The slow death of forums see OP for Admin warning and update 28/02/18

keith_sixteen · 31-12-2017 05:54PM

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

Not the person that feels locked out but the users of the forum.

Agreed. Just with the caveat that the mods are also users of the forum. Works in many cases, not in this one.

El Caballo · 31-12-2017 07:39PM

The problem with forums is that nobody wants discussion these days, they just want to be right and that's it. Forums across the board tend to be dominated by the vocal few and tend to just cycle over the same point again and again in argumentative style and blatant disregard for others opinions. It kills discussion and only leads to frustration on every ones behalf.

I also think the thanks system plays a part in this as it reinforces cliques and pulls on users egos as some sort of validation and confirmatipn bias which further stunts any reasonable and progressive debate. I can see use for this feature on other sites but with the format of boards and lack of effect on where posts are seen, I do not see it as beneficial here and probably detrimental in a lot of ways. There should be no place for hierarchy in discussion, the content should be allowed to speak for itself imo. Imagine having a reasoned discussion in the pub with someone and 10 people stand there cheering on one persons points, it would completely change the dynamic.

Places like this should be about everyone gaining a better perspective and moving forward, not one mans quest for internet points. Sadly, the reason I think boards is declining is because that community aspect has been lost. I don't post in AH much but just my view from trawling through more specialised forums on here.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 31-12-2017 07:49PM

El Caballo wrote: »

The problem with forums is that nobody wants discussion these days, they just want to be right and that's it. Forums across the board tend to be dominated by the vocal few and tend to just cycle over the same point again and again in argumentative style and blatant disregard for others opinions. It kills discussion and only leads to frustration on every ones behalf.

I also think the thanks system plays a part in this as it reinforces cliques and pulls on users egos as some sort of validation and confirmatipn bias which further stunts any reasonable and progressive debate. I can see use for this feature on other sites but with the format of boards and lack of effect on where posts are seen, I do not see it as beneficial here and probably detrimental in a lot of ways. There should be no place for hierarchy in discussion, the content should be allowed to speak for itself imo. Imagine having a reasoned discussion in the pub with someone and 10 people stand there cheering on one persons points, it would completely change the dynamic.

Places like this should be about everyone gaining a better perspective and moving forward, not one mans quest for internet points. Sadly, the reason I think boards is declining is because that community aspect has been lost. I don't post in AH much but just my view from trawling through more specialised forums on here.

You have summed up most of the problems. A new poster would run a mile from most of the 'discussions' in AH. The more specialised forums, like Motors, Angling, Nature, Gardening etc., are all more tolerant and allow a new poster to find their feet without any intimidation. They also are inclined to have each participant making their point and going with the discussion rather than people ranting against anybody who happens to disagree with them. The moderation on those forums is quoted muted as a result.

OldMrBrennan83 · 31-12-2017 07:52PM

This post has been deleted.

Tell me how · 31-12-2017 07:57PM

Patww79 wrote:

This post has been deleted.

Like any environment, new members need to be aware of walking in to a conversation and treat it with a bit of respect as they find their feet.

I've seen new posters in threads make dramatic, overly opinionated statements very quickly once they join a discussion. This looks like a loudmouth bursting in to a room demanding they be listened to. Of course they're going to get a frosty welcome.

Stheno · 31-12-2017 07:58PM

Beasty wrote: »

I would add though that there are certain forums including the ones covering popular team sports where team rivalry can result in quite a lot of friction resulting in mod actions. That is down to the posters rather than the mods though (unless the mods themselves are getting involved in the tribalism but I'm not aware of any current Sports mods who would do that)

This is an issue in Rugby especially around derbies and the 6n threads end up completely derailed.

Outside of that I like the rugby forum I've learned loads from it and never feel ridiculed if I ask a basic question there.

They could probably do with double the mods at times though

OldMrBrennan83 · 31-12-2017 08:00PM

This post has been deleted.

job seeker · 31-12-2017 08:06PM

Zoey Famous Aftershave wrote: »

You have summed up most of the problems. A new poster would run a mile from most of the 'discussions' in AH. The more specialised forums, like Motors, Angling, Nature, Gardening etc., are all more tolerant and allow a new poster to find their feet without any intimidation. They also are inclined to have each participant making their point and going with the discussion rather than people ranting against anybody who happens to disagree with them. The moderation on those forums is quoted muted as a result.

Completely agree with what you've said!

