NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

listermint · 31-01-2018 09:21PM

billbond4 wrote: »

Thats around the corner for infrastructure rollout s in this country

You must work in the retail arm , because 5g is no substitute for fibre

It's simply not all the retail speak in the world won't tackle the drawbacks of wireless problems.

You can have all the fancy wireless routers in an office of 300 people but you won't have everyone on wireless. There's a reason everyone has ethernet at their desks. Wireless can't handle the contention.

Tigerandahalf · 31-01-2018 09:34PM

TomOnBoard wrote: »

OpenEir owns the existing infrastructure on behalf of itself (Eir) not on behalf of the State.

But I thought the state retained ownership of the pole/line infrastructure in the form of Open eir.

Eir is a private company no?

wexfordman2 · 31-01-2018 09:35PM

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

But I thought the state retained ownership of the pole/line infrastructure in the form of Open eir.

Eir is a private company no?

Nope

Tigerandahalf · 31-01-2018 09:37PM

wexfordman2 wrote: »

Nope

So is Open eir a private company running separately to eir?

tsue921i8wljb3 · 31-01-2018 09:41PM

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

So is Open eir a private company running separately to eir?

No. eir and Openeir are part of the same private company, eir Group. All their infrastructure, poles ducts cables etc is owned by this company.

fritzelly · 31-01-2018 09:41PM

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

So is Open eir a private company running separately to eir?

OpenEir is a regulated private company that leases to all teleco
Eir retail operates seperately (as far as OpenEir is concerned they are the same as Vodafone etc)
But they are part of the eir Group

Tigerandahalf · 31-01-2018 09:44PM

fritzelly wrote: »

OpenEir is a regulated private company that leases to all teleco
Eir retail operates seperately (as far as OpenEir is concerned they are the same as Vodafone etc)
But they are part of the eir Group

But could the government set up a state company tomorrow and force either esb or open eir to provide their lines for a cost fee.

fritzelly · 31-01-2018 09:46PM

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

But could the government set up a state company tomorrow and force either esb or open eir to provide their lines for a cost fee.

They could try, and meet them in court
No private company is going to spend years building an infrastructure that makes no money for them - why wouldn't the government just build it themselves if that was what they wanted to do.

wexfordman2 · 31-01-2018 10:08PM

https://m.independent.ie/business/national-broadband-plan-winner-says-eirs-withdrawal-wont-affect-rollout-timetable-36553079.html

Interesting that they are calling enet the winning bidder!

NIMAN · 31-01-2018 10:09PM

Thats us rural dwellers fecked royally.

I can't see me getting superfast BB for a LONG time.

Wireless will be my only hope.

Wing126 · 31-01-2018 10:15PM

wexfordman2 wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/business/national-broadband-plan-winner-says-eirs-withdrawal-wont-affect-rollout-timetable-36553079.html

Interesting that they are calling enet the winning bidder!

They're the only bidder left, so technically they did win.

KOR101 · 31-01-2018 10:28PM

There is no way Eir would simply withdraw and let another company take the remaining rural homes. They must be confident that it's not going to happen.

SkepticQuark · 31-01-2018 10:30PM

KOR101 wrote: »

There is no way Eir would simply withdraw and let another company take the remaining rural homes. They must be confident that it's not going to happen.

Exactly, Eir won't give up the monopoly on the fixed lines they have that easily.

fritzelly · 31-01-2018 10:32PM

KOR101 wrote: »

There is no way Eir would simply withdraw and let another company take the remaining rural homes. They must be confident that it's not going to happen.

