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Dispute with bookmaker pay-out

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  • 15-02-2018 1:52pm
    #1
    pmpb
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭


    Hi all,

    I placed three separate bets last Tuesday evening. The total amount I was asked for was €23, I then deliberately checked the stake charged on each docket and advised the girl that the calculation were wrong. She totaled the docket `charged` prices and thanked me. I was then charged €33 for the three dockets.
    Two of which I have not problem with.
    The third bet reads, €1.50 straight forecast and 25 cent combination forecast which amounts the €3 total stake which I wrote on the docket, but I was overcharged by €10 bringing the total amount paid on the docket to €13.
    2-1-8 was the result of the race, I played 1-2-8. This made the straight tricast a loser but the combination tricast a winner. The tricast paid €253.34 to the euro bet equating the winnings to €63.35.
    I then noticed that I had been overcharged by €10 which according to my interpretation this should be spread over the seven individual bets or €1.43 plus 25 cent tricast.
    I placed the bet in Boyle Sports Dublin, their rule book is physically inaccessible ( partially hidden behind T.V`s) but also in terrible small writing.
    Boylesport contend that they made a mistake (as I did) and adjusted the docket (after the race) to €3 and made the €10 void.
    My point is that any undercharged bet is spread equally over each bet.

    Any advise would be welcome.


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    #2
    Django99
    Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Django99


    pmpb wrote: »
    Hi all,

    I placed three separate bets last Tuesday evening. The total amount I was asked for was €23, I then deliberately checked the stake charged on each docket and advised the girl that the calculation were wrong. She totaled the docket `charged` prices and thanked me. I was then charged €33 for the three dockets.
    Two of which I have not problem with.
    The third bet reads, €1.50 straight forecast and 25 cent combination forecast which amounts the €3 total stake which I wrote on the docket, but I was overcharged by €10 bringing the total amount paid on the docket to €13.
    2-1-8 was the result of the race, I played 1-2-8. This made the straight tricast a loser but the combination tricast a winner. The tricast paid €253.34 to the euro bet equating the winnings to €63.35.
    I then noticed that I had been overcharged by €10 which according to my interpretation this should be spread over the seven individual bets or €1.43 plus 25 cent tricast.
    I placed the bet in Boyle Sports Dublin, their rule book is physically inaccessible ( partially hidden behind T.V`s) but also in terrible small writing.
    Boylesport contend that they made a mistake (as I did) and adjusted the docket (after the race) to €3 and made the €10 void.
    My point is that any undercharged bet is spread equally over each bet.

    Any advise would be welcome.

    Pretty sure you're right, if the bet on the slip is for €3 and the amount paid is €13, it should be settled in proportion at 433.33%. However one thing is unclear from your post above, was it a forecast or tricast bet? First part of your post says straight forecast and combination forecast. But you've give us the tricast dividend. Could also be part of the confusion.


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    #3
    alan.p22
    Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭alan.p22


    pmpb wrote:
    I placed three separate bets last Tuesday evening. The total amount I was asked for was €23, I then deliberately checked the stake charged on each docket and advised the girl that the calculation were wrong. She totaled the docket `charged` prices and thanked me. I was then charged €33 for the three dockets. Two of which I have not problem with. The third bet reads, €1.50 straight forecast and 25 cent combination forecast which amounts the €3 total stake which I wrote on the docket, but I was overcharged by €10 bringing the total amount paid on the docket to €13. 2-1-8 was the result of the race, I played 1-2-8. This made the straight tricast a loser but the combination tricast a winner. The tricast paid €253.34 to the euro bet equating the winnings to €63.35. I then noticed that I had been overcharged by €10 which according to my interpretation this should be spread over the seven individual bets or €1.43 plus 25 cent tricast. I placed the bet in Boyle Sports Dublin, their rule book is physically inaccessible ( partially hidden behind T.V`s) but also in terrible small writing. Boylesport contend that they made a mistake (as I did) and adjusted the docket (after the race) to €3 and made the €10 void. My point is that any undercharged bet is spread equally over each bet.


    Ive worked in a bookies for a few years.What Boyles did is correct.Overcharged stakes is always refunded


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    #4
    pmpb
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭pmpb


    There was one straight tricast bet (which lost) and one combination tricast bet (which is 6 bets)- one of which won.


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    #5
    pmpb
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭pmpb


    Hi Alan,

    thanks for the reply. I am not doubting you and that is what is being advised to me by Boyle sport.
    My points are;
    firstly the onus on bets placed is for the individual to ensure that they are checked according to rules of Boylesport- these are inaccessible to anyone because they are partial hidden behind TV sets (I have taken several pictures) and also printed in letters so small that they are illegible to most people I have asked (including staff).

