Can we pool our knowledge regarding TAX and crypto and make some kind of FAQ/sticky?

machiavellianme · 18-01-2018 12:23am

superg wrote: »

The part about only calculating tax when converting to fiat currency flies in the face of the opinions of our boards experts so I'd imagine that's the part he has the issue with.

Since it's come from an inspector of taxes then they can hardly haul the lad who asked over the coals some time down the line even if it's wrong.

I don't see what's so wrong with it. Crypto has no intrinsic value apart from what someone is willing to pay. If I buy two cattle and then decide there's more potential in sheep so I swap them for 9 sheep, I don't have to pay CGT. Only when I sell those sheep.

Otherwise, who values the cattle at the time of the swap? Who values the sheep? I can get one price from a mart in kerry, another from a mart in Korea and a different one again at a mart in New Zealand. Do I use the kerry one just because it's in euros or can I assume that the Korean one because it values my cattle the highest or the kiwi one because it values the sheep lowest? What if a sheep dies? What if it has twin lambs before I sell. Am I worth more? Do the breeds of cattle or sheep count or are all cattle valued equally?

The only good thing about the sheep over crypto is that at least I can always eat the sheep if the value plummets!

.G. · 18-01-2018 12:31am

machiavellianme wrote:

I don't see what's so wrong with it. Crypto has no intrinsic value apart from what someone is willing to pay. If I buy two cattle and then decide there's more potential in sheep so I swap them for 9 sheep, I don't have to pay CGT. Only when I sell those sheep.

I fully agree with you, I've always been of the same opinion regarding crypto to crypto transactions. But a very many posters were vehemently of the opposite, often quite condescending about it too. So obviously if they're wrong they won't be happy about that.

I would say that one guy at revenue might not have all the answers but you'd expect that he'd take the time to find out the official position before responding with an official response!

thegolfer · 18-01-2018 12:39am

Below is a response from Minister Michael Noonan, responding to a query, posted on another forum..

https://bitcoinsinireland.com/irish-legal-position-march14reddit/

He has confirmed that bitcoin and other like cryptocurrencies are a currency not of the state S.532(b), but currency none the less.

This seems to counter the response from Revenue slightly, in that every trade is a disposal for CGT purposes.

However another possible point for Revenue may be that they are treating all cryptocurrencies as one large single asset, and thus all trades are not counted, only on conversion to standard currencies...

An Roinn Airgeadais Oifig an Aire Department of Finance Office of the Minister Sráid Mhuirfean Uacht, Telephone: 353-1-676 7571 Baile Átha Cliath 2, Facsimile: 353-1-676 1951 Éire. LoCall: 1890 66 10 10 VPN: 8109 Upper Merrion Street, http://www.irlgov.ie/finance Dublin 2, Ireland.

Our Ref: 13/5859/MF

27 March 2014

Dear drcross,

The Minister for Finance, Mr Michael Noonan TD, has asked me to thank you for your correspondence regarding Capital Gains Tax (CGT) and Bitcoin. The delayed reply is regretted.

CGT is chargeable on gains made on the disposal of assets. Section 532(b) Taxes Consolidation Act 1997 states that any currency other than the currency of the State is an asset for CGT purposes. Where a person acquires any foreign currency i.e. other than Euro, he/she has acquired an asset for CGT purposes. If that person subsequently converts that foreign currency into Euro or into another foreign currency that would constitute a disposal of an asset for CGT purposes.

Crypto-currencies, such as Bitcoin, are not legal tender in the Euro area. E-commerce, including the use of virtual currencies, presents a challenge to tax administrations throughout the world. The Revenue Commissioners and tax administrations in other countries are actively monitoring developments. From the information provided, it is not clear how Bitcoin would be treated for CGT purposes.

However, it is likely that gains accruing from speculation on Bitcoin would be liable for CGT in the normal way.

Persons are chargeable to CGT on such gains for a year depending on their residence and domicile.

The first EURO 1,270 of an individual’s net gains for a year (that is gains minus current year losses and losses brought forward from earlier years), is exempt from CGT with the balance taxed at a standard rate of 33%.

As regards reinvesting the proceeds of disposals of Bitcoin in tech startups,

a capital gains tax relief for entrepreneurs who reinvest the proceeds from the disposal of assets made on or after 1 January 2010 in certain chargeable business assets was announced by the Minister in Budget 2014.

