Breaking: At least 1 man dead after stabbing rampage in Dundalk

Skedaddle · 04-01-2018 03:52PM

ThisRegard wrote: »

And as Alun has posted more than once, it is being reported outside of Ireland. But yet people persist with their dumb conspiracy theories.

Well, certain people have figured out that if you keep posting something enough times that it starts to become accepted as fact by many people. So they will just continue to ignore all evidence and keep ranting and raving.

It's often difficult for them to comprehend that they could be incorrect when they are used to posting statements into a bubble of similarly minded people who just reenforce what they say and don't fact check, or query any of the statements that are being made.

That's how we got Trump, that's how we got Brexit and that's how we're going to end up with more chaos in coming years if we don't start questioning statements again rather than just hitting the "retweet" button.

Alun · 04-01-2018 03:53PM

inforfun wrote: »

Couple of lines, incomplete\ill informed. ("unclear if all 3 attacks were done by the same guy".... was that ever in doubt?) by the state broadcaster on their website.

2 newspaper links when i google "Dundalk steekpartij Japanner"

I can tell you, it is not widely reported in The Netherlands

https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/1498039/man-steekt-passant-dood-in-ierland

https://www.ad.nl/buitenland/egyptenaar-steekt-in-ierland-een-man-dood-en-verwondt-twee-anderen~abaec455/

So, the state broadcaster covers it, plus the two biggest newspapers. How widely would you like to have seen it reported?

Del.Monte · 04-01-2018 03:58PM

Alun wrote: »

Again ...

https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/heute/messerattacke-in-irland-polizei-schliesst-terror-nicht-aus-100.html

http://www.bild.de/news/ausland/irland/ein-toter-zwei-verletzte-bei-messerattacke-54363940.bild.html

https://www.zvw.de/inhalt.irland-ein-toter-und-mehrere-verletzte-bei-messerattacke-in-irland.5f7b45be-1dbb-42b3-8af4-7b8c27c586b2.html

http://www.nachrichten.at/nachrichten/weltspiegel/Messerattacke-in-Irland-Polizei-schliesst-Terror-nicht-aus;art17,2777477

... and so on.

Don't let the facts get in the way.

Skedaddle · 04-01-2018 04:00PM

Del.Monte wrote: »

Don't let the facts get in the way.

Of a good conspiracy theory?

BillyBobBS · 04-01-2018 04:01PM

Mutant z wrote: »

Get rid of all open border politicians now and replace them with those who actually care for this country the time has come to shut the borders it should be done asap or we will become a security risk is that what we want for this country because it certainly isnt what i want.

Imo i'd say there is a hell of a lot of politicians sitting in the Dail who know the open borders policy is a disaster but are afraid to put their head above the parapet in fear of the liberals going after them. Nobody can tell me every single one of them is is that stupid. We must be the only country in Europe where we haven't got a single politician who opposes it in public. Pure cowards to a man and woman.

recedite · 04-01-2018 04:03PM

Skedaddle wrote: »

Well, it's as much interest to those people as a similar incident might be in some small French town to Irish people.

What, like that elderly French priest that was stabbed to death?
Shoppers in a Swedish Ikea stabbed, off duty soldier in England stabbed, German landlady who foolishly took in asylum seekers stabbed. I think there were a several small scale axe attacks as well. Plus the bigger van attacks, lorry attacks shootings etc..

Its not so much that ordinary Europeans are uninterested, its just that the novelty of this stuff has worn off. You'd probably need 5 or more simultaneous killings now to grab the media's attention. Mind you, this guy did attempt 3.

The fact that it was Ireland for the first time had some brief novelty value. But that's gone now. Next time it will have to be something far bigger to get any attention elsewhere in Europe.

Del.Monte · 04-01-2018 04:04PM

Wibbs wrote: »

You require both to make the hope a reality. The problem is in this debate the pro multiculturalism folks seem to avoid the realities as much as possible.

For me it doesn't matter so much the why it doesn't work, but that it doesn't. Yes the lack of welcome is a major factor, the culture clash, basic human tribalism, ghettoisation, economics are all factors. The failure is the bastard child with many fathers and because of that even if you could wave a magic wand and get rid of one or two of these factors the problem would be there.

