New England Patriots Thread Mod Warning Post #253

eagle eye · 05-02-2018 04:21AM

I don't think we will ever find out why he was left out.

StringerBell · 05-02-2018 04:23AM

eagle eye wrote: »

I don't think we will ever find out why he was left out.

You don't think we will ever find out the real reason I assume you mean?

You could be right there, but we will certainly hear some stories about it for sure. If we had won it would be different, but a loss will bring an inquest into every decision.

99 Bortles of Beer · 05-02-2018 04:26AM

https://twitter.com/tomecurran/status/960364118850105344?s=17

Not covering themselves in glory when it's so obvious that's not the reason.

This leaves a very sour taste I have to say. Butler hasn't set the world alight this year, and there's no room for sentiment in sports - but he's a fan favourite, can come up big in the clutch and is still talented enough to at least get 1 snap.

Now Patricia is trying to tell us that then playbook changed so dramatically to the previous 18 weeks that a prominent player like Butler doesn't feature even once?

Bullsh!t, and poorly handled bullsh!t at that.

StringerBell · 05-02-2018 04:31AM

The company line was set out at HT, that isn't going to change.

TOss Sweep · 05-02-2018 04:35AM

We in essence have fooked Butler twice now.

StringerBell · 05-02-2018 04:56AM

Why would you make that judgment before knowing any details?

TOss Sweep · 05-02-2018 05:14AM

StringerBell wrote: »

Why would you make that judgment before knowing any details?

Unless he murdered someone or got in trouble with John Law there is not any valid reason in my eyes to not play him defensively. Easier to put him on the field and give him **** after the fact if its a football reason that you sat him in the first place. He was good enough to play special teams right? So it clearly wasn't a move that warranted not playing him at all or he would not have played at all.

Sometimes Bill sits players for trivial things. For the most part he is right but he does get it wrong and has gotten it wrong in the past. I believe whatever Butler did wasn't bad enough to sit him defensively given he was on the field for ST.

When your defense is getting murdered you got to swallow your pride and put him in and deal with it after the fact.

If I am wrong I will hold my hand up and admit I was wrong but I think we fooked Butler here and fooked ourselves in doing so.

paulie21 · 05-02-2018 08:19AM

Think it’s been fairly well known Butler wasn’t happy with Gilmore getting paid and not him and that he wanted out. I just hope this wasn’t Bill looking to get the last laugh by embarrassing him on the biggest stage

j8wk2feszrnpao · 05-02-2018 08:26AM

paulie21 wrote: »

Think it’s been fairly well known Butler wasn’t happy with Gilmore getting paid and not him and that he wanted out. I just hope this wasn’t Bill looking to get the last laugh by embarrassing him on the biggest stage

Something must have happened. Rowe not knowing he was going to start with such late notice, surely means something kicked off.
I think the Pats were never going to pay Butler big money that he wanted, so were happy for him to play it out. But he's had a terrible season. And I don't think it was lack of effort, he was just getting beat. He's hurt his own value with his play.

TOss Sweep · 05-02-2018 08:41AM

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Something must have happened. Rowe not knowing he was going to start with such late notice, surely means something kicked off.
I think the Pats were never going to pay Butler big money that he wanted, so were happy for him to play it out. But he's had a terrible season. And I don't think it was lack of effort, he was just getting beat. He's hurt his own value with his play.

No matter what he did he is still a million times better than Richards and Bademosi. I would put him ahead of Rowe also. We played Rowe and Richards in positions they don't normally play in and Bademosi has very little experience and it average at best. Also lets not forget many were throwing Gilmore under the bus early on also. Pride needed to be swallowed and let him play. Our defense would have been better off with him than without him.

me89 · 05-02-2018 08:52AM

TOss Sweep wrote: »

No matter what he did he is still a million times better than Richards and Bademosi. I would put him ahead of Rowe also. We played Rowe and Richards in positions they don't normally play in and Bademosi has very little experience and it average at best. Also lets not forget many were throwing Gilmore under the bus early on also. Pride needed to be swallowed and let him play. Our defense would have been better off with him than without him.

