Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread II

Rjd2 · 03-01-2018 08:17PM

Quin_Dub wrote: »

You make several valid points here.

The Democrats have not offered anything other than "Oh my god , look how awful Trump is" to date.

Both sides are guilty of appealing only to their base.

They need to stop talking about how bad the other side is and start explaining why they'd be better.

They also need a new face as a rallying point - Clinton, Schumer and Pelosi are not it.. They need to identify 2 or 3 potential candidates (under 50 years old) for 2020 and start pushing them out front to see who resonates best..

It will be Kamela Harris for 2020, whether the left of the party accept that is a different matter. The fear might be like France, the left tolerated Macron because the alternative Le Pen was far worse, however with her gone, there is a lot of anger there and no fascist to divert it to.

Beating Trump is the goal, but a wolf in sheep's clothing Harris could be vulnerable to a less toxic republican in 2024.

Leroy42 · 03-01-2018 08:17PM

Bannon's record of getting people elected his terrible. The one shining light (at it is a pretty amazing one) is Trump.

But I think with Trump they landed on a very special type of person, one was able to carry it off. There isn't that many of them around (SHS comes to mind!).

So Bannon may well be planning something in terms of hard right, but it won't get very far.

Rjd2 · 03-01-2018 08:27PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

Bannon's record of getting people elected his terrible. The one shining light (at it is a pretty amazing one) is Trump.

But I think with Trump they landed on a very special type of person, one was able to carry it off. There isn't that many of them around (SHS comes to mind!).

So Bannon may well be planning something in terms of hard right, but it won't get very far.

Bannon will learn the hard way that you can't replicate Trump.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/12/15/16774216/trumpism-is-dead-trumpism-never-existed

Worth a read that

SeamusFX · 03-01-2018 08:45PM

Noel82 wrote: »

I've gone on my gut since the start that Trump wouldn't have been acting the way he has if he had something big to hide.

That's where I totally disagree with you. That is the way Trump rolls. He's a habitual liar and whenever he gets caught, he Never owns up and tells the truth, he doubles down and tells even bigger lies. The man is a narcissistic egomaniac psycho and this is his modus operandi. Plus, enough dirt has already come out, that it's quite apparent he is as dirty as they come, plus, he always was dirty and always will be dirty. Don't use the standard rules you'd use to evaluate normal people when trying to interpret something Trump does.

Odhinn · 03-01-2018 09:38PM

SeamusFX wrote: »

That's where I totally disagree with you. That is the way Trump rolls. He's a habitual liar and whenever he gets caught, he Never owns up and tells the truth, he doubles down and tells even bigger lies. The man is a narcissistic egomaniac psycho and this is his modus operandi. Plus, enough dirt has already come out, that it's quite apparent he is as dirty as they come, plus, he always was dirty and always will be dirty. Don't use the standard rules you'd use to evaluate normal people when trying to interpret something Trump does.

His normal approach of aggressive counter-litigation is, thankfully, denied to him, it seems. However there may well be tools available to the presidency that he'll grasp at in ways unintended by their creators.

Beechwoodspark · 03-01-2018 09:42PM

I’ve said it many times but still I am amazed at how seasoned political operators decided to work for trump.

Trump fcuks over EVERYONE as and when it suits him. Self preservation and self aggrandisement is the name of the game for him.

Formerly smug Bannon is just the latest to be attacked and no doubt at some stage goons like Kushner will get it too.

Leroy42 · 03-01-2018 09:49PM

It will certainly be interesting to see how Brietbart handle this. A recent Trump Jr tweet seems to suggest that the comment section is fully behind his dad, and by extension, moving against Bannon (no idea how accurate it is, and I'm not going to spend time looking at it now).

But if one of the key architects of the movement can be so easily and distainfuly cast aside, you would need to question why anyone would want to go near Trump.

Going back to a previous point about the DNC, it simply backs up the thinking that any deal you do with Trump is only ever one sided and will be used against you should the need arise.

Tell me how · 03-01-2018 10:16PM

According to tweet from John Simpson, Rupert Murdoch is said to have called Trump a "f*cking idiot". Doesn't say if it was in referring to him or directly to him. I'd imagine the former.

Be interesting if this is picked up by U S media. Rupert wouldn't be a shrinking violet either I'd Donald cones out to play.

Thargor · 03-01-2018 10:21PM

Total lunatic:

Itssoeasy · 03-01-2018 10:27PM

Tell me how wrote: »

According to tweet from John Simpson, Rupert Murdoch is said to have called Trump a "f*cking idiot". Doesn't say if it was in referring to him or directly to him. I'd imagine the former.

