N2 - Slane Bypass [planning decision pending]

duffman3833 · 06-12-2016 10:20am

unicorn97 wrote: »

Please tell me you're joking.

How can the locals of Slane be tortured into crawling up and down them hills at 30km/h with speed cameras on them.

The stupidity of these speed limits are what cause accidents:mad:

i agree, im from Slane and daily have to go up that hill. I very seldom see anyone obeying the 30kmh speed limit because its ridiculous and too far out of the village. My partner has a box installed in her car by insurance company so she has to do 30kmh. I driven it a few times and find it extremely difficult to do 30kmh especially if there is traffic behind you waiting impatiently. Its more of a stressful experience every time. I have inquired to County Counsel (probably waste of time) to change the location of the speed limits, since there would be no chance of it ever going back to 50kmh. If they had it at 50 from the lay by on Dublin rd (This is if your coming from Dublin to Slane) right up until you just peak the hill entering Slane and then drop it to 30kmh. This will allow drivers to get up the hill and lorry's to have the momentum to get up safely, then once they get to the top drop to 30kmh. It would work so much better than doing 30kmh for like a mile before the village.

Charles Babbage · 06-12-2016 1:26pm

Carawaystick wrote: »

But the M1 is only a few km from Ardee, It makes no sense to have 2 national routes going to basically the same place.
Just ban HGV through traffic N/S in Ardee and Slane, only allowing e/w traffic on n51,52

Set up automatic speed cameras on the 30kmh section of existing road through Slane to encourage motorists to take an alternative route...

The M1/M50 junction is the busiest in the country, it makes no sense to have a policy of routing even more traffic through this one point.

veryangryman · 06-12-2016 1:33pm

Probably more looking for opinions but...

How realistic is this bypass to get built within next 5 years

spacetweek · 06-12-2016 2:29pm

veryangryman wrote: »

Probably more looking for opinions but...

How realistic is this bypass to get built within next 5 years

It's on the list so seemingly it will, yea.

marno21 · 14-01-2017 1:35am

Drogheda Independent article on allocations for 2017:

http://www.independent.ie/regionals/droghedaindependent/news/12m-funding-for-slane-35357185.html

Middle Man · 14-01-2017 8:49pm

duffman3833 wrote: »

i agree, im from Slane and daily have to go up that hill. I very seldom see anyone obeying the 30kmh speed limit because its ridiculous and too far out of the village. My partner has a box installed in her car by insurance company so she has to do 30kmh. I driven it a few times and find it extremely difficult to do 30kmh especially if there is traffic behind you waiting impatiently. Its more of a stressful experience every time. I have inquired to County Counsel (probably waste of time) to change the location of the speed limits, since there would be no chance of it ever going back to 50kmh. If they had it at 50 from the lay by on Dublin rd (This is if your coming from Dublin to Slane) right up until you just peak the hill entering Slane and then drop it to 30kmh. This will allow drivers to get up the hill and lorry's to have the momentum to get up safely, then once they get to the top drop to 30kmh. It would work so much better than doing 30kmh for like a mile before the village.

In general, I do wonder what kind of people set speed limits - especially when considering unrealistically low ones on motorway slips (M50 ones etc.) and toll point approaches (M3 southern toll for example). In urban areas blanket speed limits of 50kph are frequently applied, regardless of road conditions - some urban (or semi urban) roads are quite open and could take 60kph, while other such roads run through shopping areas where 30kph is far more appropriate. Also, instead of having a permanent speed limit of 50kph outside schools, why can't legislation be drawn up to facilitate part time speed limits where for example, a main rural regional road running past a school has a default speed limit of 80kph, but reduces to 30kph (with 50kph buffer approach zones) at school collection/drop off times.

I do wonder if many of those who decide on speed limits actually drive??? :rolleyes:

Sam Russell · 16-01-2017 9:46am

Middle Man wrote: »

In general, I do wonder what kind of people set speed limits - especially when considering unrealistically low ones on motorway slips (M50 ones etc.) and toll point approaches (M3 southern toll for example). In urban areas blanket speed limits of 50kph are frequently applied, regardless of road conditions - some urban (or semi urban) roads are quite open and could take 60kph, while other such roads run through shopping areas where 30kph is far more appropriate. Also, instead of having a permanent speed limit of 50kph outside schools, why can't legislation be drawn up to facilitate part time speed limits where for example, a main rural regional road running past a school has a default speed limit of 80kph, but reduces to 30kph (with 50kph buffer approach zones) at school collection/drop off times.

I do wonder if many of those who decide on speed limits actually drive??? :rolleyes:

Speed limits should be set according to engineering standards, not opinions of councillors. Some narrow rural roads, without hard shoulders, have 100 km/h limits, but others, like the N4 from Liffey Valley to the M4 have 80 km (used to be 60 km/h) when 100 km/h would be more appropriate.

