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Frustrated with Turas Nua

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Comments

  • #92
    jmcgill16
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60 ✭✭jmcgill16


    Twelve Bar Blues wrote: »
    Signing the Personal Progression Plan is effectively signing a contract, without the absolute specifics, it includes an agreement between the 'customer' and Turas Nua that the customer will furnish TN with details of their new employer and agree that TN can contact said employer at different intervals throughout their employment. TN receive a bonus at different stages of your employment.
    Effectively they are being rewarded monetarily for helping you get the job (whether they did or did not).
    You can still engage without signing the PPP. And you are not breaking any rules by not signing, as long as you engage by attending meetings, apply for jobs, courses etc. This was confirmed by a High Court ruling recently. You cannot be forced into a contract with any private company. The DSP encourage the customer to sign, but it is not and cannot be forced.

    The sign-in sheet is a fire registration form, health and safety.
    And the signature for travel expenses is just that.

    This is exactly it. Though in addition, Turas Nua are generally dropping people who refuse to sign the PPP rather than forcing them to continue to attend meetings, apply for jobs etc. This is because without a signed PPP Turas Nua likely won't get paid for finding the 'customer' employment, so its not worth their while committing resources to them. The joys of private sector profit seeking priorities.


  • #93
    Twelve Bar Blues
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 161 ✭✭Twelve Bar Blues


    jmcgill16 wrote: »
    This is exactly it. Though in addition, Turas Nua are generally dropping people who refuse to sign the PPP rather than forcing them to continue to attend meetings, apply for jobs etc. This is because without a signed PPP Turas Nua likely won't get paid for finding the 'customer' employment, so its not worth their while committing resources to them. The joys of private sector profit seeking priorities.

    If only I knew this last May. I signed. TN have made no difference to my search for employment. At the minute they are actually impeding me from attending a Payroll course.


  • #94
    Twelve Bar Blues
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 161 ✭✭Twelve Bar Blues


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    I'm only on Jobpath since the autumn, and with seetec instead of TN, but I've had the same experience. Thankfully I have a few interviews coming up, so hopefully I'll be rid of them sooner rather than later. I have a funny feeling they'll become a lot more interested in me once I find work :rolleyes:

    Yes - probably!

    Good luck with your interviews :-)


  • #95
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,006 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    I was laid off work last Sept from a job I have been in for 30 years. I was sent to TN about a month later.. I recently found out that I would be returning to my job in the very near future.Surely they will have no business contacting my employer as I have been in this job for so long.They definitely won't be able to contact me as I have no phone or email.My plan is when I return to work is to sign off online giving no details to why I am doing so!
    .


  • #96
    Johnnycanyon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 211 ✭✭Johnnycanyon


    I was laid off work last Sept from a job I have been in for 30 years. I was sent to TN about a month later.. I recently found out that I would be returning to my job in the very near future.Surely they will have no business contacting my employer as I have been in this job for so long.They definitely won't be able to contact me as I have no phone or email.My plan is when I return to work is to sign off online giving no details to why I am doing so!
    .


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  • #97
    Steve30x
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 557 ✭✭✭Steve30x


    splinter65 wrote: »
    What difference does it make to him? He’s not giving them the commission.
    It’s astonishing the amount of people on Jobseekers who couldn’t find a job, but found one instantly when faced with TN or Seetec.
    Mind boggling.
    Its astonishing that Turas Nua and Seetec only got 18% of their clients jobs.
    splinter65 wrote: »
    No . Your not on the live register when you are on CE scheme but other then that if your getting a Jobseekers payment then your on the register.The live register has gone down steadily since TN Seetec came on the scene.
    Once again it’s astonishing the amount of Jobseekers who couldn’t find a job who found one when referred to either of these companies.

    You should look into the facts as to why the live register has fallen so much since the introduction of Turas Nua and Seetec> The live register is going down because people are having their money Illegally taken off them because Turas Nua and Seetec are making false claims of non-engagement aganst people. There was a high court case brought against them on the 26th of January because of this. Turas Nua and Seetec along with the department of social protection brought in false evidence to tarnish these people in court and the court did not see through their false evidence. Then These two companies and the department of social Protectrion were forced to admit their evidence was falsified. When their evidence was found to be false they were then forced by the court to admit that a person can not be cut off their dole for not signing the Personal Progress Plan. The truth is that more people than ever before have been cut off their dole because of Turas Nua and Seetec because they are falsely making claims to the department of Social Protection about people.


