Solo (young Han Solo film) spoilers from post 1493

Moist Bread · 04-01-2018 06:04PM

Auroras_encore wrote: »

Jesus Christ! han solo is a white male, Harrison Ford is a white male, stick your pc nonsense where the sun don't shine

If it's a reboot/reimagining I have no issue. But I presumed we were talking about this new Han Solo movie which is set in the current timeline of the Star Wars universe. So it wouldn't make sense for him to be anything other than a white male. Maybe I am the literal embodiment of Hitler for saying so, but hey, so be it.

Moist Bread · 04-01-2018 06:07PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Not trying to paint you as anything. Just pointing out that when it comes to cinema, especially a piece of popcorn fluff like Star Wars the race and gender of a character is far less important than the writing. If the Han Solo in the new film was Black or even a woman I'd be far more inclined to go see it simply to see why they made that choice. As it stands I have zero interest in the film as it stands.

Also, if the prequel was reboot you would have no issue with a black female Han Solo?

Can you read? I have said as much in my previous posts.

This is not a reboot however.

Arbitrary · 04-01-2018 06:08PM

Goodshape wrote: »

Congratulations. You're an inspiration to us all.

Of course you completely breeze over the point I was making and twist my comment in a completely different way, in order to further a point which is based on an assumption you incorrectly made from the getgo. Classy. I can picture the smug look on your face.

A disengeious way to try and belittle in order to shut down and or derail a discussion, but I'm not biting.

It's a perfect example of seamless character diversification which works well and doesn't detract from the story line, and if anything it enhances it. TFA is the complete opposite. But hang on, that's not primarily why I dislike the film, another of your assumptions.

Goodshape wrote: »

You might ask yourself why, out of all the myriad of faults with the film, it was the "Politically Correct" attitude (whatever that's supposed to actually mean) that made you "queasy".

Finally some sense from you, do pay attention because I didn't mention which specific PC nonsense it is which irked me, and I'm not about to either seeming as you're already frothing at the mouth. This aside, you're also assuming that I didn't like the film solely due it's PC nature. Again, your assumption, starting to notice pattern here?

You assume it's the PC nature of the film that made me queasy, again these are your assumptions that YOU are making. Another swing and a miss.

The film was unbearable, regardless of the PC bull**** which I strongly disliked. It's a Disney **** show in this respect which is most prominently featured in TLJ compared to TFA and RO.

I was apprehensive about Disney taking over the Franchise, but I was excited about it after TFA and RO which I enjoyed. After watching the TFA, I'm out.

I made a snipe about it's PC nature and you got your knickers in a twist and made a whole bunch of incorrect assumptions that this is the sole reason I dislike the film.

To the point whereby you're now making subtle insinuations trying to label me with whatever word it is ending in ist.

Goodshape · 04-01-2018 06:08PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Also, if the prequel was reboot you would have no issue with a black female Han Solo?

If it's a reboot then whatever. Change things up. As it stands, this is the guy who boned Princess Leia and produced a child who's a major character in his own right.

Male is part of this character.

GetWithIt · 04-01-2018 06:13PM

Reads first page - oh this will be an interesting read.

Reads last page - what dafuq?

Goodshape · 04-01-2018 06:16PM

Arbitrary wrote: »

Of course you completely breeze over the point I was making and twist my comment in a completely different way, in order to further a point which is based on an assumption you incorrectly made from the getgo. Classy. I can picture the smug look on your face.

Firstly, the 'point' you were making was a hairs-breath away from "I have a black friend!", so... pretty weak.

Secondly, you're right – that was a bit of a ****ty comment. I edited my post a couple of minutes later and removed it. You must have been a while writing your response :-/

I didn't mention which specific PC nonsense it is which irked me

No, you didn't. What am I supposed to infer from "PC nonsense" if not some relation of race/gender/sexuality?

and I'm not about to either

Really? That's... not going to work in your favour.

pixelburp · 04-01-2018 06:18PM

Deleted User wrote: »

How about when they changed Starbuck to a woman? Was it not set in stone that Starbuck was a man? Or what about Lucy Liu in Elementary, a female Watson, disgraceful carry on.

If you have an issue with a character being played by someone of a differnt race or gender then the problem is yours.

Those comparisons don't track because there was never an insinuation that those versions of Watson & Starbuck were the exact same as the previous incarnations; if anything Watson is something of a blank canvas character, and has been played by a vast range of male actors & appearances so Liu's casting wasn't that wild. He / she is the ultimate audience surrogate and 'Elementary' played a blinder in making Joan Watson a legitimate, fascinating character.

