Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread II

Doltanian · 03-01-2018 04:18AM

wes wrote: »

The Right in the US (and most rest of the world if I am being honest) is a complete and utter joke.

Whereas as the left are politically correct self-absorbed pontificating and self-righteous. Given a choice between the right and pathetic full meltdown mode leftwing I know who I’ll choose.

aloyisious · 03-01-2018 07:51AM

Is The Daily Beast a site which posts rumours as stories, or as stories worth checking out?

According to it Antony Scaramucci has been telling friends that Don and Ivanka want him back in the W/House. Scaramucci himself is quoted by TDB as saying he didn't say that, and that the stories are not true. In the article, W/House staffers told the TDB it was the first they heard of it.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/anthony-scaramucci-is-telling-pals-that-donald-trump-wants-him-back

Peregrinus · 03-01-2018 08:20AM

aloyisious wrote: »

Is The Daily Beast a site which posts rumours as stories, or as stories worth checking out?

They cheerfully publish gossip and rumours, but when they do they generally identify them as such.

In this case, DB is not saying that Don and Ivanka want Scaramucci back. They are saying that Scaramucci is telling people that Don and Ivanka want him back. DB says that they have heard from three different people that Scaramucci is saying this to them.

aloyisious wrote: »

According to it Antony Scaramucci has been telling friends that Don and Ivanka want him back in the W/House. Scaramucci himself is quoted by TDB as saying he didn't say that, and that the stories are not true.

Well, he would say that, wouldn't he?

aloyisious wrote: »

In the article, W/House staffers told the TDB it was the first they heard of it.

Which could well be true, even if the DB story is correct.

Manach · 03-01-2018 09:04AM

My understanding was the Mr Scaramucci was perceived not to have made much positive impact and his departure was a positive step.

Peregrinus · 03-01-2018 09:09AM

Manach wrote: »

My understanding was the Mr Scaramucci was perceived not to have made much positive impact and his departure was a positive step.

That was also my understanding. And of course it was the understanding of John F. Kelly, the WH Chief of Staff, whose first act upon appointment was to fire Scaramucci.

It may not, however, be Mr Scaramucci's understanding.

Igotadose · 03-01-2018 10:51AM

fivethirtyeight. com's looking at the polls and starting to score the 2018 midterm races. It's not looking good for the GOP. Dáiríre!

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-democrats-wave-could-turn-into-a-flood/

It's a long time before the midterms. Personally not seeing Marsha Blackburn get into the senate would count as a victory. What an awful politician, might as well stand out there and say "Fossil fuel companies told me to say: ...."

mcmoustache · 03-01-2018 11:03AM

Doltanian wrote: »

Whereas as the left are politically correct self-absorbed pontificating and self-righteous. Given a choice between the right and pathetic full meltdown mode leftwing I know who I’ll choose.

Yes, librul tears must be the top priority. To hell with everything else.

Tell me how · 03-01-2018 11:08AM

Igotadose wrote: »

fivethirtyeight. com's looking at the polls and starting to score the 2018 midterm races. It's not looking good for the GOP. Dáiríre!

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-democrats-wave-could-turn-into-a-flood/

It's a long time before the midterms. Personally not seeing Marsha Blackburn get into the senate would count as a victory. What an awful politician, might as well stand out there and say "Fossil fuel companies told me to say: ...."

The headline in that article is "The Democrats’ Wave Could Turn Into A Flood". I wonder how much in the mind of those polled right now is the experience of Donald Trump in the White House and so this is a reaction to that.

If so, doesn't it show the folly of American Politics in that it is influenced so much by reactionary swings. Maybe you could say that applies to more countries than just the US of course.

I have been very disappointed with the behaviour of the democrats since Hillary was defeated. It emerged how much of a mess the party was in in that there was collusion to get her the nomination. Since then, she is still hanging around somewhat on her book tour and moral guidance seems only to come from Sanders and he is 20 years too old for making a significant impact. Nancy Pelois also I feel is at the latter end of her career.

I was disappointed after the last election that a cohort of new, younger senators and representatives didn't come out and say that the party bore a significant responsibility for Trump winning and here is how it was going to change things.

It's very easy to stand up and say Trump is a disaster but I wouldn't put it past the GOP to say the same thing, depending on how Mueller gets on and the Democrats could be left on the outside still.

Igotadose · 03-01-2018 11:20AM

Tell me how wrote: »

The headline in that article is "The Democrats’ Wave Could Turn Into A Flood". I wonder how much in the mind of those polled right now is the experience of Donald Trump in the White House and so this is a reaction to that.