  • #98
    TheAnalyst_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,370 ✭✭✭TheAnalyst_


    Steve30x wrote: »
    Its astonishing that Turas Nua and Seetec only got 18% of their clients jobs.


    Its not a bad figure when you consider the level of people they're dealing with. This is the bottom 10% of society.


  • #99
    splinter65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    TheAnalyst_ wrote: »
    Its not a bad figure when you consider the level of people they're dealing with. This is the bottom 10% of society.

    This is not fair. The reality is you can be working in a job for 20 years and find yourself redundant and have to apply for JSB. And people on JSB for a couple of months are being referred to TN.
    So you’d better not be so smug .
    I don’t know where this figure of 18% is being pulled out off, it’s probably made up.
    I do know this though.
    TN are very good at quickly discovering who should be getting a Jobseekers payment and who shouldn’t.
    If your not fit for work you need to be on Disability.
    If your minding a sick/old person then you need to be on Carers.
    If your at home minding small children and parenting alone you need to be on OPFP
    If your at home minding small children and your spouse has a low income job then he/she needs to apply for FIS.
    If you have a hard earned qualification or many years experience in a field and there are no opportunities for you in that field where you are located right now, then either you relocate or accept that you will have to work in another trade.
    Also, and you can see it in this thread, a staggering amount of people referred to TN miraculously find work themselves within weeks of referral.
    The rest are a bit of a mystery.
    I see lots of posters here saying “..but I was just about to apply for BTEA/CE Scheme/Springboard/BTEI and now TN say I can’t do it”.
    If you were on JSA for longer than 9 months/1 year then why did you wait till now?


  • #100
    Ajsoprano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 698 ✭✭✭Ajsoprano


    I was involved with one of these crowds. Found a job myself. They tried to get the details off me I think to claim the credit. I just told them I was busy and hung up every time they called.

    They stopped calling after a while.


  • #101
    splinter65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Ajsoprano wrote: »
    I was involved with one of these crowds. Found a job myself. They tried to get the details off me I think to claim the credit. I just told them I was busy and hung up every time they called.

    They stopped calling after a while.

    How long had you been on Jobseekers before you found the job, and how long after you joined TN?


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  • #102
    Ajsoprano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 698 ✭✭✭Ajsoprano


    splinter65 wrote: »
    How long had you been on Jobseekers before you found the job, and how long after you joined TN?

    There had been a huge recession in the building trade. I had two meetings with Turas. I had just finished a year work placement. Jobs in my trade started to pick up I got a job when the did.

    It had nothing to do with turas nua. I asked them to pay for my safe pass. They told me they will if I get a letter from an employer saying I could have a job if I had a safe pass.
    I just got the safe pass myself when I got the job.
    I didn’t just run out to get a job because I had to go to a meeting with them once a month or so.
    My year work placement was sitting in a car park directing traffic. It had nothing to do with me getting a job in my trade. Rediculous FG set up of kicking people when they are down during a recession.

    I’m now in a job a little over half a year and I haven’t been late or missed a day. Monies not as good as it used to be but I work hard just like I did before my last job went bust.

    Thanks for the kicking while you massaged the figures.


  • #103
    Steve30x
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 557 ✭✭✭Steve30x


    splinter65 wrote: »
    I don’t know where this figure of 18% is being pulled out off, it’s probably made up.
    Yup Its pulled out of a hat

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/work/only-18-of-jobpath-participants-secured-full-time-work-1.3372840

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/just-18-get-work-out-of-jobpath-scheme-466423.html

    http://www.solidarity.ie/solidarity_td_calls_for_jobpath_to_be_scrapped

    http://www.frg.ie/useful-info/are-jobpaths-days-numbered/https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2018-01-25a.586
    splinter65 wrote: »
    Also, and you can see it in this thread, a staggering amount of people referred to TN miraculously find work themselves within weeks of referral.
    There you go with that nonsense again. A few people on this thread represents everybody that got sent to turas nua is it? I have supplied proof that only 18% gotjobs through Turas Nua.