You say the script is all, but clearly in cinema there's more to a film than just the writing; a little visual continuity in a linked set of films is not exactly a huge burden, or a particularly high bar to vault. If you're going to tell a story about the younger years of character X, why on earth would you cast anyone else other than an actor who at least resembles the older version? "Right for the part" can also include "do they look a bit like Harrison Ford?" . No, technically the casting doesn't matter a jot to the story, sure, but just for the sake of some visual consistency it'd be a pretty redundant decision, one that'd end up being more trouble than its worth.

david75 · 04-01-2018 06:27PM

I’m gay and I have absolutely no interest in ever seeing a gay storyline or couple in Star Wars unless it was vital to the story. That doesn’t mean I don’t want a gay character to turn up but if it doesn’t add to the story it should be left out. So I’m not screaming for gay representation.
Different ethnicities in Star Wars though? And equal representation for women?
It’s long overdue. And it’s not detrimental to the story, it’s goihg To Be the same story regardless of the ethnicity or gender of the actor or actress in the role.
It’s a massive galaxy and it’s really ridiculous to assume (and seemingly demand) that the stories be mainly about white males with the odd chick thrown in for eye candy.
Where are these people coming from that are issuing this stuff? I can’t understand it at all. Are they that insecure in their own masculinity (or ethnicity) that something like Star Wars being inclusive is offednding them? How????

FYI Lucas originally toyed with the idea of having OT Star Wars Be in Japanese and played by Japanese and Asian actors. Also considered using an entire cast of little people for the OT as well.

It is not the sole property of white (now middle aged) males nor was it ever.

Andrew Beef · 04-01-2018 06:31PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If the Han Solo in the new film was Black or even a woman I'd be far more inclined to go see it simply to see why they made that choice. As it stands I have zero interest in the film as it stands

What an extraordinary statement...

04-01-2018 06:32PM

My point was more in general and a reply to the people who seem to think that the SJW casting is what hurt The Last Jedi. While yes, in a prequel or sequel getting an actor of the same gender is a big thing but my points were more in general. There is this idea that if a character is seen as white then only white actors can play it, remember the Bond fans crying about Idris Elba or the comic fanboys upset when there was talk of a black Spiderman.

I also don't think that you need to cast an actor who resembles the original actor, looking like someone is something that people seem to rate in bio pics but honestly, some of the best bio pics cast the least likely people and it worked out.

People are saying that this Solo is a prequel but let's be honest here, Disney are no doubt eyeing this as a reboot. If it pulls in money expect a whole slew of Han Solo films.

If Watson as a character is a blank canvas then so too is every character or do the rules change when the character is played by a variety of people and acts some what as the audience entry point to a film.

pjohnson · 04-01-2018 06:34PM

Andrew Beef wrote: »

What an extraordinary statement...

It'd make the movie unique I guess. We get to see how the black man or the lady morphed into Harrison Ford.

johnny_ultimate · 04-01-2018 06:34PM

Mod note: Please lay off the personalised, sniping comments against other posters. If you think a point being made is ridiculous, discuss the point and not the person making it.

FunLover18 · 04-01-2018 06:35PM

Deleted User wrote: »

If the race or gender of a character affects how you view a piece of cinema then that says more about you than anything else. I don't think it matters who is cast in a role as long as they are the best person for the role. I would have no issue with Han Solo being portrayed by a woman if the script was strong and the film good. Diversity is not something people should be afraid of.

In fairness Darko, you never stated whether you were talking about a reboot or a film set within the current continuity. If the follow-up to Harry Potter & The Philosopher's Stone had been Harriet Potter & The Chamber of Secrets, I think people would be reasonably miffed. However if they did a reboot about Harriet, I think most reasonable people would be OK with it.

04-01-2018 06:38PM

Moist Bread wrote:

A new Star Wars movie with a female lead who is a smuggler/outlaw would be fine. I'd rather see a movie like that than going back to the OT well for characters.

Moist Bread wrote:

Han Solo is a white male. You cannot change that. Otherwise, what's the point of the character? You think you could change Chewie to be a Jawa too?

My comments were in relation to these. The implication of those posts us that you cannot change Solo to a woman. While the user clarified later that a female Solo in a reboot would be fine those post there paint a picture that Solo can only be a white man.

nix · 04-01-2018 06:44PM

I don't see the point in changing a characters sex, colour, why not just create a new character and give them their own story?

Moist Bread · 04-01-2018 06:45PM

Deleted User wrote: »

My comments were in relation to these. The implication of those posts us that you cannot change Solo to a woman. While the user clarified later that a female Solo in a reboot would be fine those post there paint a picture that Solo can only be a white man.

I stand by my point that you should not change the race/gender of a character in a self contained series as it would ruin continuity.

It's a thread about a movie set in the established Star Wars universe. I don't think I was wrong to assume that that's the setting we were talking about.

I will put this down as a case of crossed wires.

Andrew Beef · 04-01-2018 06:46PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

My comments were in relation to these. The implication of those posts us that you cannot change Solo to a woman. While the user clarified later that a female Solo in a reboot would be fine those post there paint a picture that Solo can only be a white man.

