Disappointing number of financials plan to come to Dublin post-Brexit

parc · 29-12-2017 12:53PM #1

Probably a good thing, at least in the short term?

I did wonder about how the cost of housing would sky rocket if even more high paying multinational corporations came to Dublin

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/financial-services/disappointing-number-of-financials-plan-to-come-to-dublin-post-brexit-1.3327469

Atlantic Dawn · 29-12-2017 12:57PM

Dublin can't cope with the current population, adding another 20k workers would be a bad idea.

29-12-2017 01:03PM

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Dublin can't cope with the current population, adding another 20k workers would be a bad idea.

Unless the Govt stopped focusing entirely on Dublin and encouraged the workers/employees to live outside Dublin. Travelling from Athlone to Dublin, even with going into the center of the city, is still a shorter commute than many have to experience whilst working in London.

Dublin is saturated. It's time to encourage development for the rest of the country. 20k new employees living in a satellite town would totally revitalize the economy of the local area. But, nah, the whole focus is entirely on the main cities.

parc · 29-12-2017 01:05PM

Is the answer to just expand North Dublin? Lost of nice flat there, I'd imagine it would be easier to do it there rather than South (mountains) or West (already too expansive?).

Bob Harris · 29-12-2017 01:07PM

Stick them in Dublin where infrastructure is 20 years behind and don't bother breathing new life and jobs into regional cities and towns.

Del2005 · 29-12-2017 01:10PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Unless the Govt stopped focusing entirely on Dublin and encouraged the workers/employees to live outside Dublin. Travelling from Athlone to Dublin, even with going into the center of the city, is still a shorter commute than many have to experience whilst working in London.

Dublin is saturated. It's time to encourage development for the rest of the country. 20k new employees living in a satellite town would totally revitalize the economy of the local area. But, nah, the whole focus is entirely on the main cities.

Building out is not the solution. We need to build up.

People want to live in cities so we need to make it possible. Making people commute for an hour to work is not a viable work life balance. High rise beside quality public transport, trains and segregated buses/trams, needs to be built in Dublin. Because if we don't do both then we are just creating more problems.

29-12-2017 01:20PM

Del2005 wrote: »

Building out is not the solution. We need to build up.

People want to live in cities so we need to make it possible. Making people commute for an hour to work is not a viable work life balance. High rise beside quality public transport, trains and segregated buses/trams, needs to be built in Dublin. Because if we don't do both then we are just creating more problems.

Irish people generally dream of buying a house. Not an apartment. Therefore, you're going to find resistance to that kind of build up. I do agree with you that Dublin needs to heavily invest in the high-rises (and the services needed for those high-rises) that are common in modern cities.

However, I don't believe that the focus on Dublin is healthy for the country. Yes, Dublin should be encouraged to build upwards rather than building outwards. It's already an overly large city considering the actual population involved. But Dublin is not Ireland, and this focus on Dublin will drive people away from the countryside (lack of jobs, investment etc), and not simply towards Dublin but instead to other countries.

KellyXX · 29-12-2017 01:22PM

I'm in finance.
Our company, which is big already are even now on an expansion path to sweep up the business created by brexit.
They are estimating we will be doubling in size over a few years.
We are not the only ones.
It's not just about companys moving over, it's about the business moving over.
And then the headcount has to increase to deal with that.

lmimmfn · 29-12-2017 01:23PM

Whatever we do get will only be shell companies as per usual, knocking up the artificial GDP and making us pay more to the EU due to it.,Employees would be idiots to come here with such high taxes.

29-12-2017 01:26PM

lmimmfn wrote: »

Whatever we do get will only be shell companies as per usual, knocking up the artificial GDP and making us pay more to the EU due to it.,Employees would be idiots to come here with such high taxes.

Absolutely amazing that our votes count for the same.

humberklog · 29-12-2017 01:27PM

Put more emphasis on living outside the city, invest really heavily in a cracking train infrastructure, Bingo! Brits love their train commutes and living somewhere leafy.

