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Cork IS running this year

  • 29-01-2018 1:35pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,862 ✭✭✭


    Gerry Graham mentioned at the Gonzaga prizegiving yesterday that Cork is off this year.


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 12 Asdee


    Have not heard that. did he say why?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,862 ✭✭✭mikhail


    Gerry didn't. I heard a rumour that the usual venue upped their rates sharply.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,300 ✭✭✭sodacat11


    It would have been very near to the Easter tournaments anyway. Cork is a very good tournament but the Metropole Hotel sure knows how to rip people off with its exorbitant single room supplement. No harm if they get a new venue.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 627 ✭✭✭Retd.LoyolaCpt


    Cork is currently scheduled for the 5-7 October (provisionally). UCD will be running an event on 18th March.


  • Registered Users Posts: 290 ✭✭Rathminor


    Cork is currently scheduled for the 5-7 October (provisionally). UCD will be running an event on 18th March.

    The October date could work very well. Galway used to have this slot, but there was a long gap from the COD to Limerick.
    With St Andrews now on the calendar and Cork possibly moving to October, it will give much more early season events when people are keen to play.
    Any word on whether there will be a Galway Congress this year?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,300 ✭✭✭sodacat11


    I asked Pete Morris a few weeks ago if Galway would be on and he said that he didn't know yet. Galway is another very good tournament as was Enniscorthy the one time they had it. I'm very much looking forward to Easter,it is so rare that we get a chance to play in an all play all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12 Asdee


    Is the commons inn hotel a suitable alternative?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,300 ✭✭✭sodacat11


    Asdee wrote: »
    Is the commons inn hotel a suitable alternative?

    I don't know it . Any hotel that offers reasonable rates and car parking is fine with me. I think that both Gonzaga and St Andrews schools have shown that good venues needn't necessarily be hotels. Decent lighting, comfortable seating,space, heat and a degree of silence is all that any tournament venue needs but obviously car parking and accommodation need to be available close by too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3 GubbinsIE


    Cork Congress is definitely running this year 5-7 October in the usual venue. Entry on the ICU website, full details on the flyer on the Cork Chess Club website. Can't post links myself.

    The Metropole is offering a room rate for congress attendees €99 single B&B, €109 double/twin B&B. If The Metropole doesn't suit there are a load of other Hostel, B&B and Hotel options in the immediate area (Coburg Street, MacCurtain Street, Wellington Road & Summerhill North).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,862 ✭✭✭mikhail




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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 108 ✭✭ComDubh


    Can someone please change the thread title to "Cork IS running this year?"


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,265 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Done!

    Good to see it back


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,648 ✭✭✭Autochange


    Pretty sure Tom McGlinchy posted a message on the RCF stating Cork IS on this year


  • Registered Users Posts: 12 Asdee


    So are the MCU running their competition at another time. They've normally run it in September also?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,648 ✭✭✭Autochange


    Asdee wrote: »
    So are the MCU running their competition at another time. They've normally run it in September also?

    It's been pushed to October as it's clashing with the Ttf open


  • Registered Users Posts: 12 Asdee


    Autochange wrote: »
    It's been pushed to October as it's clashing with the Ttf open
    'ttf"?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,334 ✭✭✭reunion


    Just a reminder that the discounted rate for Cork is Sunday!

    https://www.icu.ie/events/975

    €50 entry fee is a bit steep! So get the entries in on or before this Sunday!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,300 ✭✭✭sodacat11


    Not a huge entry for the Cork Congress yet which is surprising considering that it is usually very well attended. I would have thought that the recent Irish Championships and the current Olympiad would have whetted people's appetites for chess as well as Cork offering the chance to brush off the cobwebs before the leagues begin. There is no doubt that a lot of players in the 1900 - 2200 bracket are simply afraid to lose rating points by entering tournaments where they would be among the higher seeds but it is hard to fathom why the rest of the chess world has become so lazy about supporting weekenders.


  • Registered Users Posts: 119 ✭✭Past_Pawn_99


    sodacat11 wrote: »
    Not a huge entry for the Cork Congress yet which is surprising considering that it is usually very well attended. I would have thought that the recent Irish Championships and the current Olympiad would have whetted people's appetites for chess as well as Cork offering the chance to brush off the cobwebs before the leagues begin. There is no doubt that a lot of players in the 1900 - 2200 bracket are simply afraid to lose rating points by entering tournaments where they would be among the higher seeds but it is hard to fathom why the rest of the chess world has become so lazy about supporting weekenders.