I mostly use the motors forum and I find that it's fantastic! I have learned so much from the other members since joining first and still learning loads! Not only in terms of D.I.Y. But also, in aspects of buying/selling, fuel, production/new releases, detailing, modifications and even the legal aspects/rules of the road. Although, while I am still a noob, I don't have much too offer others. Although, anything that I do know, I try my best t share!

Any questions I've ever had, everyone has done their best to help me out! From boards I have joined a motor FB group. Which has enabled me to become friends with members! But I do think that the car community, has that effect of bringing people together, to share their passion of cars.

Finally, without trying to sound like the teachers pet, I do genuinely think that the Mods in the motors forum do a great job. I find them complacently fair and I also think that they have everyone's best interest in mind!

Just what I have found.

31-12-2017 09:09PM

El Caballo wrote: »

The problem with forums is that nobody wants discussion these days, they just want to be right and that's it. Forums across the board tend to be dominated by the vocal few and tend to just cycle over the same point again and again in argumentative style and blatant disregard for others opinions. It kills discussion and only leads to frustration on every ones behalf.

Places like this should be about everyone gaining a better perspective and moving forward, not one mans quest for internet points. Sadly, the reason I think boards is declining is because that community aspect has been lost. I don't post in AH much but just my view from trawling through more specialised forums on here.

The "want" to be "right" for certain users is strong not only on boards.ie but other forums also - but you see it AH all the time- pages of bickering between just a few posters, long off topic, thread going nowhere- there should be a timeout card dealt quickly to distract these moronic types from posting- instead the thread gets canned so everyone suffers.

Lots of good posters only post in private forums now as a result- Im not a big fan of private forums as they have their own set of challenges not least of which is the tendency for more concentrated examples of narcissistic traits to emerge and take hold.

Anthracite · 01-01-2018 12:46AM

One other comical thing that happened to me, come to think of it, was that I closed an account a few years ago with 15,000+ posts on it because I felt I was spending too much time on Boards.

A month or two later I relented (relapsed?) and created a new account and resumed posting - very briefly, as it turned out, as I was site-banned for re-registering. That was me done with Boards for a couple of years.

LollipopJimmy · 01-01-2018 01:10AM

Anthracite wrote: »

One other comical thing that happened to me, come to think of it, was that I closed an account a few years ago with 15,000+ posts on it because I felt I was spending too much time on Boards.

A month or two later I relented (relapsed?) and created a new account and resumed posting - very briefly, as it turned out, as I was site-banned for re-registering. That was me done with Boards for a couple of years.

That's not against the rules though?

Nabber · 01-01-2018 01:20AM

Reddit is better. Easier to keep up with.

I’m usually just on the weather forum as their are some really decent posters there.

The thing that kills me about boards is the QUOTE.
When fools just quote a massive post to say “I agree”

Anthracite · 01-01-2018 01:33AM

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

That's not against the rules though?

I don't know if it is, but I was essentially treated as if I had been banned and re-regged. I'd had the dispute resolution merry-go-round a few times by that stage (and we all know that's a total waste of time) so I didn't bother even appealing it.

Essentially, Boards turned a massive contributor and customer (of their advertising) into a public detractor due to the idiocy of the moderation.<snip>

looksee · 01-01-2018 03:19PM

Would there be any point in having a properly constructed, one-off site wide survey to see what the majority of users think of the site and specifically moderation. Not anonymous, to stop messing, and maybe over 50 posts or similar so people can't just rereg to fill it in.

Very general questions such as

Do you think moderation on the site is a. very good, b. ok, c. sometimes poor, d. poor.
Do you think it is a. consistent across the whole site, b. a bit inconsistent, c. very inconsistent.
Do you think it should be a. totally consistent, b, a bit more consistent, c. forums should be modded depending on the type of forum.
Should there be a clear indication on each forum to say what level of modding applies.
Should modding rules be standardised within those levels so that there are fewer forum charters.

dxhound2005 · 01-01-2018 03:34PM

That survey would just attract the same people who are on this thread complaining about instances of moderation which annoyed them, sometimes years ago.

It would be more useful if we knew that any major changes to moderation practices were instituted since 2009. To cause an increase of one million posts between 2009 and 2011, but then to lose 44% since. If no major changes were made, then the cause is nothing to do with moderation.

looksee · 01-01-2018 04:02PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

That survey would just attract the same people who are on this thread complaining about instances of moderation which annoyed them, sometimes years ago.

