Proposed suckler cow subsidy

Butcher Boy · 21-01-2018 08:31PM

Water John wrote: »

Bass, you'll be very welcome in Macroom. Just remember, as the saying goes, Macroom never reared a fool.

you also might run into minister creed there.

Willfarman · 21-01-2018 08:33PM

wrangler wrote: »

ffs, I don't know what way you farm but here reducing stocking rate from the optimum reduces the quality of the grass, not much point in giving a subsidy if you have to handicap him first.

Your little preclude joke falls flat when you put a spelling mistake one side and an american spelling the other side

By coupling it to an inefficient loss making cow you are crippling him.
There are plenty of ways of managing surplus grass.

I apologizes for me poor spellin and grammaer spoiling my little joke for you

patsy_mccabe · 21-01-2018 08:34PM

Figerty wrote: »

And we will have forgotten that when there was headage,, there were a lot of heads,, and very poor quality bodies attached....
The Beef scheme was purporting the opposite.. less heads but better quality to reduce the 'emissions'.

If there is a Suckler Cow Subsidy introduced, then it does make sense to link it some way then to reduced emmissions. They could have a lower payment to all cows and then bonuses of some sort then for more effecient breeding and practices. Kind of along the lines of the Carbon Navigator. Very easy then to sell the concept to the general public.

50HX · 21-01-2018 08:37PM

there may also be another slant on this which i think is being overlooked and that is that suckler farming is predominantly a rural west of ireland enterprise

if lads are forced out of sucklers due to rising costs etc then that'll be the biggest nail in the coffin of the demise of rural ireland

i can't see a sub coming for sucklers.....lads are getting out anyway and i think its mainly due to age profile more than profitability

in a 10 mile radius of my place i am by far the youngest suckler farmer ( u 40)

i slowly culled all the big cont cows here - yes the weanlings were making abit more than the rest of the herd average but with the way weather is going i opted for lighter cows with more milk

farmerwifelet · 21-01-2018 09:03PM

The problem is constantly moving goalposts for small suckler farms. When you get a good ai bull the next year he is gone. A lot of the ai bulls being pushed leave average to poor calves and traits and stars are pure guesswork year after year. Lads will tell you a good cow doesnt reflect in stars. Yet when animals are sent to factory its very hard to get good grades no matter what the breed. They are pushing ai as the way forward and all these schemes. Sometimes it is like they have very little interest in the actual cow and her welfare and more in the sparrows in the hedge!

CloughCasey1 · 21-01-2018 09:09PM

Cattlepen wrote: »

14 cows is one thing. Try calving 100 of them. Your mortality will be out through the roof. Subsidies are the system that has developed. If you want to stand on the high moral ground and don’t avail of them fine, but don’t be saying everyone else should be like you

Thats not what i am getting at all. There shouldnt be a 200 per cow payment for farmers just because they have sucklers. Simple as that.

CloughCasey1 · 21-01-2018 09:09PM

Cattlepen wrote: »

Jaysus your a pillar of moral guidance. What have lads at the bookies got to do with this????
And smoking at 11.30 on a weds morning??? Your a great man to throw judgements on people

You forgot the drinking bit aswell

wrangler · 21-01-2018 09:22PM

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

Thats not what i am getting at all. There shouldnt be a 200 per cow payment for farmers just because they have sucklers. Simple as that.

The EU is able to spend the Agri budget underpinning dairy farmers, why not the suckler farmers, milk was a poor price for only a few months when they... intervened...how long has suckling been in the doldrums.....most twenty cow suckler herds will do more for the environment in Ireland than any dairy farms I see.
Carbon navigator shouldn't be allowed into the equation, like the stars it's grand for the desk driver but to use it as a criteria for anything is wrong. the results are for the birds......how can any animal be a 5 star then a 3 and then a 2....

Water John · 21-01-2018 09:25PM

There are a whole lot of competing interests. What are you trying to achieve? Keep a supply of fully beef animals for export or factory.
Keep farmers on the land, for a variety of purposes.

Outside factors for example include as mentioned, it cannot be a headage payment. An animal raised from calf to beef has half the carbon footprint of a beef animal from a suckler.

There is some pointers in the Glas scheme, for all its failings.
The core being, a whole range of choices that can be configured to suit each farm. If help is needed to this sector, a broadening of this path would seem the best option.

CloughCasey1 · 21-01-2018 09:37PM

wrangler wrote: »

The EU is able to spend the Agri budget underpinning dairy farmers, why not the suckler farmers, milk was a poor price for only a few months when they... intervened...how long has suckling been in the doldrums.....most twenty cow suckler herds will do more for the environment in Ireland than any dairy farms I see.
Carbon navigator shouldn't be allowed into the equation, like the stars it's grand for the desk driver but to use it as a criteria for anything is wrong. the results are for the birds......how can any animal be a 5 star then a 3 and then a 2....

Why not every farmer??

wrangler · 21-01-2018 09:38PM

Water John wrote: »

There are a whole lot of competing interests. What are you trying to achieve? Keep a supply of fully beef animals for export or factory.
Keep farmers on the land, for a variety of purposes.

Outside factors for example include as mentioned, it cannot be a headage payment. An animal raised from calf to beef has half the carbon footprint of a beef animal from a suckler.

