Another Sinn Fein blunder?

Brendan Bendar · 07-02-2018 09:05PM

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Inferring she has a whiff is a bit unkind to her.

[IMG]https://www.independent.ie/incoming/article35719548.ece/ALTERNATES/h342/II PRINCE 79 Read-Only.JPG[/IMG]

I'll have to teach you the difference between 'infer' and 'imply' sometime J.

Jawgap · 07-02-2018 09:29PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Guilty of hindsight bias there I'm afraid. As I said, he died in August 1940 (well before Wannsee and all that). What exactly did he 'collaborate' with the Nazis about?

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

A collaborator is someone who works for an enemy and usually an enemy who occupies his own country. Sean Russell was not French or Polish. Ireland was not occupied by the Germans. Ireland was not at war with Germany.

You've been reading British war comics and watching The Dam Busters again, haven't you?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Also known as the 'official script'.

Pity Maryisn'there to tell us all about her version of Russell.

Well, actually, that's not my assessment of Russell.......it's Dr Brian Hanley's view......'Oh Here's to Adolph Hitler'? The IRA and the Nazis' History Ireland, Vol. 13, No. 3 (May - Jun., 2005), pp. 31-35

Sean Russell may have been uninterested in political debate but he was hardly unaware of these matters. That he was happy to take up residence in Berlin as a guest of the Nazis, meet their high command and propose plans for military action in support of a German invasion was collaboration,whatever his private motivation.

Is there not something perverse about an Irish republican enjoying special privileges in the capital of a state that was embarked on a mission to conquer all of Europe?

Others would have collaborated too, of course, and the European experience suggests that many of the great and the good would have found reason to do so. But, unlike these hypothetical collaborators, the IRA actually wanted a German invasion and was in a position for a period to physically assist one. That is the central problem that many still refuse to face up to

Think he's talking about the shinnerbots there.

FrancieBrady · 07-02-2018 09:30PM

Have we uncovered a nest of FG online warriors me wonders.

Fine Gael TDs told to highlight Sinn Féin’s ‘whiff of sulphur’

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/fine-gael-tds-told-to-highlight-sinn-f%C3%A9in-s-whiff-of-sulphur-1.2349121

cycle4fun · 07-02-2018 09:36PM

Nice try for another diversion, Francie.

I'd say there is more likely to be a collection of SFOS (Sinn Fein Online Supporters), paid or unpaid, on the thread.

FrancieBrady · 07-02-2018 09:44PM

cycle4fun wrote: »

Nice try for another diversion, Francie.

I'd say there is more likely to be a collection of SFOS (Sinn Fein Online Supporters), paid or unpaid, on the thread.

Curious that you used the exact term, when you couldn't get anymore milage out of a gym owner (remember the gym owner) not adhering to strict rules and regs (remember them, they haven't shown up either) governing the use and lending of boltcutters.

07-02-2018 09:55PM

Jawgap wrote: »

Well, actually, that's not my assessment of Russell.......it's Dr Brian Hanley's view......'Oh Here's to Adolph Hitler'? The IRA and the Nazis' History Ireland, Vol. 13, No. 3 (May - Jun., 2005), pp. 31-35

Hanley is entitled to his views, but labelling Russell in terms of 'collaboration' is taking the lazy viewpoint IMO.

Lahousen:

According to Haller, ‘the German motive for sending Ryan [to Ireland] was that Russell, throughout his stay in Germany, had shown considerable reticence towards the Germans and plainly did not regard himself as a German agent’.

https://www.historyireland.com/20th-century-contemporary-history/new-evidence-on-iranazi-links/

Junkyard Tom · 07-02-2018 09:58PM

Jawgap wrote: »

Think he's talking about the shinnerbots there.

It's funny that you describe people who don't subscribe to your version of history as 'shinnerbots' when you exhibit very bot-like behaviour when it comes to anything to do with SF.

blanch152 · 07-02-2018 10:00PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I wasn't.

I work for and want a UI for those reasons set out above.

I don't believe there are any huge obstacles other than 'I'm alright Jack' selfishness to it.

That last sentence exposes how far "good" republicans are away from recognising what is required to persuade others that a united Ireland is a good idea.

If that's all they think the opposition is about, they are deluded.

Jawgap · 07-02-2018 10:02PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Hanley is entitled to his views, but labelling Russell in terms of 'collaboration' is taking the lazy viewpoint IMO.

Lahousen:

https://www.historyireland.com/20th-century-contemporary-history/new-evidence-on-iranazi-links/

Tell you what, you stick with the journo's assessment, I'll stick with the professional historian's

cycle4fun · 07-02-2018 10:05PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Curious that you used the exact term

As if some of them here never heard of it. lol

FrancieBrady wrote: »

, when you couldn't get anymore milage out of a gym owner (remember the gym owner) not adhering to strict rules and regs (remember them, they haven't shown up either) governing the use and lending of boltcutters.

See post 411.

It was wheeliebin who said,do you " think a gym will just hand out boltcutters to a member of the public without questions asked.
Anybody who has worked somewhere with a boltcutters will know the strict rules regarding the use of them on-site."