It would be more useful if we knew that any major changes to moderation practices were instituted since 2009. To cause an increase of one million posts between 2009 and 2011, but then to lose 44% since. If no major changes were made, then the cause is nothing to do with moderation.

Yes it would, but it might also show that if a wide range of users could be asked for an opinion it would become pretty obvious pretty quickly that it is a limited number of discontented people who are continuing to argue. It could well be shown that the great majority are happy with the situation.

I am not aware that there have been any major changes in moderation - there was a bit of a relaxing of moderation but that wasn't an edict, it was just something that developed almost casually. I honestly think that mods and admins already know it is not a moderation issue (which is not to say that all moderation is perfect, what is?) But it is not the cause of any variation in membership.

Things change, and something as ephemeral as social media will and does change inevitably. It doesn't mean anyone is doing something wrong. The whole print industry has changed, the retail industry has changed, political systems have changed. New alternatives will be found, it's just the way it is.

TheAnalyst_ · 01-01-2018 04:08PM

looksee wrote: »

Would there be any point in having a properly constructed, one-off site wide survey to see what the majority of users think of the site and specifically moderation. Not anonymous, to stop messing, and maybe over 50 posts or similar so people can't just rereg to fill it in.

Very general questions such as

Do you think moderation on the site is a. very good, b. ok, c. sometimes poor, d. poor.
Do you think it is a. consistent across the whole site, b. a bit inconsistent, c. very inconsistent.
Do you think it should be a. totally consistent, b, a bit more consistent, c. forums should be modded depending on the type of forum.
Should there be a clear indication on each forum to say what level of modding applies.
Should modding rules be standardised within those levels so that there are fewer forum charters.

Better to ask the thousands that have left.

dxhound2005 · 01-01-2018 04:12PM

TheAnalyst_ wrote: »

Better to ask the thousands that have left.

I would like to know those numbers. Your information is only the number of posts per year. What about the number of member per year? It could be a general decline in usage by a large number of posters, rather than closed accounts.

rgodard80a · 01-01-2018 04:28PM

Tell me how wrote: »

A mod is like the conductor of an orchestra, they absolutely impact on the tone.

You get what you pay for in fairness.

I think it's amazing how someones business model for their company relies on volunteers whose sole incentive tends to be a mix of appearing as an expert in their field and indulging in their own personal power trip tendencies.

Discodog · 01-01-2018 04:35PM

Why not have a program that messages new users & asks about their experiences ? Businesses do it, like a customer satisfaction survey.

The same could be sent to a user who stops posting.

Tell me how · 01-01-2018 04:38PM

rgodard80a wrote:

I think it's amazing how someones business model for their company relies on volunteers whose sole incentive tends to be a mix of appearing as an expert in their field and indulging in their own personal power trip tendencies.

I assume you are suggesting these should be paid roles?

How many do you think you'd need it they were to have a suitable level of knowledge over the forums they were going to be modding?

Where would the funding for this be sourced from?

How many posts would there be the following year if all posters had to pay a fee?

How much ruckus would there be over now "professional" mods making decisions?

Completely unworkable in my view.

rgodard80a · 01-01-2018 05:02PM

Tell me how wrote: »

I assume you are suggesting these should be paid roles?

How many do you think you'd need it they were to have a suitable level of knowledge over the forums they were going to be modding?

Where would the funding for this be sourced from?

How many posts would there be the following year if all posters had to pay a fee?

How much ruckus would there be over now "professional" mods making decisions?

Completely unworkable in my view.

Yes, I agree.

Completely unworkable to have professional mods and also currently barely workable as a half-charity/community model run as a business.

If you look at the political spectrum of potential boards users, Boards actively prunes their potential user base based on their opinions.

The active minority lobby groups have scared businesses into submission, and boards as a business run by someone who wants to earn money, has to comply. So if we assume there's a "middle group", and far left and far right, they've probably pruned or muzzled 30-40% of the "right wing" section of the population.

What people don't realise is that most "right wing" opinions tend to be protectors of the current status.

Germany is feeling the impact of a left wing government as have Sweden.
One group balances the other, but not on boards.

Wanderer2010 · 01-01-2018 05:07PM

rgodard80a wrote: »

You get what you pay for in fairness.

I think it's amazing how someones business model for their company relies on volunteers whose sole incentive tends to be a mix of appearing as an expert in their field and indulging in their own personal power trip tendencies.