More use of timed speed limit restrictions might be a good approach.

duffman3833 · 16-01-2017 12:56pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

Speed limits should be set according to engineering standards, not opinions of councillors.

Who would you even go to, to get this reviewed, County Council will do nothing

Sam Russell · 16-01-2017 1:17pm

duffman3833 wrote: »

Who would you even go to, to get this reviewed, County Council will do nothing

I would think it is Dept of Transport or the RSA who would be the lead authority. Leadership is usually in short supply though.

Middle Man · 16-01-2017 3:22pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

Speed limits should be set according to engineering standards, not opinions of councillors. Some narrow rural roads, without hard shoulders, have 100 km/h limits, but others, like the N4 from Liffey Valley to the M4 have 80 km (used to be 60 km/h) when 100 km/h would be more appropriate.

More use of timed speed limit restrictions might be a good approach.

Absolutely agree, but in addition speed limits should be determined by people with comprehensive driving experience in addition to their engineering qualifications.

Sam Russell · 16-01-2017 4:55pm

Middle Man wrote: »

Absolutely agree, but in addition speed limits should be determined by people with comprehensive driving experience in addition to their engineering qualifications.

What I mean by engineering is the following:

1. Width of carriageway and overall width of road

2. Standard of road - dual, single, with hard shoulder, width of hard shoulder

3. Type of intersections - at grade or grade separated, minor road or major intersection, etc.

4. Sight lines and gradients - how far can drivers see from main road, and how far can drivers on minor road see?

5 Quality of surface - how easy is it to stop from the speed limit?

You could add an element of subjective safety to this.

lucernarian · 16-01-2017 10:09pm

Middle Man wrote: »

Absolutely agree, but in addition speed limits should be determined by people with comprehensive driving experience in addition to their engineering qualifications.

In this country and with the prominence given to cars in everyday life, it seems rare that someone with a half-decent job like an engineer would not have a car...

Also, what has this to do with the planning process for the Slane bypass?

duffman3833 · 17-01-2017 11:32am

Deedsie wrote: »

What about other vulnerable road users that also use the road? Pedestrians and cyclists? Should they not be take into account when applying speed limits on roads?

the hard shoulders are massive down the Dublin road, a path from the lay by to the lights, there is a painted path across the bridge (not ideal but better than nothing), and path all way through village, and decent size paths also. Its safer than other villages out there for pedestrians and cyclists.

Sam Russell · 17-01-2017 11:55am

Deedsie wrote: »

What about other vulnerable road users that also use the road? Pedestrians and cyclists? Should they not be take into account when applying speed limits on roads?

Of course.

It is off topic, when I get time I'll move it to a new thread.

duffman3833 · 17-01-2017 11:57am

Deedsie wrote: »

You are 100% right for this area. I was just making the general point that there are more things to go into assigning speed limits on roads nationwide than the 5 points made by Sam Russell.

His points are all correct but it's not limited to that. How many pedestrians have been killed in the roads so far on our roads this year? 4 in two weeks?

Safety of vulnerable road users must also be considered.

If this is off topic mods let me know and I will delete.

i agree they need to be considered also no matter the location. If the bypass did actually happen it would certainly increase the safety of all for the village as no big lorries will be driving through. But as of now, and the speed limit of 30kmh, its just too ridiculous and needs to be looked at.

marno21 · 17-01-2017 1:49pm

Seeing as there are disconnected discussions taking place on the N2, N4 and N25 threads, here's a thread to discuss cyclist provisions on new national road schemes.

http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057694424/

Middle Man · 17-01-2017 4:19pm

duffman3833 wrote: »

i agree they need to be considered also no matter the location. If the bypass did actually happen it would certainly increase the safety of all for the village as no big lorries will be driving through. But as of now, and the speed limit of 30kmh, its just too ridiculous and needs to be looked at.

The speed limit be 30kph in the two main streets and on the bridge itself only - perhaps include the steep northern approach. The rest of Slane should be 50kph IMO.

marno21 · 25-02-2017 2:05am

Kicking the can down the road Full redesign of this scheme to start in 2017, as confirmed by Minister Ross when asked about safety issues on the N2 during the week

As regards major schemes, the proposed N2 Slane bypass has been included in the capital plan among those schemes planned to commence during the plan period. Funding totalling €1.2 million has been provided by TIl in 2017 to prepare a new design for the scheme.

Source: https://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2017-02-23a.487

Idbatterim · 25-02-2017 7:52am

Why a redesign?

road_high · 25-02-2017 11:19pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

Why a redesign?

Wasn't the original plan shot down by ABP or someone like that?

lucernarian · 26-02-2017 10:27am

road_high wrote: »

Wasn't the original plan shot down by ABP or someone like that?

