DAB News

The Cush · 19-11-2017 11:50pm

The Cush wrote: »

Digital Radio UK ‘Doing the DAB’ event in Belfast today, 11.00-12.00, where JP Coakley, RTÉ's Director of Radio Operations, is taking part.

http://www.belfastmediafestival.co.uk/events/doing-the-dab/

Additionally, the Republic of Ireland’s public service broadcaster, RTÉ, will talk about future plans for digital radio

Haven't see any reports about this in the press, just this

Additionally JP Coakley from RTÉ, the Republic of Ireland’s public service broadcaster, spoke of RTɒs support of DAB in the Republic of Ireland, indicating that he is keen to explore opportunities for co-operation with Northern Ireland broadcasters in the future.

http://www.getdigitalradio.com/dab-news/view/669

https://twitter.com/DigitalRadioUK/status/931488920206004224

https://twitter.com/viamux/status/931490688558161920

20-11-2017 12:04pm

Sounds like he is pleading for funding to get DAB going here! It’s going very well in the north and Rte should wake up and get the rest of Ireland on digital radio even if it meant a few independent companies setting it up.

The Cush · 20-11-2017 12:54pm

zorro2566 wrote: »

Sounds like he is pleading for funding to get DAB going here! It’s going very well in the north and Rte should wake up and get the rest of Ireland on digital radio even if it meant a few independent companies setting it up.

Stalled while awaiting a BAI policy on this for the independent commercial radio sector, at least RTE have 50% population coverage.

rogue-entity · 20-11-2017 8:13pm

zorro2566 wrote: »

...Rte should wake up and get the rest of Ireland on digital radio even if it meant a few independent companies setting it up.

It comes down to this:
Comreg are responsible for licensing the spectrum, but their policy (with regards to radio) is to deal only with RTE or the BAI. They do not appear to have any policy or plans regarding T-DAB and deferred me to the BAI.

The BAI, although responsible for the licensing of broadcasters, concluded that for a service provider (multiplex operator) it would not be their responsibility, but Comreg.

So you get caught between the proverbial pillar and post, as neither side has decided just what to do; two different private companies ran "trials" of DAB but nothing came of it.

The Cush · 20-11-2017 9:41pm

rogue-entity wrote: »

So you get caught between the proverbial pillar and post, as neither side has decided just what to do; two different private companies ran "trials" of DAB but nothing came of it.

Indeed, the frequency for a second "commercial" mux is agreed and internationally coordinated but what would be the point of Comreg issuing a multiplex licence without the content to be carried. Until such time as the BAI/Dept of Communications lay down a policy on the future of commercial radio using DAB we're stuck where we are.

24-11-2017 10:52pm

Radio Kerry has audio now. Passing through Donnybrook on a bus and the signal is dire. Dropping over the cliff even when stopped.

SimonMaher · 25-11-2017 12:45am

Karsini wrote: »

Radio Kerry has audio now. Passing through Donnybrook on a bus and the signal is dire. Dropping over the cliff even when stopped.

The main purpose of the test at this stage is to demonstrate the ease and low cost by which stations can be fed to the multiplex. A very simple mini-pc in the radio station 'streaming' direct to the software based MUX. When the original DAB tests with all the hardware were done years back the capital costs were huge and this Minimux demonstrates that this is not now the case! Very impressive tech and interesting to see how it develops. Aerials at low height currently, that can be changed once the MUX technology is tested and demonstrated.

Simon

Schorpio · 25-11-2017 1:24pm

If this minimux rolls out nationwide it would silence a lot of naysayers against the implementation of DAB in Ireland.

I would love the ability to switch between these regional stations.

Trick of the Tail · 30-11-2017 3:54pm

The trouble is, its only involving the existing FM stations, not any new operators.

This is largely because the BAI are not keen on encouraging any alternative services, since the FMers are lobbying them against this - as they don't want any competition.

So I can see that if mini-muxes are rolled out, they'll merely contain the same FM stations available right now, which is pointless.

Scotty66 · 01-12-2017 9:05am

Such a shame. In the UK the localised DAB trial has provided a broadcast platform for dozens of interesting new formats serving niche audiences. There's no evidence to suggest that these have posed any threat whatsoever to the existing mainstream stations. The BAI should follow Ofcom's lead and rise above the lobbyists, considering instead the wider listener benefits of the new technology.

