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Can a Christian vote for unlimited abortion?

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  • #1652
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  • #1653
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    WhiteRoses wrote:
    You are very very naive if this is genuinely how you think crisis pregnancies happen and are dealt with.


    I have explained that if a mother gives birth, would she not sacrifice her life for the sake of her child? Of course she would, because she loves that child and it is her own flesh and blood. Same with the unborn. What would it benefit a mother to kill her unborn, and then give an account of it to her Maker?


  • #1654
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    pilly wrote:
    That's grand so because the vast majority of people don't believe in your version of consequences.


    That's their prerogative.


  • #1655
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    pilly wrote: »
    That's grand so because the vast majority of people don't believe in your version of consequences.

    And any pregnant woman who does is free to act in accordance with her conscience, whether it's to continue the pregnancy or seek an abortion.


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  • #1657
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    Unfortunately her conscience has to coincide with God's, otherwise she is in trouble. However, if she doesn't believe this, she is fully entitled to hold that position. She does not believe in God. That doesn't mean that God doesn’t exist.


  • #1658
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote: »
    That's their prerogative.

    Precisely. So we're agreed then? Good. Glad we sorted that.


  • #1659
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    pilly wrote:
    Precisely. So we're agreed then? Good. Glad we sorted that.


    Absolutely. But you are on the wrong track, and are fully entitled to be there.


  • #1660
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote: »
    I have explained that if a mother gives birth, would she not sacrifice her life for the sake of her child? Of course she would, because she loves that child and it is her own flesh and blood. Same with the unborn. What would it benefit a mother to kill her unborn, and then give an account of it to her Maker?

    That is NOT your choice to make for a woman.
    Sacrificing your life, well there is no greater sacrifice on earth, what gives you the right to choose that for a woman you've never met?

    Its mind boggling that this even has to be explained.


  • #1661
    NuMarvel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,279 ✭✭✭NuMarvel


    fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote: »
    Unfortunately her conscience has to coincide with God's, otherwise she is in trouble. However, if she doesn't believe this, she is fully entitled to hold that position. She does not believe in God. That doesn't mean that God doesn’t exist.

    As you said earlier, it's her prerogative. The key thing is that the law will permit either choice.


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  • #1662
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    WhiteRoses wrote:
    That is NOT your choice to make for a woman. Sacrificing your life, well there is no greater sacrifice on earth, what gives you the right to choose that for a woman you've never met?


    If I know a woman is about to commit evil, it is my moral duty to point this out. However, the final decision is hers.


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  • #1664
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    ....... wrote:
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    Exactly. You cannot prove God does or doesn't exist. The only certain way you know is by faith.


  • #1665
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  • #1666
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    ....... wrote:
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    God is in charge of women's healthcare.


  • #1667
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    fkx2nspcw9omhg wrote: »
    God is in charge of women's healthcare.

    No he isn't.


  • #1668
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,533 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    Shoobs86 wrote: »
    I think that this is the incorrect way to view the situation. As a Christian, yes, I uphold the moral and biblical law of thou shalt not kill. And therefore, I will not have an abortion by choice. However, I also currently run the risk of being killed by doctors during my pregnancy simply because there is no room in the law for them to terminate a pregnancy if I am at risk. Yes, the wording says it's ok if I am at risk - but we have seen evidence of doctors unwilling to do anything because they are afraid of being sued. I, personally, am already scared by this.

    As a Christian I also have to be honest with myself and realise that I have never walked in another's shoes; I cannot, and have no right to, interfere with someone else's choice - isn't that why God gave us Free Will? To sin, to repent, to be forgiven.

    I don't believe that voting "No" in this referendum will cease abortion in this country. I also don't believe your position that amending the 8th Amendment will mean that there is a murder free-for-all - be sensible in your arguements, this is NOT an approval for murder in general. It is approval for the decriminalisation of a medical procedure to end a pregnancy before the 12 week mark. This procedure happens every day in all countries - this referendum will not stop it.

    I also have to point out, as the parent of a Down Syndrome child, that the testing for Down Syndrome cannot be done before 12 weeks, and therefore the risk of "abortion due to disability" is removed by this time limit.

    When I weigh this all up morally, I cannot in good faith believe that I have the "high ground" above other people when I am not God - God has given people Free Will and it is not my place to judge under any circumstance. I can keep MY morals intact by not having an abortion, and by supporting proper Adoption services, but I cannot judge those who will have an abortion either way - no matter what the result of the referendum.

    the thing is that we do interfere in people's choice every day with the laws that govern our society. the reason we do this is because it's excepted that it is not viable to allow the people to have the free will to make some choices, for the greater good of society. there are many reasons for repeal of the 8th but abortion on demand would be the one to cause a no vote if that is what happens. if the plan was for abortion in medical circumstances then there would be plenty even on the pro-life side, including myself who would vote repeal. i believe if one really is against abortion on demand they should vote no and not be afraid to do so, after all this could potentially be the last time we get to vote on this issue. voting no won't eradicate abortions but it won't allow abortion on demand within ireland, and the expence and all other aspects of having to travel to the uk may make some think about not having an abortion on demand and look to other options such as adoption.
    Shoobs86 wrote: »
    This is completely irrational. Where are you coming up with "white apes"? What has that got to do with anything in this thread?