The necessary legislation governing this relief is included in Section 45 of Finance (No 2) Act of 2013. Commencement of the legislative provisions is subject to EU state-aid approval. The purpose of the incentive is to encourage entrepreneurial activity by encouraging individuals who have disposed of assets in recent years to re-invest the proceeds into new productive business activities.

Subject to EU approval, the relief will apply from 1 January 2014 to individual entrepreneurs:

· – who have made disposals of assets since 1 January 2010 on which they have paid capital gains tax;

· – who invest at least EURO 10,000, in the period from 1 January 2014 to 31 December 2018, in acquiring chargeable business assets that will be used in a new business and

· – who subsequently (after a minimum period of 3 years) dispose of those chargeable business assets at a gain giving rise to a capital gains tax liability.

The relief will be given on the tax due on any chargeable gain arising on the subsequent disposal of the chargeable assets after a minimum period of 3 years and will amount to the lower of:

Ø the full amount of capital gains tax paid on the initial disposal made since 1 January 2010, or

Ø 50% of the CGT payable on the disposal of the new chargeable business assets.

If an entrepreneur reinvests the proceeds of that subsequent disposal in a further new business in the 2014-2018 period, the relief can also apply on a subsequent disposal of the chargeable business assets of that further new business. Where less than the full proceeds of a disposal on which capital gains tax has been paid are reinvested, only that proportion of the capital gains tax relative to the amount reinvested will qualify for relief.

The relief will be given in the form of a tax credit equal to the lower of the capital gains tax paid on the disposal of assets made on or after 1 January 2010 or 50% of the capital gains tax on any gain from the future disposal of the chargeable business assets.

The Minister hopes this information is of asistance.

Yours sincerely

Alex Lalor

Private Secretary

Dades · 18-01-2018 12:41am

Zascar wrote: »

Well done and thanks. One more question: What if you moved country - but you had not sold anything (to fiat) - but cashed out in a new country that had zero tax. Are they going to come chasing you?

What you're still liable to pay Irish tax on depends on how long you've been non-resident. See here.

phoenix49 · 18-01-2018 12:59am

machiavellianme wrote: »

I took the liberty of contacting revenue due to the constant speculation on here.
Please see below:

Questions:

1. Are cryptocurrency trades subject to tax (or is it considered gambling)?

2. If taxable, is Capital Gains Tax the correct category? I'm not a professional trader.

3. Is the tax calculated at each trade or only when converted back to official currencies like Euro or Dollars etc. i.e. if I swap litecoin for bitcoin, does that count as profit as there is no real profits until the coins are sold to euro?

Responses:

1. & 2. Profits on cryptocurrency trades are subject to Capital Gains Tax

3. The tax due should be calculated when converted to official currencies.

This piece of info is very valuable IMO, thank you!

I'm wondering if CGT would be applicable to mining as well, given that it's quite a grey area: if someone "mines" a crypto, does that person acquires them or earns them as income? i.e. would CGT be calculated against a net between current price of an asset minus the price during acquisition? Even though no real fiat was spent back then except for mining related costs (hardware, electricity, etc). Or mining is more like income and should be taxed as income tax?

unkel · 18-01-2018 1:17am

machiavellianme wrote: »

Would it be worth us jointly coming up with a list of questions and posing them to Revenue? We could then definitively answer a lot of the periphery questions like forks, mining, airdrops etc.

Yes it would. We all need an official answer to these questions, so we know what the tax implications are

You got your answer for crypto trading and this is good enough for you, but the rest of us can hardly use the "a bloke on the internet said so" reason to not consider CGT is due at every single transaction (a nightmare). Thanks a million for sharing BTW

And as for myself, I mine. So far I've just been mining and selling immediately, so there was no speculation on my side. So no CGT according to the infamous Minister for Finance 2014 official statement. But is there other tax due on mining? So far I've made far less back in EUR than I spent in equipment and other costs, so there is no profit. But what if I eventually make a profit?

Fakent.ie · 18-01-2018 1:20am

thegolfer wrote: »

Below is a response from Minister Michael Noonan, responding to a query, posted on another forum..

https://bitcoinsinireland.com/irish-legal-position-march14reddit/

He has confirmed that bitcoin and other like cryptocurrencies are a currency not of the state S.532(b), but currency none the less.

This seems to counter the response from Revenue slightly, in that every trade is a disposal for CGT purposes.

However another possible point for Revenue may be that they are treating all cryptocurrencies as one large single asset, and thus all trades are not counted, only on conversion to standard currencies...