Phat Dick · 01-12-2017 11:38am

Schorpio wrote: »

If this minimux rolls out nationwide it would silence a lot of naysayers against the implementation of DAB in Ireland.

I would love the ability to switch between these regional stations.

I wonder though would the industry be happy with such a thing to be permanent/official? I mean how would a local station fell about stations from other county's broadcasting in their area potentially taking their listeners ?

SimonMaher · 01-12-2017 1:05pm

Phat Dick wrote: »

I wonder though would the industry be happy with such a thing to be permanent/official? I mean how would a local station fell about stations from other county's broadcasting in their area potentially taking their listeners ?

They may not be too happy but hopefully they will take the pragmatic view (as they have done with the Irish Radioplayer app) that if nothing else, it keeps people listening to homegrown radio stations and interested in linear, home produced radio.

For now, the inter-station rivalries have to be parked in order to preserve the position of the broadcast radio industry as a whole. Also, as Scotty says above, there is great potential in the local minimux idea where a whole pile of alternative services can be provided at low cost on DAB. Again, it keeps people listening to broadcast radio at relatively low cost and the stations that provide the best content, regardless of platform, will thrive.

Let's hope the BAI sees the success of the Minimux in the UK, and follows suit here.

Simon

Former Former · 01-12-2017 2:07pm

Scotty66 wrote: »

Such a shame. In the UK the localised DAB trial has provided a broadcast platform for dozens of interesting new formats serving niche audiences. There's no evidence to suggest that these have posed any threat whatsoever to the existing mainstream stations. The BAI should follow Ofcom's lead and rise above the lobbyists, considering instead the wider listener benefits of the new technology.

No one is worried about the niche audiences, they're worried about the mass market. If all that was proposed for DAB was community stations and special-interest content, there wouldn't be any objections.

But if you're running Radio Kerry or Ocean FM, and suddenly you're competing with 98FM, FM104, Spin 1038, Nova, Sunshine, Red FM* and every other station in the country, then you're going to find yourself out of business pretty quickly.

Unregulated competition sounds great but it doesn't help the smaller players and it definitely does not foster diversity; in a tiny market like Ireland, a free-for-all would wipe out the regional stations.

(*yes, I know all these stations are available everywhere online anyway)

Trick of the Tail · 01-12-2017 4:53pm

SimonMaher wrote: »

The main purpose of the test at this stage is to demonstrate the ease and low cost by which stations can be fed to the multiplex. A very simple mini-pc in the radio station 'streaming' direct to the software based MUX. When the original DAB tests with all the hardware were done years back the capital costs were huge and this Minimux demonstrates that this is not now the case! Very impressive tech and interesting to see how it develops. Aerials at low height currently, that can be changed once the MUX technology is tested and demonstrated.

Simon

The tests that Total Broadcast did in the south east the capital costs weren't huge at all (after the development costs) - in fact the system used then was identical to that now being tested - again.

Those tests pre-dated the mini-mux tests in the UK from which the current ones are derived.

It worked 5 years ago, it works now.

SimonMaher · 02-12-2017 1:54am

Trick of the Tail wrote: »

The tests that Total Broadcast did in the south east the capital costs weren't huge at all (after the development costs) - in fact the system used then was identical to that now being tested - again.

Those tests pre-dated the mini-mux tests in the UK from which the current ones are derived.

It worked 5 years ago, it works now.

You're right TOTT, The more technically minded know that the technology works but I think that this trial is as much a demo is aimed as much at demonstrating the technology to IBI members as it is in showing how robust the new software solutions are.

I don't agree with Formers point above that having locals on other locals patch on a 48k DAB+ stream will wipe out anything. For most non-urban listeners (e.g. those for Ocean, Radio Kerry etc as mentioned) it's the localness that makes the station. Having locals available widely poses no threat to anybody, just provides a service to an ex-pat who likes the sound of home. On the younger side, have the iRadios and Beats of this world so little confidence in themselves and their product that they don't believe they could compete with Spin or Red on DAB+?