Exactly. Anyone who WANTS to be a mod shouldn't be a mod.

Tell me how · 01-01-2018 05:11PM

rgodard80a wrote:

If you look at the political spectrum of potential boards users, Boards actively prunes their potential user base based on their opinions.

This is the crux of the matter.

Boards see this as users not following the charters of the forums in whichever are posting.

The individuals being sanctioned or removed see it as selective judgement by Boards with a liberal bias.

Most other posters see people who when countered with evidence, resort to dramatic, highly subjective, antagonising statements which indicates they misunderstand free speech with respect to being civil to others in the conversation.

You don't see many Ben Shapiro's posting in Boards. And the place would be better for them, to further the debate.

01-01-2018 06:20PM

dxhound2005 wrote: »

It would be more useful if we knew that any major changes to moderation practices were instituted since 2009. To cause an increase of one million posts between 2009 and 2011, but then to lose 44% since. If no major changes were made, then the cause is nothing to do with moderation.

Well, here's one to start the ball rolling.

The mighty moderator of The Cuckoos Nest, in his great WISDOM at THAT TIME, decided, that counting to One Million, even in delicate bite sized chunks of 10,000 per thread to allow the hamsters their unionised hours, was not a worthwhile activity.

The forum folded basically overnight and posters who contributed countless hours to not just the One Million thread but also to other threads of similar major significance, deserted in their droves- Good Times, Bad Times.:(

That certainly accounts for a few hundred thousand of those posts mentioned in the statistics throughout that period.

01-01-2018 06:39PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well, here's one to start the ball rolling.

The mighty moderator of The Cuckoos Nest, in his great WISDOM at THAT TIME, decided, that counting to One Million, even in delicate bite sized chunks of 10,000 per thread to allow the hamsters their unionised hours, was not a worthwhile activity.

The forum folded basically overnight and posters who contributed countless hours to not just the One Million thread but also to other threads of similar major significance, deserted in their droves- Good Times, Bad Times.:(

That certainly accounts for a few hundred thousand of those posts mentioned in the statistics throughout that period.

The Nest was a booming forum back in the day but some drama or other occurred which changed it. That was before my time here. I only started to post there when an AH thread was moved and had hoped it would become a place for silly irreverance but sadly that was not to be.

the_pen_turner · 01-01-2018 06:46PM

the problem with the cuckoos nest and similar sections is that the average new user looks in and hasn't a clue what that section is about or what could be discussed in there.
I looked at it again before posting this and I still don't know what the point of it is.
maybe clarifying these sections could help users decide that it is the place to post a topic.
AH is just a catch all for everything that isn't in the top 10 other sections

01-01-2018 07:31PM

tCN is simply a dumping ground for topics that are simply too silly to be anywhere else, it's also a place to say stuff that is really ridiculous and not offend anyone.
There used to be the thread that had a competition to have the last word before boards shutdown for the 3AM backup and a booby prize of having the first post after the system was enabled after the backup. Silly stuff like that.

Insect Overlord · 01-01-2018 07:36PM

The Cuckoo's Nest used to be something of a Dadaist haven, a place for artists and lunatics and intellectuals and fools to work with each other and express themselves via complicated nonsense and avant garde art that wouldn't have worked elsewhere on the site. It was fun for the sake of fun. Posts there didn't add to one's Post Count, and the Thanks function was never implemented there, because material/numerical rewards were not necessary.

It really was annihilated by the loss of some of its central characters over the years, for different reasons. I never really fit in to it myself.

Don Kiddick · 01-01-2018 07:40PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

tCN is simply a dumping ground for topics that are simply too silly to be anywhere else, it's also a place to say stuff that is really ridiculous and not offend anyone.
There used to be the thread that had a competition to have the last word before boards shutdown for the 3AM backup and a booby prize of having the first post after the system was enabled after the backup. Silly stuff like that.

A proper Thunderdome is needed.... again

I have to say though..the sex and sexuality forum is a laugh....I was there for a while...posted in the off topic chat...and that was it! ... absolute rubbish...the same 6-10 posters all the time...and it was frankly... boring as fck...I've had a reincarnation or 2 since then...and no, I have no wish to go back...but it's quite obvious that its not working due to the amount of people having to ask for access again after a period of inactivity....lads....if there's nothing worth commenting on..people won't!

The slow death of forums *see OP for Admin warning and update 28/02/18*

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The slow death of forums see OP for Admin warning and update 28/02/18