The 8th amendment(Mod warning in op)

2wsxcde3 wrote:

While things weren't perfect in Ireland in the past, all in all they were better than what we have today with contraception and sex ed being thrown at young people sexualizing them more than they want to be. More teen pregnancies, more STIs. We have more of these NOW, not less than in the past.

Sex ed and contraception being "thrown" at young people can only be a good thing.

How does access to contraception result in more teen pregnancies?

Also a possible reason for an increase in STIs being diagnosed is that more people are actually getting tested. Many STIs are asymptomatic and will not be detected if people keep their heads in the sand and don't look after their health.

2wsxcde3 wrote: »

Someone said a few posts ago that suicide nowadays is being unreported. They mentioned traffic accidents. So you're point is invalid.

How is my point invalid? just because suicides etc are still under reported now doesn't mean they weren't underreported by a greater amount before

2wsxcde3 wrote: »

As regards to the quote i made about a link not being required for the obvious, i subsequently provided a link for that point which people then didn't want to talk about. Here is the link again in case you missed it:

I used the word routinely in my comment on your lack of evidence not always, that comment wasn't directed in any particular post

2wsxcde3 wrote: »

Teenagers feel under pressure to have sex
ALMOST ONE-THIRD of teenage girls and 8 per cent of boys have come under pressure to start having sex, according to research presented yesterday by the Crisis Pregnancy Agency (CPA). Research carried out by the agency has found that young people who engage in sex before the age of consent – 17 years – are more likely to experience crisis pregnancy, to have an abortion and to contract a sexually-transmitted disease. “Young people who had sex at an early age were also more likely to express regret – to say that they wished they waited longer,” said Prof Hannah McGee of the Royal College of Surgeons at the launch. Teenage sexual activity was highly culturally influenced, she said, and “myths” of early sexual experience abounded. Caroline Spillane, director of the CPA, said young people experienced immense pressure from their peers, boyfriends and girlfriends, and the media, but differed in their ability to cope with these pressures.
(Source: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/teenagers-feel-under-pressure-to-have-sex-1.790521 )

The point being made is that the media pressurizes young people into having sex, leading to unwanted pregnancies which results in abortion according to the study. So the media helps create the problem of unwanted pregnancies, and is now here in 2018 forcing an abortion referendum on the public to fix a problem that they themselves helped to create.

I'm assuming you read that whole article, but you conveniently missed the whole paragraphs about the inadequate/ lack of sex education they had received

2wsxcde3 wrote: »

So now that i've provided my link, you might do the same?

A link for? the question i asked you!

2wsxcde3 wrote: »

Could you blame them for being "alarmed"? Could you imagine becoming a doctor to help people and then being forced against your conscious to give women the abortion pill?

your speaking for all doctors now?:rolleyes:

2wsxcde3 wrote: »

Some would argue that the doctor could just send the woman to another doctor. But that argument falls apart. Ashers bakery in Northern Ireland were not allowed tell a gay customer to just go to another bakery for their wedding cake.

Once something becomes a "human right", people are forced to go against their conscious.

Not really, Simon Harris already stated that doctors will be able to do that. Northern Ireland is also a different jurisdiction which has specific laws in relation to political discrimination which was what it fell under if I recall correctly.

Just to clarify, you've got a problem with sex education, Muslims and gay people? You seem to have ranted about every topic in this thread.

pitifulgod wrote: »

Just to clarify, you've got a problem with sex education, Muslims and gay people? You seem to have ranted about every topic in this thread.

I've no problem with muslims or gay people. I've used some comparisons to create analogies with the current abortion referendum. But i am not against those people at all. I've no problem with sex education either, it just needs to be careful that it teaches young people about sex in an objective manner rather than inadvertently pushing people into having sex.

2wsxcde3 wrote: »

I've no problem with muslims or gay people. I've used some comparisons to create analogies with the current abortion referendum. But i am not against those people at all. I've no problem with sex education either, it just needs to be careful that it teaches young people about sex in an objective manner rather than inadvertently pushing people into having sex.

