Mens Rights Thread

Pawwed Rig · 16-12-2017 08:09PM

Simpla wrote: »

What do ye think of the sexual harrasment stories in the media. Mainly from men against women?

Any thoughts?

Link?

Wibbs · 16-12-2017 11:33PM

No PR...

But sadly they're banned. I do like to walk into a trap. For fun.

iptba · 18-12-2017 09:22PM

I wasn't sure which thread to post this on. I think men are at increased risk of a false accusation of being a paedophile.

Bijan Ebrahimi: An innocent man thrown to the mob

Bijan Ebrahimi was beaten unconscious, dragged from his home and his body set alight. How could this happen on a British street?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10420713/Bijan-Ebrahimi-An-innocent-man-thrown-to-the-mob.html

---

When he attempted to take photographs of youngsters destroying the flowers in his pots and hanging baskets to show the police he was branded a paedophile. He turned to the police for help and phoned them on July 11. But instead Mr Ebrahimi was arrested on suspicion of a breach of the peace in front of a mob of around 20 children and adults who screamed “paedo, paedo” as he was led away. He was released without charge the next day. But rumours continued to circulate and two days later some of his neighbours came for him. Last month, a spokesman for Avon and Somerset police reiterated Mr Ebrahimi’s innocence: “We can categorically state he had not taken any indecent images and that nothing of concern had been found on his computer.”

---

Over the past few months there have been numerous vigilante-style incidents in Britain, where anonymous online “hunters” attempt to name and shame suspected paedophiles regardless of concrete evidence. Some groups active in the Midlands – where suspects are confronted on camera and the films then posted on the internet – have led to a handful of convictions. Other innocent people, though, have reported having their lives destroyed and being hounded out of communities due to false claims. Earlier this year, a 29-year-old engineer, Gary Cleary, hanged himself days after being confronted in public in Leicester by a now disbanded group called Letzgohunting for supposedly grooming a child over the internet. He had not been charged with any offence.

Also in Irish Examiner today: http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/world/report-finds-man-murdered-after-wrongful-paedophilia-accusation-failed-by-british-police-and-council-819224.html

Calhoun · 18-12-2017 09:47PM

The first case on this one is a complex and complicated mess, I believe racism and not so much vigilante justice was the basis for this one.

As for the vigilantes they are on a direct collision course with the fuzz on both sides of the Irish sea. I don't think we have a case of it here yet but you would wonder the impact it would have come to trial.

citytillidie · 18-12-2017 09:56PM

iptba wrote: »

I wasn't sure which thread to post this on. I think men are at increased risk of a false accusation of being a paedophile.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10420713/Bijan-Ebrahimi-An-innocent-man-thrown-to-the-mob.html

---

---

Also in Irish Examiner today: http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/world/report-finds-man-murdered-after-wrongful-paedophilia-accusation-failed-by-british-police-and-council-819224.html

That is the danger of those facebook groups yes they are catching men but they could also happen to ruin the life of someone innocent

citytillidie · 20-12-2017 07:47PM

Well well the met police in big trouble

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42431171

Basically 2 rape cases have collapse in a week because the police did not had over evidence that would have proved both guys innocent. I wonder how many more there is

iptba · 06-01-2018 11:00PM

https://twitter.com/HSE_HR/status/949674621426651136

Doubt the HSE/the account would encourage males to "remember to support each other and 'press for progress'".

Calhoun · 07-01-2018 03:27AM

iptba wrote: »

https://twitter.com/HSE_HR/status/949674621426651136

Doubt the HSE/the account would encourage males to "remember to support each other and 'press for progress'".

Looks like another bastion of sexism is building to join the teaching profession I wonder if we will get gender quotas lol.

Middle Man · 07-01-2018 06:22PM

citytillidie wrote: »

Well well the met police in big trouble

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42431171

Basically 2 rape cases have collapse in a week because the police did not had over evidence that would have proved both guys innocent. I wonder how many more there is

Well, it's those kind of scandals that will hopefully help turn the tide against misandry.