Fivethirtyeight includes historic data - how the first midterms go based on Presidential popularity. Since Trump is historically unpopular, the math doesn't look good. They've posited things like: "And while the CNN poll is a bit of an outlier, the Democratic advantage in the FiveThirtyEight generic ballot aggregate is up to about 12 points, 49.6 percent to 37.4 percent. That average, like the CNN poll, also shows Republicans in worse shape right now than any other majority party at this point in the midterm cycle since at least the 1938 election."

Fivethirtyeight, however, polled like crazy through 2016 and though they called it close at the end, they like so many were misled. The midterms aren't in full swing yet, the dramas have been around special elections. And, the media are doing well fueling the drama through incessant coverage. Trump orchestrates this via twitter and incomprehensible speeches, every day it's 'what's going to happen next?' It feels like living through an episode of bad reality TV.

Plus, even with the massive distractions, things are happening in Washington via Congress and the WH. "Elections have consequences." https://medium.com/@Amy_Siskind/week-59-experts-in-authoritarianism-advise-to-keep-a-list-of-things-subtly-changing-around-you-so-cb6ff326e3b1

The medium dot com link is a good one to visit each week as the owner updates it every week with "Trump news"

Professor Moriarty · 03-01-2018 11:28AM

Doltanian wrote: »

Whereas as the left are politically correct self-absorbed pontificating and self-righteous. Given a choice between the right and pathetic full meltdown mode leftwing I know who I’ll choose.

I'd choose the centre myself.

Billy86 · 03-01-2018 11:46AM

From that medium.com link: "The Tennessean reported on a new policy which expressly prohibits “hand-carried signs and signs on hand sticks” at the new home of the state legislature, calling them a safety hazard. Guns, however, are allowed."

Needless to say our 'free speech' brigade will be all over this.... Oh no wait they won't, since they never gave a sh** about "free speech" in the first place.

Tell me how · 03-01-2018 11:59AM

Billy86 wrote: »

From that medium.com link: "The Tennessean reported on a new policy which expressly prohibits “hand-carried signs and signs on hand sticks” at the new home of the state legislature, calling them a safety hazard. Guns, however, are allowed."

Needless to say our 'free speech' brigade will be all over this.... Oh no wait they won't, since they never gave a sh** about "free speech" in the first place.

It remains to be seen how this will be enforced. Such a policy already exists in the state Capitol but does not seem to have been enforced as signs have been seen in use.

Also, protesters can still wear signs as the ban refers to hand held signs.
It is laughable. And sad.

Professor Moriarty · 03-01-2018 12:29PM

Billy86 wrote: »

From that medium.com link: "The Tennessean reported on a new policy which expressly prohibits “hand-carried signs and signs on hand sticks” at the new home of the state legislature, calling them a safety hazard. Guns, however, are allowed."

Needless to say our 'free speech' brigade will be all over this.... Oh no wait they won't, since they never gave a sh** about "free speech" in the first place.

So you can shoot a person but you can't hit them over the head with a sign. Brilliant.

Quin_Dub · 03-01-2018 12:42PM

Tell me how wrote: »

The headline in that article is "The Democrats’ Wave Could Turn Into A Flood". I wonder how much in the mind of those polled right now is the experience of Donald Trump in the White House and so this is a reaction to that.

If so, doesn't it show the folly of American Politics in that it is influenced so much by reactionary swings. Maybe you could say that applies to more countries than just the US of course.

I have been very disappointed with the behaviour of the democrats since Hillary was defeated. It emerged how much of a mess the party was in in that there was collusion to get her the nomination. Since then, she is still hanging around somewhat on her book tour and moral guidance seems only to come from Sanders and he is 20 years too old for making a significant impact. Nancy Pelois also I feel is at the latter end of her career.

I was disappointed after the last election that a cohort of new, younger senators and representatives didn't come out and say that the party bore a significant responsibility for Trump winning and here is how it was going to change things.

It's very easy to stand up and say Trump is a disaster but I wouldn't put it past the GOP to say the same thing, depending on how Mueller gets on and the Democrats could be left on the outside still.

You make several valid points here.

The Democrats have not offered anything other than "Oh my god , look how awful Trump is" to date.

Both sides are guilty of appealing only to their base.

They need to stop talking about how bad the other side is and start explaining why they'd be better.

They also need a new face as a rallying point - Clinton, Schumer and Pelosi are not it.. They need to identify 2 or 3 potential candidates (under 50 years old) for 2020 and start pushing them out front to see who resonates best..

PopePalpatine · 03-01-2018 01:10PM

Billy86 wrote: »

From that medium.com link: "The Tennessean reported on a new policy which expressly prohibits “hand-carried signs and signs on hand sticks” at the new home of the state legislature, calling them a safety hazard. Guns, however, are allowed."

Needless to say our 'free speech' brigade will be all over this.... Oh no wait they won't, since they never gave a sh** about "free speech" in the first place.