In the end I see it like this; monocultures, or cultures that are very close in makeup are quite simply more socially stable than multicultures. We have our own internal issues and it beggars belief for me why so many are so willing to import more issues to no real benefit.

Someone earlier noted that people in the North of this island were able to work the two cultures thing out in the end(still debatable) against a background of over 3000 people dead. It cost the lives of 3000 people to do it, never mind the ongoing economic costs. If you could go back in time to the Plantations and stop them, no doubt other crap would have gone down, but not an centuries old civil war.

We are in the rare enough position within Europe in that we have the opportunity to observe other European nations over many decades with their experiences of multiculturalism and where it has led them and we have the opportunity to not go down the same road as them. To follow them into this morass of a failed experiment seems to me beyond idiotic.

AAEAAQAAAAAAAAgoAAAAJGY3OGFhM2FjLTJiOTctNDA0Zi04MjQ1LTY2ZGI2OTQxOWMyZg.jpg

Skedaddle · 04-01-2018 04:17PM

The key thing that's not being done is a serious and global effort to bring peace to current war zones of the Middle East and North Africa and stop these crazy and destabilising regime change type approaches.

In every case, they've basically toppled a nasty authoritarian regime in a country that ran like a medieval kingdom dressed up as a modern country and that's resulted in absolute pandemonium, vast numbers of deaths as various factions jump in to try to grab power.

The human cost of that is being obviously most felt by those directly impacted, but it's also being borne by neighbouring countries and by many non-militarily active European countries that are near by.

The country that is most involved in these, the US, is quite happy to adopt a really aggressive stance towards refugees and have someone else clean up the mess and I don't think anyone is particularly interested in seeking refuge in Russia nor did I see any signs of it being offered.

If you want to deal with the current migration crisis, you can only really do so by starting to solve those problems and also by facing down the belligerent countries that are continuously kicking these things off.

The EU should also throw its economic weight around more and pressure the big oil wealthy middle eastern players in that sphere to do a hell of a lot more to avoid these situations.

testaccount123 · 04-01-2018 04:19PM

Skedaddle wrote: »

The key thing that's not being done is a serious and global effort to bring peace to current war zones of the Middle East and North Africa

Yeah good luck with that.

Skedaddle · 04-01-2018 04:20PM

testaccount123 wrote: »

Yeah good luck with that.

That's the problem though. There's no will do do anything about it.

You've a bunch of crackpots who end up having to deal with none or few of the consequences of their actions having war games effectively at other people's expense.

Until someone starts to put serious economic pressure on, it ain't going to change and people are going to keep spilling out over the borders fleeing from wars and chaos.

testaccount123 · 04-01-2018 04:22PM

Skedaddle wrote: »

That's the problem though. There's no will do do anything about it.

Again, why is it up to "us" to do anything about it?

seamus · 04-01-2018 04:24PM

Wibbs wrote: »

In the end I see it like this; monocultures, or cultures that are very close in makeup are quite simply more socially stable than multicultures. We have our own internal issues and it beggars belief for me why so many are so willing to import more issues to no real benefit.

You see, I believe this is kind of begging the question.

It reminds me of the survey that the catholics were trumpeting a year or two back - "Married couples more likely to stay together than unmarried ones" - making claims about suitability for raising children and the power of love and other crap.

Of course, they missed the obvious point that stable non-marriages tend to become stable marriages.

Likewise, "multicultures" are a flux state. Unstable by default. Multicultures adapt and become monocultures as they intermix and generate new traditions.

The problems arise when you try to keep them in the "multiculture" state through whatever means. This is usually a policy adopted by those in favour of monocultures who disapprove of any change or intermixing and place barriers (social, physical, legal or financial) to prevent or discourage intermixing.

And just like trying to maintain an unstable atomic configuration, it's eventually going to decay and try to revert to a stable state no matter what you do.

Your example of Northern Ireland is a good one. There were two cultures forcibly kept apart for centuries, and it cost thousands of lives until the barriers were torn down and they were permitted to merge into one. Now they're well on the way to becoming a well integrated and peaceful monoculture.