An Roinn Airgeadais Oifig an Aire Department of Finance Office of the Minister Sráid Mhuirfean Uacht, Telephone: 353-1-676 7571 Baile Átha Cliath 2, Facsimile: 353-1-676 1951 Éire. LoCall: 1890 66 10 10 VPN: 8109 Upper Merrion Street, http://www.irlgov.ie/finance Dublin 2, Ireland.

Our Ref: 13/5859/MF

27 March 2014

Dear drcross,

The Minister for Finance, Mr Michael Noonan TD, has asked me to thank you for your correspondence regarding Capital Gains Tax (CGT) and Bitcoin. The delayed reply is regretted.

CGT is chargeable on gains made on the disposal of assets. Section 532(b) Taxes Consolidation Act 1997 states that any currency other than the currency of the State is an asset for CGT purposes. Where a person acquires any foreign currency i.e. other than Euro, he/she has acquired an asset for CGT purposes. If that person subsequently converts that foreign currency into Euro or into another foreign currency that would constitute a disposal of an asset for CGT purposes.

Crypto-currencies, such as Bitcoin, are not legal tender in the Euro area. E-commerce, including the use of virtual currencies, presents a challenge to tax administrations throughout the world. The Revenue Commissioners and tax administrations in other countries are actively monitoring developments. From the information provided, it is not clear how Bitcoin would be treated for CGT purposes.

However, it is likely that gains accruing from speculation on Bitcoin would be liable for CGT in the normal way.

Persons are chargeable to CGT on such gains for a year depending on their residence and domicile.

The first EURO 1,270 of an individual’s net gains for a year (that is gains minus current year losses and losses brought forward from earlier years), is exempt from CGT with the balance taxed at a standard rate of 33%.

As regards reinvesting the proceeds of disposals of Bitcoin in tech startups,

a capital gains tax relief for entrepreneurs who reinvest the proceeds from the disposal of assets made on or after 1 January 2010 in certain chargeable business assets was announced by the Minister in Budget 2014.

The necessary legislation governing this relief is included in Section 45 of Finance (No 2) Act of 2013. Commencement of the legislative provisions is subject to EU state-aid approval. The purpose of the incentive is to encourage entrepreneurial activity by encouraging individuals who have disposed of assets in recent years to re-invest the proceeds into new productive business activities.

Subject to EU approval, the relief will apply from 1 January 2014 to individual entrepreneurs:

· – who have made disposals of assets since 1 January 2010 on which they have paid capital gains tax;

· – who invest at least EURO 10,000, in the period from 1 January 2014 to 31 December 2018, in acquiring chargeable business assets that will be used in a new business and

· – who subsequently (after a minimum period of 3 years) dispose of those chargeable business assets at a gain giving rise to a capital gains tax liability.

The relief will be given on the tax due on any chargeable gain arising on the subsequent disposal of the chargeable assets after a minimum period of 3 years and will amount to the lower of:

Ø the full amount of capital gains tax paid on the initial disposal made since 1 January 2010, or

Ø 50% of the CGT payable on the disposal of the new chargeable business assets.

If an entrepreneur reinvests the proceeds of that subsequent disposal in a further new business in the 2014-2018 period, the relief can also apply on a subsequent disposal of the chargeable business assets of that further new business. Where less than the full proceeds of a disposal on which capital gains tax has been paid are reinvested, only that proportion of the capital gains tax relative to the amount reinvested will qualify for relief.

The relief will be given in the form of a tax credit equal to the lower of the capital gains tax paid on the disposal of assets made on or after 1 January 2010 or 50% of the capital gains tax on any gain from the future disposal of the chargeable business assets.

The Minister hopes this information is of asistance.

Yours sincerely

Alex Lalor

Private Secretary

I understand this says that each tx is a taxable event.
the guy who emailed them and they replied that its only when your going back to an official currency
So whats the story now? that each TX is taxable or only when going back to official currencies(euro)?

thegolfer · 18-01-2018 1:29am

If treated as a currency, then yes every trade is to be considered for CGT purposes, which counters Revenues position.

You could interpret Revenues response as converting the trades to the Eur\Usd fx rate, and not the actual\final cashing in to other standard currency. Thus again requiring all trades to be counted for CGT purposes.

thegolfer · 18-01-2018 1:43am

machiavellianme wrote: »

I took the liberty of contacting revenue due to the constant speculation on here.
Please see below:

Questions:

1. Are cryptocurrency trades subject to tax (or is it considered gambling)?

2. If taxable, is Capital Gains Tax the correct category? I'm not a professional trader.

3. Is the tax calculated at each trade or only when converted back to official currencies like Euro or Dollars etc. i.e. if I swap litecoin for bitcoin, does that count as profit as there is no real profits until the coins are sold to euro?