Calhoun · 07-01-2018 06:27PM

I believe its more than the two cases now. I see Allison Saunders being forced to step down in the future but fore some reason seems to be untouchable now.

iptba · 10-01-2018 05:06PM

https://twitter.com/RocksteadyMMA/status/949591769162936320

iptba · 10-01-2018 05:10PM

Here's the latest batch of gender-related hashtags I have noticed trending for anyone interested (I know some are not)
(Aside: I'm not on Twitter 24/7 of course and don't look back at lists for when I wasn't on)

#ITSportswoman

#NollaignamBan

#IlluminateHerstory
"Tonight, the launch of #IlluminateHerstory Light Festival with buildings & public spaces being lit up across Dublin & three day programme of events from Manchester to Gdansk to Galway."
"The ‘Illuminate Herstory’ initiative began in Ireland as an annual light festival designed to celebrate females from all over the world. In pursuit of Ogilvy’s commitment to gender equality, we are shining a light on female figures."

Women's Christmas

#WhyIWearBlack
[Seems largely to be about gender]

#womensinspire

#GenderPayGap

10-01-2018 05:35PM

iptba wrote: »

"The ‘Illuminate Herstory’ initiative began in Ireland as an annual light festival designed to celebrate females from all over the world. In pursuit of Ogilvy’s commitment to gender equality, we are shining a light on female figures."

I am truly getting sick of this idea that equality means putting women on a pedestal.

Stop spouting about equality and admit it's solely about women ffs. :rolleyes:

iptba · 17-01-2018 11:46PM

From today's Irish Times:

A woman tricked me to become pregnant and I am devastated
It’s been one of the most terrible situations, I almost ended my life because of it

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/a-woman-tricked-me-to-become-pregnant-and-i-am-devastated-1.3348395

Calhoun · 18-01-2018 01:17AM

iptba wrote: »

From today's Irish Times:

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/a-woman-tricked-me-to-become-pregnant-and-i-am-devastated-1.3348395

Well lets be fair, the guy in this story was very reckless one for believing her but then two from the perspective of his own health. He was tricked on one level but there is an element of personal responsibility that he is leaving out. Like what kind of sex ed are they teaching in school these days, even being on the pill isnt 100%.

It is obvious this woman just wanted a baby with someone and didnt really want the help in raising said baby. Hypothetically had she done what she did and was looking to be supported that would be a different situation altogether.

Wibbs · 18-01-2018 10:19AM

Calhoun wrote: »

Well lets be fair, the guy in this story was very reckless one for believing her but then two from the perspective of his own health. He was tricked on one level but there is an element of personal responsibility that he is leaving out. Like what kind of sex ed are they teaching in school these days, even being on the pill isnt 100%.

Yeah he comes across as a whiney little manboy to me. "traumatic" "devastated" "almost ended my life" wah! wah!. Sack up man FFS. Jesus.

Oh and he could have y'know just not had sex with her. Crazy notion I know. :rolleyes:

It is obvious this woman just wanted a baby with someone and didnt really want the help in raising said baby. Hypothetically had she done what she did and was looking to be supported that would be a different situation altogether.

Exactly C. Then he would have had something to bloody whinge about. So he's a sperm donor end of. Big deal. He even says he doesn't feel like he has a kid. His genes go on and he doesn't have to lift a finger.

silverharp · 18-01-2018 10:40AM

he took a risk even if he was to naive to know he was taking it. If someone is that determined she might have had "special" condoms with an extra aeration feature or she might have got hold of the condom afterwards. I know it must be rare enough but we only know about this case cos she contacted him after, how often might it happen when they don't?

The other thing is that he may get a knock on the door in about 20 years where someone wants to meet their dad. Talk about a ticking time bomb

Wibbs · 18-01-2018 11:26AM

silverharp wrote: »

I know it must be rare enough but we only know about this case cos she contacted him after, how often might it happen when they don't?

No use as a stat I grant you, but two guys in my immediate circle have kids they only found out about many years later.

seamus · 18-01-2018 11:39AM

Wibbs wrote: »

Yeah he comes across as a whiney little manboy to me. "traumatic" "devastated" "almost ended my life" wah! wah!. Sack up man FFS. Jesus.