The prequels are just that...prequels...they are not reboots. Therefore Han Solo has to be white and male.

However, in a reboot scenario, he could be black but he could not be female.

pixelburp · 04-01-2018 06:47PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I also don't think that you need to cast an actor who resembles the original actor, looking like someone is something that people seem to rate in bio pics but honestly, some of the best bio pics cast the least likely people and it worked out.

People are saying that this Solo is a prequel but let's be honest here, Disney are no doubt eyeing this as a reboot. If it pulls in money expect a whole slew of Han Solo films.

If Watson as a character is a blank canvas then so too is every character or do the rules change when the character is played by a variety of people and acts some what as the audience entry point to a film.

Watson was a blank canvas because the stories were specifically about Holmes and his almost supernatural talent. Anyone could - and did! - play Watson because Conan Doyle basically wrote him as a blank page, a cipher with only nominal physical presence, there simply to narrate the story and applaud Holmes' genius.

So to is the case in characters who occupy more of a set of ideas, than an actual definable set of characteristics or personality. James Bond for instance; he's more icon than human being, a male fantasy figure, so visual identity isn't such a big deal in my opinion.

But once you actually establish a through-line of form, structure, context and a history into a character then yes, the consistency of their physical appearance can became a point. But as I said, why wouldn't you not try and maintain a visual similarity between a young and older version of the EXACT SAME version of the character?

If I passed some manuscripts for some novels to an editor, where the appearance of a key character explicitly kept changing book to book, it'd be thrown back in my face immediately & rightly so - why does cinema get a pass for what would be the same scenario & the simplest of visual consistencies (unless as already stated we're talking about a reboot of a character).

04-01-2018 07:35PM

pixelburp wrote:

But once you actually establish a through-line of form, structure, context and a history into a character then yes, the consistency of their physical appearance can became a point. But as I said, why wouldn't you not try and maintain a visual similarity between a young and older version of the EXACT SAME version of the character?

If I passed some manuscripts for some novels to an editor, where the appearance of a key character explicitly kept changing book to book, it'd be thrown back in my face immediately & rightly so - why does cinema get a pass for what would be the same scenario & the simplest of visual consistencies (unless as already stated we're talking about a reboot of a character).

What film series has characters who change drastically from film to film? Bar comic books I can't think of any book or film where characters vary from one story to the next.

The whole consistent look for a character is all well and good but what happens when an actor decides they don't want to return to a role they ate known for playing? Do they have to reboot or else cast someone similar so as to keep the character visually consistent? Does Ben Affleck's Batman replacement have to be someone of similar age and appearance? If Chris Hemsworth leaves the Marvel films does the new Thor have to look like a ripped blonde surfer?

david75 · 04-01-2018 07:45PM

This was a topic when they were casting Han for this.
You don’t want someone who can do a perfect Harrison Ford impression.
You want someone who can emulate a slightly younger Han. arrogant but funny. Mercenary, as in hed sell you out for his own gain, but with a heart and moral compass that will come good. And with a natural swagger and confidence.
That’s a tall task. A really almost impossible task.
Alden Erinreich hopefully can bring that. Looks or ethnicity don’t really come into that.

Arbitrary · 04-01-2018 07:55PM

Goodshape wrote: »

You must have been a while writing your response :-/

Judging by your previous comments I think it's fair to assume this is another weak attempt at a personal swipe. It says a lot about you when you have to resort to personal insults and snide little digs. It's pathetic tbh.

This discussion belongs in the TLJ thread and not here.

radonicus · 04-01-2018 08:50PM

Andrew Beef wrote: »

What an extraordinary statement...

Fascinating.

Saruhashi · 04-01-2018 09:32PM

Deleted User wrote: »

If the race or gender of a character affects how you view a piece of cinema then that says more about you than anything else. I don't think it matters who is cast in a role as long as they are the best person for the role. I would have no issue with Han Solo being portrayed by a woman if the script was strong and the film good. Diversity is not something people should be afraid of.

I would absolutely love it if they did this.

The plot could be that Hannah Solo discovers that Jabba has been paying her only 75% of what the other male smugglers have been getting paid.

Boba Fett could be a "Typical Huwhite Male" who was once friends with Hannah Solo but they fell out due to Bobas constant mansplaining, manspreading and all round toxic masculinity.

Turns out Boba Fett is dating a sassy obese non-binary Wookie with purple fur but he body shames xir constantly and forces xir to have dinner on the table every night after a hard days bounty hunting.

Hannah and Chewie hatch a plan to run away together. They start up their own ethical smuggling operation run by women only using their ship the "Stunning and Brave Falcon".

I already love that it subverts expectations AND totally deconstructs the character of Han Solo! It's PERFECT!