Responses:

1. & 2. Profits on cryptocurrency trades are subject to Capital Gains Tax

3. The tax due should be calculated when converted to official currencies.

The possible issue with this is the word converted. I'd take this as converting the trades into a euro figure for fx purposes, thus to establish the tax liability.

It does not refer to a disposal, which is the correct terminology. This is not being petty, and Revenue and the legislation do define terms.

So trades are disposals for CGT purposes.

If each crypto is a currency, then each trade is a disposal. But to work out the tax you convert the figures back to Euro (official currency).

unkel · 18-01-2018 2:00am

thegolfer wrote: »

The possible issue with this is the word converted. I'd take this as converting the trades into a euro figure for fx purposes, thus to establish the tax liability.

You are raising a valid issue here. I read that sentence as having the most important word when. As in there is no CG until the moment when you convert it to fiat. Converting is actually selling crypto for fiat. If the inspector meant the rate at the time of the crypto-crypto deal he should have and would have used the word exchange rate or value or something like that imho

We really need some official clarity here. How is tax treatment of cryptos in other countries? USA?

Fakent.ie · 18-01-2018 2:29am

unkel wrote: »

You are raising a valid issue here. I read that sentence as having the most important word when. As in there is no CG until the moment when you convert it to fiat. Converting is actually selling crypto for fiat. If the inspector meant the rate at the time of the crypto-crypto deal he should have and would have used the word exchange rate or value or something like that imho

We really need some official clarity here. How is tax treatment of cryptos in other countries? USA?

I think if he did mean the latter it would of been one of the most strange ways to word it and he intended that tax is due only when you convert to fiat

Peregrinus · 18-01-2018 2:56am

Fakent.ie wrote: »

I think if he did mean the latter it would of been one of the most strange ways to word it and he intended that tax is due only when you convert to fiat

I take your point. But of course in using the "convert" terminology he is repeating the language in which the question was framed. It may be that he himself was confused by, or misunderstood, the question.

This is certainly worth digging into further. If we assume that the Revenue was saying "no, there isn't any gain or loss until you dispose of your crypto in return for 'official currencies'", in one way that's welcome news for crypto investors. But there are a couple of flags that should be waved.

1. It's surprising, since it doesn't seem to be based on or justified by anything in the CGT Acts. So I'd want to dig a little bit deeper and find the basis for this, and hopefully get it in some more formal form, e.g. a Revenue ruling, notice of an extra-statutory concession, that kind of thing.

2. It does raise some further questions. If I buy 11.432 units of crypto A for $1,000, and then swap 4.289 units of crypto A for 56.342 units of crypto B, and then swap 2.145 units of crypto A plus 17.89 units of crypto B for 2.356 units of Crypto C, and then swap 22.69 units of crypto B for 1.004 units of crypto A, and then swap 1.587 units of crypto A for 17.29 units of crypto D, and then swap 3.45 units of crypto D for 6.3 units of crypto B plus 0.005 units of crypto C, and then dispose of 1.578 units of crypto C plus 5.278 units of crypto D for $732.14, what was the acquisition cost of the part of my holding of crypto C and crypto D that I just disposed of for official currency? Have I made a loss or a gain and, in either case, how much? The "look straight through to disposal for official currency" approach assumes that this calculation can be done, so obviously it doesn't avoid the need for detailed record keeping and tedious work picking through the transactions to associate crypto sold for official currency with crypto originally bought with official currency. And there needs to be guidance from the Revenue as to how the calculation is to be done - e.g. are the FIFO rules to be applied to all the intermediate transactions which are not treated as disposals?

At this point I think crypto dealers should be getting together in some organised fashion and instructing advisers to approach the revenue for some comprehensive formal public guidance. If the standard CGT rules are to apply without variation, that's a pain in some respects, but at least people know where they stand; the standard rules are clearly established. But if there's to be variations on the rules when applied to cryptos, on the one hand that's promising but on the other hand it creates uncertainty until the variations are fully set out, and the legal basis for them is understood.

.G. · 18-01-2018 9:17am

How would a large group of people here go about getting an official response and who in revenue would be acceptable as being able to give the definitive unquestionable response? A bog standard revenue inspector seemingly isn't. It's a complex issue with many facits and I think any official position might take considerable time for them to formulate, meanwhile everyone involved is none the wiser in how to proceed.