Possibly the competition from out-of-franchise but still local players argument might have held some water 10 years ago but in these days of Radioplayer, Apps, Spotify, Deezer, Apple Music, Amazon Echos, Sonos, TuneIn etc it's an utterly moot point.

The only thing that will screw FM radio over in Ireland is stations spending their time battling niche broadcast platforms, and niche players, while two internet companies who don't own any radio stations at all take all their money and render the whole argument academic anyway.

Simon

More Music · 02-12-2017 10:30pm

Former Former wrote: »

....
But if you're running Radio Kerry or Ocean FM, and suddenly you're competing with 98FM, FM104, Spin 1038, Nova, Sunshine, Red FM* and every other station in the country, then you're going to find yourself out of business pretty quickly.....

To be honest I think that’s the other way around. The likes of Radio Kerry have nothing to fear from Red FM etc. You look at investment in studios, OB units and technology over the years. Financially stable.

Also, think about people leaving the town they grew up in to find work or study. It’s mostly one way traffic. Leaving the small towns of Ireland to live in Dublin and Cork etc. They would love to hear their local station in these cities.

The Cush · 03-12-2017 12:11am

More Music wrote: »

Also, think about people leaving the town they grew up in to find work or study. It’s mostly one way traffic. Leaving the small towns of Ireland to live in Dublin and Cork etc. They would love to hear their local station in these cities.

Definitely agree with this, back in analogue satellite days, using a Pace MSS100 satellite receiver, in Dublin, I could tune in Radio Limerick One.

At the time IIRC it was the only local licensed radio station to broadcast via satellite until they lost their licence in the mid 90s.

It was great to be able to tune in occasionally to the local news but most listened to were the national stations via the radio.

Trick of the Tail · 04-12-2017 4:35pm

All true, but a local station being able to be heard outside its franchise area doesn't help them in any way. They can't sell outside their area, and listeners don't show up in the surveys.

I don't think the FMers care about out-of-area competition. They know it won't erode their local audience much, if at all.

[Except maybe if DAB were to be introduced in the South-East, for example, where there is no 4FM].

However they do not want competition from other services; they'd all hate to have their listeners be able to hear stations carrying country music, oldies, nostalgia, rock etc - as they might lose share that way.

That's why they will grudgingly accept the inevitable introduction of DAB, but only on their terms - which are that only the IBI stations are audible on it.

end of the road · 04-12-2017 4:51pm

Trick of the Tail wrote: »

All true, but a local station being able to be heard outside its franchise area doesn't help them in any way. They can't sell outside their area, and listeners don't show up in the surveys.

I don't think the FMers care about out-of-area competition. They know it won't erode their local audience much, if at all.

[Except maybe if DAB were to be introduced in the South-East, for example, where there is no 4FM].

However they do not want competition from other services; they'd all hate to have their listeners be able to hear stations carrying country music, oldies, nostalgia, rock etc - as they might lose share that way.

That's why they will grudgingly accept the inevitable introduction of DAB, but only on their terms - which are that only the IBI stations are audible on it.

i wonder if that would be against EU competition rules though? as it would be essentially favouring 1 organisation and it's members.

rogue-entity · 14-12-2017 12:18am

end of the road wrote: »

i wonder if that would be against EU competition rules though? as it would be essentially favouring 1 organisation and it's members.

Except that has been the status quo for radio in Ireland since 1989. To paraphrase a legend:

"Despite the fact that listeners want the right to choose what station they listen to (on FM), those in power still continue to deny them that right"

real rocker · 20-01-2018 1:48pm

I noticed yesterday that many regional Irish stations plus Today FM wrer displaying in the DAB list although not successfully loading. Is another test under way I wonder? Can't see any news re such a development.

Schorpio · 20-01-2018 2:17pm

real rocker wrote: »

I noticed yesterday that many regional Irish stations plus Today FM wrer displaying in the DAB list although not successfully loading. Is another test under way I wonder? Can't see any news re such a development.

Where are you located? Dublin?

The Cush · 20-01-2018 4:09pm

real rocker wrote: »

I noticed yesterday that many regional Irish stations plus Today FM wrer displaying in the DAB list although not successfully loading. Is another test under way I wonder? Can't see any news re such a development.