Oh, they'll be all over it...just with their hands down their pants, celebrating. Shure don't you know that freedom of expression for anyone to the left of General Franco has contributed to the increasing degeneracy in the West?

Billy86 · 03-01-2018 01:11PM

Doltanian wrote: »

I don't see Trump talking any responsibility for aviation safety, He used a full stop between sentences. I think he has had a wonderful year in so many different aspects and from speaking to American's and reading simple economic facts it is obvious the man is doing a great job, if he isn't growing the economy, then he is fighting Islamic terror or tearing up bureaucracy and cutting down waste and bloat in the govt spending.

Yawn please try harder, like giving us specifics. "Trump has dine bigot good on all the excellent things" doesn't scare ll tell us anything, I could say the same for bosco.

I will credit him for not rocking the boat Obama built regarding the economy though, on stocks at least though the USD is down 13-14c from where it was a year ago.

Please let us know specifics of what you're talking about, thanks.

Billy86 · 03-01-2018 01:24PM

Quin_Dub wrote: »

You make several valid points here.

The Democrats have not offered anything other than "Oh my god , look how awful Trump is" to date.

Both sides are guilty of appealing only to their base.

They need to stop talking about how bad the other side is and start explaining why they'd be better.

They also need a new face as a rallying point - Clinton, Schumer and Pelosi are not it.. They need to identify 2 or 3 potential candidates (under 50 years old) for 2020 and start pushing them out front to see who resonates best..

While this is true, the sad truth about the American electorate is that that is exactly how the Republicans got to have the most power from top to bottom that any party has enjoyed for 90 years I think it is. I'm not sure basically, this might actually represent the best method in a country where so, so many don't seem to even remotely identify with that they stand for, but rather what they stand against.

Leroy42 · 03-01-2018 01:36PM

I also think that the liberals/left wing or whatever you call them need to be better at elections.

Base members of the GOP/Trump will basically accept anything once some part of what they want is given, or moreso that the left don't get in.

DNC etc seem to want to talk about the right way, compromise, listen and understand. They are then beaten by ideology which doesn't care about listening, facts or compromise.

Take the fundamentalist christian right. They spouted for years about morals etc yet are more than happy to embrace Trump, with all his baggage, on the basis that it is better than a lefty getting in.

HC won more of the popular vote, the polls all show that DNC should have a shot at winning in most areas. Yet what we will see is this cry from people that the DNC need to stand for something rather than simply against.

But the GOP has run on 'against Obama' for 8 years and look how that ended up.

Look at the recent DACA deal that Pelosi and Schumer thought they had made with Trump. All about compromise. But the GOP & Trump are not interested in this, only that others should compromise to their way.

In normal times, simply saying what you are against is not enough. But Trump and the GOP are so clearly unfit for office that there really is nothing else to talk about. Every American must be asked, and ask themselves, just where they see their country going.

Billy86 · 03-01-2018 01:47PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

Look at the recent DACA deal that Pelosi and Schumer thought they had made with Trump. All about compromise. But the GOP & Trump are not interested in this, only that others should compromise to their way.

Which has ridiculously consistently been the way since Reagan, which is why it's frankly funny listening to the right wingers bitching and moaning about "liberal leftie modern blah" in a US context, when both parties have been consistently moving to the right for over 30 years.

It's time for the Democrats to forget about compromise for exactly the reasons you've outlined. Maybe the odd one here or there for Collins or Murkowski etc where they've shown an actual willingness to do so. But in general? No, not a chance. Their only method is to be as divisive and stubborn as the Republicans at this point, the American public do not respond to anything else and as the saying goes, deserve the governance they get.

Fool me once... well we're honestly on about "fool me 4,000 times" by now, through the years.

jooksavage · 03-01-2018 03:39PM

Looks like Steve Bannon has some choice words for the Russian meeting in Trump Tower: "treasonous", "unpatriotic", "bad sh*t". Although I'm not sure he'd be describing it in those terms if Jared Kushner hadn't attended.

Billy86 · 03-01-2018 03:44PM

It's an interesting turn, we know Bannon is not so much driven by his personal agenda above all else, as he is driven by it to the extent that 'all else' doesn't really exist with him. I'd be curious and somewhat cautious as to why he is using those words, because it's got to have been quite close to impossible for them to keep him out of the loop for so long with how influential his position was seen to be.

Billy86 · 03-01-2018 05:22PM

so, it turns out the FBI may have infiltrated the Trump campaign as early as July 2016 as per Fusion GPS who want their entire closed doors senate committee meeting to be made public. Again... would love to know the Free Speech Brigade's opinion on that one.

