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Is anyone else starting to become a bit worried? mod note in first post

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    #422
    sReq | uTeK
    Registered Users Posts: 6,005 ✭✭✭sReq | uTeK


    scamalert wrote: »
    stock penny market is what it is :cool: theres nothing online in last few years that would make someone %3000 percent returns on smth that literally doesn't exist or has no real world usage.

    I see ICO's exploding left and right with shipping contrainers stacked with asics, mines in caves to keep temps low :pac: and other ICO's that are based on some nut ideas.

    fact it no one uses it as currency anyone in the game is because of making actual $$$ from nothing its even useless as money transfer since costs and volatily is so rapid by the minute it reaches other end it could be worth 10% up or down, hassle with cashing out is utter pain.

    Everyone claims its such a new generation technology but in 7 years time we only seen that's its like slots online. the very core idea that one needs to use massive amounts of power to solve nothing for reward which is digital breaks any economical fundamentals.

    its a gamble at best where you need sucker to sell it to and find exchange which will give you actual cash for it.


    You do realise that companies such as Ripple (XRP) which had significantly greater gains are working with some of the worlds largest banks. But alas, why do the research when you can spout nonsense.

    Sure there are ICO's that are fads, thats why people do this phenomenon thing call "RESEARCH".


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    #423
    smacl
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,735 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »
    Bitcoins utility boils down to buying drugs and kiddie porn.

    Whatever you use it for is your own business, though not sure I'd be talking about it on a public forum. Hardly surprising you're met with vitriol coming up with posts like that. :rolleyes:


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    #424
    copeyhagen
    Registered Users Posts: 4,528 ✭✭✭copeyhagen


    sReq | uTeK wrote: »
    You do realise that companies such as Ripple (XRP) which had significantly greater gains are working with some of the worlds largest banks. But alas, why do the research when you can spout nonsense.

    Sure there are ICO's that are fads, thats why people do this phenomenon thing call "RESEARCH".

    https://www.coindesk.com/ripples-xrp-hit-worst-january-crypto-market-decline/


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    #425
    machiavellianme
    Registered Users Posts: 12,483 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    Of course today would be the day the last of my portfolio hit the exchanges and my sell orders executed. Eth up 20% from where I sold this morning. Can't win at this game. Not sure if I'll buy back in. Positive news gets followed too quickly by negative news these days and it's back to square one. I'll wait and see for a while.


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    #426
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,276 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Well, that was a hell of a ride. As you guys were sleeping, I was watching the figures continue to plummet.

    Then I woke up this morning, and I'm up $8k over where I was when I went to bed.

    I considered selling during the plummet to buy back in lower, but the way this thing is so volatile, as soon as I hit 'sell' the market was probably going to reverse. So, I'm just continuing to HODL, as they say. May see if I can throw a few more Euro into something. I don't have much left, I did a lot of buying at the $11k mark. Well, I messed that one up. Still at double last year's position though.


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    #427
    sReq | uTeK
    Registered Users Posts: 6,005 ✭✭✭sReq | uTeK


    copeyhagen wrote: »
    https://www.coindesk.com/ripples-xrp-hit-worst-january-crypto-market-decline/

    You could literally insert ANY coin name for Ripple there with the same circumstances. Thats not relevant to my rebuttal that there is an underlying technology and protocol and customers, thus giving it value. Which is completely contradictory of what the previous poster said.


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    #428
    scamalert
    Registered Users Posts: 3,739 ✭✭✭scamalert


    smacl wrote: »
    Whatever you use it for is your own business, though not sure I'd be talking about it on a public forum. Hardly surprising you're met with vitriol coming up with posts like that. :rolleyes:
    i think hes spot on what others use it for, thou DW market is very small and majority use it just to make actual cash on speculation, doubt anyone gives two fingers if theres any technology being built behind block chain until its green and doubles every day that's what matters, when making cash on speculation.

    stick fixed price on crypto and allow max 20% volatility over 10 years then get retailers to accept it and see how many will go for it, instead of likes paypal or banking system ? thats where crypto would shine but no one has shown any interest in it.why ?


