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Bitcoin is slow and expensive... why popular still?

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  • 03-01-2018 4:06pm
    #1
    jon1981
    Registered Users Posts: 4,359 ✭✭✭


    Just a thought, I see alot of complaints about BTC being slow and costly when there are alternatives that address speed and cost.

    I don't have an answer, but why is it still number 1? Is it purely first mover advantage? I've done a few trades in Eth, LTC & BTC and by far the worst experience in time and money was BTC.

    So I'm confused, why is it #1?

    I know I'm picking 2 very basic metrics as evaluation (time and cost) but even on the tech side, how much of advantage is the tech?


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    #2
    Matt Simis
    Registered Users Posts: 8,718 ✭✭✭Matt Simis


    Hmm... youve done some trades? They point of these things (most of them) is to used as a currency, not trades on exchanges. Buy something with BTC and you will find it slow and expensive.. but you will actually find merchants. That's why its still popular. That and a ****-ton of money already invested in its value and infrastructure.


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    #3
    jon1981
    Registered Users Posts: 4,359 ✭✭✭jon1981


    Matt Simis wrote: »
    Hmm... youve done some trades? They point of these things (most of them) is to used as a currency, not traded.

    By trade, I meant buying other crypto through BTC.
    Matt Simis wrote: »
    but you will actually find merchants. Thats why its still popular. That and a ****-ton of money already invested in its value and infrastructure.

    ok so really it's first mover advantage? I think it can be argued there is better and faster tech around now?


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    #4
    Blacktie.
    Registered Users Posts: 2,903 ✭✭✭Blacktie.


    Matt Simis wrote:
    Hmm... youve done some trades? They point of these things (most of them) is to used as a currency, not trades on exchanges. Buy something with BTC and you will find it slow and expensive.. but you will actually find merchants. That's why its still popular. That and a ****-ton of money already invested in its value and infrastructure.

    You seriously think bitcoin is expensive because some merchants use it? You have to go fairly far out of your way to find someone who uses it that way tbh.


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    #5
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,776 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    Has the most press, giving it the biggest optics. It's, by far, the most common trading pair for any other crypto.

    More people are likely to have heard of Bitcoin than all the others coins put together


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    #6
    ZeroThreat
    Registered Users Posts: 2,180 ✭✭✭ZeroThreat


    jon1981 wrote: »
    Just a thought, I see alot of complaints about BTC being slow and costly when there are alternatives that address speed and cost.

    I don't have an answer, but why is it still number 1? Is it purely first mover advantage? I've done a few trades in Eth, LTC & BTC and by far the worst experience in time and money was BTC.

    So I'm confused, why is it #1?

    I know I'm picking 2 very basic metrics as evaluation (time and cost) but even on the tech side, how much of advantage is the tech?

    well over on askaboutmoney.com, the site owner is running a thread encouraging people to place bets with paddy power that bitcoin will have crashed by Jan 2019, citing it as basically 'free money', so convinced is he that bitcoin is on the way to zero.

    Oddly enough someone mentioned that other cryptocurrencies existed besides BTC and this self-proclaimed 'finance expert' wasn't even aware of this..


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    #7
    jon1981
    Registered Users Posts: 4,359 ✭✭✭jon1981


    ZeroThreat wrote: »
    well over on askaboutmoney.com, the site owner is running a thread encouraging people to place bets with paddy power that bitcoin will have crashed by Jan 2019, citing it as basically 'free money', so convinced is he that bitcoin is on the way to zero.

    Oddly enough someone mentioned that other cryptocurrencies existed besides BTC and this self-proclaimed 'finance expert' wasn't even aware of this..

    Yeah I've read his posts, he's opinion is pretty shallow but to be fair I think his understanding of the Crypto space is more common than not. Alot of people still struggle to get their head around it.


    There is one question I have, What impact can owners with large amounts of an asset have if they dump? For example the Ripple CEO has 17%. If he dumped that overnight, everyone would follow.

    Same for all the other assets, how can we see they can't be manipulated?