This is not in reference to Papadopolous, who was only caught lying to the FBI in July which was a good 7-8 months after the dossier out in the open and the formal investigation of course, long underway.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/01/fusion-gps-founders-push-back-against-russian-conspiracy-theories-about-the-russia-dossier-in-new-york-times-op-ed.html

But Glenn R. Simpson and Peter Fritsch, Fusion GPS’ founders, argued that their claims alone were not what underpinned the Mueller investigation:

"We don’t believe the Steele dossier was the trigger for the F.B.I.’s investigation into Russian meddling. As we told the Senate Judiciary Committee in August, our sources said the dossier was taken so seriously because it corroborated reports the bureau had received from other sources, including one inside the Trump camp.

The intelligence committees have known for months that credible allegations of collusion between the Trump camp and Russia were pouring in from independent sources during the campaign. Yet lawmakers in the thrall of the president continue to wage a cynical campaign to portray us as the unwitting victims of Kremlin disinformation."

Thargor · 03-01-2018 06:05PM

That Bannon stuff is pretty explosive:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/03/donald-trump-russia-steve-bannon-michael-wolff?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_reddit_is_fun

The meeting was revealed by the New York Times in July last year, prompting Trump Jr to say no consequential material was produced. Soon after, Wolff writes, Bannon remarked mockingly: “The three senior guys in the campaign thought it was a good idea to meet with a foreign government inside Trump Tower in the conference room on the 25th floor – with no lawyers. They didn’t have any lawyers.

“Even if you thought that this was not treasonous, or unpatriotic, or bad ****, and I happen to think it’s all of that, you should have called the FBI immediately.”

froog · 03-01-2018 06:17PM

hmm, as if bannon isn't neck deep in all this. he was trump's right hand man ffs.

StringerBell · 03-01-2018 06:20PM

Really interested in Bannons motivation here. There is definitely a reason for his words, I assume we will find out what that is soon enough.

Leroy42 · 03-01-2018 07:45PM

froog wrote: »

hmm, as if bannon isn't neck deep in all this. he was trump's right hand man ffs.

Totally wrong. According to Trump today

When he was fired, he not only lost his job, he lost his mind," Trump said of Bannon, who left the White House in August. "Steve was rarely in a one-on-one meeting with me and only pretends to have had influence to fool a few people with no access and no clue, whom he helped write phony books."

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/01/03/steve-bannon-trump-conflict-322278

Trump really needs to do something about all these hangers on he has to endure. Papadopoulos, Flynn, Manafort, Bannon, Paige. Trump just wants a friend a these people are just using him to get a book deal

Billy86 · 03-01-2018 07:48PM

froog wrote: »

hmm, as if bannon isn't neck deep in all this. he was trump's right hand man ffs.

It's funny alright, that he's kept completely quiet on this until right now. You'd have to wonder what he knows about this that we don't, because while he's tough to predict and knows how to work an angle, it does look a good bit like seeing the writing on the wall and now trying to cause damage limitation.

Or it could be jilted ex lover syndrome. Or something else...

Leroy42 wrote: »

Trump really needs to do something about all these hangers on he has to endure. Papadopoulos, Flynn, Manafort, Bannon, Paige

You forgot Trump Jr, we're surely less than 12 months off hearing Snr hear how he's never met his son who ran his business and grew up in the same house as him.

edit: Also a good one from Bannon for the "Manafort? Nothingburger here folks, only taxes!" head in sand bridage - “You realise where this is going,” he is quoted as saying. “This is all about money laundering. Mueller chose [senior prosecutor Andrew] Weissmann first and he is a money-laundering guy. Their path to ****ing Trump goes right through Paul Manafort, Don Jr and Jared Kushner … It’s as plain as a hair on your face.”

Itssoeasy · 03-01-2018 08:08PM

Do we know why Steve bannon has just done a 180 ?

Rjd2 · 03-01-2018 08:11PM

StringerBell wrote: »

Really interested in Bannons motivation here. There is definitely a reason for his words, I assume we will find out what that is soon enough.

No need to overthink it. Bannon has a massive ego who genuinely believes he got Trump elected by himself. He has failed in all other high profile political targets,e.g in replacing Ryan and more recently lost the safest Republican seat in the land. Trump has likely cut him off as he feels Bannon is a loser. Trump doesn't do loyalty and most certainly does not tolerate failure.

Trumps son has had a go at Bannon also.

https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/948625872914931712

Nody · 03-01-2018 08:14PM

Billy86 wrote: »

It's funny alright, that he's kept completely quiet on this until right now. You'd have to wonder what he knows about this that we don't, because while he's tough to predict and knows how to work an angle, it does look a good bit like seeing the writing on the wall and now trying to cause damage limitation.

I'm starting to wonder if he's preparing to set up a right of Trump platform for an alternative president (be it to go against Trump or as he stated before the more likely case of Trump being impeached before next election and hence going against Pence). This would also be in line with his promise to put tea party alternative candidates against all republicans not supporting his policy and trying to become a king maker so to speak.

Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread II

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