Still can't get my head around it, he had played in over 97% of defensive snaps this year and 100% in the play off and all of a sudden his play is not good enough?

StringerBell · 05-02-2018 09:38AM

It is obviously not that he was not good enough to be on the field though.

99 Bortles of Beer · 05-02-2018 09:47AM

I see Brandon Browner posted on Instagram in support of Butler and how stupid it was to bench him. He said that would have split the locker room and then noted how bad our defence looked as a result.

Hightower liked his post too.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 05-02-2018 09:54AM

TOss Sweep wrote: »

No matter what he did he is still a million times better than Richards and Bademosi. I would put him ahead of Rowe also. We played Rowe and Richards in positions they don't normally play in and Bademosi has very little experience and it average at best. Also lets not forget many were throwing Gilmore under the bus early on also. Pride needed to be swallowed and let him play. Our defense would have been better off with him than without him.

I agree, he should have been playing.
Whatever he did, he got to play ST's, so clearly not enough of an issue to be totally frozen out.

StringerBell · 05-02-2018 10:07AM

Gronk didn't exactly dispel retirement rumours, be surprised if he does but given all his injuries over the years I suppose it wouldn't be out of the realms of possibility.

StringerBell · 05-02-2018 10:23AM

The guys would have been focused on the game, not Malcom Butler. Ignore Browner and his trying to be relevant. Rowe actually said as much in his interview. All of the players sung from the same hymn sheet. They are players, coaching is not their business. Everybody wants to play, but its up to the coaches who does.

The idea that Butler not playing, given his performances this season, was a big factor in the loss is just lazy analysis, looking for the easy option to apportion blame. There is absolutely more to it then what we will be told from the Patriots which is again a staple of BB.

The D did not play well, and for once TD12 didn't bail us out. It sucks but that's the way it is. Poor fundamentals, basics. Each and every player asked said they just focus on the game, play as well as they can play. If anybody thinks Butler being benched would have made the team anyway less focused on the Superbowl they need their head examined tbh.

I'd be absolutely shocked at that level of mental fragility or focus from Pats players and Butler being out there is no more an excuse than Cooks going out, JE11 not being there,Hightower not being there etc.

3rd down killed, Ertz making plays killed, as McCourty said, we lost so its easy to look for simple answers to why. Again he reiterated they just get ready to go, whoever plays. Coaching decisions are nothing to do with them. We lost as a team, its too simplistic to blame one player not being there.

Don't get me wrong, of course I want to know why. Of course I think we would have been better with Butler out there, but not to that much of a degree. I may be wrong, ce la vie.

Neither teams D played well, the Eagles won though so no inquest.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 05-02-2018 10:26AM

99 Bortles of Beer wrote: »

I see Brandon Browner posted on Instagram in support of Butler and how stupid it was to bench him. He said that would have split the locker room and then noted how bad our defence looked as a result.

Hightower liked his post too.

That I'm not sure about. It's the SB, so I'm not doubting the effort (just the ability).
Our defense looked that bad a number of times during the season.

StringerBell · 05-02-2018 10:28AM

McCourty full of praise for Patricia too, says he has been a great leader. Its tough to lead different groups of men each year but he does it and really gives a piece of himself to it. Says he has full confidence in him making the transition to HC.

Big step up for Matt, big task going from DC or OC to HC. Can very easily go the way of Josh at Denver too

I wish him the best also, think he has done a very good job with the Patriots and still has so much room for growth as a coach, plenty still to learn.

99 Bortles of Beer · 05-02-2018 10:47AM

StringerBell wrote: »

The guys would have been focused on the game, not Malcom Butler. Ignore Browner and his trying to be relevant.

munstermagic11 wrote: »

That I'm not sure about. It's the SB, so I'm not doubting the effort (just the ability).
Our defense looked that bad a number of times during the season.

I'm not putting stock in what Browner said, I'm referencing the fact that our defensive leader Dont'a Hightower liked the post. That shows an obvious discontent with the decision Belichick made, and there's no way Hightower is the only one who agrees with Browner.

StringerBell wrote:

The idea that Butler not playing, given his performances this season, was a big factor in the loss is just lazy analysis, looking for the easy option to apportion blame.