    Secondly; I cannot be directed to shop rules either via email or online. I was directed to Boyle Sport website but there the third line reads ; (*Please note that separate betting rules apply to wagers placed in our licensed betting offices in the Republic Of Ireland). I would like to see the rule book myself.

    Thirdly; if I lost the race I would have throw the docket away which opens the question of what happens to unclaimed winnings from the shops? Should there be legislation introduced to provide a specific use for monies that the bookmaker has no ethical entitlement too.

    Fourthly; Under-staked bets are not processed by the expressed wishes of the punter- the amount is divided proportionally
    among the entire bet. Since I was overcharged by the mistake of the staff member this should also apply.


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    #6
    Django99
    Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Django99


    alan.p22 wrote: »
    Ive worked in a bookies for a few years.What Boyles did is correct.Overcharged stakes is always refunded

    Really? I've done it a couple of times before in a hurry and have been paid at proportion, but now that I think of it both times was in the UK. I'd be surprised if there were different rules between the two though?


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    #7
    rekluse
    Registered Users Posts: 925 ✭✭✭rekluse


    Django99 wrote: »
    Really? I've done it a couple of times before in a hurry and have been paid at proportion, but now that I think of it both times was in the UK. I'd be surprised if there were different rules between the two though?

    Yeah I've also worked in a bookies, overstake is always voided.


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    #8
    Healio
    Registered Users Posts: 2,825 ✭✭✭Healio


    rekluse wrote: »
    Yeah I've also worked in a bookies, overstake is always voided.

    Which company was that?

    Also, how did that company settle their under-staked bets?


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    #9
    pmpb
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭pmpb


    I eventually managed to get an `half acceptable`picture blown up on my computer of the in-shop BoyleSport rule book.
    It reads undfer the section for `tricast`....

    " Stakes for any tricast double, treble etc. accepted in error will be divided equally to cover each tricast race in tricast singles only"

    My understanding of this is that I am right, " Stakes....ACCEPTED IN ERROR" which mine was.
    Ant other interpretations would be welcome.


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    #10
    alan.p22
    Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭alan.p22


    pmpb wrote:
    " Stakes for any tricast double, treble etc. accepted in error will be divided equally to cover each tricast race in tricast singles only"


    I dont work for boyles i work for an independent so not biased towards them.That rules states t/c doubles and trebles which they must not accept.They have always refunded overstakes on bets because some punters would want them back when they lose but not when it wins.


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    #11
    danganabu
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,277 ✭✭✭danganabu


    alan.p22 wrote: »
    I dont work for boyles i work for an independent so not biased towards them.That rules states t/c doubles and trebles which they must not accept.They have always refunded overstakes on bets because some punters would want them back when they lose but not when it wins.

    Well one could argue the reverse about the Bookie - pay you out on the lesser stake if it wins and just keep the excess if it looses.


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    #12
    alan.p22
    Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭alan.p22


    danganabu wrote:
    Well one could argue the reverse about the Bookie - pay you out on the lesser stake if it wins and just keep the excess if it looses.


    Rules are there for both the bookie and the punter.Always get "losing" dockets checked amszing amount of times ive surprised somepne


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    #13
    ohbygod
    Registered Users Posts: 187 ✭✭ohbygod


    I also work for a bookies and the previous posts are correct overstaked bet is refunded


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    #14
    Django99
    Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Django99


    Where insufficient cash is paid to cover the bet placed, settlement is made in accordance with the stake as recorded on the receipt as follows:
    - Where insufficient stakes are invested, the total stake will be apportioned over the whole slip. With various bets on one slip, the slip will be settled in proportion. In other words, the total return will be calculated from your slip as written, then multiplied by the actual cash paid and divided by the amount you should have paid.
    -Where there is over staking, the excess stake money will be invested in proportion over the whole slip.
    - If your slip shows fewer than the correct number of bets the bet return is calculated in proportion. We multiply what should have been the full return by the stake actually paid. This is then divided by the amount you should have paid.
    - If your slip shows more than the correct number of bets, it is settled to the correct number at the stake unit you request, with the excess cash invested in proportion over the whole bet.

    This is from Paddy Powers shop rules which are online. Seems to suggest settling in proportion is the right way to do it. Can't find anything similar for Boyles


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    #15
    Django99
    Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭Django99


    If a slip has been understaked, the total returns from the whole of the slip will relate to the amount actually paid and calculated accordingly (ie: the return will be multiplied by the amount paid and divided by the amount that should have been paid).
    If a slip has been overstaked, the total returns from the whole of the slip will relate to the amount actually paid and calculated accordingly, thereby increasing any return due (ie: the return will be multiplied by the amount paid and divided by the amount that should have been paid). No overstaking will be returned.

    These are Corals rules available online also. As I said earlier I would be surprised if Boyles had different rules but it is possible. But going on what these two sets of rules say an overpayment should never be refunded and should be settled in proportion.


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