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    #429
    JohnnyFlash
    Registered Users Posts: 7,055 ✭✭✭JohnnyFlash


    If I was a bank or a banking group then why would I decide to use a coin that was already in the market? Can't see how it would work? A shower of lads on the internet own this coin, they value it based on how much they think they can sell it to each other, and I'm going to change my business model to incorporate it?
    Nah, I'd just get a few nerds into a room and get them to download the code and modify it. Even then I don't see why they'd move to blockchain immediately. Look at the costs for a transaction and the amount of juice it uses. I'd stick with the systems they have, at least until it becomes cost effective to use the new technology. See loads of banks are testing the waters with this stuff. Utilties as well.


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    #430
    lostboy75
    Registered Users Posts: 485 ✭✭lostboy75


    This entire thread is becoming ridiculous.
    I'm all for debate. But this isn't debate. Posters spouting the same anti-crypto nonsense over and over again, no matter how many people point out flaws in their arguments.
    At least try to come up with a new argument other than there is no value in it, it's a ponzi, repeat.
    There are many of us here that 'might' be swayed by reasoned argument. So far I haven't heard any.


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    #431
    kaymin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,526 ✭✭✭kaymin


    lostboy75 wrote: »
    This entire thread is becoming ridiculous.
    I'm all for debate. But this isn't debate. Posters spouting the same anti-crypto nonsense over and over again, no matter how many people point out flaws in their arguments.
    At least try to come up with a new argument other than there is no value in it, it's a ponzi, repeat.
    There are many of us here that 'might' be swayed by reasoned argument. So far I haven't heard any.

    So stick with your investment. No-one is forcing you to sell or to read this thread.

    There is actually no need to provide new arguments because the reason you should not invest is because it is a pyramid scheme. I've been open to explanations why it is not a pyramid scheme - I asked as much 3 weeks ago when prices were double what they are now. None of the cyrpto advocates were able to provide any explanation of a business (besides crypto generates profits that depends on crypto currency trades - i.e. the very definition of a pyramid scheme) behind a crypto currency that supports its valuation - can you?


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    #432
    lifeandtimes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭lifeandtimes


    Ecoin up 2754%

    Wtf!


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    #433
    alb
    Registered Users Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭alb


    kaymin wrote: »
    There is actually no need to provide new arguments because the reason you should not invest is because it is a pyramid scheme. I've been open to explanations why it is not a pyramid scheme

    From wikipedia:
    A pyramid scheme (commonly known as pyramid scams) is a business model that recruits members via a promise of payments or services for enrolling others into the scheme, rather than supplying investments or sale of products or services.
    Bitcoin isn't a business model, bitcoin doesn't recruit members, bitcoin doesn't make a promise of payments or services for enrolling others into a scheme.


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    #434
    tcawley29
    Registered Users Posts: 1,829 ✭✭✭tcawley29


    lifeandtimes wrote: »
    Ecoin up 2754%

    Wtf!

    looks like a pump and dump


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    #435
    rapul
    Registered Users Posts: 1,038 ✭✭✭rapul


    The negative brigade strike again, and you all like eachothers posts good lads give eachother a thumbs up there


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    #436
    rapul
    Registered Users Posts: 1,038 ✭✭✭rapul


    alb wrote: »
    From wikipedia:
    A pyramid scheme (commonly known as pyramid scams) is a business model that recruits members via a promise of payments or services for enrolling others into the scheme, rather than supplying investments or sale of products or services.
    Bitcoin isn't a business model, bitcoin doesn't recruit members, bitcoin doesn't make a promise of payments or services for enrolling others into a scheme.

    Will you all dismiss the above because your all right and were just always wrong? Its in black and white over and over in this thread.


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    #437
    kaymin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,526 ✭✭✭kaymin


    alb wrote: »
    From wikipedia:
    A pyramid scheme (commonly known as pyramid scams) is a business model that recruits members via a promise of payments or services for enrolling others into the scheme, rather than supplying investments or sale of products or services.
    Bitcoin isn't a business model, bitcoin doesn't recruit members, bitcoin doesn't make a promise of payments or services for enrolling others into a scheme.