And then we ask ourselves why men have difficulty opening up and seeking help when they're in trouble :rolleyes:

Real compassionate response there Wibbs.

For someone I ordinarily respect, your response is no less than, "If she didn't want a baby, she could have kept her legs closed. She made her bed, now she can lie in it and stop whining". Very disappointing.

The man feels genuine reverence for the reproductive process, takes his part in it and obligations seriously, and your response is to tell him to "sack up".

Wibbs · 18-01-2018 02:11PM

seamus wrote: »

And then we ask ourselves why men have difficulty opening up and seeking help when they're in trouble :rolleyes:

I understand where you're coming from S, but TBH I'm kinda sick to the molars with the near constant tinnitus of usually self inflicted victimhood we're exposed to on a daily basis.

For someone I ordinarily respect, your response is no less than, "If she didn't want a baby, she could have kept her legs closed. She made her bed, now she can lie in it and stop whining". Very disappointing.

You see, again this boils down to choices and he made them. Total stranger(older woman apparently, though why that's in play. Probably mid 30's woman. They've got baby brain y'know) comes on strong looking for sex. Doesn't want kids? He made the choice to have sex with a complete stranger. Doesn't want kids? He made the choice to not wear a condom. Doesn't want kids? He made the choice to believe a total stranger he just met and go in bareback.

Sex makes babies. That's a risk(among others). Adults make choices to reduce that risk(and others). This is not the pill failed/condom broke scenario. it's also a little different regarding the reversal of the genders. It would be a better comparison if a woman met a stranger one night who came on strong looking for sex, a stranger who told her he had a vasectomy and she believed this total stranger and had sex with him without protection. Making those choices along the way. Sure you'd have some sympathy, but I would also I'd see them as at best naive, at most bloody stupid. I would still see the perps as being utter ****. No debate there.

The man feels genuine reverence for the reproductive process, takes his part in it and obligations seriously, and your response is to tell him to "sack up".

"genuine reverence"? His last relationship broke up because of his "commitment issues", likely because - and it is his right - that he didn't want kids with her. If he felt that strongly he would have wrapped up when having sex with a complete stranger. He chose not to.

It wasn't a virgin birth. The woman was majorly in the wrong, but he bears some responsibility and as is the fashion he's looking to shirk that by pulling the victim angle. And no doubt the support and counselling will back that angle up. Again all to common these days. Rather than saying "look she was a wagon, but yes you screwed up and that's OK. We all do, but you can and will own it and move on from that and then you can deal with whatever the realities of this bring down the line. Here's how to help deal with them..." That's an active response and plan of action, rather than the passive "it's someone else's fault, you're the victim". Which would you prefer? I'd bet a fair chunk of change that you of all folks wouldn't go the victim route.

iptba · 25-01-2018 05:12AM

Men to miss out on €40 per week after Doherty's pensions 'fix'

https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/pensions/men-to-miss-out-on-40-per-week-after-dohertys-pensions-fix-36528297.html

s7ryf3925pivug · 25-01-2018 06:07AM

Wibbs wrote: »

I understand where you're coming from S, but TBH I'm kinda sick to the molars with the near constant tinnitus of usually self inflicted victimhood we're exposed to on a daily basis.

You see, again this boils down to choices and he made them. Total stranger(older woman apparently, though why that's in play. Probably mid 30's woman. They've got baby brain y'know) comes on strong looking for sex. Doesn't want kids? He made the choice to have sex with a complete stranger. Doesn't want kids? He made the choice to not wear a condom. Doesn't want kids? He made the choice to believe a total stranger he just met and go in bareback.

Sex makes babies. That's a risk(among others). Adults make choices to reduce that risk(and others). This is not the pill failed/condom broke scenario. it's also a little different regarding the reversal of the genders. It would be a better comparison if a woman met a stranger one night who came on strong looking for sex, a stranger who told her he had a vasectomy and she believed this total stranger and had sex with him without protection. Making those choices along the way. Sure you'd have some sympathy, but I would also I'd see them as at best naive, at most bloody stupid. I would still see the perps as being utter ****. No debate there.