Peregrinus · 18-01-2018 9:31am

superg wrote: »

How would a large group of people here go about getting an official response and who in revenue would be acceptable as being able to give the definitive unquestionable response? . . .

They'd want to organise themselves into some kind of semi-formal group of crypto investors, ideally including at least a couple of large investors and some of the accountants that advise them, and then engage some respected firm of accountants/tax advisers to make representations to the Revenue on the need for formal public clarification - a tax briefing, a statement of practice, that kind of thing.

On an individual level, you could bring matters to a head (and cover your arse) by notifying the Revenue that you have held and traded cryptocurrencies during the year in question, but you are treating only disposals of cryptocurrency holdings for official currency as disposals for CGT purposes, and that is all you will be reporting to them. (And, if you can get the details, you can quote the My Enquiries answer mentioned in this thread as the basis for your view.)

Even if, a year or two down the line, they decide that's not their policy after all, they probably won't charge you interest or penalties when you told them what you were doing, and that you were doing it on the basis of what you understood them to have said.

The risk, though, is that when you tell them you're doing that they'll say no, report all your transactions, and assess yourself on the basis that they are all disposals. Then if you want to challenge that you'll be on your own, as opposed to having the support of a representative group of crypto investors.

.G. · 18-01-2018 12:33pm

Well how to form such a group is beyond me unless they make themselves known here as being interested. So it seems we are all on our own. Maybe myself and a few others should follow the approach already taken here and ask them ourselves, see if the answers all come back the same as above. If enough people ask them they might also think they should probably put some info into the public domain about it.

I've spoken to an accountant about it and he was also of the opinion that they wouldn't be interested in crypto to crypto trades, only crypto to fiat but I guess we're all somewhat in the dark!

lifeandtimes · 18-01-2018 2:12pm

Peregrinus wrote: »

They'd want to organise themselves into some kind of semi-formal group of crypto investors

Can we call ourselves The Crypto knights?

GreeBo · 18-01-2018 2:15pm

lifeandtimes wrote: »

Can we call ourselves The Crypto knights?

The Crypto Sporidium?

BrokenArrows · 18-01-2018 2:26pm

Is tax due if you spend your crypto instead of selling it for Fiat?

18-01-2018 2:29pm

If this is the case it really shows a lot of common sense on behalf of revenue. It's pointless tracking all the trades between different curriemcies. At the end of the day taxable profit = investment - 1270 per year. There is no sense in the crazy system of having to count every trade as CGT event.

As another poster said they may just treat all crypto as one and it's only when money moves from the crypto word to the fiat world that an actual disposal happens, a stance a number of posters including myself saw as how it should work and how we were automatically thinking it would.

I get the feeling this potential treatment by revenue will really annoy the people who appear glad to have it taxed as much as possible and make investments in it as difficult as possible.

AlmightyCushion · 18-01-2018 2:39pm

Angel Dead Apartment wrote: »

If this is the case it really shows a lot of common sense on behalf of revenue. It's pointless tracking all the trades between different curriemcies. At the end of the day taxable profit = investment - 1270 per year. There is no sense in the crazy system of having to count every trade as CGT event.

As another poster said they may just treat all crypto as one and it's only when money moves from the crypto word to the fiat world that an actual disposal happens, a stance a number of posters including myself saw as how it should work and how we were automatically thinking it would.

I get the feeling this potential treatment by revenue will really annoy the people who appear glad to have it taxed as much as possible and make investments in it as difficult as possible.

If you are doing a lot of trading then you still need to keep track of every trade and it's euro value. Otherwise, you can't track your profit for tax purposes for when you cash out part of your portfolio. It means you don't have to file every year (assuming you don't cash out some or all of your portfolio every year) but you still need to keep detail records of each transaction to figure out your profit.

flc37ie6ojwkh8 · 18-01-2018 2:41pm

Is there a way to buy gold out of crypto, in other to avoid going through cash and paying tax?

Selik · 18-01-2018 2:54pm

Lukas Rancid Fighter wrote:

Is there a way to buy gold out of crypto, in other to avoid going through cash and paying tax?

Bitstamp do this I think.

GreeBo · 18-01-2018 3:13pm

Angel Dead Apartment wrote: »

I get the feeling this potential treatment by revenue will really annoy the people who appear glad to have it taxed as much as possible and make investments in it as difficult as possible.

I honestly dont understand this attitude.