I pointed out there are numerous safety guidelines online with regard to boltcutters, here are just two of them from 7 tips on one page:

" Wear Protective Clothing
The bolt cutter has extremely sharp edges. It is best to wear heavy duty gloves when working. This will protect your hands from accidental cuts. Gloves also give you a firm grip which minimizes slips when cutting. You also need to wear safety goggles or a face shield. Tiny fragments of metal may fly through the air during cutting. Should these land on your face, injuries could result.

Handle Cutters Carefully
Avoid running your fingers over the blade edges to test for sharpness. The sharp blades of the bolt cropper can easily cut through your flesh."

N.B Francie, you still have not answered how the link in the chain could be replaced: your "link" (no pun intended) does not explain.

FrancieBrady · 07-02-2018 10:06PM

blanch152 wrote: »

That last sentence exposes how far "good" republicans are away from recognising what is required to persuade others that a united Ireland is a good idea.

If that's all they think the opposition is about, they are deluded.

I am not all that bothered persuading a few recalcitrant partitionists or belligerent unionists Blanch.

A UI is heading this way despite the above.

Jawgap · 07-02-2018 10:07PM

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

It's funny that you describe people who don't subscribe to your version of history as 'shinnerbots' when you exhibit very bot-like behaviour when it comes to anything to do with SF.

That's not my version of history, that's a professional historian's interpretation of events.

I have no version, because I've not studied that aspect of that period.......that's why I cited the dork of someone who is more familiar with the material.

Yeah, I'll happily admit to having an active contempt for the shinners.......I've seen them in action and what they helped do in the part of the city I grew up in.

cycle4fun · 07-02-2018 10:10PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I am not all that bothered persuading a few recalcitrant partitionists or belligerent unionists Blanch.

You have been asked before and I think you declined to answer, but perhaps you may answer now.
Do you think your work
(a) helps Sinn Fein
(b) hinders Sinn Fein

N.B. I think you will find the majority is wise to Sinn Fein / know what they done, not just "a few recalcitrant partitionists or belligerent unionists"

FrancieBrady · 07-02-2018 10:11PM

cycle4fun wrote: »

As if some of them here never heard of it. lol

Oh I heard it before alright, when FG instructed it's members to bring it up when stuck.
That's why I went looking for the article.

See post 411.

It was wheeliebin who said,do you " think a gym will just hand out boltcutters to a member of the public without questions asked.
Anybody who has worked somewhere with a boltcutters will know the strict rules regarding the use of them on-site."

I pointed out there are numerous safety guidelines online with regard to boltcutters, here are just two of them from 7 tips on one page:

" Wear Protective Clothing
The bolt cutter has extremely sharp edges. It is best to wear heavy duty gloves when working. This will protect your hands from accidental cuts. Gloves also give you a firm grip which minimizes slips when cutting. You also need to wear safety goggles or a face shield. Tiny fragments of metal may fly through the air during cutting. Should these land on your face, injuries could result.

Handle Cutters Carefully
Avoid running your fingers over the blade edges to test for sharpness. The sharp blades of the bolt cropper can easily cut through your flesh."

N.B Francie, you still have not answered how the link in the chain could be replaced: your "link" (no pun intended) does not explain.

Sugar comes with guidelines but people give it to others all the time.

Most tools are dangerous if wrongly used.

Still not seeing any rules governing lending boltcutters out to people you know.

FrancieBrady · 07-02-2018 10:13PM

cycle4fun wrote: »

You have been asked before and I think you declined to answer, but perhaps you may answer now.
Do you think your work
(a) helps Sinn Fein
(b) hinders Sinn Fein

I couldn't give a monkey's tbh.

cycle4fun · 07-02-2018 10:17PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Still not seeing any rules governing lending boltcutters out to people you know.

The gym does not have rules on lending boltcutters out to people, because when asked on the phone do they lend boltcutters they said no.

07-02-2018 10:19PM

Jawgap wrote: »

Tell you what, you stick with the journo's assessment, I'll stick with the professional historian's

It's Lahousen's own viewpoint that I quoted. Btw, Hanley talks about Russell's lack of interest in political discourse.

EDIT: and the 'journo' of that piece as you disparagingly referred to him as is none other than David O'Donoghue. I reckon you know who he is and what he's published.

McMurphy · 07-02-2018 10:23PM

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

I'll have to teach you the difference between 'infer' and 'imply' sometime J.

Oh I know the difference in the two Brendan, and specifically chose the one I posted

Junkyard Tom · 07-02-2018 10:23PM

Jawgap wrote: »

That's not my version of history, that's a professional historian's interpretation of events.

Ooh a professional historian? Like Ruth Dudley Edwards? I'm sure if I was bored enough I could find other historians who'd refute the hindsight judgements of Mr Hanley.

His postulations towards the end of the piece are embarrassing - a professional historian painting alternative realities. Oh dear.

