Dairy chit chat II

Mooooo · 21-12-2017 11:14AM

mahoney_j wrote: »

I’d like that too moo ,what number cows do u think that would be .for me it would be 200,honestly can’t see it happening on milk block as everyone has vice like grip on land

Like that I guess it's different for everyone, as everyone's investment situations and drawing requirements are different. This year the hired in labour is in or around 2.7c/L, tb reduced output but he is only here since March. If i can get to the 140 mark and sell circa 900k litres of milk the labour cost would be somewhere between 2 and 3 cent/L. Now our scenario has changed in the last 2 years now with drawings reducing but last year I sent out the most milk out of this farm at 840k litres on my own but tbh I was burned out from that and the personal side so taking someone on if possible can just relieve the pressure all round. I would agree fulltime person you would want to be at 200 or so but part time if they can be found 150 mark I guess.
The lad working with me works with the neighbour the other days and also doing the green cert so has an interest and can do everything so it's working well at the minute in that he has fill weeks work and myself and neighbour can swap at short notice if anything comes up

Timmaay · 21-12-2017 11:24AM

Panjandrums wrote: »

Did I see that you were having trouble with finding good labour aswell?

Yes and no ha, as things stand right now with 110 cows I'm fairly comfortable here with the bit of relief milk, and the few weeks help in the early spring when 20 heifers land in the last rows. However I do have the land, the winter accommodation wouldn't take much to upgrade, and the parlour could definitely handle the extra few rows to make a quick and easy jump up to 150 cows, but the stumbling blocks are 1stly lower hanging fruit is the current herd, need to improve 6wk calving rate, lower empty rates, and improve kgms/lactation 1st before I bother lumping in extra cows into the system. I'm lucky enough that I'm fairly comfortable money wise, if I go to the next step of likes of 140+ cows then it will only be if I have the right people around me, say full time spring help, and likes of being able to take a month off during the quieter times on the farm. A good friend of mine did land on the door with an interesting prepositional to hit 160cows here for the year, however the sums just didn't make sense at the minute.

Coolfresian · 21-12-2017 11:46AM

Iv come to the conclusion that time is more important than money. I'm 28 and realising that Milking more cows is not everything. We went from milking 90 to 150 cows this year and looks like 175 next year despite not intending to expand much more. Also run a calf to beef enterprise on farm. About 500 head being managed by 2 family members. It's definitely doable but tbh I had a much more time off 3 years ago. No point expanding just to give extra labour or landlords the profits.

K.G. · 21-12-2017 11:48AM

Contract rearing has to be looked at on a whole farm approach as wether it is right.for you depends land available and its position,labour,facilities.no point in contract rearing if the.milking parlour tank is already maxed or slatted houses and blocks of ground not suited to cows or silage.basically it pays best where no investment is required and grass is put straight into the cows.

yewtree · 21-12-2017 12:21PM

K.G. wrote: »

Contract rearing has to be looked at on a whole farm approach as wether it is right.for you depends land available and its position,labour,facilities.no point in contract rearing if the.milking parlour tank is already maxed or slatted houses and blocks of ground not suited to cows or silage.basically it pays best where no investment is required and grass is put straight into the cows.

That is a very fair summary, if i owned a dry outside block not too far away it would be cheaper in cash terms to rear heifers myself.
however I dont and when i cost land rental,time and money to travel to outblocks and investment required in winter facilities it is cost neutral here.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 21-12-2017 01:04PM

Reggie. wrote: »

Are you still getting some.....

At your age :eek:

More in hope than expectation :pac:

oxjkqg · 21-12-2017 01:41PM

What kind of cost per animal per day is it working out at for the contract rearing?
Also who provides the medicines/doses..
From what age are you letting them go?

GrasstoMilk · 21-12-2017 07:46PM

oxjkqg wrote: »

What kind of cost per animal per day is it working out at for the contract rearing?
Also who provides the medicines/doses..
From what age are you letting them go?

Varies from 1.10€/ day up to 1.50 if rearer is buying AI straws and vaccines.
Typically 1.10€/day and farner buys doses/vaccines and AI costs

Buford T. Justice XIX · 21-12-2017 07:55PM

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Varies from 1.10€/ day up to 1.50 if rearer is buying AI straws and vaccines.
Typically 1.10€/day and farner buys doses/vaccines and AI costs

What wintering is included in that, G2M?