The same is true very now. All of the examples of multiculturalism "failing" are places where there have been concerted efforts to prevent intermixing (or allow cultures to isolate themselves).

Skedaddle · 04-01-2018 04:26PM

testaccount123 wrote: »

Again, why is it up to "us" to do anything about it?

Because ultimately 'we' end up picking up the costs of the issues being caused in terms of having to deal with huge humanitarian burdens. It has direct impacts on what should normally be a functioning EU trade bloc.

Like it or not, we're interconnected with the rest of the world and the region of the world we are in.

There's been no willingness to openly challenge warmongering politics from the US, Russia or the big middle eastern powers involved. The UK effectively doesn't have an independent military policy and is prepared to just do whatever it's told and the French are kinda dragged into stuff every now and again too.

The rest of Europe just seems to get dragged along no these crazy plans and nobody ever seems to just say stop, or try to develop a less ridiculous set of foreign policies that might result in some kind of sanity being restored.

recedite · 04-01-2018 04:30PM

Skedaddle wrote: »

The key thing that's not being done is a serious and global effort to bring peace to current war zones of the Middle East and North Africa and stop these crazy and destabilising regime change type approaches.

Well, if you take Syria where the "genuine" refugees are coming from...
They had a dictator trying to keep a lid on the age old conflict between sunnis and shia. They had massive overpopulation building up over a decade or so, and just prior to the civil war they had a severe drought. Large numbers of unemployed and angry young men wandering about. History tells us that war, famine, mass emigration (or all three) were predictable.

Its not actually our business to run their country for them. Unless you want to go back to the colonial mentality?
Our obligation is to our own citizens. And those who are in our country legally, like that unfortunate japanese guy. We had a duty of care to him, and we failed in it.

04-01-2018 04:30PM

ThisRegard wrote: »

Mark Humphreys, he's no dog in this race for it to be anything but such an attack.

He even backtracked himself on that tweet.

Grudgingly by the looks of it. He's devastated he mightn't get the chance to add 2 and 2 and come up with 2 billion or something like that...........

pilly · 04-01-2018 04:33PM

weldoninhio wrote: »

The floor is all yours if you want to refute any of the figures. Head in the sand by any chance??

The figures have been well refuted already by other posters.

Mountainsandh · 04-01-2018 04:35PM

Alun wrote: »

Again ...

https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/heute/messerattacke-in-irland-polizei-schliesst-terror-nicht-aus-100.html

... and so on.

France too

http://www.ledauphine.com/france-monde/2018/01/03/meurtre-au-couteau-et-attaques-a-la-barre-de-fer-la-piste-terroriste-envisagee

https://actu17.fr/irlande-mort-2-blesses-attaque-couteau-suspect-arrete-piste-terroriste-etudiee/

RobertKK · 04-01-2018 04:37PM

testaccount123 wrote: »

This trumpesque media conspiracy rubbish is beyond tiresome.

Macron is talking about bringing in laws against fake news, saying he has been subject to it.

04-01-2018 04:40PM

Lionofjudah wrote: »

Islamization of Britain is now complete. Here's how the British have passively succumbed to the Muslim invasion;

Mayor of London: Muslim
Mayor of Birmingham: Muslim
Mayor of Leeds: Muslim
Mayor of Blackburn: Muslim
Mayor of Sheffield: Muslim
Mayor of Oxford: Muslim
Mayor of Luton: Muslim
Mayor of Oldham: Muslim
Mayor of Rochdale: Muslim

All this achieved by just 4 million muslims out of a population of 66 million

How many of the above are members of the Conservative, Labour and Lib Dem political parties? Or maybe there's some secret Muslim society like the Freemasons thats getting them into power............?

Wibbs · 04-01-2018 04:49PM

seamus wrote: »

The problems arise when you try to keep them in the "multiculture" state through whatever means. This is usually a policy adopted by those in favour of monocultures who disapprove of any change or intermixing and place barriers (social, physical, legal or financial) to prevent or discourage intermixing.

Sure.

And just like trying to maintain an unstable atomic configuration, it's eventually going to decay and try to revert to a stable state no matter what you do.