"genuine reverence"? His last relationship broke up because of his "commitment issues", likely because - and it is his right - that he didn't want kids with her. If he felt that strongly he would have wrapped up when having sex with a complete stranger. He chose not to.

It wasn't a virgin birth. The woman was majorly in the wrong, but he bears some responsibility and as is the fashion he's looking to shirk that by pulling the victim angle. And no doubt the support and counselling will back that angle up. Again all to common these days. Rather than saying "look she was a wagon, but yes you screwed up and that's OK. We all do, but you can and will own it and move on from that and then you can deal with whatever the realities of this bring down the line. Here's how to help deal with them..." That's an active response and plan of action, rather than the passive "it's someone else's fault, you're the victim". Which would you prefer? I'd bet a fair chunk of change that you of all folks wouldn't go the victim route.

You choose to expose yourself to people's personal problems though. It's easy not to read agony aunt columns or whatever else you're consuming.

Guy in article sounds like he was distressed by his own father's absenteeism, and is troubled to find somehow he's become an absentee father himself. Natural to feel a need to look after his own kid. Natural to feel deeply troubled at being blocked from them.

Reducing that to 'His genes get to go on and he doesn't have to lift a finger' is bizarre. His genes will go on anyway, he shares them with loads of other people.

Wibbs · 25-01-2018 10:28AM

Ryann Bald Wage wrote: »

You choose to expose yourself to people's personal problems though. It's easy not to read agony aunt columns or whatever else you're consuming.

It is, my point being the victim narrative is so engrained in society it's hard to avoid.

Guy in article sounds like he was distressed by his own father's absenteeism, and is troubled to find somehow he's become an absentee father himself. Natural to feel a need to look after his own kid. Natural to feel deeply troubled at being blocked from them.

I don't disagree. That part isn't my issue(though he says he doesn't feel like a father, or that he has a child).

However as I said earlier: You see, again this boils down to choices and he made them. Total stranger comes on strong looking for sex. Doesn't want kids? He made the choice to have sex with a complete stranger. Doesn't want kids? He made the choice to not wear a condom. Doesn't want kids? He made the choice to believe a total stranger he just met and go in bareback.

She's a wagon. No debate there. However he made a mistake. Fine, we all do, but rather than ignore that and dump that on others - which seems to be the go to option of late - we should acknowledge that mistake and own that mistake and I'm seeing no evidence of that from this guy. It's all poor me, I was so betrayed, wah wah.

Again this illustrates this victim narrative. Forget choice and personal responsibility, it's never my fault, it's somebody else's*. This is not a case of a trusted girlfriend taking a needle to condoms and "forgetting" to take the pill and it's not as if she fell on his mickey unannounced.

Reducing that to 'His genes get to go on and he doesn't have to lift a finger' is bizarre. His genes will go on anyway, he shares them with loads of other people.

Actually he doesn't. Unless he's one of triplets or whatever. And if we consider at the base level of the "selfish gene" angle, having offspring with little investment isn't so much a negative.

*I'd not be too shocked to read her side and her claiming some sort of twisted victimhood; upbringing, aching for a child, time running out, momentary madness, blah blah, rinse and repeat.

py2006 · 25-01-2018 10:52AM

Not sure if this is about men's rights or sexism against men but refreshing all the same

She claims that women have 'spread their legs ' for a role in a Weinstein movie.

She said that "in the old days" women would "slap down" men who assaulted or harassed them, explaining: "In the old days, there were movies - the Carry On comedies, for example - which always had a man leering after women. And the women always outwitted him - he was a fool.

"We weren't afraid of him and we weren't afraid to slap him down.

"If you spread your legs because he said 'be nice to me and I'll give you a job in a movie' then I'm afraid that's tantamount to consent, and it's too late now to start whingeing about that," said the feminist writer.

https://www.independent.ie/style/celebrity/celebrity-news/feminist-germaine-greer-takes-aim-at-whingeing-metoo-campaign-36528552.html

El_Duderino 09 · 25-01-2018 12:07PM

py2006 wrote:

She claims that women have 'spread their legs ' for a role in a Weinstein movie.