There is some pointers in the Glas scheme, for all its failings.
The core being, a whole range of choices that can be configured to suit each farm. If help is needed to this sector, a broadening of this path would seem the best option.

€200/cow could be given for the same reason as intervention for SMP.....TO MAKE LIFE A LITTLE BIT EASIER FOR THOSE CONCERNED

Sheep breeder · 21-01-2018 09:40PM

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

Hanging in Larrys cold rooms at 15 mts 420kg dead with no movement off farm.

Yes at the same price per kilo as the aa/he dairy cross,

CloughCasey1 · 21-01-2018 09:41PM

wrangler wrote: »

€200/cow could be given for the same reason as intervention for SMP.....TO MAKE LIFE A LITTLE BIT EASIER FOR THOSE CONCERNED

So the idiot finishing them should be left with his arse to the wind ready for Larry and Co to have their way??

wrangler · 21-01-2018 09:46PM

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

So the idiot finishing them should be left with his arse to the wind ready for Larry and Co to have their way??

It's not compulsory to buy cattle you know, plenty of options out there

Who2 · 21-01-2018 09:46PM

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

So the idiot finishing them should be left with his arse to the wind ready for Larry and Co to have their way??

maybe he should buy a few sucklers and finish all stock by 15 months too.

Bullocks · 21-01-2018 09:59PM

Cattlepen wrote: »

I hope not too. How could they make that a requirement?

I dont know but it would be an easy way to reference cow numbers

CloughCasey1 · 21-01-2018 10:01PM

Who2 wrote: »

maybe he should buy a few sucklers and finish all stock by 15 months too.

Wouldnt be experienced enough.

CloughCasey1 · 21-01-2018 10:02PM

wrangler wrote: »

It's not compulsory to buy cattle you know, plenty of options out there

Again. You are twisting everything to suit your own views.

CloughCasey1 · 21-01-2018 10:07PM

Sheep breeder wrote: »

Yes at the same price per kilo as the aa/he dairy cross,

How do ya mean?

Base price · 21-01-2018 10:08PM

Grueller wrote: »

Some of those crops around here are entering year 4 this spring. They havent been allowed to use chemicals to get a sterile seed bed and guess what happened, the docs, rushes and thistles along with scutch redshank and ragwort are choking out the linseed and oats more and more each year.

That is not correct. As per GLAS WBC t&c's - no 6. "Pre-sowing weed control can be used. Pesticides post sowing cannot be used. However spot treatment with herbicide for noxious weeds and invasive species is permitted"
https://www.agriculture.gov.ie/media/migration/farmingschemesandpayments/glastranche1/GLASTranche1Spec161015.pdf

Willfarman · 21-01-2018 10:12PM

It’s not compulsory to keep suckers you know, plenty of options out there

Bullocks · 21-01-2018 10:17PM

Are we all agreed that none of us wants to link the EU200 to the suckler cow anyhow ?

A poll with a few options would be a good idea I reckon

These threads about EU money always end up the same way haha

wrangler · 21-01-2018 10:18PM

Willfarman wrote: »

It’s not compulsory to keep suckers you know, plenty of options out there

There's 7 or 8000 signatures now, they might as well try it now. Looks like it was well supported, nothing to lose , all to gain

Willfarman · 21-01-2018 10:23PM

I think there was an online petition for HB ice cream to bring back fat frogs with 10000+ respondents... sadly no government action on the issue!

wrangler · 21-01-2018 10:28PM

Willfarman wrote: »

I think there was an online petition for HB ice cream to bring back fat frogs with 10000+ respondents... sadly no government action on the issue!

disappointing, as a retired farmer now, fat frogs are probably more important to me now

Cattlepen · 21-01-2018 10:33PM

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

You forgot the drinking bit aswell

I suppose ordinary folk can only aspire to been as pure as you sound.
Three Hail Marys and a verse of hail queen of heaven and we’ll ask god to forgive all the smokers, drinkers and gamblers!!!

Cattlepen · 21-01-2018 10:35PM

Bullocks wrote: »

I dont know but it would be an easy way to reference cow numbers

That is true all right

CloughCasey1 · 21-01-2018 10:39PM

Cattlepen wrote: »

I suppose ordinary folk can only aspire to been as pure as you sound.
Three Hail Marys and a verse of hail queen of heaven and we’ll ask god to forgive all the smokers, drinkers and gamblers!!!

Jaysus i wish i was. I apologise if i offended you sir. Give me a shout from your pulpet between the bookies and the pub if I'm passing some day, possibly a Wednesday at 11.30am i'll bring the smokes. ☺

SuperTortoise · 21-01-2018 10:39PM

I think the biggest problem in introducing a payment is the suckler farmer will only be a middle man for that 200 euro, how long will it be before the meal men, contractors, dealers, co-op's, larry and co take it off him?

MIKEKC · 21-01-2018 10:49PM

SuperTortoise wrote: »

I think the biggest problem in introducing a payment is the suckler farmer will only be a middle man for that 200 euro, how long will it be before the meal men, contractors, dealers, co-op's, larry and co take it off him?

They can only take it if he gives it to them

Proposed suckler cow subsidy

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