RAW Superthread

Well they do seem to be going somewhere with him. Letting the fans get to him. His desperation to get to Mania. His seeming exhaustion during this match. We can only hope this is leading somewhere and isn't just Cena doing it for no reason

DM_7 wrote:

Or he can just be for comedy, Chris and Kevin was very Team Hell No.

Nothing alike other than being memorable to fans.
Jeri-Ko were clearly heels despite the humour all of it was building towards one of them eventually turning on one another which was always coming. Zayn & Owens are doing basically the same thing now to significantly less success.
They were never even tag champs unlike Hell No but were not booked as a dysfunctional team either. Instead their run was more about Jericho helping Owens remain world champion to lead to a match at the end of the run as a team whereas Hell No branched off into other storylines before ever having a rivalry after breaking up.
Sorry but your argument that Jericho is like Kane & Big Show is utter nonsense unlike those 2 he was in a good storyline the last few years & his character has changed in those years also. His matches with Styles & Owens weren't near as good as the Omega one(probably cause they had the right match for the right story) but were still better than the series of matches Owens & AJ had with one another last summer.

I really hope they don't do Cena/Taker at WM.

5+ years ago, it could've been incredible. Now, it's just a busted up auld fella with no streak vs half-arsed Hollywood John in a "Who cares" match.

Disagree with the Jericho comparison personally. Had enjoyable matches with AJ, Roman, Owens (was underwhelming considering the build, but I'd imagine as he's alluded to on his podcast their hands were tied as to what they could and couldn't do in the match, but as a standalone ignoring the build it's a solid match) and many others. Can re-invent himself at the drop of a hat, had probably the most over gimmick in a long time in "The List", not to mention one of the best segments in a long time with the Festival of Friendship. Is always over with the fans, they're always excited to see him.

He had a terrible run with Ambrose, which I still maintain was down to Ambrose which I've detailed on the forum more than once (he had an awful 12-18 months where the majority of his matches and feuds dragged) so I'm not going into detail again. He then goes to NJPW and has a fantastic match with Omega and creates more mainstream buzz that entire company has seen internationally probably in its entire history. I just don't see the comparison to Kane or Big Show. The last memorable things I can remember either of them being involved in is Team Hell No which was years ago and New Year's Baby and that's for all the wrong reasons. In terms of memorable matches either have then have been involved in....honestly I can't recall any.

I also don't get the idea that Cena doesn't have stock anymore. Yes he's losing more, but it's not like he's losing to Curt Hawkins. He's losing to guys they're trying to establish. And these losses don't hurt him because he's been on top longer than probably any star since Bruno. No mean feat. He's essentially bullet proof and still the franchise player. When they're stuck, or need a ratings pop, Cena is who they can rely on. Not Balor, Kane, Show, Styles, Nakumura, or Owens. It's always Cena. The only two people that come close to getting more eyes on the shows is Brock and Taker. That's pretty decent company to be in regardless of your thoughts on any of them.

DM_7 wrote:

How Chris is used by WWE and how he is perceived by fans are not the same. How Kane is used and how the fans see him do not really marry together either. The point is, instead of a big deal, Cena is heading to same booking spot Jericho or Kane or yes Big Show ended up as they got older. Unless in Cena's case it is part of a story.

To an extent I see what you mean but ultimately I think this will have to be an agree to disagree type of situation. Maybe as time goes on you'll end up being 100% correct. But for now, I just feel that both the average mainstream viewer and smart fan view Cena and Jericho on a much higher level to Kane and Big Show. When Cena and Jericho return or are involved in a decent segment/moment/match it has people like us discussing it on forums like this and occasionally gets mainstream coverage on the likes of Rolling Stone, IGN, Lad Bible etc. I can't say I can say the same thing about Kane or Show.

DM_7 wrote:

In case I was not clear enough, I am not talking about how fans view them.


I am categorising them together based on how WWE use them.

No I get what you're saying (or at least, I think I do) but what I'm saying is that regardless of how similarly they're booked or not booked, that, as you said yourself, the fans perception of them is different and I guess if I were to boil it down to a overused cliché it would be that because the fans view them differently, that's what makes them completely different and incomparable, because perception (to an extent) is reality.

Like you're right in the sense that if you're looking at the cold facts, Show, Kane, Jericho and Cena are all aging stars that are arguably taking up upper mid card to main event spots that younger up and comers could be in. But my point is, because fans view Jericho and Cena on a different level to Kane and Show in terms of character and in-ring ability and general overall status, a victory over either of them (them being Jericho and Cena) will always mean more than a victory over Show and Kane. Similarly, if Kane or Show went on one last main event title holding run, most people would roll their eyes and sigh in disbelief, but if Jericho/Cena did it, fans would accept it if not root for it, because they know how to present themselves to a higher standard. At least in my opinion anyways.

kopite386 wrote: »

Which she won't win as let's face it when Askua loses it will be at one of the big 4 PPV's

Never under estimate the poor booking of modern day wwe. Im conditioned to expect it.

That said Asuka has faired well since moving to the main roster.

beakerjoe wrote: »

Never under estimate the poor booking of modern day wwe. Im conditioned to expect it.

That said Asuka has faired well since moving to the main roster.

That's true I don't expect her to go on a streak as long as she did in NXT

So watch her win the title at WM hold it for a while and then decide she wants to become smack down champion so willingly dropping the raw championship and then get beat at Wrestlemania next year ?

sky88 wrote: »

Raw in bayleys hometown and sasha being kinda heelish since the rumble i smell a turn

https://twitter.com/RealKurtAngle/status/963095924204433409

I know we are all thinking that Sasha is going to turn which she should seeing as she is a better heel, I have a feeling they are going to turn Bayley heel. They have her teaming with Elias in the mixed match challenge and in some live event coming up. However, turning Bayley heel would be a bad idea. As I read somewhere turning Bayley heel will only give her the same reception that Jason Jordan was getting.

beakerjoe wrote: »

I smell a turn, but not for Sasha.

That would be much better

Raw has been getting steadily better the last while unlike smackdown so theres always hope theyd do it right but its the hope that kills you