I think because the traffic study undertaken wasn't comprehensive enough to justify the building of the road not so far from Newgrange and Ledwidge (sp?) House

Middle Man · 26-02-2017 9:40pm

This bypass needs to be built ASAP - Slane is a heritage town and should not have a main road (major regional or national) going through it.

lucernarian · 28-02-2017 7:40pm

Middle Man wrote: »

This bypass needs to be built ASAP - Slane is a heritage town and should not have a main road (major regional or national) going through it.

I *think* it will still have the N51 going through it, although the worst parts of it are closer to Navan and Drogheda.

veryangryman · 01-03-2017 8:46am

lucernarian wrote: »

I *think* it will still have the N51 going through it, although the worst parts of it are closer to Navan and Drogheda.

At least the N51 doesn't cross that god awful bridge. Wouldn't be the worst thing if it got left way it is. That said, good to future-proof

marno21 · 08-06-2017 3:45pm

In February 2017, Meath CoCo appointed RPS to progress the Slane Bypass scheme through Phases 1-4 of TII's Project Management Guidelines and TII's Project Appraisal Guidelines. The scheme has passed Phase I, the Feasibility Study stage.

RPS are now progressing the scheme through the Route Selection stage, within the following area: http://www.n2slanebypass.ie/MDT0806Arc0001A01%20Study%20Area%20.pdf

Further information @ www.n2slanebypass.ie

This won't be on the ground for another 4/5 years, assuming it gets past ABP this time.

marno21 · 28-08-2017 1:21pm

Tender gone out for ground investigation - likely to see a preferred route emerge soon

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=117778&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/publictenders

marno21 · 18-12-2017 8:39pm

Several routes have been identified for the N2 Slane bypass scheme:

http://n2slanebypass.ie/MDT0806GR0003D01%20A3%20PUBLIC%20CONSULTATION%20DAY%20NOV2017.pdf

One of the options involves no new road infrastructure, but traffic management centered around banning HGVs from the N2 or barrier free tolling of HGVs on the N2.

roadmaster · 18-12-2017 9:37pm

Best of luck telling CRH there trucks are going to be charged going back in to Dublin or try telling them to head to navan or drogheda to get to the city and see what happens.

Looking at the options E looks the most straight forward but I'd say it will be pricey between the earthworks and bridge.

Chris_5339762 · 18-12-2017 9:51pm

E please

D is just as ridiculous as A. Lets go straight through Slane Castle!!

duffman3833 · 19-12-2017 9:37am

i think G would be best, E is too close to the village, keep it away from it as much as possible. E is also to close to ledwidge cottage also which i cant see happening as there too many houses around the cottage. Another reason im against E is because when crossing the 'old' bridge i want to look down the river, not be looking at another bridge. There are many complications with all options i think, but E is a no go for me

roadmaster · 19-12-2017 1:42pm

Never mind the public hearing lets have a poll on boards,ie for the route and which ever wins TII should go with, it will save time and money:)

spacetweek · 19-12-2017 9:39pm

Build a complete circle so the N51 is bypassed too.

roadmaster · 19-12-2017 10:32pm

spacetweek wrote: »

Build a complete circle so the N51 is bypassed too.

Don't be making sensible ideas!

Middle Man · 19-12-2017 11:50pm

spacetweek wrote: »

Build a complete circle so the N51 is bypassed too.

An eastern bypass (N2) and southern link (N51) would suffice IMO.

roadmaster · 20-12-2017 12:45pm

Middle Man wrote: »

An eastern bypass (N2) and southern link (N51) would suffice IMO.

i wonder is there any plans for the N51 or will this solely be for the N2

sdanseo · 20-12-2017 9:21pm

spacetweek wrote: »

Build a complete circle so the N51 is bypassed too.

There are many towns in greater need of a ring road than Slane.

Kevwoody · 20-12-2017 9:34pm

sdanseo wrote:

There are many towns in greater need of a ring road than Slane.

Have you ever travelled through Slane?

sdanseo · 20-12-2017 9:44pm

Kevwoody wrote: »

Have you ever travelled through Slane?

Yes and it badly needs a North-South bypass. But not a complete ring road.

roadmaster · 20-12-2017 10:36pm

sdanseo wrote: »

Yes and it badly needs a North-South bypass. But not a complete ring road.

Maybe not a ring road but something along the lines that middleman said. The N51 is a major cross country route for HGV's. Getting the N51 HGV's out of slane is just as important

marno21 · 20-12-2017 11:43pm

At the minute, all indications are that this will be a simple north-south bypass with an N51 junction. An N51 link road/relief road is not seen as a priority at present.

Freddypaccman · 21-12-2017 1:56pm

What standard will it be?

marno21 · 21-12-2017 2:07pm

Freddypaccman wrote: »

What standard will it be?