The_Kew_Tour · 29-12-2017 01:27PM

I thought we were sorted once UK left EU?:pac:

or so we were told

29-12-2017 01:27PM

Bob Harris wrote: »

Stick them in Dublin where infrastructure is 20 years behind and don't bother breathing new life and jobs into regional cities and towns.

We have been through this previously.

A very good national spatial strategy was suggested near 20 years ago for pushing development into a SMALL number of regional cities to try to achieve this.

I think it was designed by planner / geographer profesional types and I remember thinking it was quite good.

The politicians then got a hold of it to implement it. It was not acceptable to them (aka their voters) because every bloody town in the country could not be promised a University/International airport/Intel etc. Hard decisions had to be made.

The plan was watered down to nothing i think. Everybody got a little so ultimately no one gets anything.

Gateways

Cork
Limerick—Shannon
Galway
Sligo
Letterkenny—Derry
Dundalk
Dublin
Tullamore—Athlone—Mullingar
Waterford

Hubs

Tralee and Killarney
Mallow
Ennis
Tuam
Castlebar and Ballina
Monaghan
Cavan
Kilkenny
Wexford

Soooooo here we are........ too late, nothing done... we are where we are now

29-12-2017 01:38PM

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Soooooo here we are........ too late, nothing done... we are where we are now

Because there's no accountability for poor decisions after they leave office (or during it).

Seems like our politicians just love to create problems for future governments to solve (or simply pass on to the next government, and so on). Anything that is done is more of a short-term publicity stunt. Instant gratification rather than any long-term benefits to the country.

Ulysses Gaze · 29-12-2017 01:41PM

No-one, bar some Irish perhaps, that has lived and made a life for themselves in London will want to live anywhere outside of Dublin. If they had to move here.

You are dreaming if you think they'll want to live in Galway, Cork or Limerick.

Del2005 · 29-12-2017 01:43PM

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

We have been through this previously.

A very good national spatial strategy was suggested near 20 years ago for pushing development into a SMALL number of regional cities to try to achieve this.

I think it was designed by planner / geographer profesional types and I remember thinking it was quite good.

The politicians then got a hold of it to implement it. It was not acceptable to them (aka their voters) because every bloody town in the country could not be promised a University/International airport/Intel etc. Hard decisions had to be made.

The plan was watered down to nothing i think. Everybody got a little so ultimately no one gets anything.

Gateways

Cork
Limerick—Shannon
Galway
Sligo
Letterkenny—Derry
Dundalk
Dublin
Tullamore—Athlone—Mullingar
Waterford

Hubs

Tralee and Killarney
Mallow
Ennis
Tuam
Castlebar and Ballina
Monaghan
Cavan
Kilkenny
Wexford

Soooooo here we are........ too late, nothing done... we are where we are now

The spatial strategy would have worked if the decentralisation was matched to it. We had a plan to build up regional centres and shortly after a plan to move thousands of civil servants out of Dublin. It wouldn't have been too difficult to seed the regional centres with government departments but instead the parish pump won out, as usual.

29-12-2017 01:44PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Because there's no accountability for poor decisions after they leave office (or during it).

Accountability? Berties FF government was repeatedly re-elected.

The voters did not like the type of difficult decisions that would have to be taken. (push development and infrastructure into Cork / Galway / Limerick areas and tell Ballygobackwards get stuffed)

These planning decisions are solely the fault of the irish electorate.

Ulysses Gaze · 29-12-2017 01:45PM

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Accountability? Berties FF government was repeatedly re-elected.

The voters did not like the type of difficult decisions that would have to be taken. (push development and infrastructure into Cork / Galway / Limerick areas and tell Ballygobackwards get stuffed)

These planning decisions are solely the fault of the irish electorate.

Who think local and never national.

Fr_Dougal · 29-12-2017 01:45PM

You can’t just decide to ‘stick’ these companies in the likes of Athlone or other regional towns. These businesses are in competition for attracting talent. A lot of their employees like city living and all that goes with it, they’re not going to be impressed with the likes of Athlone or Carlow etc., and you wouldn’t blame them.