Which is fine if A) we're prepared to suffer the birth pangs of such a trajectory and

if two cultures can revert to a stable state. Take the culture de jour Islam. Particularly of the Middle Eastern sort. It is and always has been designed from the get go to not subsume itself into other cultures. It's close to a religious duty not to. So how long do you think a thousand year old culture like that would take to hit a common ground. The closest it got was in the early part of the 20th century in places like Iran, Iraq, even Afghanistan, but it didn't last long and that inbuilt self correcting mechanism came back in force.

Your example of Northern Ireland is a good one. There were two cultures forcibly kept apart for centuries, and it cost thousands of lives until the barriers were torn down and they were permitted to merge into one. Now they're well on the way to becoming a well integrated and peaceful monoculture.

On the way maybe, but there is still two factions on the go in the place and as I said if you could have prevented all that strife and death and injury in the first place who wouldn't.

The same is true very now. All of the examples of multiculturalism "failing" are places where there have been concerted efforts to prevent intermixing (or allow cultures to isolate themselves).

Slight issue there S, what if cultures want to isolate themselves? Most do and follow the same path of building up around community cores like religious centres, or even just a natural tendency for people wanting to hang out and live together in a place to become Chinatown, Irishtown, etc. How do you stop that?

Ancient Rome was one of the few multicultural places to exist and exist for the most part harmoniously. A couple of things stand out. It was an Empire for a start. There were pretty much no examples of Jewish/Spanish/Arab quarters in the city of Rome. They lived cheek by jowl(even the rich and poor often did). Secondly you were Roman first and foremost and any obvious drift from that was stamped out ruthlessly. And Rome was very "right wing" by our standards. Can't see that working today.

ancapailldorcha · 04-01-2018 04:54PM

Deleted User wrote: »

How many of the above are members of the Conservative, Labour and Lib Dem political parties? Or maybe there's some secret Muslim society like the Freemasons thats getting them into power............?

Don't bother, it's just more far right lies:

https://fullfact.org/news/muslims-uk-viral-poster-factchecked/

Lionofjudah wrote: »

Islamization of Britain is now complete. Here's how the British have passively succumbed to the Muslim invasion;

Mayor of London: Muslim
Mayor of Birmingham: Muslim
Mayor of Leeds: Muslim
Mayor of Blackburn: Muslim
Mayor of Sheffield: Muslim
Mayor of Oxford: Muslim
Mayor of Luton: Muslim
Mayor of Oldham: Muslim
Mayor of Rochdale: Muslim

All this achieved by just 4 million muslims out of a population of 66 million

Over 3000 mosques
Over 130 Muslim Sharia Courts
Over 50 Muslim Sharia Court Councils
Muslim Only no-go areas across the UK
Muslim women.... 78% don't work and are on FREE benefit/housing
Muslim men... 63% don't work and are on FREE benefit/housing
Muslim families... 6-8 children planning to go on FREE benefit/housing and now all UK schools are ONLY serving Halal meat.

Ireland is well on its way in the same direction. The joys of the EU and Angela Merkels migrant policy.

This is basically why I just assume that the far right is lying by default.

inforfun · 04-01-2018 04:59PM

Alun wrote: »

https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/1498039/man-steekt-passant-dood-in-ierland

https://www.ad.nl/buitenland/egyptenaar-steekt-in-ierland-een-man-dood-en-verwondt-twee-anderen~abaec455/

So, the state broadcaster covers it, plus the two biggest newspapers. How widely would you like to have seen it reported?

Can you read Dutch?
If so, do you call that NOS article "covering" yesterdays events?
We are almost 24 hours later and they still havent updated that all attacks were done by the same guy. That is not covering. That is typing a few lines.
Now i doubt many Dutch are that interested but that is a different story.

Alun · 04-01-2018 05:03PM

inforfun wrote: »

Can you read Dutch?[

Absolutely, I lived and worked there for 13 years.

If so, do you call that NOS article "covering" yesterdays events?

Yes.

We are almost 24 hours later and they still havent updated that all attacks were done by the same guy. That is not covering. That is typing a few lines.