Be interesting if this is picked up by U S media. Rupert wouldn't be a shrinking violet either I'd Donald cones out to play.

Interesting so that's two people alleged to have used less than parliamentary language about a sitting US President. I mean a Irish President resigned because a government minister of the day called him a "thundering disgrace" (although the rumour it was much more flowery than that) and Rupert Murdoch does still own Fox News, so it would be a brave on air talent to go against the boss.

Itssoeasy · 03-01-2018 10:32PM

Thargor wrote: »

Total lunatic:

:eek: Oh the honeymoon is over. But as always trump is downplaying another member of his white house to the role of Tea Boy.

Headshot · 03-01-2018 10:37PM

Thargor wrote: »

Total lunatic:

I had to google to see was this legit because I couldnt believe it.

Saw it on the Guardian and just shocked

Nody · 03-01-2018 10:46PM

Itssoeasy wrote: »

:eek: Oh the honeymoon is over. But as always trump is downplaying another member of his white house to the role of Tea Boy.

Except that was not written by Trump; to coherent.

Billy86 · 03-01-2018 10:49PM

"Often described as the most talented field of candidates ever" :pac: Got to still laugh at his deranged pathological lies from time to time - I've never heard anyone say anything even remotely like that, if anything the exact opposite.

I will say beyond the blithering lunacy and despite the fact it's utter bullsh** as per usual, the "rather than simply seeking to burn it all down" line is fairly funny, makes you wonder who wrote that one because it's WAY too subtle for Tweetin' Donald Trump.

The level of maity and dignity genuinely reminds me of this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxrWuE5qC5c&t=6s

Tell me how · 03-01-2018 10:50PM

Nody wrote:

Except that was not written by Trump; to coherent.

That's interesting if true.

Would somebody have transcribed it and tweaked the language?

If someone else drafted it how much did Trump review or guide before releasing.

Water John · 03-01-2018 10:52PM

Clearly, Trump knows he has to butter up GOP Members of Congress and Senate, as this is now obviously the only way, to prevent his impeachment.

Tell me how · 03-01-2018 10:57PM

Water John wrote:

Clearly, Trump knows he has to butter up GOP Members of Congress and Senate, as this is now obviously the only way, to prevent his impeachment.

Look at his other communications today. I don't think he has capacity to figure out how to placate congress.

It might be the purpose, but if so, someone else is devising it.

manual_man · 03-01-2018 11:04PM

Thargor wrote: »

Total lunatic:

Doesn't sound like it was written by Trump at all

aloyisious · 03-01-2018 11:13PM

Now would Steve be prepared to go before a committee or visit the special counsel and pull the roof in?

How many actual statements reading like the above [no mention of Don Trump by name] have come out in the past?

I hope Michael Wolfe recorded the interviews electronically to ensure he got the quotes etc correct in an undeniable way.

C14N · 03-01-2018 11:27PM

Igotadose wrote: »

Fivethirtyeight, however, polled like crazy through 2016 and though they called it close at the end, they like so many were misled. The midterms aren't in full swing yet, the dramas have been around special elections.

538 doesn't do polls, they just aggregate them, and their national 2016 polls were actually remarkably accurate (I think they had a 1% margin of error on the eventual result of the PV). They also were the only ones I saw who seriously talked about a PV/EC split being a non-negligible possibility. Like any probability though, you have to treat it cautiously. A 90% chance of Dems taking the House (as an example) is still a 10% chance that they won't.

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

I’ve said it many times but still I am amazed at how seasoned political operators decided to work for trump

He really did not get many people who were very valuable though. I mean if you look at his campaign, he had political novice Bannon. He had his neophyte kids. He had Rudy Giuliani who was kind of a bit nuts and outside the mainstream party. He had recently fired Michael Flynn. He had two extremely unpopular governors, Mike Pence and Chris Christie. Kasich was offered a position as VP and wanted nothing to do with him. Honestly, he just was not getting the best of the party by any means. Then even his cabinet was filled with lobbyists, fringe politicians and more neophytes. Tillerson, DeVos, Ben Carson, Sessions, Rick Perry. Pretty much nobody with anything to lose got onboard that ship.

Tell me how wrote: »

Would somebody have transcribed it and tweaked the language?