FrancieBrady · 07-02-2018 10:24PM

cycle4fun wrote: »

The gym does not have rules on lending boltcutters out to people, because when asked on the phone do they lend boltcutters they said no.

This is what he said and what you quoted.

Anybody who has worked somewhere with a boltcutters will know the strict rules regarding the use of them on-site."

Where are these 'strict rules'?

the sheriff is HERE · 07-02-2018 10:27PM

cycle4fun wrote: »

The gym does not have rules on lending boltcutters out to people, because when asked on the phone do they lend boltcutters they said no.

Of course they would say that, they don't want that publicity, did you specifically ask did they lend Gerry Kelly boltcutters?

cycle4fun · 07-02-2018 10:34PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

This is what he said and what you quoted.

Where are these 'strict rules'?

Already posted. And do you really think a gym will just hand out boltcutters to a member of the public without questions asked?

McMurphy · 07-02-2018 10:36PM

cycle4fun wrote: »

Already posted. And do you really think a gym will just hand out boltcutters to a member of the public without questions asked?

FrancieBrady · 07-02-2018 10:37PM

cycle4fun wrote: »

Already posted. And do you really think a gym will just hand out boltcutters to a member of the public without questions asked?

A gym will help a good customer if it can. He's an adult, boltcutters dangers are fairly obvious.
There are patently NO rules governing this as you cannot produce anything but safety advice. Like that which accompanies any tool.

cycle4fun · 07-02-2018 10:39PM

Phoebas wrote: »

When Gerry Kelly asks for the bolt cutters, you hand them over and you thank Gerry Kelly for asking. :eek:

Perhaps.

Jawgap wrote: »

If he wasn't giong to resign over the sectarian leaflets, he's hardly going to be bothered by a few quids' worth of damage to a padlock.

Plus, did anybody really think that someone who shot another person in the head while breaking out from a prison was going to be bothered by a pesky little chain?

If had not parked on yellow lines near the side of the road he would not have got clamped. Did he ever remove a clamp before, or have others remove it for him I wonder?

FrancieBrady · 07-02-2018 10:44PM

Tangent deployed.

cycle4fun · 07-02-2018 10:44PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A gym will help a good customer if it can.

By pointing out the proper car park on the other side of the building. Not by lending industrial type tools to do what some would see as criminal damage.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There are patently NO rules governing this as you cannot produce anything but safety advice. Like that which accompanies any tool.

Any tool? I do not think so. Does a screwdriver (which could be dangerous in the hands of some) come with these rules:
" Wear Protective Clothing
The bolt cutter has extremely sharp edges. It is best to wear heavy duty gloves when working. This will protect your hands from accidental cuts. Gloves also give you a firm grip which minimizes slips when cutting. You also need to wear safety goggles or a face shield. Tiny fragments of metal may fly through the air during cutting. Should these land on your face, injuries could result.

Handle Cutters Carefully
Avoid running your fingers over the blade edges to test for sharpness. The sharp blades of the bolt cropper can easily cut through your flesh."

FrancieBrady · 07-02-2018 10:51PM

cycle4fun wrote: »

By pointing out the proper car park on the other side of the building.

After he got clamped????

I'd be moving gym if some smartarse said that to me.

Any tool? I do not think so. Does a screwdriver (which could be dangerous in the hands of some) come with these rules:
" Wear Protective Clothing
The bolt cutter has extremely sharp edges. It is best to wear heavy duty gloves when working. This will protect your hands from accidental cuts. Gloves also give you a firm grip which minimizes slips when cutting. You also need to wear safety goggles or a face shield. Tiny fragments of metal may fly through the air during cutting. Should these land on your face, injuries could result.

Handle Cutters Carefully
Avoid running your fingers over the blade edges to test for sharpness. The sharp blades of the bolt cropper can easily cut through your flesh."

Safety advice.
NOT 'strict rules'.

This is also safety advice.

https%3A%2F%2Fimages.forbes.com%2Fmedia%2F2011%2F02%2F23%2F0223_warning-labels-hairdryer_485x340.jpg

Jawgap · 08-02-2018 06:56AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's Lahousen's own viewpoint that I quoted. Btw, Hanley talks about Russell's lack of interest in political discourse.

EDIT: and the 'journo' of that piece as you disparagingly referred to him as is none other than David O'Donoghue. I reckon you know who he is and what he's published.

Yes, and I'm not disparaging him. Journos write from a particular perspective - their motives, while perfectly valid, are not the same as a professional historian.

But if you enjoy reading him, go right ahead and continue to do so.

Jawgap · 08-02-2018 07:19AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's Lahousen's own viewpoint that I quoted. Btw, Hanley talks about Russell's lack of interest in political discourse.

EDIT: and the 'journo' of that piece as you disparagingly referred to him as is none other than David O'Donoghue. I reckon you know who he is and what he's published.

Yes, and I'm not disparaging him. Journos write from a particular perspective - their motives, while perfectly valid, are not the same as a professional historian.

But if you enjoy reading him, go right ahead and continue to do so.

Another Sinn Fein blunder?

Comments