They're genuinely terrible analogies, one was a politician being disciplined by his party for behaving awfully and disgusting the general public. Your gay marriage example equally applied to straight couples. Your cake example was a different jurisdiction.

Sex education does not push young people into having sex. Groups have actively tried to offer poor quality sex education, similar to that which one encounters in the US. This results in more unwanted pregnancies. High quality sex education results in higher quality sexual health and reduced unwanted pregnancies. This does not mean pushing sex as you seem to think...

Also interesting that you ignored Simon Harris' statement that I mentioned. A better 'analogy' would be people claiming that same sex marriage would mean that the Catholic Church will be forced to handle same sex weddings...

NuMarvel wrote: »

Boards.ie user tears through pro life red herring quota in a single afternoon.

Getting perilously near the "banned from thread for increasingly bizarre rants" stage we have seen multiple times here.

2wsxcde3 wrote: »

But i am not against those people at all.

It always makes me feel warm and fuzzy when I'm called one of 'those' people.:rolleyes:

Andrew Beef wrote: »

What’s the consensus regarding when human life truly begins? Because that clearly informs the analysis.

I have no issue with the morning after pill, for example, but I’m vehemently opposed to abortion at 12 weeks. Yet a baby cannot survive at 12 weeks, so some people view the “survival outside the womb” point as the threshold.

I am concerned at the stories of 10 week old foetuses recoiling from abortion implements.

But my starting point is that a woman’s right to choose does not trump an unborn child’s right to life. As for the stuff telling men to butt out and claiming that this is a women’s issue, it isn’t; this is a societal issue and both men and women must defend the unborn child against the angry mob of angry women led by the likes of a certain failed Labour politician and verbose Senator/lecturer.

No. No no no. No.

I am not going to dictate to any woman that she must carry a baby. We as women are more than just incubators for babies. We are people with minds of our own, If the woman does not want to carry a baby she can and is currently going to the UK and else where in Europe for an abortion. Irish women are also ordering on the internet and taking abortion pills. I want us to stop this farce of pretending it's not happening. Whether you like it or not Irish abortions are happening.

As a nation we need to accept this and move on. Your argument about society is moot. It's happening. Every.single.day.

Andrew Beef wrote: »

What’s the consensus regarding when human life truly begins? Because that clearly informs the analysis.

I have no issue with the morning after pill, for example, but I’m vehemently opposed to abortion at 12 weeks. Yet a baby cannot survive at 12 weeks, so some people view the “survival outside the womb” point as the threshold.

I am concerned at the stories of 10 week old foetuses recoiling from abortion implements.

But my starting point is that a woman’s right to choose does not trump an unborn child’s right to life. As for the stuff telling men to butt out and claiming that this is a women’s issue, it isn’t; this is a societal issue and both men and women must defend the unborn child against the angry mob of angry women led by the likes of a certain failed Labour politician and verbose Senator/lecturer.

Mob of angry women? Are you serious?
You aren’t doing your cause any favour with smart comments like that, I’m angry because my human rights are infringed.
You’d be angry too if your medical care was comprimised for a stupid reason.

Well my starting point is that a woman’s rights, wants and needs are more important than the contents of her womb.
But I’ll humor you anyway. I believe it’s a human life when the fetus is sentient.

The scientific community have yet to pinpoint the exact moment sentience begins, but most medial and scientific professionals agree that it begins somewhere around 17 weeks gestation.
This would be when I, personally, feel it becomes a suparate entity.

WhiteRoses wrote: »

The scientific community have yet to pinpoint the exact moment sentience begins, but most medial and scientific professionals agree that it begins somewhere around 17 weeks gestation.
This would be when I, personally, feel it becomes a suparate entity.

So they do not know when it begins?

What happens in 2 years time if they discovery it begins at 10 weeks?
Do we update legislation to 10 weeks?

What happens if they discover it happens at 5 weeks?
Would you still be happy with abortion on request until 12 weeks or would you change your views?

amdublin, that’s fine, but it doesn’t mean that we need to legitimise it; let the perpetrators travel to the UK and criminalise them if they perform abortions in this jurisdiction. Just because the UK do something (e.g. permit abortion or leave the EU), does that mean we should too?!