I would expect that it was just written by speechwriter and Santa Monica Fascist Stephen Miller. It sounds like his style of writing.

aloyisious · 03-01-2018 11:40PM

BBC2 Newsnight is interviewing two people, Raheem Kassam [Breitbart London] and Misa Mossbacher, Trump Team member about Fire and Fury, the statement and the relationship between Don and Steve. SHS at the W/H press briefing this evening covering the issue is included in the programme.

Harry Palmr · 03-01-2018 11:43PM

Why are so many of the Trump fan club scrawny middle-aged blondes with really horrid accents?

Billy86 · 03-01-2018 11:48PM

C14N wrote: »

I would expect that it was just written by speechwriter and Santa Monica Fascist Stephen Miller. It sounds like his style of writing.

:rolleyes: Fascist? Fascist? Sure why not go fully Godwin the thread by calling him a...

...oh f*** it.

Interesting if true though, wasn't Miller one of those people with a bit of a God complex around Bannon before Trump became the shiny new dog whistle openly racist statement?

Nody · 03-01-2018 11:53PM

This is how Trump would have written it; excerpts from his Arizona speech:

The crowds were so big, almost as big as tonight, that the people said right at the beginning, you know, there’s something special happening here. And we went to center stage almost from day one in the debates. We love those debates.

This evening, joined together with friends, we reaffirm our shared customs, traditions and values. We love our country. We celebrate our troops. We embrace our freedom. We respect our flag. We are proud of our history. We cherish our Constitution, including, by the way, the Second Amendment.

After our amazing election victory, the forgotten men and women — remember we used to talk about the forgotten men and women before the election? Guess what? They’re not forgotten…

Notice the constant use of short sentences and the rambling style. None of that is that release; I'd doubt Trump even saw it and no way in hell did he write it or dictate it. No rambling, no short sentences, sticking to the point; in short not Trump at all. Same way with the classy tweets every so often which once again are clearly not Trump but someone else.

Leroy42 · 04-01-2018 12:03AM

It really is an interesting dynamic.

There is no doubt that Trump owes quite a bit to Bannon for his victory, although Trump is correct in saying that Trump won it not Bannon. And as a reporter brought up in the press conf today, if Bannon had lost his mind when he lost his job, why did Trum stay in such close contact with him for months afterwards?

Has Trump forgotten that he does owe part of his base to Bannon and the likes or Brietbart?

And why, at the time at Bannon leaving the WH, did Trump not say that he fired him as he is now claiming. It was the whole "Bannon is leaving to fight from the outside" line.

Now, IMO, this will end up hurting Bannon far more than Trump. Firstly, as POTUS, Trump has the resources and people around him to fight on his side, I doubt too many people are going to go out to fight for Bannon. Second, Trump does seem to have a teflon ability, a bitch fight between them will not move any of his supporters away. Whomever it hurts, it has the real possibility to reducing the support that Trump has received from Brietbart in the past. I doubt it will disappear, but all it needs is for a slight change of emphasis, a slight change of tack for those current supporters to lose interest.

My reading of it is that Trump was badly burnt by the debacle of Moore and blames Bannon in large part. My understanding is that he was urged not to get involved, but my guess is that Bannon talked him into it as a great kick in the teeth for even the GOP party and it cement his power. Thus Bannon has probably been already cast aside and this his is way of fighting back.

Billy86 · 04-01-2018 12:04AM

Billy86 wrote: »

It's time for the Democrats to forget about compromise for exactly the reasons you've outlined. Maybe the odd one here or there for Collins or Murkowski etc where they've shown an actual willingness to do so. But in general? No, not a chance. Their only method is to be as divisive and stubborn as the Republicans at this point, the American public do not respond to anything else and as the saying goes, deserve the governance they get.

This is the tradesman turned politician challenging Paul Ryan, he's gained a decent bit of traction in a very winnable state while Ryan also has to contend with an open and proud racist (Bannon's guy, of course!) so may be robbed of the alt right fascist dog whistling, though I think the GOP will throw north of $500mn at that one seat if they have to. Their "golden boy" is looking in tatters after just one year in actual power, but they've unlimited corporate dollars and I doubt they'll want him losing that seat and what it would represent.

Anyway, just posting this here as a perfect example of the language that needs to be getting put out there far more against GOP members. For anyone wondering the bill was in 2017 and was going to put restrictions Trump's ability to wage war himself, both parties actually agreed to it, yet Ryan blocked it quietly for... some reason (e.g. his own personal gain with Trump).

https://twitter.com/IronStache/status/948359437097545728

Not high and mighty, not overly complex language, not any of that stuff... just "look what you did, f*ck you" somewhat done up... sadly, in America this is how elections are won.

