Delivery driver sues pub for defamation after barman said €10 note was fake.

old_aussie · 11-02-2018 11:57PM

Odhinn wrote: »

"An actionable defamatory statement has three ingredients:

it must be published,
it must refer to the complainant and
it must be false."
https://www.lawyer.ie/defamation/

What the ****

Did you actually read the article?

boombang · 12-02-2018 12:13AM

There are so many of these crazy stories. The more I read about them the more I believe the legal industry is operating a implicit racket against the public. It's tantamount to wholescale fraud in my view. I know others won't agree, but it's now firmly my belief. The sad thing is that no one individual or group has a strong enough incentive to take on the thieving lawyers and the larceny will persist.

fleet_admiral · 12-02-2018 12:15AM

Hey Leonard, leave my local alone

Mr. teddywinkles · 12-02-2018 02:31PM

Give him the 5000 in counterfeit.

mikhail · 12-02-2018 03:11PM

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

Give him the 5000 in counterfeit.

Counterfeit? Monopoly money. When he complains, sue him for defamation.

Depending on how the bar handled this, I might buy that the lad's been defamed, but €5000? I should invest in a pitchfork and flaming torch emporium.

12-02-2018 03:18PM

Stonedpilot wrote: »

He has no assets delivery driving is basically slave labour not even close to minimum wage. You get like €25 for the night, tips and drop payments like €2 a go. So €50 for the night minus petrol €15 = .€35 a shift. Same for deliveroo etc. Exploitation incorporated.

Fair play to him take the money and run. The way some go on here "assets" etc is a joke. Swear he was Denis O Brien or something.

Trust me if hes delivery driving he has nothing. Nothing of value financial anyway.

Jesus, 7 nights a week for €245 a week, tough going.

rawn · 12-02-2018 04:13PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Stonedpilot wrote: »

He has no assets delivery driving is basically slave labour not even close to minimum wage. You get like €25 for the night, tips and drop payments like €2 a go. So €50 for the night minus petrol €15 = .€35 a shift. Same for deliveroo etc. Exploitation incorporated.

Fair play to him take the money and run. The way some go on here "assets" etc is a joke. Swear he was Denis O Brien or something.

Trust me if hes delivery driving he has nothing. Nothing of value financial anyway.

Jesus, 7 nights a week for €245 a week, tough going.

My dad used to do it 3 nights a week, the money is not that bad. 25e, around 2e per delivery, roughly 6 deliveries an hour plus tips...

Odyssey 2005 · 12-02-2018 04:32PM

Hope the revenue are following this story. I'd hate to think he may be claiming jobseekers allowance and doing food deliveries in the evening.

12-02-2018 04:41PM

rawn wrote: »

My dad used to do it 3 nights a week, the money is not that bad. 25e, around 2e per delivery, roughly 6 deliveries an hour plus tips...

As far as I am aware it changes (massively) from place to place (whoever you're delivering for, that is).

Some places give decent money, others don't.

Guy:Incognito · 12-02-2018 05:28PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

As far as I am aware it changes (massively) from place to place (whoever you're delivering for, that is).

Some places give decent money, others don't.

Didn't you listen to stonedpilot. They are all poor slaves earning a pittance and should be encouraged to stick it to the evil publican (whatever it is the pub has done to keep delivery drivers down is anyone's guess) by making false claims.

Deise Vu · 12-02-2018 05:32PM

I just thought I'd throw this out there but what dopey forger would forge a €10 note? The same work as a €50 which my many years of high finance tells me is a 400% greater return. I understand it would be easier to shift a €10 but you have to balance that against having to pass one off five times versus one €50 for the same return. Plus the paper, the printing etc.

I don't know what my point is (whats new?:D:D:D) but surely the barman never had a dodgy €10 passed before. Unless it was a cheap photocopy, I can't imagine any self-respecting forger wasting his time on one.

12-02-2018 05:36PM

Deise Vu wrote: »

I just thought I'd throw this out there but what dopey forger would forge a €10 note? The same work as a €50 which my many years of high finance tells me is a 400% greater return. I understand it would be easier to shift a €10 but you have to balance that against having to pass one off five times versus one €50 for the same return. Plus the paper, the printing etc.

I don't know what my point is (whats new?:D:D:D) but surely the barman never had a dodgy €10 passed before. Unless it was a cheap photocopy, I can't imagine any self-respecting forger wasting his time on one.

Plenty about. Though I've noticed more dud 20s. I've had duds from the Post Office ffs.

my3cents · 12-02-2018 05:50PM

Deise Vu wrote: »

I just thought I'd throw this out there but what dopey forger would forge a €10 note? The same work as a €50 which my many years of high finance tells me is a 400% greater return. I understand it would be easier to shift a €10 but you have to balance that against having to pass one off five times versus one €50 for the same return. Plus the paper, the printing etc.

I don't know what my point is (whats new?:D:D:D) but surely the barman never had a dodgy €10 passed before. Unless it was a cheap photocopy, I can't imagine any self-respecting forger wasting his time on one.

The reason being you are more likely to pass a fake €10 in a crowded busy establishment than you are a €50.