I bet those nasty Star Wars fanboys would hate it. GOOD!

david75 · 04-01-2018 10:26PM

Saruhashi wrote: »

I would absolutely love it if they did this.

The plot could be that Hannah Solo discovers that Jabba has been paying her only 75% of what the other male smugglers have been getting paid.

Boba Fett could be a "Typical Huwhite Male" who was once friends with Hannah Solo but they fell out due to Bobas constant mansplaining, manspreading and all round toxic masculinity.

Turns out Boba Fett is dating a sassy obese non-binary Wookie with purple fur but he body shames xir constantly and forces xir to have dinner on the table every night after a hard days bounty hunting.

Hannah and Chewie hatch a plan to run away together. They start up their own ethical smuggling operation run by women only using their ship the "Stunning and Brave Falcon".

I already love that it subverts expectations AND totally deconstructs the character of Han Solo! It's PERFECT!

I bet those nasty Star Wars fanboys would hate it. GOOD!

You said 45,000,000 people saw TLJ opening night. (Yes you did. And no it was nothing like that amount. If only). But. I Reckon your hannah pitch would work though.
Let’s pitch it. Well make billions

Tony EH · 05-01-2018 12:32AM

pixelburp wrote: »

I guarantee if Aliens came out this year, there'd be people on the internet decrying its cast as 'PC', up in arms over transforming Ripley into a gung-ho action lead, how all the male soldiers are basically morons (Hudson in particular) - and hell, in the current climate you'd probably have some people getting uppity about the anti-corporation message represented by Carter Burke.

You'd swear the way some people bang on that the notion of a black / female / gay lead is so WILD a concept, that it's impossible for an audience to relate to this exotic, foreign creature that's in the lead.

The difference is the fact that it's trumpeted so loudly now, as if this kind of thing absolutely never existed before and it hails from quarters that are so fond of patting themselves on the back so much.

Hollywood doesn't care a jot for, so called, "diversity".

They do care about certain sounds though. Especially the sound of cha ching that cash registers make around the globe.

Tony EH · 05-01-2018 12:37AM

Deleted User wrote: »

If the race or gender of a character affects how you view a piece of cinema then that says more about you than anything else. I don't think it matters who is cast in a role as long as they are the best person for the role. I would have no issue with Han Solo being portrayed by a woman if the script was strong and the film good. Diversity is not something people should be afraid of.

What's "diverse" about that?

That's just dumb.

Han Solo is an already established make character. Him suddenly having a hollywood sex change serves no real purpose whatsoever.

Here's something wild though...make a new character, that just happens to be female and that possibly exhibits some of the same traits as Solo. Or shock/horror entirely new character traits.

Is that so bloody difficult?

05-01-2018 12:46AM

Really unexcited for this tbh. The new films are patchy at best. Rogue One is a story that didn't need to be told. I feel the same about this. Of course I'll go see it regardless.

Tony EH · 05-01-2018 01:00AM

It probably didn't need to be told, but 'Rogue One' still told its story well. It added to the over all tale and didn't fuck up anything along the way.

The problem with this 'Solo' thing, is that it's a film about Han Solo, that hasn't got Han Solo in it and it's going to try and "explain" a lot of things that simply don't need explaining.

I couldn't be arsed about going to see it either, and it'll really take something to get me into a cinema to watch it, or parhaps watch it at all.

05-01-2018 01:15AM

Tony EH wrote: »

It probably didn't need to be told, but 'Rogue One' still told its story well. It added to the over all tale and didn't fuck up anything along the way.

The problem with this 'Solo' thing, is that it's a film about Han Solo, that hasn't got Han Solo in it and it's going to try and "explain" a lot of things that simply don't need explaining.

I couldn't be arsed about going to see it either, and it'll really take something to get me into a cinema to watch it, or parhaps watch it at all.

I'll respectfully disagree about Rogue One. One of the worst in the franchise imo.

david75 · 05-01-2018 02:07AM

Tony EH wrote: »

It probably didn't need to be told, but 'Rogue One' still told its story well. It added to the over all tale and didn't fuck up anything along the way.

The problem with this 'Solo' thing, is that it's a film about Han Solo, that hasn't got Han Solo in it and it's going to try and "explain" a lot of things that simply don't need explaining.

I couldn't be arsed about going to see it either, and it'll really take something to get me into a cinema to watch it, or parhaps watch it at all.

It’s not Peter Mayhew in the chewbacca suit in TFA TLJ or Han. But it’s still chewie on screen.
It’s not Kenny baker in the R2 unit in TFA or TLJ. It’s still R2 onscreen.
It’s not Harrison Ford playing han in Solo. It’ll still be Han onscreen.

Solo (young Han Solo film) *spoilers from post 1493*

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Solo (young Han Solo film) spoilers from post 1493