That's your own personal interpretation of "covering" to suit yourself. It's as much as I would expect in any foreign media coverage of such an event.

end of the road · 04-01-2018 05:06PM

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

Poland and Hungary are not divided countries at all. They've gone the best route in securing their borders and not allowing non-european migrants to get a foothold in their countries, they've gone about it the right way .

poland and hungary have non-europeans living within them. a good number of them as well. so, their border controls haven't stopped non-europeans from getting a foothold.

malinheader wrote: »

I would also be in favour of controlled immigration once this country has its health service and housing crisis in a fit state to look after its own citizens. Until then shut the door and take care of our own.

it's not viable for us to shut the door and only take care of our own. we are going to need some immigration, shutting the door completely would bankrupt us eventually and put off companies from relocating here and other foreign investment. we can afford to have proper high standard public services, the government just do not wish to pay for them and it seems neither do many of the people, who vote for the same **** show again and again.

weldoninhio wrote: »

That Garda now has blood on their hands.

no, he doesn't. the attacker is the one who has blood on his hands, and hopefully he will face the full force of the law.

Lionofjudah wrote: »

Islam is the problem. I don't care about the colour of your skin or your country of origin however if you are a believer in the quran and follow its principles then you are an alien in Western society and your practices are potentially dangerous to others.

If we call ourselves a Christian nation which we are far from at this particular moment then just look at what the Quran teaches in its conduct towards us;

Qur’an 9:29—"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

That is just the tip of the iceberg. If we continue to invite Islamic immigrants into this country we'll have the same problems as the UK is having, Sweden (where there are no-go areas because of Sharia Law), Germany, Belgium etc. Study the Quran and learn its principles then you will see how potentially dangerous it is to Western civilization.

ireland is a secular nation thankfully. islam is not the problem, islamic extremists are the problem. just like christianity as a whole wasn't the problem in ireland years ago, it was catholic extremists. as for your "verses from the qur'an" no doubt they are either fake or completely taken out of context, as those who quote from it on this thread usually do.

Eliza Tall Stance wrote: »

Australian Points system!

that system is not a very reliable system.

ThisRegard wrote: »

I'm loving the fact that those who love to use phrases such as snowflakes and like to use grand stereotypes are getting so upset about that particular post by Joeytheparrot. Brilliantly ironic when those on 4chan pretty much posted in delight when it happened.

agreed, it's brilliant. Joeytheparrot is always on the button in relation to these type of posters. long may it continue!

testaccount123 · 04-01-2018 05:10PM

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

This is basically why I just assume that the far right is lying by default.

But how do you know who is 'far-right'?

testaccount123 · 04-01-2018 05:11PM

end of the road wrote: »

it's not viable for us to shut the door and only take care of our own. we are going to need some immigration

I wish we could trade you for an immigrant

Banned.

FTA69 · 04-01-2018 05:13PM

Have the Guards ruled out terrorism so?

04-01-2018 05:14PM

end of the road wrote: »

ireland is a secular nation thankfully. islam is not the problem, islamic extremists are the problem. just like christianity as a whole wasn't the problem in ireland years ago, it was catholic extremists. as for your "verses from the qur'an" no doubt they are either fake or completely taken out of context, as those who quote from it on this thread usually do.

And you're au fait with the Quran are you? How would you know the context of it? Do you have it on your bedroom wall?

end of the road wrote: »

Joeytheparrot is always on the button in relation to these type of posters. long may it continue!

Nah, joeytheparrot is very partial to telling lies on here if something paints his special interest groups in a bad light and then he doesn't have the courage to respond when pulled up on said lies, some of which you yourself have thanked.

testaccount123 · 04-01-2018 05:18PM

FTA69 wrote: »

Have the Guards ruled out terrorism so?

They have the suspect pinned down to being an Egyptian

Professor Moriarty · 04-01-2018 05:20PM

FTA69 wrote: »

Have the Guards ruled out terrorism so?

So far, this is what they are saying: “At this time, we can find no established link to indicate that this tragedy is terrorist related”

Breaking: At least 1 man dead after stabbing rampage in Dundalk

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