Is that a cost/day from 8 weeks to a month before calving?

darragh_haven · 21-12-2017 08:35PM

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Varies from 1.10€/ day up to 1.50 if rearer is buying AI straws and vaccines.
Typically 1.10€/day and farner buys doses/vaccines and AI costs

Was looking at what to do with the farm here. A guy came to us to do heifers rearing. Did the figures and there is feck all money in it for the rearer (me) if i have a day job. What profit I would have out of it would be taxed at more or less 50%

wrangler · 21-12-2017 08:43PM

darragh_haven wrote: »

Was looking at what to do with the farm here. A guy came to us to do heifers rearing. Did the figures and there is feck all money in it for the rearer if he has a day job. What profit I would have out of it would be taxed at more or less 50%

Yea, I don't think I'd do it either at that

mahoney_j · 21-12-2017 09:26PM

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Varies from 1.10€/ day up to 1.50 if rearer is buying AI straws and vaccines.
Typically 1.10€/day and farner buys doses/vaccines and AI costs

That a dd to rearer r of 3 to 4 k per month plus transport ,vaccines dosing and ai .a fair expense ,

yewtree · 21-12-2017 10:04PM

mahoney_j wrote: »

That a dd to rearer r of 3 to 4 k per month plus transport ,vaccines dosing and ai .a fair expense ,

There is one thing certain whether you rear heifers yourself or if you work with a heifer rearer its not cheap.
the difference is a heifer rearer makes the payments more visible in the account rather than the slow draining of cash from the buisness when heifers are reared by the dairy farmer

alps · 21-12-2017 10:38PM

darragh_haven wrote: »

Was looking at what to do with the farm here. A guy came to us to do heifers rearing. Did the figures and there is feck all money in it for the rearer (me) if i have a day job. What profit I would have out of it would be taxed at more or less 50%

But that's not the fault of the heifer rearing business......the reason for the 50% tax, is your day job earnings....

Surly, any form of farm profit therefore will be taxed at 50%, and will make any farming enterprise, in your opinion, not worth while...

Nekarsulm · 21-12-2017 10:48PM

darragh_haven wrote: »

Was looking at what to do with the farm here. A guy came to us to do heifers rearing. Did the figures and there is feck all money in it for the rearer (me) if i have a day job. What profit I would have out of it would be taxed at more or less 50%

5 year lease if it's a lad you can trust, and get on with.
X euro per hectare plus whatever % of the entitlements you both agree to.
Review in 2019 cause entitlement value will be reviewed then too.

All lease monies recieved is tax free at the moment.

darragh_haven · 22-12-2017 01:15AM

alps wrote: »

But that's not the fault of the heifer rearing business......the reason for the 50% tax, is your day job earnings....

Surly, any form of farm profit therefore will be taxed at 50%, and will make any farming enterprise, in your opinion, not worth while...

Of coarse it's not the fault of the heifers rearing business. But there are very few lads heifers rearing that are doing it as their main job. One neighbour did it for 3 years (said profit was €26k to €28k) and gave up on it, then leased it to the same farmer and got 22k tax free And was still his own boss on the few acres he held onto.

My main point is that the rearer usually will have another job, and would be better off leasing it out tax free.

And it's neither the rearer nor the farmers fault that the money isn't in the game .

alps · 22-12-2017 01:26AM

darragh_haven wrote: »

Of coarse it's not the fault of the heifers rearing business. But there are very few lads heifers rearing that are doing it as their main job. One neighbour did it for 3 years (said profit was €26k to €28k) and gave up on it, then leased it to the same farmer and got 22k tax free And was still his own boss on the few acres he held onto.

My main point is that the rearer usually will have another job, and would be better off leasing it out tax free.

And it's neither the rearer nor the farmers fault that the money isn't in the game .

Leasing would certainly be an option, and would be very beneficial to you, but would be really beneficial to the rearer if you supplied the labour and had that reflected in the lease price. Dairy Farmers look to the rearer option as much for the labour saving as for the land access.

Nekarsulm · 22-12-2017 01:34AM

To my mind, leasing and still supplying the labour is neither one nor the other.
You need a clean break and let him at it.
He/She needs to be let be their own boss.
Otherwise, are you the landlord or are you the hired labour?

Is he going to blame you if an animal gets blackleg and dies? Is he going to feel sore about paying the labour element of the deal afterwards?