Noel82 · 04-01-2018 12:20AM

Bannon absolutely damaged Breitbart. There was a time knowledgeable people were working there like Shapiro and others. Shapiro left because no Trump criticism was allowed and over the treatment of Michelle Fields. Since he left the WH it's become his own personal vlog page with headlines like " Bannon says this " " Bannon says that ". Trump is ruthless and the jig was up with the combination of the Alabama seat being lost and Bannons comments.

There's a hugely split opinion on Trump and Bannon in the comments - I think Trump has made a serious blunder tbh and regardless of what you think of Breitbart, it is a seriously powerful political tool for any Republican - more so than any other website in modern US Politics. Bannon instigated it most likely because Trump put Kushner and others over him in the WH.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/01/03/donald-trump-furious-steve-bannon-not-only-lost-his-job-he-lost-his-mind/

Tell me how · 04-01-2018 12:24AM

Billy86 wrote:

Interesting if true though, wasn't Miller one of those people with a bit of a God complex around Bannon before Trump became the shiny new dog whistle openly racist statement?

Miller previously said of Trump.

"He's the most gifted politician of our time and he's the best orator to hold the office in generations"

I wouldn't trust his radio.

Think it was someone like that who wrote the statement alright.

Billy86 · 04-01-2018 12:51AM

Noel82 wrote: »

Bannon absolutely damaged Breitbart. There was a time knowledgeable people were working there like Shapiro and others. Shapiro left because no Trump criticism was allowed and over the treatment of Michelle Fields. Since he left the WH it's become his own personal vlog page with headlines like " Bannon says this " " Bannon says that ". Trump is ruthless and the jig was up with the combination of the Alabama seat being lost and Bannons comments.

There's a hugely split opinion on Trump and Bannon in the comments - I think Trump has made a serious blunder tbh and regardless of what you think of Breitbart, it is a seriously powerful political tool for any Republican - more so than any other website in modern US Politics. Bannon instigated it most likely because Trump put Kushner and others over him in the WH.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/01/03/donald-trump-furious-steve-bannon-not-only-lost-his-job-he-lost-his-mind/

Don't visit it much at all so unsure of the goings on since they kicked the pedophile out, but Breitbart absolutely skyrocketed from relative obscurity to a well known media player under Bannon from 2012-2016. Can't stand the guy but he was a huge success there and did something Trump never could, which was build himself from the ground up.

By the way, still waiting on those claims of me calling Clinton a choirboy during 2016. I'd flat out call you a liar but the mods will card me for it, I'm unsure if they sanction people for lying or just decide to let it go with impunity, so I'd appreciate if you could back that up.

Actually on that note, you're talking about posts from 2016 and yet joined in July 2017... funny that you're a re-reg. Say... you've a hang up about 'fake news' and the mainstream media, right? :pac:

mcmoustache · 04-01-2018 01:03AM

Noel82 wrote: »

Bannon absolutely damaged Breitbart. There was a time knowledgeable people were working there like Shapiro and others. Shapiro left because no Trump criticism was allowed and over the treatment of Michelle Fields. Since he left the WH it's become his own personal vlog page with headlines like " Bannon says this " " Bannon says that ". Trump is ruthless and the jig was up with the combination of the Alabama seat being lost and Bannons comments.

There's a hugely split opinion on Trump and Bannon in the comments - I think Trump has made a serious blunder tbh and regardless of what you think of Breitbart, it is a seriously powerful political tool for any Republican - more so than any other website in modern US Politics. Bannon instigated it most likely because Trump put Kushner and others over him in the WH.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/01/03/donald-trump-furious-steve-bannon-not-only-lost-his-job-he-lost-his-mind/

This is interesting alright. The comments are very split. Do they go with their god-emperor or with the guy who cultivated them and turned them into a sizeable voting block? Hard to tell, really. Splitting them can only be a good thing, though.

The excerpts of Michael Wolff's book about his time in the White House are doing the rounds tonight. They're entertaining but should be taken with a pinch of salt. They're funny in a way but they're based on the accounts of different people and Trump doesn't exactly surround himself with honest people. Highlight available here.

More interestingly tonight, Rosenstein called a meeting with Ryan and Wray. Speculation is that it's about Devin Nunes as tonight is the deadline for DOJ to hand over docs due to his nonsensical subpoenas. Something else to add to the pile is that another individual, along with Flynn was unmasked last year.

Also, Trump disbanded the voter fraud commission. Strange night overall.

Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread II

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