There is no audio stream for a number of stations on the trial muxes including Today FM.

real rocker · 21-01-2018 4:38pm

Where are you located? Dublin? YES

kleefarr · 13-02-2018 10:10pm

Looking into the DAB for our local community radio station. www.crkc.ie
We have programs going out on air and when not on air the Sampro PC takes over.

We are looking into a viable DAB solution but so far coming up with nothing.

The Cush · 16-02-2018 10:49pm

Recent Irish Times article on DAB, https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/tv-radio-web/tuning-out-digital-radio-fails-to-make-waves-1.3382499

This from the article in relation to the subject of this thread

David Timpson has been involved in RTɒs digital broadcasting efforts since the very beginning and he agrees that a greater engagement from the commercial broadcasters is necessary to push DAB as a viable format.

“We do not enjoy being on the platform by ourselves,” Timpson says. “We look at developments in other countries, such as Norway and Switzerland, and we see the developments in digital radio in those countries, and the only way that those guys have managed to advance the platform of digital radio to the stage that they’re at, is through collaboration with the industry.

“We’ve said it publicly: look, we’re not going any further. RTÉ, as an organisation, we’re not going to go any further with digital radio until such a time as the industry acts together. We are at a stage where we’re trying to collectively decide what next steps we might take.”

The Irish Radioplayer app is the best example of the kind of collaboration Timpson is talking about. It’s a joint effort from RTÉ and the independent broadcasters that makes 43 Irish radio stations available within a single app, and it has been successful in making Irish radio more discoverable and more accessible. It recently became available on Amazon Echo and Google Home.

In a small addendum to the project, Timpson and his colleagues have used just two small masts on top of the RTÉ radio building to digitally broadcast all the same stations to the Donnybrook area. It’s a localised proof-of-concept: a pair of transmitters carrying practically all the radio stations in the country.

This digital signal automatically and seamlessly takes over from Radioplayer’s internet stream, providing a hybrid, free-to-air solution within a mobile app environment. It’s not necessarily how things would work on a national scale, but for Timpson it shows the power and simplicity of the technology.

“We wanted to use that project as a prism that the industry could look through to perhaps ask how we could take the next step together,” he says. “At the moment we’re in the process of finding ways to collaborate and make a collective decision. And it has to be a decision that would be perceived by the rest of the industry as viable.

Mickey Mike · 18-02-2018 4:18pm

I personally feel there is no need for Dab/+ in Ireland, if so it would be launched years ago. Commercial Radio can be carried on the Saorview platform nationwide and local Radio carried on local Saorview transmitters, for example Radio Kerry served from Mulliganish , 98fm from Tree Rock, Clare FM from Maghera and so on.
What is the problem with that? An ideal solution as it coexist with FM broadcasts.

end of the road · 18-02-2018 5:02pm

the reality is very few people listen to their radio via tv, so carying commercial radio via Saorview while nice wouldn't be financially viable.
there certainly is a need for dab but it needs to be pushed, and right now there isn't the funding or will to do it. at least the BAI seem to be working on the possibility of a legal framework for it, which is something. it couldn't have happened years ago as the money wasn't there for a long time and there was no legal framework for stations to operate on it.

marno21 · 18-02-2018 5:48pm

Mickey Mike wrote: »

I personally feel there is no need for Dab/+ in Ireland, if so it would be launched years ago. Commercial Radio can be carried on the Saorview platform nationwide and local Radio carried on local Saorview transmitters, for example Radio Kerry served from Mulliganish , 98fm from Tree Rock, Clare FM from Maghera and so on.
What is the problem with that? An ideal solution as it coexist with FM broadcasts.

As far as I know there is one multiplex distributed nationwide with no option to include separate services locally.

The other issue is that relays don't always rebroadcast a feed from their local county. All of the west Cork transmitters relay Mullaghanish for example

ghostdancer · 19-02-2018 10:33am

Mickey Mike wrote: »

I personally feel there is no need for Dab/+ in Ireland, if so it would be launched years ago. Commercial Radio can be carried on the Saorview platform nationwide and local Radio carried on local Saorview transmitters, for example Radio Kerry served from Mulliganish , 98fm from Tree Rock, Clare FM from Maghera and so on.
What is the problem with that? An ideal solution as it coexist with FM broadcasts.

how do I listen to a Saorview-based station in my car?

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