  • #104
    splinter65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Steve30x wrote: »
    Yup Its pulled out of a hat

    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/work/only-18-of-jobpath-participants-secured-full-time-work-1.3372840

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/just-18-get-work-out-of-jobpath-scheme-466423.html

    http://www.solidarity.ie/solidarity_td_calls_for_jobpath_to_be_scrapped

    http://www.frg.ie/useful-info/are-jobpaths-days-numbered/https://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2018-01-25a.586

    There you go with that nonsense again. A few people on this thread represents everybody that got sent to turas nua is it? I have supplied proof that only 18% gotjobs through Turas Nua.

    Mind you 18% is not bad when added to all the other people who found their own jobs after being referred to TN plus all the people who transferred to the correct payment for them (as I explained above), and explains why unemployment is currently the lowest it’s been for 10 years.


  • #105
    Ajsoprano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 698 ✭✭✭Ajsoprano


    splinter65 wrote: »
    Mind you 18% is not bad when added to all the other people who found their own jobs after being referred to TN plus all the people who transferred to the correct payment for them (as I explained above), and explains why unemployment is currently the lowest it’s been for 10 years.

    Yeah all the schemes are a great way to get that figure down.
    Genius really.


  • #106
    splinter65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Ajsoprano wrote: »
    Yeah all the schemes are a great way to get that figure down.
    Genius really.

    Well, if someone is caring for a sick child or an elderly parent then what do you suggest they live on?
    Likewise someone too ill to work ?
    They’re not available for work so they can’t get Jobseekers. Are you suggesting they should still be on the live register ? Why?
    What about lone parents of small children ? They’re not available for full time work nor is a parent at home with kids while the partner is out in low income job.
    All these people need SW payments but they’re not Jobseekers.
    Those are the schemes your suggesting are manufactured to reduce the appearance of the live register. Ridiculous.


  • #107
    Ajsoprano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 698 ✭✭✭Ajsoprano


    So you say the figures are the lowest ever In one post then the next post you defend changing how the figures are calculated.


  • #108
    splinter65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Ajsoprano wrote: »
    So you say the figures are the lowest ever In one post then the next post you defend changing how the figures are calculated.

    No. You don’t appear to understand the concept of the live register . You appear to think that everyone on a SW payment of any type should be on the live register including pensioners and sick people and Carers.
    The live register is for people looking for and available for work. It’s at its lowest at the moment for ten years, because people have found paid employment either with or without TN or they’ve discovered that they’re not entitled to a Jobseekers payment or they’re not in the country any more.
    Either way , it’s good news, no?


  • #109
    Stonedpilot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭Stonedpilot


    jmcgill16 wrote: »
    The current best advice is to simply refuse to sign their contract at the meetings.

    I've heard multiple reports of people doing that and them just being dropped from Seetac/Turas Nua with no penalty. By attending any meetings, but just not signing over any rights to Seetac, its not refusing to engage so your JSA can't be penalized. But at the same time Seetac can't deal with you.

    The department even circulated an internal memo (which has since leaked) advising its staff not to dock anyones payments who does the above, so its fairly legitimate.

    Do you have a link to this memo or it's details?. Thanks.


  • #110
    Steve30x
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 557 ✭✭✭Steve30x


    splinter65 wrote: »
    Mind you 18% is not bad when added to all the other people who found their own jobs after being referred to TN plus all the people who transferred to the correct payment for them (as I explained above), and explains why unemployment is currently the lowest it’s been for 10 years.
    Mind you just because the Unemployment figures have been reduced it DOES NOT mean that because people are put on Turas Nua or Seetec that they all of a sudden got jobs themselves. Since the introduction of JobPath in 2015, penalty rates were applied to 5,325 welfare claimants by the Department of Social Protection. But by October of this 2017, the figure had already reached 14,637. Theres been many many reports people are being sanctioned for being late , wanting to change appointment date because of real life issues that are unavoidable or not wanting to sign the Personal Progress Plan.
    splinter65 wrote: »
    Those are the schemes your suggesting are manufactured to reduce the appearance of the live register. Ridiculous.
    In your world of defending the Department of Social Punishment and Jobpath the concept of
    suggesting are manufactured to reduce the appearance of the live register. is Ridiculous