29-12-2017 01:48PM

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

No-one, bar some Irish perhaps, that has lived and made a life for themselves in London will want to live anywhere outside of Dublin. If they had to move here.

You are dreaming if you think they'll want to live in Galway, Cork or Limerick.

That's interesting because most of the professionals I knew working in London, were saving money so that they could buy a house in a sleepy town/village in the countryside. After commuting or living in crappy apartments in the city, many of them with families wanted to live outside the cities.

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Accountability? Berties FF government was repeatedly re-elected.

The voters did not like the type of difficult decisions that would have to be taken. (push development and infrastructure into Cork / Galway / Limerick areas and tell Ballygobackwards get stuffed)

These planning decisions are solely the fault of the irish electorate.

Fair enough.

Ulysses Gaze · 29-12-2017 01:49PM

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

You can’t just decide to ‘stick’ these companies in the likes of Athlone or other regional towns. These businesses are in competition for attracting talent. A lot of their employees like city living and all that goes with it, they’re not going to be impressed with the likes of Athlone or Carlow etc., and you wouldn’t blame them.

They are not going to be atttacted to Cork, Limerick or Galway either.

Cork is no bigger or attractive than Exeter, and very few people who work in the City of London would want to move to Exeter.

Del2005 · 29-12-2017 01:50PM

humberklog wrote: »

Put more emphasis on living outside the city, invest really heavily in a cracking train infrastructure, Bingo! Brits love their train commutes and living somewhere leafy.

People don't want to live outside cities. Is there any country in the world where rural areas are experiencing population growth?

People use commuter trains if they have no other option. I'd guess that if you asked the commuters doing a 30 minute or more commute are they happy you'd get a large amount of No's.

29-12-2017 01:51PM

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

You can’t just decide to ‘stick’ these companies in the likes of Athlone or other regional towns. These businesses are in competition for attracting talent. A lot of their employees like city living and all that goes with it, they’re not going to be impressed with the likes of Athlone or Carlow etc., and you wouldn’t blame them.

I wasn't suggesting sticking the companies themselves in the countryside, but rather the employees. Those that want to live in the city, will continue to do so, facing the costs inherent in that. But there will be those with families and others who will prefer to live outside of the cities. You can easily see that in the numbers who commute daily to London or other major cities in the UK.

29-12-2017 01:54PM

Del2005 wrote: »

The spatial strategy would have worked if the decentralisation was matched to it. We had a plan to build up regional centres and shortly after a plan to move thousands of civil servants out of Dublin. It wouldn't have been too difficult to seed the regional centres with government departments but instead the parish pump won out, as usual.

Decentralisation was a pie in the sky vote getter plan by McCreevy that he worked out on the back of a fag packet in the dail bar.

It had little to do with improving the actual functioning of the state and all to do with grabbing votes in local towns.

(Im not totally against moving parts of state organisations around the country but it needs to be very carefully done as part of a long long term strategy, not bloody smash & grab in the ministers department)

Aongus Von Bismarck · 29-12-2017 02:02PM

Highly skilled, highly educated, and highly remunerated finance professionals (such as myself) don't want to live in some parochial backwater like Cork, Limerick or Galway. The type of place where the cultural highlight of the year is a Macnas parade, or where a local is likely to recommend a fish and chip shop as a dining destination. It just isn't going to happen.

Even Dublin is a very tough sell. It's fine for low-end back office grunts and drones, but you're not going to attract much of the type of work that is so sought after by other more attractive destinations such as Paris and Amsterdam.

Ted Plain · 29-12-2017 02:07PM

Some things that would help, in my humble opinion:

- Make the docklands area into a skyscraper district. Planning decisions railroaded through.

- Invest heavily in a fully-integrated transport system. When you arrive in Heathrow or Frankfurt you have an array of high-quality transport options. In Dublin you have the bus. I would associate "bussing it" with going in to sign on the dole in Werburgh St., not with commuting to a fancy finance job. Nobody wants to take a bus.