    The lack of fide rating and the tightly packed schedule are what would put me off playing a tournament like this, even if I wasn’t attending a family birthday that weekend. There’s also the simple fact that accommodation in ireland is expensive. A three night stay at the Cork venue will cost the same as my 10 night stay at the Malta Open this November, which is not only fide rated but 3 rounds longer with a stronger field and better schedule. This is not the organizer’s fault of course, they can’t make the hotel any cheaper, but they will have to offer more attractive conditions such as what is offered at the Limerick Open, which I am playing myself at the end of next month, or the Gonzaga Classic.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,300 ✭✭✭sodacat11


    . A three night stay at the Cork venue will cost the same as my 10 night stay at the Malta Open this November, which is not only fide rated but 3 rounds longer with a stronger field and better schedule. This is not the organizer’s fault of course, they can’t make the hotel any cheaper, but they will have to offer more attractive conditions such as what is offered at the Limerick Open, which I am playing myself at the end of next month, or the Gonzaga Classic.

    The Malta Open sounds very interesting. Have you played in it before? Is the hotel nice? Do many people bring their wives/partners with them?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 119 ✭✭Past_Pawn_99


    sodacat11 wrote: »
    The Malta Open sounds very interesting. Have you played in it before? Is the hotel nice? Do many people bring their wives/partners with them?

    I will send you a PM as to not derail the thread.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,334 ✭✭✭reunion


    Personally I think September/early October is a bad time for a tournament. People have just started school/come back from holidays and are just setting back into routine/still thinking of sunshine at weekends. 

    Accommodation wise there are plenty of options around cork. Kilkenny is equally as expensive for accommodation and I'm not sure why you'd need 3 days accommodation!


  • Registered Users Posts: 119 ✭✭Past_Pawn_99


    reunion wrote: »
    Personally I think September/early October is a bad time for a tournament. People have just started school/come back from holidays and are just setting back into routine/still thinking of sunshine at weekends. 

    Accommodation wise there are plenty of options around cork. Kilkenny is equally as expensive for accommodation and I'm not sure why you'd need 3 days accommodation!

    I would not be playing Kilkenny either for pretty much the same reasons but I will be playing in Malta so it's not really a decision.

    Yes, I suppose you could only stay the 2 nights and it would be cheaper but I prefer to enjoy the Sunday evening rather than rush home. However for what is being offered I still don't see it being worth it compared to other events.


  • Registered Users Posts: 883 ✭✭✭eclipsechaser


    Gonzaga are bringing 14 extra players so that should bump up numbers a bit. Agreed that the previous March/April slot would be more attractive. We'd probably have double the numbers coming at that time of year.

    I thought the twin-room deal with The Gresham was pretty reasonable given that it's quite a nice hotel.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,300 ✭✭✭sodacat11


    I thought the twin-room deal with The Gresham was pretty reasonable given that it's quite a nice hotel.

    Yeah the twin room deal is good but the price for a single room stinks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 883 ✭✭✭eclipsechaser


    sodacat11 wrote: »
    Yeah the twin room deal is good but the price for a single room stinks.

    That must be to encourage you to bring a chess-playing friend and increase the numbers :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,334 ✭✭✭reunion


    Hopefully people bring some friends!

    Does anyone know if Filip Sand is playing the Masters section? It's the default option when paying so my guess is he should be in the Minors?

    Will Pat Twomey play up or will there be an odd number in the Masters?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,300 ✭✭✭sodacat11


    reunion wrote: »

    Does anyone know if Filip Sand is playing the Masters section? It's the default option when paying so my guess is he should be in the Minors?
    ?

    Seems silly to allow such a low rated player in if it is going to mean that five players who are eligible to play are going to have to take a bye. This is exactly the sort of nonsense that puts people off supporting a tournament.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 627 ✭✭✭Retd.LoyolaCpt


    sodacat11 wrote: »
    Seems silly to allow such a low rated player in if it is going to mean that five players who are eligible to play are going to have to take a bye. This is exactly the sort of nonsense that puts people off supporting a tournament.

    His National rating is 1900+ which is being counted.

    There are now 60 entries, with 20 in the masters so Numbers have ticked along well in the last week.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,300 ✭✭✭sodacat11


    His National rating is 1900+ which is being counted.

    There are now 60 entries, with 20 in the masters so Numbers have ticked along well in the last week.