    A pyramid scheme:
    a usually illegal operation in which participants pay to join and profit mainly from payments made by subsequent participants

    Or if you rather I called it a ponzi scheme:
    A Ponzi scheme (/ˈpɒnzi/; also a Ponzi game) is a fraudulent investment operation where the operator generates returns for older investors through revenue paid by new investors, rather than from legitimate business activities or profit of financial trading.

    Sure stick with your investment, it doesn't meet the definition of a pyramid scheme - it'll be grand.


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    #438
    rapul
    Registered Users Posts: 1,038 ✭✭✭rapul


    Whatever helps you sleep at night Kaymin


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    #439
    lifeandtimes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭lifeandtimes


    tcawley29 wrote: »
    looks like a pump and dump

    I've never seen a pump dump that high though


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    #440
    alb
    Registered Users Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭alb


    kaymin wrote: »
    A pyramid scheme:
    a usually illegal operation in which participants pay to join and profit mainly from payments made by subsequent participants
    You don't pay to join bitcoin, there's nothing to join. I know where you're coming from, because you profit by selling it to someone else in future for a higher fiat value. This makes it a speculative store of value, like vintage baseball cards or precious metals, not a pyramid scheme. There's a difference.
    kaymin wrote: »
    Or if you rather I called it a ponzi scheme:
    A Ponzi scheme (/ˈpɒnzi/; also a Ponzi game) is a fraudulent investment operation where the operator generates returns for older investors through revenue paid by new investors, rather than from legitimate business activities or profit of financial trading.
    Bitcoin is not fraudulent. Bitcoin has no operator. Bitcoin generates no returns.


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    #441
    kaymin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,526 ✭✭✭kaymin


    alb wrote: »
    You don't pay to join bitcoin, there's nothing to join. I know where you're coming from, because you profit by selling it to someone else in future for a higher fiat value. This makes it a speculative store of value, like vintage baseball cards or precious metals, not a pyramid scheme. There's a difference.


    Bitcoin is not fraudulent. Bitcoin has no operator. Bitcoin generates no returns.

    If it makes it more palatable then lets call it a ponzi scheme.

    Crypto currencies are illegal in some countries. You might like to think there's no operator - but Bitcoin has been subject to market manipulation to get it to current levels - something that would be illegal in any regulated market.

    Are you not concerned that Bitcoin generates no return - that's pretty much the key element in any pyramid or ponzi scheme - the profits you're hoping for need to come from somewhere??


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    #442
    papu
    Registered Users Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭papu


    kaymin wrote: »
    If it makes it more palatable then lets call it a ponzi scheme.

    Crypto currencies are illegal in some countries. You might like to think there's no operator - but Bitcoin has been subject to market manipulation to get it to current levels - something that would be illegal in any regulated market.

    Are you not concerned that Bitcoin generates no return - that's pretty much the key element in any pyramid or ponzi scheme - the profits you're hoping for need to come from somewhere??

    When you understand the tech behind Bitcoin and why it was invented, you will see that it is actually the total opposite of a Ponzi scheme...

    I suggest you enlighten youself


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    #443
    Bob24
    Registered Users Posts: 10,905 ✭✭✭✭Bob24


    alb wrote: »
    This makes it a speculative store of value, like vintage baseball cards or precious metals, not a pyramid scheme. There's a difference.

    Not the same. If you buy gold or a collectible item you are paying money to acquire something tangible, and which while it can be subject to speculation also has a value because of what it is (in the case of gold it can be a raw material for many industrial processes and jewellery, and the collectible item will have a sentimental value to some people who will be specifically looking for it).

    Bitcoin is also a store of value (how good it is for that purpose is difficult to say given its very short history compared to let’s say gold), but a bitcoin is purely valued based on expectations of what its value will be in the future. It is not tangible and doesn’t have a value because of what it is.


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    #444
    DANNY2014
    Registered Users Posts: 1,164 ✭✭✭DANNY2014


    lifeandtimes wrote: »
    Ecoin up 2754%

    Wtf!

    And it's dumped....


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    #445
    alb
    Registered Users Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭alb


    Yes bitcoin is non-tangible, like domain names.