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    #8
    sunrainmooncl
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 72 ✭✭sunrainmooncl


    jon1981 wrote: »
    Yeah I've read his posts, he's opinion is pretty shallow but to be fair I think his understanding of the Crypto space is more common than not. Alot of people still struggle to get their head around it.


    There is one question I have, What impact can owners with large amounts of an asset have if they dump? For example the Ripple CEO has 17%. If he dumped that overnight, everyone would follow.

    Same for all the other assets, how can we see they can't be manipulated?

    Didn't Ripple stop another cofounder dumping all his?

    Bitcoin is slow and expensive but it is also a lot more tested than other coins. XRP seems to be on the way to the #1 spot at the moent


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    #9
    amacca
    Registered Users Posts: 6,755 ✭✭✭amacca


    jon1981 wrote: »
    There is one question I have, What impact can owners with large amounts of an asset have if they dump? For example the Ripple CEO has 17%. If he dumped that overnight, everyone would follow.

    Same for all the other assets, how can we see they can't be manipulated?

    You can't...as you say they could easily be manipulated just the same as any other assets like stocks etc...I'm sure many pump n dumps, tape painting etc have already been carried out and will be in the future mainly with dog**** coins presumably...although perhaps its also the case with some of the better known cryptocurrencies...........futures trading on cryptocurrencies would really worry me given the large amounts of money thats poured into some cryptocurrencies and the massive appreciation in value some of them have experienced......it would be nice to see just who is taking bets on what...and not the kind of bets you place in a bookies.

    Also I would think it would be easier to consider executing such schemes with cryptocurrencies if I was that kind of guy given there is less regulation and presumably legal consequences

    (+the current popularity of cryptos and the fever/hype means you could rope in a lot of novices/get rich quick merchants)

    In the case of someone holding a lot of a cryptocurrency I suppose its not really in their best interests to dump it all immediately....much more profitable to have the price appreciate and let it go in tranches that won't affect the price of the asset to badly....... unless of course they were incentivised by greater profit elsewhere if they did dump it all..... or a malicious actor had a hand in things.


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    #10
    Matt Simis
    Registered Users Posts: 8,718 ✭✭✭Matt Simis


    Blacktie. wrote: »
    You seriously think bitcoin is expensive because some merchants use it? You have to go fairly far out of your way to find someone who uses it that way tbh.

    No I don't..?
    Your second sentence indirectly backs my point.. you would have to go out of your way (though fairly out of the way is all relative) to find a merchant accepting it.. but you have virtually no hope of success with any other cryptocurrency at the moment. That awareness and some usage and lots of money is my point, had you understood it the first time around.


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    #11
    Blacktie.
    Registered Users Posts: 2,903 ✭✭✭Blacktie.


    Matt Simis wrote:
    No I don't..? Your second sentence indirectly backs my point.. you would have to go out of your way (though fairly out of the way is all relative) to find a merchant accepting it.. but you have virtually no hope of success with any other cryptocurrency at the moment. That awareness and some usage and lots of money is my point, had you understood it the first time around.

    I'd say you have basically the same chance of finding all top 5 coins. Which is practically zero anyway. People aren't buying it for this use at all.


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    #12
    Matt Simis
    Registered Users Posts: 8,718 ✭✭✭Matt Simis


    Blacktie. wrote: »
    I'd say you have basically the same chance of finding all top 5 coins. Which is practically zero anyway. People aren't buying it for this use at all.
    I wouldnt.
    I used Bitcoin loads of times on Steam (I know they have removed it last month tho, but it was there for ages). I used it on Shipitto (US Parcel forwarder), Ive used it on some no name places I cant recall (via Bitpay), its on Overstock.com and I see horses and cars and property for sale with it. As much as I would prefer some of the other crypto's for this purpose, they are not there yet.

    So I will have to disagree based on experience. Besides, instead of sniping at me, go hypothesise back to the OP!