It's not lazy analysis. You don't always have to look deeper for meaning - sometimes it's the answer that's sitting right in front of you.

Did the defense play horribly? Absolutely. But during the regular season, Butler played 97% of out defensive snaps - more than any other defender on the team. In comparison, Rowe played 24% and Bademosi played 20% - and the only reason they played that much is because Gilmore missed 3 games.

During the playoffs against the Titans and Jaguars, Butler played every single snap on defense - 100% of them. Rowe played 69%, and Bademosi played 0.7% (or 1 snap over the 2 games combined).

Everything Belichick/Patricia have done on defense this year has pointed to them believing that Butler is the better CB than Rowe/Bademosi. So why is the idea that deliberately playing inferior players in Butler's place contributing to our loss "lazy"? All it would have taken is one play - and Belichick and Patricia thought Butler was in a better position to provide that play in almost 100% of snaps all year.

I'm not saying Butler would have turned a loss into a victory last night, but he would have improved our chances. Don't know how anyone can argue against that.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 05-02-2018 10:52AM

99 Bortles of Beer wrote: »

I'm not putting stock in what Browner said, I'm referencing the fact that our defensive leader Dont'a Hightower liked the post. That shows an obvious discontent with the decision Belichick made, and there's no way Hightower is the only one who agrees with Browner.

I think you'll find that we kinda agree with Browner

Butler was on ST's, so whatever was done, it didn't seem to merit total exclusion.
He was really bad in the AFC game; so maybe it was a case of Jamie Collins again; i.e. the player trying to do his own thing for a pay day?
I don't know.
We saw the players be disappointed when Collins left, but moved on. I reckon it'll be the same here.

StringerBell · 05-02-2018 11:22AM

Its quite open to interpretation though, Hightower may have liked the post because of the support part rather then the split part, Hightower may not actually do his own insta, Hightower may also have gone rogue basically.

It doesn't really matter imo, there is no way the guys who went out there were not 100% committed and focused on the job. They were not good enough though.

eagle eye · 05-02-2018 11:39AM

Bill Belichick doesn't do childish things, he is the greatest head coach if all time. All he wants every game is to win and anybody here who can't just accept that there had to be a really good reason for the decision not to play Butler last night needs to cop on. This bad taste in the mouth thing is unreal, we have been so spoiled by Belichick/Brady over the last 18 years that some have come to believe that we should be winning the Superbowl every year. Well get over yourself and get realistic.

And we all know that the reason will remain private because that is how Bill does things.

So get over it.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 05-02-2018 11:48AM

eagle eye wrote: »

Bill Belichick doesn't do childish things, he is the greatest head coach if all time. All he wants every game is to win and anybody here who can't just accept that there had to be a really good reason for the decision not to play Butler last night needs to cop on. This bad taste in the mouth thing is unreal, we have been so spoiled by Belichick/Brady over the last 18 years that some have come to believe that we should be winning the Superbowl every year. Well get over yourself and get realistic.

And we all know that the reason will remain private because that is how Bill does things.

So get over it.

Ah, to be fair, that's a bit childish in itself. Cop on?
You saw how bad Rowe was. We had Bademosi and Richards out there. It was brutal.
Maybe there's a good reason. But without knowing it, maybe there isn't.

eagle eye · 05-02-2018 11:54AM

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Ah, to be fair, that's a bit childish in itself. Cop on?
You saw how bad Rowe was. We had Bademosi and Richards out there. It was brutal.
Maybe there's a good reason. But without knowing it, maybe there isn't.

The Belichick way is that we don't discuss decisions like that so just accept it and move on is my contention. We are all happy to accept that when we are winning and no.1 seeds and winning Superbowls. Why should it change now that we lost a Superbowl?

We just accept it and move on knowing that we have the best head coach in the business.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 05-02-2018 12:07PM

eagle eye wrote: »

The Belichick way is that we don't discuss decisions like that so just accept it and move on is my contention. We are all happy to accept that when we are winning and no.1 seeds and winning Superbowls. Why should it change now that we lost a Superbowl?