- Litter. Dublin is in large parts rancidly dirty. Stretches of the docklands, on the way to many of these new glass office buildings, are especially bad and make for a terrible first impression. It needs to be seriously sorted out.

longshanks · 29-12-2017 02:08PM

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

Highly skilled, highly educated, and highly remunerated finance professionals (such as myself) don't want to live in some parochial backwater like Cork, Limerick or Galway. The type of place where the cultural highlight of the year is a Macnas parade, or where a local is likely to recommend a fish and chip shop as a dining destination. It just isn't going to happen.

Even Dublin is a very tough sell. It's fine for low-end back office grunts and drones, but you're not going to attract much of the type of work that is so sought after by other more attractive destinations such as Paris and Amsterdam.

Try harder little man.

Capt'n Midnight · 29-12-2017 02:12PM

Del2005 wrote: »

Building out is not the solution. We need to build up.

People want to live in cities so we need to make it possible. Making people commute for an hour to work is not a viable work life balance. High rise beside quality public transport, trains and segregated buses/trams, needs to be built in Dublin. Because if we don't do both then we are just creating more problems.

NO !

we need to build down, start a subterranean civilisation, bomb proof and powered by geothermal energy, we can come out at night to feed on the daywalkers

snotboogie · 29-12-2017 02:21PM

Beyond Asset Management, Dublin doesn't have the infrastructure or connections to take any serious portions of London's financial business. London as a financial center is successful because of it's connectivity between North America, Europe and Asia. Dublin and Ireland have almost zero connections to Asia; Hong Kong, Shanghai, Tokyo, Singapore, Sydney and Beijing are all top 10 global financial centres, Ireland has zero physical infrastructure to link with these and with the exception of Sydney has essentially zero business connections with any of these cities. Frankfurt has all of the physical infrastructure and Germany have been building strong business connections out East, particularly in Mainland China.
Ireland still has a 1970's worldview with regards to international trade, with the world starting in San Francisco and ending in Berlin and maybe some vague notions of burgeoning success in Japan. While we have outstanding links to the United States we are genuinely 50 years behind the likes of the UK and Germany when it comes to links with Asia. There was no way we could ever take on any significant portion of London's Financial Business. To believe that we could was utterly delusional.

RDM_83 again · 29-12-2017 02:27PM

longshanks wrote: »

Aongus Von Bismarck wrote: »

Highly skilled, highly educated, and highly remunerated finance professionals (such as myself) don't want to live in some parochial backwater like Cork, Limerick or Galway. The type of place where the cultural highlight of the year is a Macnas parade, or where a local is likely to recommend a fish and chip shop as a dining destination. It just isn't going to happen.

Even Dublin is a very tough sell. It's fine for low-end back office grunts and drones, but you're not going to attract much of the type of work that is so sought after by other more attractive destinations such as Paris and Amsterdam.

Try harder little man.

In this case at least I wouldn't be sure AvonB is actually trolling, it's sort of the truth,Dublin isn't big really and doesn't have much going on in comparison to a "world city", it's also got a pretty run down look and obvious petty criminality going on.
I don't mind it as a place but in the grand scheme of things it's a city of 1/1.5 million on a small island.
It would be easier to get people that aren't that senior too move.

In terms of the pushing these jobs outside of Dublin are people mad, there is a big difference between Oxford and Athlone and keep in mind wages in Oxford/M4 corridor are still damn good.

snotboogie · 29-12-2017 02:30PM

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

You can’t just decide to ‘stick’ these companies in the likes of Athlone or other regional towns. These businesses are in competition for attracting talent. A lot of their employees like city living and all that goes with it, they’re not going to be impressed with the likes of Athlone or Carlow etc., and you wouldn’t blame them.

They are not going to be atttacted to Cork, Limerick or Galway either.

Cork is no bigger or attractive than Exeter, and very few people who work in the City of London would want to move to Exeter.

The city itself is double the size of Exeter and is home to the European HQ of the largest tech multinational in the world and a number of major Pharma Companies. Anyway it's a moot point, Cork has zero designs on becoming any sort of financial centre but it is aggressively targeting the London maritime services, time will tell how successful they will be but the Horgan's Quay development is a very positive sign.

Disappointing number of financials plan to come to Dublin post-Brexit

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