Go to the next extreme a €100 note and you'd be hard pressed to pass off a near perfect fake because they are so rarely used they nearly always get checked.

Because I worked testing note checking machines I used to try and get hold of fakes that shops had ended up taking in and the worst fake I have ever seen was €5. It was probably copied on a school colour printer and passed during lunch time in the local supervalu when the shop was packed full of kids. It was so bad you'd need to have been blind not to spot it but when under pressure with big queues and people (kids) pushing checkout operators do less checking.

The other side of the coin (:o) is that you are swapping one large risk passing off a €50 for 5 smaller risks passing 5 €10's

12-02-2018 05:58PM

my3cents wrote: »

The other side of the coin (:o) is that you are swapping one large risk passing off a €50 for 5 smaller risks passing 5 €10's

True. Depends on context I suppose. Who's gonna think anything of a tenner unless it's truly awful? And if you're caught just the once or twice in different places it's not a big deal, sure it's only a tenner, easier to brush off.

BattleCorp · 12-02-2018 06:31PM

mikhail wrote: »

Counterfeit? Monopoly money. When he complains, sue him for defamation.

Depending on how the bar handled this, I might buy that the lad's been defamed, but €5000?

I'm not commenting on whether or not the guy is genuine or not but how much is someone's good name worth?

It's certainly worth more than €5k.

Stonedpilot · 12-02-2018 06:57PM

rawn wrote: »

My dad used to do it 3 nights a week, the money is not that bad. 25e, around 2e per delivery, roughly 6 deliveries an hour plus tips...

6 an hour hmmmmmm.

That's 10 minutes to wait for food, back into car off again and back in 10 minute!. Not a hope, unless person is doing deliveries in a helicopter.

It's usually 3/4 an hour if you are very lucky and fast.

The money is absolutely terrible.

You seriously saying €25 a shift isn't bad?. That's like €4/5 an hour. It's beyond shyt.

It's HALF minimum wage!

rawn · 12-02-2018 07:08PM

Stonedpilot wrote: »

rawn wrote: »

My dad used to do it 3 nights a week, the money is not that bad. 25e, around 2e per delivery, roughly 6 deliveries an hour plus tips...

6 an hour hmmmmmm.

That's 10 minutes to wait for food, back into car off again and back in 10 minute!. Not a hope, unless person is doing deliveries in a helicopter.

It's usually 3/4 an hour if you are very lucky and fast.

The money is absolutely terrible.

You seriously saying €25 a shift isn't bad?. That's like €4/5 an hour. It's beyond shyt.

It's HALF minimum wage!

No because you keep the delivery money too. And the driver doesn't go out with one delivery at a time it's minimum 3 unless it's mad quiet. It's MORE than minimum wages on a normal night. And it's local deliveries so it's not like you're driving all over Dublin. It's really not bad money I don't know why your insisting it is.

And even if he was earning so little then it does not make it ok to rip off the pub for some easy cash.

Guy:Incognito · 13-02-2018 04:23PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

I'm not commenting on whether or not the guy is genuine or not but how much is someone's good name worth?

It's certainly worth more than €5k.

Good name to who? If he hadn't gone to court, the only people who'd have heard anything were whoever was within earshot in the pub.

Would your name be ruined anyway if people you know heard you went in to the pub, handed in a tenner and were told it's fake, then said OK and went on your way?

Unless they know you're a criminal or scumbag of some sort, most would just assume you got it in change and never noticed.

BattleCorp · 13-02-2018 05:06PM

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Good name to who? If he hadn't gone to court, the only people who'd have heard anything were whoever was within earshot in the pub.

Once other people hear it, it's enough to defame you. I don't know the facts of the case other than what is reported here but it does seem that there were others within earshot.

Would your name be ruined anyway if people you know heard you went in to the pub, handed in a tenner and were told it's fake, then said OK and went on your way?

Unless they know you're a criminal or scumbag of some sort, most would just assume you got it in change and never noticed.

I've highlighted an important word in your last sentence. That word is MOST. If MOST people would assume that you got it in change and never noticed, then logically it would also mean that others would not assume that you accidentally received it in change somewhere else. As long as some people believe that he was trying to pass off forged notes on purpose, then he has been defamed.

I think it has been missed by a lot of people in this thread (not necessarily yourself) but the Circuit Court has already agreed that the man has been defamed. The pub are appealing it to the High Court. Crazy really because it will end up costing the pub a lot more than the original €5k awarded to yer man.

TheChizler · 13-02-2018 05:49PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

I've highlighted an important word in your last sentence. That word is MOST. If MOST people would assume that you got it in change and never noticed, then logically it would also mean that others would not assume that you accidentally received it in change somewhere else. As long as some people believe that he was trying to pass off forged notes on purpose, then he has been defame.

For the likes of defamation isn't your reputation supposed to have been damaged in the eyes of a 'reasonable person', not 'some people'?

BattleCorp · 13-02-2018 06:34PM

TheChizler wrote: »

For the likes of defamation isn't your reputation supposed to have been damaged in the eyes of a 'reasonable person', not 'some people'?

The Circuit Court believed that he had been defamed.