We just accept it and move on knowing that we have the best head coach in the business.

Not denying he's the best coach. But we don't have to just accept it. People left their feeling known about Collins as well. We won without him, but maybe we wouldn't have been down so much requiring that comeback (and needing that miracle)?
I've no problem with In Bill We Trust. Just not In Bill We Blindly Trust.
The DBs were getting killed. Maybe Butler would have too. But not to try it? Whatever Butler did, he was on the sideline. Use him or don't have him dress.
Not saying it cost us the SB, but who knows if he could have made just one 3rd stop that others couldn't.

Son Of A Vidic · 05-02-2018 12:08PM

I think the real story here is we've had one of the worst run defenses in the league all season long. And if you can stop the run, then you give your opponent the passing game & play action. And that failing is all on Bill & Patricia. So it's time we got a proper Nose Tackle on this team with real run stuffing ability and started doing the fundamentals on defense.

Regarding Butler, well I think he was shyte all season long. He's been sulking that Gilmore got the big money and not him. And as much as I criticised Gilmore in the earlier part of the season, in recent weeks he really proved his worth and my God, that fantastic batted away pass in the AFC title game will be a highlight for the ages.

Patricia is gone, I wish him well but the defense won't be any worse for him leaving. We'll promote from within, most likely Flores and being a defensive coach, Bill will meddle. Not the first time I've said this, but I'd love to see an outside talent being brought in and really shaking it up. But that's never going to happen with Bill.

Giving up 41 points in a Superbowl is an utter embarrassment and as usual, it was all left on Brady's shoulders to win the day. And that's the way it's always been. The strip sack ended it this time, but I won't criticise the O line for it, because I think they played better than expected against an excellent defensive front. The offense can hold their heads up high this morning. But the defense and more so the coaches, should probably have a look in the mirror at themselves.

AbusesToilets · 05-02-2018 12:21PM

To my mind two things ultimately cost us that game, terrible offensive play calling in the first half and an utter failure to make tackles. That Bademosi whiff on 3 & 5 was especially egregious imo.

Butler being benched reeks of pettiness at this stage. If it's related to some infraction, like blowing curfew or having weed on him, still doesn't justify it imo. Bill was happy to have LT playing games high off his tits back in the day, how can you sabotage your defensive scheme in the SB just to make a point?

AbusesToilets · 05-02-2018 12:22PM

Son Of A Vidic wrote: »

I think the real story here is we've had one of the worst run defenses in the league all season long. And if you can stop the run, then you give your opponent the passing game & play action. And that failing is all on Bill & Patricia. So it's time we got a proper Nose Tackle on this team with real run stuffing ability and started doing the fundamentals on defense.

Regarding Butler, well I think he was shyte all season long. He's been sulking that Gilmore got the big money and not him. And as much as I criticised Gilmore in the earlier part of the season, in recent weeks he really proved his worth and my God, that fantastic batted away pass in the AFC title game will be a highlight for the ages.

Patricia is gone, I wish him well but the defense won't be any worse for him leaving. We'll promote from within, most likely Flores and being a defensive coach, Bill will meddle. Not the first time I've said this, but I'd love to see an outside talent being brought in and really shaking it up. But that's never going to happen with Bill.

Giving up 41 points in a Superbowl is an utter embarrassment and as usual, it was all left on Brady's shoulders to win the day. And that's the way it's always been. The strip sack ended it this time, but I won't criticise the O line for it, because I think they played better than expected against an excellent defensive front. The offense can hold their heads up high this morning. But the defense and more so the coaches, should probably have a look in the mirror at themselves.

O-Line was playing out of its skin all game to that point, horrible way for it to end.

Son Of A Vidic · 05-02-2018 12:31PM

AbusesToilets wrote: »

O-Line was playing out of its skin all game to that point, horrible way for it to end.

They really did and it would be unfair to criticise them when they exceeded expectations. Kudos to Scar and how he does so much with so little.

eagle eye · 05-02-2018 12:36PM

This same Eagles offense put up 38 against an impressive Vikings unit.

New England Patriots Thread Mod Warning Post #253

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