    Of course a bigger discussion can be had on whether bitcoin does or doesn't have value beyond speculation, and whether speculation can continue indefinitely. But my posts were only addressing whether bitcoin is a pyramid or ponzi scheme. I don't like people confusing legit cyrptocurrencies with scams like Bitconnect or One Coin.


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    #446
    kaymin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,526 ✭✭✭kaymin


    papu wrote: »
    When you understand the tech behind Bitcoin and why it was invented, you will see that it is actually the total opposite of a Ponzi scheme...

    I suggest you enlighten youself

    I've read plenty about it, thanks. And I know its been around for years and has had very little traction in the mainstream in that time. And again, you seem unable to distinguish between Blockchain technology and crypto currencies.


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    #447
    papu
    Registered Users Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭papu


    kaymin wrote: »
    I've read plenty about it, thanks. And I know its been around for years and has had very little traction in the mainstream in that time. And again, you seem unable to distinguish between Blockchain technology and crypto currencies.

    So you acknowledge it isn't a ponzi scheme? If you've read "plenty" about it you know new users that join the Bitcoin network don’t fund the older users with new money. It’s just plain lazy (or ignorant) to make this assertion.

    You specifically mentioned Bitcoin, I addressed that.

    You've gone from
    kaymin wrote: »
    There is actually no need to provide new arguments because the reason you should not invest is because it is a pyramid scheme. I've been open to explanations why it is not a pyramid scheme - I asked as much 3 weeks ago when prices were double what they are now. None of the cyrpto advocates were able to provide any explanation of a business (besides crypto generates profits that depends on crypto currency trades - i.e. the very definition of a pyramid scheme) behind a crypto currency that supports its valuation - can you?

    to
    kaymin wrote: »
    If it makes it more palatable then lets call it a ponzi scheme.

    to
    kaymin wrote: »
    Sure stick with your investment, it doesn't meet the definition of a pyramid scheme - it'll be grand.

    Whats your argument?


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    #448
    Bob24
    Registered Users Posts: 10,905 ✭✭✭✭Bob24


    alb wrote: »
    Yes bitcoin is non-tangible, like domain names.

    I don't see it as being comparable to a domain name. A domain name can have a value for what it is and not just for speculative motives.

    If you own lets say "news.com", beyond its speculative value it has a practical use for you as a money maker because that URL will generate traffic for whatever website you host with it. So there are reasons to own that domain name beyond just speculating on its future value.


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    #449
    kaymin
    Registered Users Posts: 1,526 ✭✭✭kaymin


    papu wrote: »
    So you acknowledge it isn't a ponzi scheme? If you've read "plenty" about it you know new users that join the Bitcoin network don’t fund the older users with new money. It’s just plain lazy (or ignorant) to make this assertion.

    New joiners to Bitcoin pay old 'members' of Bitcoin for their coins - i.e. older users are funded with this new money. Profits will only be generated if new buyers can be found willing to buy at higher prices. Yes, it is a Ponzi / Pyramid scheme.


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    #450
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,261 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    kaymin wrote: »
    New joiners to Bitcoin pay old 'members' of Bitcoin for their coins - i.e. older users are funded with this new money. Profits will only be generated if new buyers can be found willing to buy at higher prices. Yes, it is a Ponzi / Pyramid scheme.
    I don't have a dog in this race, but you're talking out of your hole. You know you can click <unfollow thread> and you can just stop being wrong? It'll just go away.

    :pac:


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    #451
    alb
    Registered Users Posts: 1,259 ✭✭✭alb


    Bob24 wrote: »
    I don't see it as being comparable to a domain name. A domain name can have a value for what it is and not just for speculative motives.

    If you own lets say "news.com", beyond its speculative value it has a practical use for you as a money maker because that URL will generate traffic for whatever website you host with it. So there are reasons to own that domain name beyond just speculating on its future value.

    Bitcoin can also have use, you can use it as a payment mechanism, you can use it to move value globally. You can use it for multi-signature wallets, time locked transactions etc. It is the *only* way you can donate money to wikileaks.


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