

OP be the diplomat in this one, you don't want this situation damaging your relationship with your brother. If either of you end up marrying (or whatever form of life long commitment you choose) you're going to be seeing each other for many more years.

My advice,work with the brother on this one. The gf has her own place, what's stopping your brother spending more time there?

redcup342 · 26-02-2018 03:08PM

Sounds like you guys need to get your own places to live.

DaeryssaOne · 26-02-2018 03:12PM

People are being way too harsh on the OP's girlfriend here. She has been living in this house for two years and paying rent whereas the brother's girlfriend is only around 6 months - it's too early for a couple to be moving in together anyway and she should not be acting like she already lives there. When you are only with someone a few months and staying over in their place you should act like you are a houseguest and not be busting in doing washing and the rest.

The brother should definitely have spoken to you both first before giving her a key and everybody should been more open about expectations.
Is there a reason they don't want to hang out in her place at all, even for a bit of privacy for themselves at weekends etc?

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5 · 26-02-2018 06:37PM

I can kind of see or imagine both sides here.

Bro's GF "I've been staying here a lot, it's too early in the relationship/I can't afford to kick in for rent, but I should be at least helping out around the house, himself says it's grand to call in whenever"

OP's GF "fcuk sake yer wan is here again when I'm wrecked after work and want to relax in my own home, I wanted to use the washing machine and I can't, she doesn't live here, I do"

OP and his brother "wtf is going on???"

You say things have been "ok" since your GF moved in, is there any underlying tension with her and the brother?

She should've talked to you and your brother rather than confronting the other woman. Your brother should have talked to ye more before giving her a key. As a matter of interest how much communication was there over your gf moving in, was your brother just following your lead and keeping it casual or did you do it very differently?

LegacyUser · 26-02-2018 07:19PM

spoke to my GF and it turns out that she did not "confront" the other girl. Over christmas we were all going to go out to dinner with my folks and we were looking to find dates that would suit us all . Supposedly my gf was asked her a couple of times what way she was working around christmas etc.

My bros gf snapped and said something like "I dont have to tell you what i do day to day, i dont have to explain what do i and people have been asking me this my whole life", she then went on to say that she has a key and will come and go whenever she likes". Maybe she picked it up wrong or maybe my GF is lying.

My GF then ignored her after this for a few days before clearing the air and apologizing that she was "off" so as to kill tension in the house. Everything was going good there for a while, I think its only a matter of time before it explodes again as she keeps coming over without my bro being there and they are here nearly every day.

I spoke to my bro about this and he said that his GF said that she was being blanked by my GF (not sure if his gf told my bro of their exchange in Dec). He said that they would stay in her place half the week but over the last two weeks they've been here nearly all week and the whole weekend the last two weeks.

I dont have too much of a problem with her being here, but i'm not a fan of her being here a lot when my bro isnt here especially as i only met her a few weeks before she started letting herself in. I know it's my bro's house too but it's a little bit too much sometimes.

She has not moved in as far as i know. If she was to move in then i think i would move out as two couples sharing would be too much.

We will have to have a chat and see how it goes.

Pelvis · 26-02-2018 07:47PM

TBH if I was your brother my greater concern would your girlfriend's legal entitlements to half of his house.

colm_mcm · 26-02-2018 07:50PM

Pelvis wrote: »

TBH if I was your brother my greater concern would your girlfriend's legal entitlements to half of his house.

How does that work?

AllForIt · 26-02-2018 08:10PM

For the sake of balance it's not cool when someone moves in in a sort of slithery fashion. This happened to me in a house share where one of the tenants had a guy move in temporarily and then as if my magic he was suddenly a fully fledged member of the household. It all kicked off when this guy complained to me that the fridge wasn't big enough ( he had it packed with cans of lager).

Ursus Horribilis · 26-02-2018 08:32PM

Going by the varied responses here, you might conclude that there isn't anyone completely in the right or in the wrong here. At the root of all of this appears to be a lack of communication. No doubt life was nice and simple when it was just you and your brother in the house. Now there are 3 if not 4 people living in your house and it's like the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing.

I think the lax arrangement you and your brother had has come back to bite you. There are people overstretching boundaries all over the place here and both couples are behaving like the house is their place and theirs alone. I assume that was your brother's thinking when he gave his girlfriend a key and didn't mention it to you. And why both girlfriends are behaving like the house is theirs. It wouldn't surprise me if there's underlying resentment on a few sides here. Was your brother honestly happy to suddenly find himself sharing his house with a couple? Would your girlfriend rather be living just with you? And really, are you happy to be continuing to live with your girlfriend and your brother?

Earlier in the thread I asked if you'd agreed what you'd do with the house if ye met someone. Admittedly it's early days with your brother's relationship but it is something that could be coming down the tracks sooner than you think. You can't live with your brother forever.

Rekop dog · 26-02-2018 08:33PM

AllForIt wrote: »

For the sake of balance it's not cool when someone moves in in a sort of slithery fashion. This happened to me in a house share where one of the tenants had a guy move in temporarily and then as if my magic he was suddenly a fully fledged member of the household. It all kicked off when this guy complained to me that the fridge wasn't big enough ( he had it packed with cans of lager).

It's not a houseshare where everyone is renting though. There's two owners here who have as much rights as each other. If she doesn't like it she should move out but something tells me she won't. I'm sure she was around plenty herself before she officially moved in and started renting. She should be making the brothers gf feel at ease, not giving her the cold shoulder, but instead she successfully asserted her dominance so the original couple in the house can rule the roost again.

Eric Cartman · 26-02-2018 08:49PM

sounds to me like your missus has taken a disliking to your brothers missus and is using you as an attack dog to solve her problems.

robindch · 26-02-2018 09:06PM

GAFFandBroGF wrote: »

My Girlfriend moved in about 2 years ago and things have been ok.

I would politely suggest that you get yourself to a lawyer as soon as you can. Like tomorrow or the day after.

While I'm sure that things are great with your gf, you do need to know that since 2011, if you break up after two years if you and she have a child together (or five years if you do not have a child together), then your ex can go to court to obtain a Redress Order which is essentially a claim against your share of the house.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/problems_in_marriages_and_other_relationships/redress_scheme_for_cohabiting_couples.html

Things might be different if you have a signed tenancy or license agreement with your gf, but given the way these things usually happen, you probably don't.

Once you have confirmed your own status by visiting a lawyer, you will probably need to speak with your brother privately as soon as possible in order to confirm exactly who has what rights under Irish law. Note that if you're paying off a mortgage, then you've probably already waived the right to grant licenses on the property. Also, if you don't have a co-ownership agreement, you should look into getting on one done as soon as possible as your situation - so far as you've described it here anyway - has a lot of risks.

witchgirl26 · 06-03-2018 11:02AM

OP I have been, to some extent, the GF in the situation who was living in the house. My OH owned the house with his brother living there. Bro's GF started spending more and more time in the house (no key but there pretty much every evening and all weekend). Let me tell you it was annoying. It was my home and she was moving things around to suit her etc. I wouldn't have minded so much if she was contributing to the house in rent and bills but she wasn't and it became a problem for me after a while.

Have a chat between yourself and your brother about it and leave the GF's out of that. Both of you own the house and this needs to be between the two of you. However do think if your GF was over like that a bit before officially moving in and paying and if that could be put to you by your brother. It shouldn't be one way for one and one way for the other.

In terms of the rights - my understanding is that it's 5 years without children living together and it doesn't mean that she's entitled to part of the house but she may be entitled to stay until reasonable accommodation can be found and also for refund for what she has put into the house itself.

House and Brothers new girlfriend

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