Lol. Given Selma Hayek's experience, the offer of a job for letting Weinstein ride you comes with the threat that he will prevent you from getting a on elsewhere if he can. She signed an exclusive contract to be a leading role for 5years (I think) in Weinstein's movies. He brought some men to her hotel in the middle of the night and expected her to pleasure them all. When she exercised her consent and refused to simply pleasure strangers on demand, he refused to give her any jobs. So she was prevented from taking a leading role for for he remainder of the contract.

If this is refreshing to you, then, why?

If you're agreeing with the author that it's tantamount to consent, then you're playing fast and loose with the meaning of consent. Are you sure you didn't mean coercion?

py2006 wrote:

Not sure if this is about men's rights or sexism against men but refreshing all the same

Neither do I know if it's a men's right issue or sexism against men. If you find a link to either, let us know.

Calhoun · 25-01-2018 01:04PM

py2006 wrote: »

Not sure if this is about men's rights or sexism against men but refreshing all the same

She claims that women have 'spread their legs ' for a role in a Weinstein movie.

https://www.independent.ie/style/celebrity/celebrity-news/feminist-germaine-greer-takes-aim-at-whingeing-metoo-campaign-36528552.html

Metoo campaign fundamentally is very dangerous, it is refreshing to hear female actress explain a bit of the quid pro quo that goes on in Hollywood but there was definitely abuse and coercion.

py2006 · 25-01-2018 01:26PM

Calhoun wrote: »

Metoo campaign fundamentally is very dangerous, it is refreshing to hear female actress explain a bit of the quid pro quo that goes on in Hollywood but there was definitely abuse and coercion.

Yea I've no doubt Harvey is a total pig. He looks it.

However, I don't believe he raped and or abused EVERY woman who wanted to become an 'actress' or be part of his success. I believe plenty of women were more than willing to play the game to get a role and earn some big money. Kinda using each other.

Oprah praised and kissed him at last year's Globes...

Women have often used their sexuality in order to gain financially or materialisticly. Some men fall for it, some men go along with it.

The witchhunt of rich men at mo is worrying. Some of these actresses have waited till they are rich and established before going all me too which may speak volumes

Calhoun · 25-01-2018 02:25PM

True that if it was a quid pro quo position then its not so bad, if he coerced women though there is a distinction and that fundamentally is wrong. However the line on this one is razor tight.

Saruhashi · 25-01-2018 03:01PM

Calhoun wrote: »

True that if it was a quid pro quo position then its not so bad, if he coerced women though there is a distinction and that fundamentally is wrong. However the line on this one is razor tight.

I'd say it's more likely that there is a range of different scenarios here.

You'll have some women who will offer certain things for favors.

You'll have times when he's "chanced his arm" and the women will have said "OK".

You'll have times when he's done the same and the women have said "no way" and that's been the end of it.

Then you'll have the times when he will have used coercion or, even worse, will have used physical force.

A single incident of the latter type should be enough to put him in prison and multiple incidents should put him there for a long long time.

There is also the issue of how prevalent the latter type of incident is in Hollywood.

A problem right now is that people are acting as if there is only one way these situations ever played out and people are flipping out if someone suggests that maybe not every incident played out that way.

El_Duderino 09 · 25-01-2018 03:07PM

py2006 wrote:

However, I don't believe he raped and or abused EVERY woman who wanted to become an 'actress' or be part of his success. I believe plenty of women were more than willing to play the game to get a role and earn some big money. Kinda using each other.

There might have been some women who were willing to do their auditions on their knees. Indeed Marilyn Monroe was said to have spent more time on her knees than on her feet in Hollywood studios. But it doesn't mean that any actor should be expected to audition their blowjob skills to get an acting job.

Just look at what you're saying. He didn't rape them all so what? Should we turn a blind eye to the ones he did rape or sexually assault?

Likewise if some of the women at the president's club happily made money giving a sneaky blowjob on the back stairs, that's a deal between 2 adults. But if others were sexually harassed or groped without consent, that's the story.

Why on earth is this coming up in a forum about men and men's rights? Does anyone here feel offended by the backlash against Weinstein? Personally, ill just wait for the court case and see what they conclude but I don't feel I need to defend him or pretentious it was just normal practice so not a problem.

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