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    #13
    Shauny2010
    Closed Accounts Posts: 657 ✭✭✭Shauny2010


    No Alt coin has been tested or subjected to the amount of hacks as Bitcoin. The Bitcoin network is constantly under attack, everything from
    • Eavesdropping.
    • Timejacking attacks
    • Data Modification.
    • Identity Spoofing (IP Address Spoofing)
    • Password-Based Attacks.
    • Denial-of-Service Attack. ...
    • Man-in-the-Middle Attack. ...
    • Compromised-Key Attack.
    • Sniffer Attacks
    • Sybil attack
    • Packet sniffing
    I'm sure theres more but all of which have failed. Security Vulnerabilities and bugs have 9 years of testing.


    Every single Altcoin has nowhere near the same time tested resilience as Bitcoin. They are untested and extreamly vulnerable. Just wait for some of the new altcoins have severe bugs raise up or even lose your funds!



    As for slow transaction times and costs, these are really only trivial in the whole scheme of Bitcoin which will get a solution when the time is right


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    #14
    ZeroThreat
    Registered Users Posts: 2,180 ✭✭✭ZeroThreat


    Shauny2010 wrote: »
    No Alt coin has been tested or subjected to the amount of hacks as Bitcoin. The Bitcoin network is constantly under attack, everything from
    • Eavesdropping.
    • Timejacking attacks
    • Data Modification.
    • Identity Spoofing (IP Address Spoofing)
    • Password-Based Attacks.
    • Denial-of-Service Attack. ...
    • Man-in-the-Middle Attack. ...
    • Compromised-Key Attack.
    • Sniffer Attacks
    • Sybil attack
    • Packet sniffing
    I'm sure theres more but all of which have failed. Security Vulnerabilities and bugs have 9 years of testing.


    Every single Altcoin has nowhere near the same time tested resilience as Bitcoin. They are untested and extreamly vulnerable. Just wait for some of the new altcoins have severe bugs raise up or even lose your funds!



    As for slow transaction times and costs, these are really only trivial in the whole scheme of Bitcoin which will get a solution when the time is right

    Well, at the end of the day my own strategy is getting into most of the alts for the high multipliers, then once certain targets are met to exchange back into bitcoin to build up my stash.

    The only thing I wonder about - If bitcoin has the best and largest dev team, why is it proving so difficult to address the scalability and transaction issues?


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    #15
    ZeroThreat
    Registered Users Posts: 2,180 ✭✭✭ZeroThreat


    jon1981 wrote: »
    Yeah I've read his posts, he's opinion is pretty shallow but to be fair I think his understanding of the Crypto space is more common than not. Alot of people still struggle to get their head around it.


    There is one question I have, What impact can owners with large amounts of an asset have if they dump? For example the Ripple CEO has 17%. If he dumped that overnight, everyone would follow.

    Same for all the other assets, how can we see they can't be manipulated?

    That's true, Burgess is firmly part of the banking & finance establishment (and a chartered accountant), and feted by the Montrose millionaires.
    He probably hopes to get more appearance fees as they wheel him out numerous times in the near future as a 'bitcoin expert' each time there's some sort of correction or bull run.

    I guess he won't be urging people to go 'fill their shoes' with cryptos like he advised about Irish bank shares a decade ago....


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    #16
    Shauny2010
    Closed Accounts Posts: 657 ✭✭✭Shauny2010


    ZeroThreat wrote: »
    Well, at the end of the day my own strategy is getting into most of the alts for the high multipliers, then once certain targets are met to exchange back into bitcoin to build up my stash.

    The only thing I wonder about - If bitcoin has the best and largest dev team, why is it proving so difficult to address the scalability and transaction issues?
    Sounds like a good plan. You are using bitcoin as a store of wealth.
    Its a store of wealth because its trusted. Its this use case as a store of wealth which has hindered the scalability and transaction costs. But at the end of the day most people feel safer in bitcoin, hence the higher transaction cost.
    I think we will see another rush to bitcoin when people like yourself start to lock in profits from the Alts. Just remember the sell off will happen quickly and the Alt/Bitcoin pair will move even faster, and before you see a drop in the dollar value of the alts


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