    But the fact that its true. I've done two ETB courses to upskill. Both times I was taken off the live register. If a person is put on a CE scheme or Gateway they are taken off the live register. The unemployment figure is not falling because people all of a sudden get jobs. Its all of a sudden people are sanctioned by the Department of Social Punishment and taken off the live register or the put on schemes or courses.

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/welfare-penalty-spike-tied-to-jobpath-463844.html


  • #111
    splinter65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Steve30x wrote: »
    Mind you just because the Unemployment figures have been reduced it DOES NOT mean that because people are put on Turas Nua or Seetec that they all of a sudden got jobs themselves. Since the introduction of JobPath in 2015, penalty rates were applied to 5,325 welfare claimants by the Department of Social Protection. But by October of this 2017, the figure had already reached 14,637. Theres been many many reports people are being sanctioned for being late , wanting to change appointment date because of real life issues that are unavoidable or not wanting to sign the Personal Progress Plan.

    In your world of defending the Department of Social Punishment and Jobpath the concept of



    But the fact that its true. I've done two ETB courses to upskill. Both times I was taken off the live register. If a person is put on a CE scheme or Gateway they are taken off the live register. The unemployment figure is not falling because people all of a sudden get jobs. Its all of a sudden people are sanctioned by the Department of Social Punishment and taken off the live register or the put on schemes or courses.

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/welfare-penalty-spike-tied-to-jobpath-463844.html

    People on CE schemes are taken off the live register because they are in work, paying PRSI and getting a pay slip.
    Anyone doing a course is not available for work and not signing on so not on the live register. People attending TN/Seetec remain on the live register.
    What does it matter if JobPath find you a job or you miraculously find a job yourself not long after being referred to them? The main thing is you have a job, that’s what you wanted?
    The days of long term unemployment are drawing to a close. If you can’t find a job in your field you must either pick another field and train in that or upskill in the field your in.
    Able bodied people of working age need to be either in work or training for a job. What is your issue with that?


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  • #112
    Rory28
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,185 ✭✭✭Rory28


    splinter65 wrote: »
    Able bodied people of working age need to be either in work or training for a job. What is your issue with that?

    If anyone has an issue with this then they just plain don't want to work.


  • #113
    splinter65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Rory28 wrote: »
    If anyone has an issue with this then they just plain don't want to work.

    ....and are, as you can see, very annoyed at being told they have to. Very sad to see.


  • #114
    Ajsoprano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 698 ✭✭✭Ajsoprano


    splinter65 wrote: »
    ....and are, as you can see, very annoyed at being told they have to. Very sad to see.

    I was made stand in a car park directing traffic for a year getting abuse off arseholes that thought they should park wherever they wanted because they were collecting their child from dancing.

    I went to job place after that and they told me to go back to building but wouldn’t pay my safe pass unless I got a job first.

    So the car park job was punishment for losing my job.

    The government and the banks and other governments and banks and my employer over borrowed and lots of building work stopped.

    The best course of action according to this government was to kick the fella that went in every morning and collected his wages on a Friday.

    Sure it’ll look like everyone is back at work.

    If they put me in jail I’d have been off the live register as well. I wouldn’t put it past them.
    There is no benefit to most of these employment schemes apart from numbers.

    The government love the numbers though.

    Crime up -pretend that murder was an accident
    Police work down- sure just fill out that form and pretend you were out all day doing breath tests.
    Unemployment up-stick them in a stupid scheme.
    Homeless beds - well they aren’t homeless if they live in a hotel and then we have record hotel occupancy
    House numbers down - sure we are building loads of houses I seen a building site on my way to work this morning- there’s a site in kilmore Dublin with a huge number of houses getting built years now, go out and have a look at the progress.