    I'm glad to hear that the rating floor is being observed! It is good to see that the tournament is now being well supported, the venue and playing conditions are excellent and the competition should be fierce.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,300 ✭✭✭sodacat11


    A few late entries have made Cork a very interesting tournament. The top three seeds are all 2200s so not invincible by any means and there are a lot of up and coming younger players playing too. The hotel is very nice and the playing conditions are excellent so it should be a very enjoyable weekend as long as I don't lose a stack of rating points.
    A coupe of things I should mention.Firstly it was announced tonight that next year's tournament will be on the same weekend. This doesn't make any sense to me as St Andrews are planning to hold their excellent congress either the last weekend in September or the first in October. Both are excellent tournaments that I would love to see flourish but they are shooting themselves in the foot by competing with each other. March is a barren month for chess, could the organisers of Cork and St Andrews not email each other and agree that one tournament is held around now and the other in March?
    Secondly, the arbiter announced tonight that the pairings and results could not be posted on the ICU site because of this new data protection crappy law. This is political correctness gone stark raving bonkers. I cannot believe that to publish a draw for a tournament would in any way break the law.How is it that football fixtures can be published as can golf scores, quotes from people, adresses of people who appear in court etc etc etc . If the draw, results and games from a chess tournament cannot be put online then all news reporting and media activity must be illegal. The whole thing really is a joke. IF the data laws are that strict then what's to stop a footballer who scores an own goal or gets sent off from barring SKY and The BBC from showing the incident? I really cannot believe that any law could be that stupid. Maybe the Cork organisers are just a teeny weeny bit paranoid???


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 627 ✭✭✭Retd.LoyolaCpt


    sodacat11 wrote: »
    A few late entries have made Cork a very interesting tournament. The top three seeds are all 2200s so not invincible by any means and there are a lot of up and coming younger players playing too. The hotel is very nice and the playing conditions are excellent so it should be a very enjoyable weekend as long as I don't lose a stack of rating points.
    A coupe of things I should mention.Firstly it was announced tonight that next year's tournament will be on the same weekend. This doesn't make any sense to me as St Andrews are planning to hold their excellent congress either the last weekend in September or the first in October. Both are excellent tournaments that I would love to see flourish but they are shooting themselves in the foot by competing with each other. March is a barren month for chess, could the organisers of Cork and St Andrews not email each other and agree that one tournament is held around now and the other in March?
    Secondly, the arbiter announced tonight that the pairings and results could not be posted on the ICU site because of this new data protection crappy law. This is political correctness gone stark raving bonkers. I cannot believe that to publish a draw for a tournament would in any way break the law.How is it that football fixtures can be published as can golf scores, quotes from people, adresses of people who appear in court etc etc etc . If the draw, results and games from a chess tournament cannot be put online then all news reporting and media activity must be illegal. The whole thing really is a joke. IF the data laws are that strict then what's to stop a footballer who scores an own goal or gets sent off from barring SKY and The BBC from showing the incident? I really cannot believe that any law could be that stupid. Maybe the Cork organisers are just a teeny weeny bit paranoid???

    Andrew’s can’t move - September/October is the only time the school permits. I imagine it will grow and grow similar to the way Gonzaga did - Ross and Desmond doing great work; particularly with the live boards this year. I think I’d be more worried about Andrew’s being on the heels of 2 Dublin events rather than Cork. With no Olympiad next year (and moved to August for 2020) - planning should be a little easier for the next few years in that regard. Next year it will probably look something like:
    CoD: 6-8 September
    Blitz/Rapid/AGM: 21-22 (or whatever suits andrews)
    Andrew’s: 27-29 September

    I’d hope Cork would again be two weeks away if they are sticking to October so 11-13. Then two further weeks to Limerick.

    From memory, Cork suffered last time out (in March) because it was up against about 20 LCU fixtures; a freak accident (I think the LCU had even allowed for it but the date moved one week from the original plan). This time it’s up against some LCU fixtures and the Olympiad, while the date-change will always initially cost numbers. 80 is good in the circumstances - well done to Mark and his team.

    Galway will be back in March this year so that’s at least one event - and the LCU have a plethora of fixtures then too. It was only 18 months ago that March was one of the most congested months; Galway, Cork, and the NCC.

    April will then be congested as usual so we may move the NCC to March like 2017 (tricky though as LCU fixtures are cleared the weekend we originally planned for NCC in April). At the moment it’s:
    NCC
    Irish Juniors
    Easter Open
    Last round of LCU Leagues

    Discussions do go on in the background between most organisers - but sometimes it just doesn’t suit particular events to take a better or at least more free weekend.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,300 ✭✭✭sodacat11


    It is great that we have so many fine tournaments. Fixture congestion is a much nicer problem to have than scarcity of tournaments.

    Cork now has live games, results and pairings on its own Cork Congress website so perhaps the GDPR paranoia lies elsewhere?