Regarding the apparent revenue.ie response, without a published document I wont be doing anything any differently.

The reply also doesn't make much sense to me. Crypto is an asset, irrespective of whether or not you exchange it for fiat.

Otherwise are revenue saying that I can buy a house or some other asset with BTC and I don't owe CGT?

Blacktie. · 18-01-2018 3:14pm

Be aware this is tax evasion.

18-01-2018 3:29pm

Blacktie. wrote: »

Be aware this is tax evasion.

What is tax evasion? Nobody is suggesting tax evasion this all a discussion on at what point to calculate tax, the actual amount of tax to be paid will be the same either way its just the amount of effort used to calculate it varies quite a lot.

GreeBo wrote: »

I honestly dont understand this attitude.

Regarding the apparent revenue.ie response, without a published document I wont be doing anything any differently.

The reply also doesn't make much sense to me. Crypto is an asset, irrespective of whether or not you exchange it for fiat.

Otherwise are revenue saying that I can buy a house or some other asset with BTC and I don't owe CGT?

But a house isn't crypto, exchange one cryto for another and you are still under the umbrella of crypto which I think is one possible way revenue may look at it and its only when it is really spent/sold for something tangible like a house or currency such as euro that it then is subject to CGT.

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

If you are doing a lot of trading then you still need to keep track of every trade and it's euro value. Otherwise, you can't track your profit for tax purposes for when you cash out part of your portfolio. It means you don't have to file every year (assuming you don't cash out some or all of your portfolio every year) but you still need to keep detail records of each transaction to figure out your profit.

You can simply calculate your profit vs what you invested.

If you put in 1k, spend 6 months trading and now have 10k in crypto. withdraw 5k so to calculate the tax you simplay have 5k-1k-1270 = 2730 taxable.

Yes if you really want to track your investments for your own records, calculating what was a good invesntemt etc then you will want to see what made you money, what lost you moeny etc but from a tax point of view its all very simple if all you need to calculate is withdraws to fiat as its as its just withdrawl - investment (- any exemptions).

Blacktie. · 18-01-2018 3:34pm

Pierce Gentle Lamp wrote:

What is tax evasion? Nobody is suggesting tax evasion this all a discussion on at what point to calculate tax, the actual amount of tax to be paid will be the same either way its just the amount of effort used to calculate it varies quite a lot.

Was meant to quote Jsep there who specifically mentions to avoid paying taxes.

18-01-2018 3:36pm

Blacktie. wrote: »

Was meant to quote Lukas Rancid Fighter there who specifically mentions to avoid paying taxes.

No problem, thought it was a general comment.

GreeBo · 18-01-2018 4:24pm

Angel Dead Apartment wrote: »

But a house isn't crypto, exchange one cryto for another and you are still under the umbrella of crypto which I think is one possible way revenue may look at it and its only when it is really spent/sold for something tangible like a house or currency such as euro that it then is subject to CGT.

No it isn't crypto, but it is an asset, just like crypto is.

You can already pay for things with BTC today, so arguably there is no need to ever convert back to fiat. Following the details of the email shared, revenue.ie are saying "thats ok" no CGT due if you dont dispose back to fiat"

I'm pretty sure this isn't the approach they would want to take, so as I said earlier, I'll wait for published guidelines.

I also find it hard to believe that revenue will reply to a mail without having published anything publicly, but would be delighted to apply for my 2017 tax refund once such guidelines are published!

EagererBeaver · 18-01-2018 5:07pm

Blacktie. wrote: »

Pierce Gentle Lamp wrote:

What is tax evasion? Nobody is suggesting tax evasion this all a discussion on at what point to calculate tax, the actual amount of tax to be paid will be the same either way its just the amount of effort used to calculate it varies quite a lot.

Was meant to quote Jsep there who specifically mentions to avoid paying taxes.

Buying gold is tax evasion? Says who?

Avoidance and evasion are two very different things.

Selik · 18-01-2018 5:52pm

Pierce Gentle Lamp wrote:

If you put in 1k, spend 6 months trading and now have 10k in crypto. withdraw 5k so to calculate the tax you simplay have 5k-1k-1270 = 2730 taxable.

It would actually be 5k less 0.5k less 1,270 = 3,230.

Why? Because you only withdrew 50% of your investment you only count 0.5k as your original amount invested for the purpose of this calculation. Other than that it's a good formula and not a million miles from the way I'm doing things.

Can we pool our knowledge regarding TAX and crypto and make some kind of FAQ/sticky?

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