Why not? Any company continuing it is going to be paying them a lot of money to use the existing network up to the point it ends.
Meanwhile eir can continue to expand it's network in areas where it's more profitable to supply fibre and still be able to use eNet's (if they continue) part of the network if they wish

marno21 · 31-01-2018 10:38PM

I_HAVE_NO_NAME wrote: »

Are we really surprised though? Collectively at this stage we should b4n it. F*ck the government. NBP was always cursed. Naughton handed OpenEir a gold-mine in the form of the 300K. They are a shower and we know that but they still were best suited for the NBP. As for ESB state owned fibre network that’s where our millions should’ve gone. Now we are left with eNet who’s only exsisting infrastructure are the MAN’s. What a mess... I’d love to see a timeline of all the collective f*ck up’s of this NBP.

Naughton didn't hand eir anything. If open eir wanted to expand to those 300k homes there was nothing stopping them in the same way they were free to expand to all the areas they expended to before that.

ED E · 31-01-2018 10:39PM

Its possible they're willing to forgo low margin rural business in order to try to compete in the urban footprint with Virgin. If you drop all the OPEX for late Q4/early Q1 annually you can stamp down pricing.

plodder · 31-01-2018 10:48PM

This seems to be the key part of Eir's statement

.. complexity within the tender process, together with growing uncertainty on a range of regulatory and pricing issues that reside outside of the NBP process

The contract was becoming too complex which I can understand

.. and the regulatory environment.... that's harder to figure out. If it's outside the NBP process, then presumably it hasn't gone away, and they still have to deal with it, eg if enet wishes to build a network based on eir's existing infrastructure.

fritzelly · 31-01-2018 10:51PM

plodder wrote: »

.. and the regulatory environment.... that's harder to figure out. If it's outside the NBP process, then presumably it hasn't gone away, and they still have to deal with it, eg if enet wishes to build a network based on their existing infrastructure.

I guessed that was a dig at Naughten deciding that government should be controlling the pricing of a private company to suit his own agenda. That boat sailed when they sold it off for the money

Gonzo · 31-01-2018 10:51PM

I reckon Eir could still upgrade some of the small gaps that exist between their rollout areas. There is nothing to really stop them, and it would make sense as all it would involve is continuing the fibre cable and installing a few extra splice box's. There are at least 3 of these type of situations near by area, sections of road that are left out and they still have the same density of housing as most of the 'covered' routes.

Eir's 300k rollout is roughly 1/3 of Ireland's rural housing and these are mostly located within 5km of a town or village. Most of the areas outside of the rollout have far lower density housing, often miles from the nearest town/village and places that have no existing fibre close-by. Eir are probably more than happy to leave this for some other company to worry about while still getting paid for access to their pole network.

ED E · 31-01-2018 10:53PM

Gonzo wrote: »

I reckon Eir could still upgrade some of the small gaps that exist between their rollout areas. There is nothing to really stop them, and it would make sense as all it would involve is continuing the fibre cable and installing a few extra splice box's. There are at least 3 of these type of situations near by area, sections of road that are left out and they still have the same density of housing as most of the 'covered' routes.

Thing is there's three near everyone. You add 10 houses here, then theres another 10 in range. Add them too. Then maybe add the two beside....

It goes on and on. Gotta cut it somewhere even when that leaves gaps.

Kristopherus · 31-01-2018 11:03PM

TomOnBoard wrote: »

OpenEir owns the existing infrastructure on behalf of itself (Eir) not on behalf of the State.

How much did they pay the state for it?

tsue921i8wljb3 · 31-01-2018 11:05PM

Say enet get the go ahead to build. Will they be able to use the existing cabling that eir have deployed, using wavelength division multiplexing or fixed access network slicing? Or will they have to overlay cable and have separate splicing boxes in order to reach the NBP premises?

evosteo · 31-01-2018 11:11PM

Kristopherus wrote: »

How much did they pay the state for it?

the state floated it in 99 and its been flipped about 8 times since at this stage. its been a cash cow for vulture funds, investment funds etc... selling off assets, staff redundancies and driving down working conditions for field staff to the point where there is about 8000/10000 faults nationwide and they havent got the man power to cover it. subbing in contractors will only get you so far.

fritzelly · 31-01-2018 11:13PM

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

Say enet get the go ahead to build. Will they be able to use the existing cabling that eir have deployed, using wavelength division multiplexing or fixed access network slicing? Or will they have to overlay cable and have separate splicing boxes in order to reach the NBP premises?