  • Registered Users Posts: 271 ✭✭zeitnot


    sodacat11 wrote: »
    It is great that we have so many fine tournaments. Fixture congestion is a much nicer problem to have than scarcity of tournaments.

    Cork now has live games, results and pairings on its own Cork Congress website so perhaps the GDPR paranoia lies elsewhere?
    The live games stop after a couple of moves.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,300 ✭✭✭sodacat11


    I have been complaining about three games on a Saturday for ages and usually I take a bye on the sat night but since I was going well I decided to play tonight,,,,,,,,,,BIG mistake. After 22 moves my advantage was 2.53 and my opponent could barely move any of his pieces then I blundered a pawn followed by a rook soon after. Even my opponent apologized for such a rubbishy game. All we could do at the end was laugh about it. It is not unusual for players of 2000 strength to play like 1300 players in these Saturday night games, they are just a complete farce for most people. The recent survey( albeit not a big one) showed that most people prefer 5 games in a tournament. If organisers persist with six then people will just stop going to tournaments as they get older ( many probably have already).


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  • Registered Users Posts: 119 ✭✭Past_Pawn_99


    sodacat11 wrote: »
    I have been complaining about three games on a Saturday for ages and usually I take a bye on the sat night but since I was going well I decided to play tonight,,,,,,,,,,BIG mistake. After 22 moves my advantage was 2.53 and my opponent could barely move any of his pieces then I blundered a pawn followed by a rook soon after. Even my opponent apologized for such a rubbishy game. All we could do at the end was laugh about it. It is not unusual for players of 2000 strength to play like 1300 players in these Saturday night games, they are just a complete farce for most people. The recent survey( albeit not a big one) showed that most people prefer 5 games in a tournament. If organisers persist with six then people will just stop going to tournaments as they get older ( many probably have already).

    The preference for 5 rounds is definitely prevalent in us younger players too, atleast within the circles I’m in.

    Unfortunate about your loss :(


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,300 ✭✭✭sodacat11


    The preference for 5 rounds is definitely prevalent in us younger players too, atleast within the circles I’m in.

    Unfortunate about your loss :(

    You'd think that arbiters would welcome it too.

    Nothing unfortunate about the loss, we were both tired and making nonsensical moves. Just a matter of who made the final blunder. I am not going to play any more Saturday night games even if I have to default. At least that wouldn't cost any rating points.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,300 ✭✭✭sodacat11


    Cork was a very well run and pleasant tournament which I enjoyed very much despite being completely off my game. It was sad though not to see Philip Short standing in the doorway of the hotel puffing away contentedly before and after each round or to hear his infectious laugh in the bar at night. It was nice that the organisers called for a few minutes silence at the start of the tournament to remember him.
    On a lighter note I must tell you about a humorous and instructive thing that happened in the Major tournament. Some eternal optimist was trying to win with King and Pawn v King and Bishop when his flag fell.The players did not know the rules in this situation (neither did I as it happens) so they agreed a draw ,which is what I would have thought was the correct result, however on appeal the result was overturned and the win given to the guy with the Bishop on the grounds that the other player could have promoted his pawn to a knight then facilitated a kind of self mate by placing his King on a1 and Knight on a2 while his opponent (to move) has his King on c2 and his Bishop on a3. The whole thing seems ludicrous to me, but dem's da rules.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,265 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Same thing happened one of our players in a foreign tournament (though he had the bishop). Change in the rules a few years back alright. Bit silly, but arguably so is losing on time when you have increments


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 108 ✭✭ComDubh


    If they actually agreed a draw, then a draw is the correct result. Perhaps one player claimed the draw, which is a different matter I guess.

    The 'mate possible' rule is tough, but it's clear!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,300 ✭✭✭sodacat11


    ComDubh wrote: »
    If they actually agreed a draw, then a draw is the correct result. Perhaps one player claimed the draw, which is a different matter I guess.

    The 'mate possible' rule is tough, but it's clear!

    I made that very point about agreeing the draw but apparently once the flag falls the game is over, you can't agree a draw after that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 119 ✭✭Past_Pawn_99


    I think it depends what was noticed first. If the players agreed a draw and then notice the flag had fell its a draw. If they notice the flag had fell and then agree a draw whoever’s flag had fallen loses.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 954 ✭✭✭Tim Harding


    I think it depends what was noticed first. If the players agreed a draw and then notice the flag had fell its a draw. If they notice the flag had fell and then agree a draw whoever’s flag had fallen loses.

    Correct. FIDE competition rules 5.2.3 and 6.8.

