Was Catholic Ireland better than Modern Ireland?

Asus X540L · 17-01-2018 01:17PM #1

Hardly any crime(Dublin went from having the lowest murder rate for a capital city in Europe to one of the highest during the Tiger), no African gangs terrorizing North Dublin, women not going around dressed like prossies.

A real sense of community. Ok most people didn't have fancy goods but everyone had a roof over their heads and never went hungry unlike today.

MilesMorales1 · 17-01-2018 01:21PM

Nope, next.

Mr. Incognito · 17-01-2018 01:21PM

Paedo priests acting with impunity
Low Employment
High mortality rates
Mother and Baby homes - unlawful incarciration and unlawful adoptions and splintering of families
No contracteption
State suppression and oppression
Mass emigration to escape
Catholic controlled hospitals and schools (still to this day resulting in sub standard care and religious indoctrination)

No. It was not.

the beer revolu · 17-01-2018 01:22PM

No

Sebastian Dangerfield · 17-01-2018 01:22PM

Queue debates I) about proof African gangs are actually doing so, ii) the rights of women to dress as they see fit, iii) the atrocities carried out by the church.

Quick answer - no.

Ciaran_B · 17-01-2018 01:23PM

No

Grab All Association · 17-01-2018 01:23PM

In some parts yes and others absolutely not. We weren’t as rich but were a whole lot happier with what we had. Money corrupts all.

ancapailldorcha · 17-01-2018 01:23PM

Widespread oppression and abuse by the Church means that it's a resounding no from me.

whisky_galore · 17-01-2018 01:23PM

You could clatter the living sh1t out of your wife and abuse your kids as long as it was behind closed doors.

Sonics2k · 17-01-2018 01:24PM

Asus X540L wrote: »

Ok most people didn't have fancy goods but everyone had a roof over their heads and never went hungry unlike today.

hahaha

That's very funny.

Timberrrrrrrr · 17-01-2018 01:24PM

Asus X540L wrote: »

Hardly any crime(Dublin went from having the lowest murder rate for a capital city in Europe to one of the highest during the Tiger), no African gangs terrorizing North Dublin, women not going around dressed like prossies.

A real sense of community. Ok most people didn't have fancy goods but everyone had a roof over their heads and never went hungry unlike today.

Are you really trying to claim there was no homelessness or poverty?

....... · 17-01-2018 01:24PM

This post has been deleted.

wakka12 · 17-01-2018 01:25PM

Crime was lower? You know just because children and women were raped and couldn't say anything about it back then doesnt mean it didn't happen. Id suspect murder rates are similar if not higher back then, policing and recording of crimes has just gotten much better.
Ask any gay person or single mother if catholic ireland was better. Im sure children are happy they're no longer beaten in school either
Yes in some ways I agree it was better such as arguable better sense of community but society is constantly developing and with each cycle of development comes district advantages and disadvanatages. Overall I think the loss of religious control in ireland was overwhelmingly for the better

MilesMorales1 · 17-01-2018 01:25PM

Asus X540L wrote: »

Hardly any crime(Dublin went from having the lowest murder rate for a capital city in Europe to one of the highest during the Tiger), no African gangs terrorizing North Dublin, women not going around dressed like prossies.

A real sense of community. Ok most people didn't have fancy goods but everyone had a roof over their heads and never went hungry unlike today.

Yeah, those institutions the church set up to demonise people sure did a great job.

Sebastian Dangerfield · 17-01-2018 01:25PM

Grab All Association wrote: »

In some parts yes and others absolutely not. We weren’t as rich but were a whole lot happier with what we had. Money corrupts all.

Speak for yourself. The 80s (if in scope for "Catholic Ireland") was miserable for a lot of people. 30s-70s (before my time) don't seem to have been much fun either

Falthyron · 17-01-2018 01:28PM

Frankie Boyle does a good skit on the 'good old days'.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kaq0Ym6OY_k

FrancieBrady · 17-01-2018 01:28PM

On the day that is in it, maybe we should ask Joanne Hayes and her family that question.

whisky_galore · 17-01-2018 01:30PM

It was like another planet...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZjM83wZmWw

DEFTLEFTHAND · 17-01-2018 01:30PM

Something got lost along the way all right.

You would worry about the moral fabric of modern Ireland.

Mokuba · 17-01-2018 01:31PM

I do think something has been lost in modern times.

The social media rubbish, everybody glued to their smart phones. Texting replacing calling and even just speaking in person. Everything having to be documented on snapchat/Instagram for peer validation.

Gradual breakdown of the family unit is another aspect which I feel has gotten worse.

People don't turn into adults now until mid 20s (in general). Young people have role models in YouTube idiots. Nobody seems to have any hobby anymore except for Netflix.

Catholic Ireland definitely wasn't the era to look back on as a bastion of Irish civilisation, but maybe even 20 years ago - things seemed a bit better ( for want of a better word )

eviltwin · 17-01-2018 01:33PM

Yeah it was great. Women were little more than property, gay people were forced to live in secret, single mothers put into homes and forcibly removed from their children, abuse victims like me left helpless because priests were so powerful......great days altogether!!

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 17-01-2018 01:34PM

Asus X540L wrote: »

Hardly any crime(Dublin went from having the lowest murder rate for a capital city in Europe to one of the highest during the Tiger), no African gangs terrorizing North Dublin, women not going around dressed like prossies.

A real sense of community. Ok most people didn't have fancy goods but everyone had a roof over their heads and never went hungry unlike today.

Rose coloured glasses, if ever there were some.

eviltwin · 17-01-2018 01:36PM

Grab All Association wrote: »

In some parts yes and others absolutely not. We weren’t as rich but were a whole lot happier with what we had. Money corrupts all.