    Departments of spin, young party lads practicing their debating by hanging out on forums.

    It’s a sewer.


  • #115
    Ajsoprano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 698 ✭✭✭Ajsoprano


    It’s a government scheme where the unemployed are kicked and the governments buddies are paid to kick them.
    You honestly think I go to a building site 5 days a week and work my nuts off because I had to sit in an office twice and ask for a safe pass and be told no?

    Why didn’t I do that when I had to stand in a car park and be abused for a year?

    Was the two safe pass refusal meetings the straw that broke the camels back?


  • #116
    mollygreene
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56 ✭✭mollygreene


    [\quote] I don’t know where this figure of 18% is being pulled out of[/quote]

    It's from the first year, 2015-2016
    Turas Nua's first office only opened in July 2015, they were well in to 2016 before most offices were properly up and running with referrals from DSP.

    Being measured before fully operational is where that came from. So, imo, almost 20% is an achievement in such a small timeframe.


  • #117
    Steve30x
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 557 ✭✭✭Steve30x


    splinter65 wrote: »
    People on CE schemes are taken off the live register because they are in work, paying PRSI and getting a pay slip.
    Anyone doing a course is not available for work and not signing on so not on the live register. People attending TN/Seetec remain on the live register.
    What does it matter if JobPath find you a job or you miraculously find a job yourself not long after being referred to them? The main thing is you have a job, that’s what you wanted? [\Quote] As I said its not just because people as you say all of a sudden got a job after being put on JobPath that the unemployment figures are gone down so far. Its because people are being sanctioned by Turas Nua and Seetec , they are on Schemes or courses. I am well aware why these people are taken off the live register too. You don't need to explain to me why. But its a true fact that the unemployment figures isn't down because all of a sudden most of the unemployed people all of a sudden got jobs. Its because they are on schemes and courses which pad the unemployment figures and this has been pointed out by Various TD's over the past few years.
    splinter65 wrote: »
    If you can’t find a job in your field you must either pick another field and train in that or upskill in the field your in.
    Able bodied people of working age need to be either in work or training for a job. What is your issue with that?
    In some parts of the country theres a massive lack of jobs. Maybe you are not aware of this because there are lots of jobs available but here in Waterford and Waterford County we have some of the highest unemployment in the country because there is a massive lack of jobs.


  • #118
    Steve30x
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 557 ✭✭✭Steve30x


    mollygreene wrote: »
    It's from the first year, 2015-2016
    Turas Nua's first office only opened in July 2015, they were well in to 2016 before most offices were properly up and running with referrals from DSP.

    Being measured before fully operational is where that came from. So, imo, almost 20% is an achievement in such a small timeframe.
    Its from 2015 - 2017. I posted the newspaper articles about it. From 2015 - 2016 Turas Nua only got jobs for 4% of their clients.


  • #119
    splinter65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    Funny how quiet the Jobpath cheerleaders go when people like yourself bring up scenarios that don't fit with their narrow-minded worldview, isn't it?

    Funny how quiet the JobPath cheerleaders go during regular working hours though and the night time hours when some people need to get sleep in order to be productive during the day.
    I’ve just read the posters rant it’s not any different to lots of other rants on the Benefits section of boards, there was even the standard swipe at the banks and the government.
    Car park attendant is a job, I’d do it if I needed the money, construction is a job, what’s the problem?


  • #120
    splinter65
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,420 ✭✭✭splinter65


    Just heard P Murphy champion extraordinaire of the pay-for-nothing brigade on the radio complaining like mad about TN , so they must be doing something right.


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  • #121
    Ajsoprano
    Closed Accounts Posts: 698 ✭✭✭Ajsoprano


    I think Paul murphy and his buddies might do quite well this year.
    I’d say Fianna Fáil will be the big winners or Sinn Fein.
    Deflection of saying “you were in a war in the 80s and did bad things” or “you bankrupt the country” doesn’t work well when people can reply “you tried to smear a good man as a peado”

    But sure maybe Maurice macabe didnt want to work either.

    Anyhow that’s for another thread. On the bus home covered in glue and dust after a days work opposing jobbridge and all its new names.


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