    Draw agreement, resignation, checkmate and stalemate all immediately end the game. A flag is considered to have fallen when it is noticed or claimed.
    So if any of those modes of ending the game occur before anyone calls a flag fall, the clock is irrelevant.

    If the flag is called first, this takes precedence and so you cannot agree a gentlemanly draw once a flag falls.

    The player whose flag has been noticed to have fallen loses, unless his opponent cannot checkmate him by any sequence of legal moves.

    The hard case above with the B v P is covered by 6.9. That also governs some amusing examples where the player to move, whose flag falls, has only one legal move which brings about immediate checkmate or stalemate. Those cases are also drawn, even if the opponent has "mating material", because no sequence of legal moves could win the game.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,300 ✭✭✭sodacat11


    Another "hard case" I had once in Australia cost me a high placing in a big tournament and a nice big juicy cheque. In the final round we reached a position after over 60 moves where I had a Ke1,Qf2,pawn d7 and Re8 V Kg8, Rf8, pawns f7,g7,h7 and Qh4 with Black to move. Black has nothing better than a perpetual but instead of accepting a draw he tried to win on time by repeatedly checking me from various squares. All I have to be careful about is that he can't pick up my pawn with a check so I just kept interposing my Queen. There was no increment and we had both long since stopped recording moves but the arbiter was watching and a large crowd of spectators was watching. I tried to claim a draw on the grounds that he was just trying to win on time and then I tried to claim one under the 50 move rule,both claims were rejected and eventually my flag fell and I lost. The arbiter then immediately informed me that we had repeated the same position a number of times and had I claimed a draw by three fold repetition he would have granted it.I thought that you couldn't claim a draw by repetition when we weren't writing down the moves. I still think that if the arbiter witnesses the repetition then that should be enough. Needless to say I was seriously pissed off and even now, thirteen years later, it still rankles when I think about it.
    The things that some people do to try and win games really are distasteful and without any kind of honour or integrity. I don't know how they can get any satisfaction by winning with what can only be classed as gamesmanship.
    On the other hand I have had situations where I was winning by a huge margin but about to lose on time and my opponent has very sportingly offered me a draw and other games where I was the one getting mashed but my opponents flag was about to fall where I have offered the draw. I think that a draw in those situations is only fair.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,265 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    Fairly sure you can't claim a draw on repetition without noting your moves alright. How would you prove it?

    The arbiter can now interpose and call 5-fold-repetition, which implies to me he can't interject for 3-fold-repetition.

    I thought protocol in that case was to give both sides two extra minutes to see if any progress could be made.

    Much and all as I prefer a proper ticking clock, increments really do make time trouble significantly easier to adjudicate. If your flag falls, you lose, unless your opponent has no mating material (in which case, why did your flag fall?)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,862 ✭✭✭mikhail


    The hard case above with the B v P is covered by 6.9. That also governs some amusing examples where the player to move, whose flag falls, has only one legal move which brings about immediate checkmate or stalemate. Those cases are also drawn, even if the opponent has "mating material", because no sequence of legal moves could win the game.
    Does that mean that any forced mate on the board means a flag fall results in a draw? If Stockfish says it's mate in 25, for instance?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,265 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    That rule tends to cover mate on the board (ie mate in one), no?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,862 ✭✭✭mikhail


    cdeb wrote: »
    That rule tends to cover mate on the board (ie mate in one), no?
    If I have forced mate, "no sequence of legal moves could win the game" for the other guy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,300 ✭✭✭sodacat11


    cdeb wrote: »
    Fairly sure you can't claim a draw on repetition without noting your moves alright. How would you prove it?

    The arbiter can now interpose and call 5-fold-repetition, which implies to me he can't interject for 3-fold-repetition.

    I thought protocol in that case was to give both sides two extra minutes to see if any progress could be made.

    Much and all as I prefer a proper ticking clock, increments really do make time trouble significantly easier to adjudicate. If your flag falls, you lose, unless your opponent has no mating material (in which case, why did your flag fall?)

    I suppose after trying to claim the draw in two other ways I should have chanced the repetition claim but it was a very tense and nervy situation at the time after a very long wild game with a lot at stake and a crowd around the board. It wasn't easy to think calmly. As far as I remember the arbiter was writing down the moves.
    You are right about the increments, they do improve things a lot both for the players and the arbiters.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,265 Mod ✭✭✭✭cdeb


    mikhail wrote: »
    If I have forced mate, "no sequence of legal moves could win the game" for the other guy.
    Actually, Tim's example was where your only move is mate.

    So in your 25 move mate, you'd have moves you could make which weren't mate - so different situation.


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