Speak for yourself. I was a child in the 80's fully immersed in a Catholic family and I was miserable. I didn't start living until I left home. I wouldn't go back.

One eyed Jack · 17-01-2018 01:37PM

Asus X540L wrote: »

Hardly any crime(Dublin went from having the lowest murder rate for a capital city in Europe to one of the highest during the Tiger), no African gangs terrorizing North Dublin, women not going around dressed like prossies.

Really?

Monto was the nickname for the one-time red light district in Dublin, the capital of Ireland. Monto was roughly the area bounded by Talbot Street, Amiens Street, Gardiner Street and Seán McDermott Street (formerly Gloucester Street). The name is derived from Montgomery Street (now called Foley Street), which runs parallel to the lower end of Talbot Street towards what is now Connolly Station. It was immortalised as "Nighttown" in the "Circe" chapter of James Joyce's famous work, Ulysses, where the central protagonists Leopold Bloom and Stephen Dedalus together visit a brothel.

In its heyday from the 1860s - 1920s, there were anything up to 1,600 prostitutes working there at any one time, with all classes of customers catered for. It was reputed to be the biggest red light district in Europe at the time. Its financial viability was aided by the number of British Army barracks and hence soldiers in the city, notably the Royal Barracks (later Collins Barracks and now one of the locations of Ireland's National Museum).

Monto was also a hive of IRA activity, particularly around the time of the war of independence, with several safe houses for the flying columns which included Phil Shanahan's public house.

Source: Monto, Wikipedia

A real sense of community. Ok most people didn't have fancy goods but everyone had a roof over their heads and never went hungry unlike today.

Ah mate stop it, jesus!

The concept of the deserving and undeserving poor was central to welfare provision throughout this period. Generally associated with middle-class values and perceptions, and often assumed to be an English importation to Ireland, the concept nevertheless became deeply rooted in Irish popular culture. The respectable poor, those who had fallen on hard times through no fault of their own, such as the elderly and disabled, were regarded as deserving of sympathy and relief while those lacking respectability such as vagrants and prostitutes were felt to deserve not assistance but punishment. One of the main criticisms of the poor law system in Ireland was that it failed to discriminate adequately between the respectable and the non-respectable since all destitute people were eligible for relief within the workhouse. Speaking at a public meeting in Granard, County Longford, in 1885, a local Catholic priest asserted that the workhouse system had 'failed miserably. The old and the young, the sane and the crazy, the impure and the virtuous were all huddled into the one institution'.

The Poor Law in Ireland, 1838-1948

In short - Irish society is no different now than it was then.

doolox · 17-01-2018 01:37PM

Contraception not available but more importantly no education as to the possibility of controlling fertility. Most foreign residents even in the '70's could manage to obtain the necessary devices and pharmaceutical stuff once they had the knowledge of what to do and what to look for. Most Irish women were denied access to the knowledge needed to control family size.

eviltwin · 17-01-2018 01:37PM

Just out of interest, how many people who think we were better off back then actually lived then ?

Sue Pa Key Pa · 17-01-2018 01:39PM

At least you could get a proper sized Curly Wurly back then. None of this fun-sized malarkey.

Bring back Dev

Fann Linn · 17-01-2018 01:40PM

Being physically sick in class whilst waiting for the priest to ask those pre Confirmation questions.

No. Glad to see the back of those days.

Ave Sodalis · 17-01-2018 01:42PM

Mokuba wrote:

The social media rubbish, everybody glued to their smart phones. Texting replacing calling and even just speaking in person. Everything having to be documented on snapchat/Instagram for peer validation.

People have always wanted peer validation. The methods have just changed.

Mokuba wrote:

People don't turn into adults now until mid 20s (in general). Young people have role models in YouTube idiots. Nobody seems to have any hobby anymore except for Netflix.

Not that long ago, people were considered adults once they hit sexual maturity. As the life expectancy of a population increases, so does perception of adulthood. As for the hobbies, that's just blatantly untrue.

Foxhound38 · 17-01-2018 01:49PM

Asus X540L wrote: »

Hardly any crime

Plenty of crime - just not as often reported or taken seriously as today. That's not even including the things that were done back then that would be regarded as crimes today (Magladine Laundries etc).

Asus X540L wrote: »

No African gangs terrorizing North Dublin

Ah this old chestnut - I live in North Dublin, in the area where this is meant to be happening and I have not been terrorized by anyone bar door to door chuggers, thanks. It's *almost* as if racists are trying to big up a non-story in order to justify their prejudices.

Also, if you were gay, poor, of a minority religion or a woman (particularly of the unmarried mother variety) then you were terrorized plenty back in "catholic ireland".

Asus X540L wrote: »

Women not going around dressed like prossies.

What's a prossie? Like a protestant? I can see why you would have a problem with that, wanting to bring back holy catholic ireland and all :pac:

Asus X540L wrote: »

A real sense of community. OK most people didn't have fancy goods but everyone had a roof over their heads and never went hungry unlike today.

You're taking the piss, right?

D_D · 17-01-2018 01:50PM

Asus X540L wrote: »

Hardly any crime(Dublin went from having the lowest murder rate for a capital city in Europe to one of the highest during the Tiger), no African gangs terrorizing North Dublin, women not going around dressed like prossies.

A real sense of community. Ok most people didn't have fancy goods but everyone had a roof over their heads and never went hungry unlike today.

Not having statistics indicating the homelessness and poverty rates is not to be confused with it not existing...

Was Catholic Ireland better than Modern Ireland?

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