    This is why non-Christian people think that we are all nuts - you must be logical in your responses!

    his point is that throughout history, man has dehumanized whoever it decides it wants to be able to kill, enslave, or ill-treat in any form.
    most non-christian people don't think christians are nuts. we may not subscribe to your religion but only the ignorant think you to be a nut.
    WhiteRoses wrote: »
    Its evil to force a woman who does not want to be pregnant, to be pregnant. Where is the logic in that?

    in a situation where she could die or become permanently injured or disabled, i'd agree. outside that, no it isn't, as the unborn have a right to life.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #1669
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,533 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    ....... wrote: »
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    again, the fetus doesn't have greater rights then the woman, just an equal right to life as per the constitution.
    ....... wrote: »
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    it actually is human. you are mixing up being human with personhood. a fetus once it begins to develop is a human being, given that it is human. it is not a person quite yet, but will become one before being born.
    ....... wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    agreed. however, the unborn isn't her body, so that statement is irrelevant to this debate. nearly anyone agrees that a woman can do what she likes with her body, however she cannot do what she likes with the living human being within it.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



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  • #1671
    Nick Park
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,573 ✭✭✭Nick Park


    ....... wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Well, the thread title should help. This is not a general thread about women's health care. It is about whether Christians can vote for unlimited abortion or not.

    Your own unbelief is irrelevant to the thread's subject. But the beliefs of Christians, including their belief in the existence of God, is relevant.


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  • #1672
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  • #1673
    NaFirinne
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 336 ✭✭NaFirinne


    For those claiming that removing the 8th will help save mothers lives really need to have a read of this article.

    Is it's claims false?

    It claims Ireland has one of the lowest rates of maternal mortality in the entire world.

    This is without abortion.

    Is it false this narrative that appears to be coming even from Government and media that it is a health risk not having abortion?

    Please have a read of this article

    http://stjosephprc.org/save-life-of-mother/


  • #1674
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  • #1675
    NaFirinne
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 336 ✭✭NaFirinne


    ....... wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.


    Your correct abortion does have serious health repercussions for women, which is why we definitely need to save the 8th.

    Killing another human being should always be a criminal act.

    Would you advocate a man traveling to a middle east country just so he can legally kill his wife?

    A human being is a human being no matter what stage of life it's at.

    Killing is killing.

    Pro-choice is for giving women the right to sentence their babies to death.


  • #1676
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    NaFirinne wrote: »
    Your correct abortion does have serious health repercussions for women, which is why we definitely need to save the 8th.

    Killing another human being should always be a criminal act.

    Would you advocate a man traveling to a middle east country just so he can legally kill his wife?

    A human being is a human being no matter what stage of life it's at.

    Killing is killing.

    Pro-choice is for giving women the right to sentence their babies to death.

    There is so much wrong with this post I don't even know where to start.


  • #1677
    ouxbbkqtswdfaw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,253 ✭✭✭ouxbbkqtswdfaw


    NaFirinne wrote:
    Your correct abortion does have serious health repercussions for women, which is why we definitely need to save the 8th.

    NaFirinne wrote:
    Would you advocate a man traveling to a middle east country just so he can legally kill his wife?

    NaFirinne wrote:
    Killing another human being should always be a criminal act.

    NaFirinne wrote:
    A human being is a human being no matter what stage of life it's at.

    NaFirinne wrote:
    Pro-choice is for giving women the right to sentence their babies to death.


    Good man, or woman, thank you.


  • #1678
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,533 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    ....... wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.


    it's not really compelling. in relation to any situation there will always be some extremes and while they shouldn't be ignored, they are not really the norm. most people are able to travel to the uk and have their abortions with no complications. it's possible that even if we had abortion on demand in ireland, people who have had issues after traveling to the uk would still have them here.
    there were also a number of different factor's involved in Savita's death from what i understand, so she wouldn't be the best case to use in relation to repealing the 8th.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



  • #1679
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    NaFirinne wrote: »
    Your correct abortion does have serious health repercussions for women, which is why we definitely need to save the 8th.

    Killing another human being should always be a criminal act.

    Would you advocate a man traveling to a middle east country just so he can legally kill his wife?

    A human being is a human being no matter what stage of life it's at.

    Killing is killing.

    Pro-choice is for giving women the right to sentence their babies to death.

    What do you think we should do with all these murderers and their accomplices so?


  • #1680
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,533 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    WhiteRoses wrote: »
    There is so much wrong with this post I don't even know where to start.

    there is nothing wrong with it. it's accurate and truthful. i understand it's uncomfortable but i find no matter how uncomfortable that truth and honesty is always best.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words, nobody has better words then me.



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  • #1681
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    end of the road wrote: »
    there is nothing wrong with it. it's accurate and truthful. i understand it's uncomfortable but i find no matter how uncomfortable that truth and honesty is always best.

    In my opinion there is a lot wrong with it. In my opinion it is not accurate or truthful. His post was his opinion, not a factual synopsis.

    I see you are still having trouble discerning the difference between opinions and facts.


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