It can get messy .
And if you have a job, trying to lease it out and still work it, makes no sense to me.

Gawddawggonnit · 22-12-2017 08:48AM

Staff party last night. Go Karting and meal afterwards...can hardly walk. After a half an hour driving I’m physically wrecked. Old age.

wrangler · 22-12-2017 08:49AM

Nekarsulm wrote: »

To my mind, leasing and still supplying the labour is neither one nor the other.
You need a clean break and let him at it.
He/She needs to be let be their own boss.
Otherwise, are you the landlord or are you the hired labour?

Is he going to blame you if an animal gets blackwater and dies? Is he going to feel sore about paying the labour element of the deal afterwards?

It can get messy .
And if you have a job, trying to lease it out and still work it, makes no sense to me.

You have to treat leasing the same as selling, sign it off and walk away.
Can't believe the demand for land here. apparently won't have much problem leasing the entitlements either

Reggie. · 22-12-2017 09:19AM

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

Staff party last night. Go Karting and meal afterwards...can hardly walk. After a half an hour driving I’m physically wrecked. Old age.

The auld bones are wrecked lad

Injuryprone · 22-12-2017 10:45AM

mahoney_j wrote: »

That a dd to rearer r of 3 to 4 k per month plus transport ,vaccines dosing and ai .a fair expense ,

Rearing over 100 heifers is also a fair expense. Didn't know g2m was rearing that many.

jaymla627 · 22-12-2017 11:23AM

Pretty scathing article on agriland re genomics, LIC have definitely found their unique selling point in Ireland with their daughter proven bulls, only 5-6% of inseminations are genomic out in New Zealand was as high as 40% its funny how jk and the journal didn't pick up on this when the whole icbf debacle was happening last spring, then again it wouldn't suit the agenda of Irish ai companies given they have the house bet on genomics

mahoney_j · 22-12-2017 12:37PM

jaymla627 wrote: »

Pretty scathing article on agriland re genomics, LIC have definitely found their unique selling point in Ireland with their daughter proven bulls, only 5-6% of inseminations are genomic out in New Zealand was as high as 40% its funny how jk and the journal didn't pick up on this when the whole icbf debacle was happening last spring, then again it wouldn't suit the agenda of Irish ai companies given they have the house bet on genomics

Vested interest

alps · 22-12-2017 12:47PM

jaymla627 wrote: »

Pretty scathing article on agriland re genomics, LIC have definitely found their unique selling point in Ireland with their daughter proven bulls, only 5-6% of inseminations are genomic out in New Zealand was as high as 40% its funny how jk and the journal didn't pick up on this when the whole icbf debacle was happening last spring, then again it wouldn't suit the agenda of Irish ai companies given they have the house bet on genomics

Plain and simple, this is 2 organisations in the same industry with distinctly different strategies...

Very interesting, because it may not take long to find out which one was correct...

.

Mooooo · 22-12-2017 08:01PM

Dried off 32 more cows and housed last of weanlings, down to 3 rows till the end off Jan now

whelan2 · 22-12-2017 08:06PM

Mooooo wrote: »

Dried off 32 more cows and housed last of weanlings, down to 3 rows till the end off Jan now

Had planned to dry off a good few tomorrow. Looked in the bucket of tubes and there's only enough for 4cows. I heard there's a shortage of boviseal too

Mooooo · 22-12-2017 08:49PM

Just had enough to do the lot, 4 three teat cows gave us ebough to do the last one. had plenty sealer. Used sureseal from the coop, dunno if it's as food as boviseal tho, easy enough to push and tubes seem smaller altho it says it has the same stuff I think.

Timmaay · 22-12-2017 09:02PM

Doing 1000l more at the minute per 3 day collection than this time last year, duno if that's a good thing or not ha. A row to be dried off during Xmas week, then another in early Jan. Only animals inside are the 64 milking cows.

freedominacup · 22-12-2017 09:48PM

Mooooo wrote: »

Dried off 32 more cows and housed last of weanlings, down to 3 rows till the end off Jan now

Got the weanlings in last Friday. Dried off the last of the Feb calvers yesterday. Cows were averaging 18.6 litres at yesterday's collection. That group are going to need more attention paid to cubicles than milking group for the next week. Guessing at around 7300l delivered per cow for the year. Hopefully close to 550kgs ms. Not too bad for a herd with an almost negative ebi score.

Dairy chit chat II

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