They could do either (but not sure about using fibre on it tho)
There is pricing already laid out for using/leasing etc eir's network on openeir.ie if you have the patience to read thru it

Dev84 · 31-01-2018 11:17PM

Gonzo wrote: »

I reckon Eir could still upgrade some of the small gaps that exist between their rollout areas. There is nothing to really stop them, and it would make sense as all it would involve is continuing the fibre cable and installing a few extra splice box's. There are at least 3 of these type of situations near by area, sections of road that are left out and they still have the same density of housing as most of the 'covered' routes.

Eir's 300k rollout is roughly 1/3 of Ireland's rural housing and these are mostly located within 5km of a town or village. Most of the areas outside of the rollout have far lower density housing, often miles from the nearest town/village and places that have no existing fibre close-by. Eir are probably more than happy to leave this for some other company to worry about while still getting paid for access to their pole network.

Its dead in the water my friend.

seaniefr · 31-01-2018 11:32PM

How does all this work in relation to Eir siting poles on state owned land? What I mean is do they pay anything for the privilege or this is a legacy condition rolled over from state ownership? Would anyone have any ideas on this?

evosteo · 31-01-2018 11:34PM

seaniefr wrote: »

How does all this work in relation to Eir siting poles on state owned land? What I mean is do they pay anything for the privilege or this is a legacy condition rolled over from state ownership? Would anyone have any ideas on this?

new poles require planning permission from the local council. old poles are replaced with new

BandMember · 31-01-2018 11:36PM

Well lads and lassies, that's officially it: the NBP is f**ked!!

Despite what Denis Naughten is saying, there is no plan B. While there are a multitude of things that could happen (including the re-admittance of SIRO and/or Eir along with Imagine, who will no doubt try to cosy up to Enet at the very least if they don't go on their own), the real likelihood is that the clown will continue to spout rubbish about wireless being the solution and we're going to end up with yet another botched failed plan to provide broadband to the country.

Message to the Minister, and read this very carefully: wireless is not the solution. It never was and never will be. I really thought that the Department had learned this from the fiasco that was the NBS, and that's why they were pushing so hard for a fibre solution which would not only solve the problem now, but future proof it for years to come. That was my view on things anyway (rightly or wrongly), and I think they just got screwed over by Eir.

From looking at how this unfolded, it is hard not to conclude that the recent change of ownership put the kibosh on their NBP plans and you would have to wonder how well this decision has gone down internally with their large team of staff who have spent countless hours over a couple of years working on both the NBP tender and the rural rollout in general.

Once again, the real losers are the Irish people - especially those in rural areas. This was a chance to revitalise rural areas and help ease a lot of the problems in Dublin by enticing both companies and people to move back to viable jobs outside the M50 commuter belt.

The only people laughing tonight are Imagine. Expect a PR bombardment over the next while beginning tomorrow - once they get over their hangovers from all the champagne they are drinking tonight that is.

This really is absolutely f**king depressing stuff.... :mad:

seaniefr · 31-01-2018 11:38PM

Not really what I am getting at. All poles with the exception of the ones on private lands are sited alongside public roads which are state owned meaning you, me and all the rest of the taxpayers in this country via county/city councils so why can this not be factored in?

fritzelly · 31-01-2018 11:43PM

seaniefr wrote: »

How does all this work in relation to Eir siting poles on state owned land? What I mean is do they pay anything for the privilege or this is a legacy condition rolled over from state ownership? Would anyone have any ideas on this?

For public land they are given a free wayleave
Any agreement with private landowners is between them and eir regarding any payment for that wayleave, but once in place is there forever (iirc)

NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

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