If events transpired as the delivery driver said, he was also told to 'get out' by the barman. If that happened in combination with being told that the €10 was fake, then a reasonable person would think that the man was accused of trying to pass off a forgery as genuine.

dr.fuzzenstein · 13-02-2018 07:08PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

The Circuit Court believed that he had been defamed.

Those circuit court judges do be making some strange decisions after their liquid lunch.
Seriously, they're insane alcoholics most of them. At least going by their decisions on compensation.

wyf437gn6btzue · 13-02-2018 07:52PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

Once other people hear it, it's enough to defame you. I don't know the facts of the case other than what is reported here but it does seem that there were others within earshot.

I've highlighted an important word in your last sentence. That word is MOST. If MOST people would assume that you got it in change and never noticed, then logically it would also mean that others would not assume that you accidentally received it in change somewhere else. As long as some people believe that he was trying to pass off forged notes on purpose, then he has been defamed.

I think it has been missed by a lot of people in this thread (not necessarily yourself) but the Circuit Court has already agreed that the man has been defamed. The pub are appealing it to the High Court. Crazy really because it will end up costing the pub a lot more than the original €5k awarded to yer man.

I`d imagine the pub are appealing the decision in an attempt to restore their own good name, I`m sure their own legal representation stipulated the potential costs within doing so

Would it not be logical to think that if you were so worried about your good name, why would you go through a court with a case (thats so downright silly) that you are near guaranteed national coverage on it? So instead of a few local whispers, people the chap doesn't even know is having a good oul giggle at him.

What about the pubs good name?

BattleCorp · 13-02-2018 08:08PM

Tori Hollow Income wrote: »

I`d imagine the pub are appealing the decision in an attempt to restore their own good name, I`m sure their own legal representation stipulated the potential costs within doing so

Would it not be logical to think that if you were so worried about your good name, why would you go through a court with a case (thats so downright silly) that you are near guaranteed national coverage on it? So instead of a few local whispers, people the chap doesn't even know is having a good oul giggle at him.

What about the pubs good name?

Pure speculation here but maybe the man reckoned that he had already been defamed at a local level and it's at local level where being defamed would have most effect. The prospect of compensation probably played a part in his decision.

Yes, the pub is entitled to its good name but the pub didn't take him to court or even claim that he defamed them.

BattleCorp · 13-02-2018 08:09PM

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Those circuit court judges do be making some strange decisions after their liquid lunch.
Seriously, they're insane alcoholics most of them. At least going by their decisions on compensation.

The max in the circuit court is €75k. €60k for personal injury.

scamalert · 13-02-2018 08:19PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

The max in the circuit court is €75k. €60k for personal injury.

look at his pic clearly injured walking barrel. so whats to stop someone pulling same scam, wave fake tenner, be in luck outside garda station swap note come back sue place= free cash.

how is this done any harm to him, were the people in the pub all his friends, he didnt have another 10er on him.

Id be pissed off about being told ive holding fake but not to the point to make national news as biggest muppet.

wyf437gn6btzue · 13-02-2018 08:56PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

Pure speculation here but maybe the man reckoned that he had already been defamed at a local level and it's at local level where being defamed would have most effect. The prospect of compensation probably played a part in his decision.

Yes, the pub is entitled to its good name but the pub didn't take him to court or even claim that he defamed them.

Isn't that an intrinsic part of the claims process though? Its reasonable to expect the pub will have some sort of damage to reputation as a result of the courts proceedings?

dr.fuzzenstein · 15-02-2018 07:18AM

If the ruling is overturned, could the pub sue the delivery driver for defamation?
I can only hope so, because there should be serious consequences for greedy bastards like him who sue because they smell money.
In general the worst that can happen in Ireland is "ah hard luck, but maybe next time"

TheChizler · 15-02-2018 10:31AM

BattleCorp wrote: »

The Circuit Court believed that he had been defamed.

If events transpired as the delivery driver said, he was also told to 'get out' by the barman. If that happened in combination with being told that the €10 was fake, then a reasonable person would think that the man was accused of trying to pass off a forgery as genuine.

Possibly, but I'm questioning your assertion that the test relates to some people, not reasonable people.

To address your second point, why do we even have an appeals process if we should put so much weight on the circuit court's opinion?

dr.fuzzenstein · 17-02-2018 02:01PM

TheChizler wrote: »

Possibly, but I'm questioning your assertion that the test relates to some people, not reasonable people.

To address your second point, why do we even have an appeals process if we should put so much weight on the circuit court's opinion?

Because every verdict the circuit court gives out is based on rock-solid reasoning, evidence, years of experience and expert testimony.
The judges are so smart that we Normos with our average brains couldn't hope to understand their masterful and almost God-like command of the law, so we should not even question their verdicts or cast any doubt upon them.
Sure, some of those verdicts seem odd, contrived, insane even or not even based in reality, but see my points above.
Unless they get overturned on appeal, then they were all just a bunch of horseshi*t...
Like this one. But dare us mortals not question! It's a bit like the attitude towards politics in the 50's, "shure they know better than us mere mortals, who am I to question them"

Delivery driver sues pub for defamation after barman said €10 note was fake.

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