Hasn't been decided yet but likely 2+2 or Type 1 single.

roadmaster · 21-12-2017 4:16pm

Marno you seam to be a man in the know . Do you think they will make an empressive looking bridge or will they keep it a low key to appease the likes of an taisce?

marno21 · 21-12-2017 8:42pm

roadmaster wrote: »

Marno you seam to be a man in the know . Do you think they will make an empressive looking bridge or will they keep it a low key to appease the likes of an taisce?

The minimum required bridge to maintain 100km/h running over the bridge I would imagine. Also would depend on which route is chosen.

Government policy going forward seems to be that the main road from Dublin to Derry will be the M1 to J14, N33 to Ardee & N2 to Derry. This reduces the requirement for high standard upgrades on the N2 between Ashbourne and Ardee.

Carawaystick · 30-12-2017 10:38pm

The N2 should be detrunked south of Ardee. Traffic on the M50 and in Dublin should be directed via M1 and N33. It's madness trying to have 2 high quality roads to within 7km of each other from Dublin.

Pay the truck tolls on the M1, they'd be much cheaper than a new road and its maintaninence with toll dodging trucks using the N2 to bypass the tolls

L1011 · 30-12-2017 10:53pm

Slane will need a new bridge even if that is done.

sdanseo · 30-12-2017 11:24pm

Carawaystick wrote: »

The N2 should be detrunked south of Ardee. Traffic on the M50 and in Dublin should be directed via M1 and N33. It's madness trying to have 2 high quality roads to within 7km of each other from Dublin.

Pay the truck tolls on the M1, they'd be much cheaper than a new road and its maintaninence with toll dodging trucks using the N2 to bypass the tolls

With the quality as well as general emptiness of the M2 to Ashbourne it's hard to see how de-trunking would actually encourage drivers to use the M1. I work in logistics and can tell you for sure that HGVs especially would have little or no interest, they are limited to 80-90km/h anyway so there is no speed gain for them with the extra distance. The M1 is also near capacity at peak and would also need 3 lanes to at least Drogheda (and probably all the way to Ardee) if all of the traffic from the M2/N2 was added to it.

Add in the long term goal of an outer orbital being needed which would probably cross the existing N2 somewhere north of Ashbourne. This could at a later date alleviate a lot of the need for east-west bypass of Slane but I don't think you're ever going to have a situation where the one-way bridge is sustainable; even if a good portion of the traffic could be persuaded to travel further east.

roadmaster · 31-12-2017 9:53am

As you say the M1 is hitting peak capacity especially south of drogheda so why do they want to divert all N2 traffic via N33 as mentioned on this thread and the Ardee thread. Would it not be best to spread the flow of traffic going in to Dublin instead of ramming it down a handful of arteries ?

marno21 · 31-12-2017 6:01pm

roadmaster wrote: »

As you say the M1 is hitting peak capacity especially south of drogheda so why do they want to divert all N2 traffic via N33 as mentioned on this thread and the Ardee thread. Would it not be best to spread the flow of traffic going in to Dublin instead of ramming it down a handful of arteries ?

M1 south of Balbriggan only has capacity issues southbound 7-9am and northbound 4:30-6:30pm. Outside of these hours there is no issue with the M1, it's simply commuter traffic.

Upgrading the N2 would cost a fortune when there are many bigger issues elsewhere (M20, N2/A5 north of Ardee, N21, N14 etc) and would simply create a toll free alternative to the M1 that would then become heavily congested.

The future plan for the N2 seems to be to upgrade north of Ardee to 2+2 and bypass Slane for safety reasons. The rest is to be left as is, and long distance N2 traffic is to use the N33 and the M1.

The cost of dualling the N2 from Ashbourne to Ardee doesn't really stand up when the alternatives are there and there are plenty of more deserving schemes waiting for funding.

sdanseo · 31-12-2017 6:36pm

roadmaster wrote: »

As you say the M1 is hitting peak capacity especially south of drogheda so why do they want to divert all N2 traffic via N33 as mentioned on this thread and the Ardee thread. Would it not be best to spread the flow of traffic going in to Dublin instead of ramming it down a handful of arteries ?

If you're asking if much more of the length of the N2 corridor should be upgraded, then no for the reasons Marno mentions below.

marno21 wrote: »

M1 south of Balbriggan only has capacity issues southbound 7-9am and northbound 4:30-6:30pm. Outside of these hours there is no issue with the M1, it's simply commuter traffic.

You could make the same argument for most motorways. Traffic volumes on the M50 are <100 pdph in the middle of the night. Congestion on the M1 happens at more than just peak times, I would use it a few times a month at various hours and there are huge volumes now throughout the day. The lack of a third lane can mean waiting several km for an overtaking opportunity. Even when the third lane comes, mind you, we will have the same issues whereby its effectiveness will be quite badly limited by the sheer number of drivers to whom lane discipline is an alien concept - but that is an education and enforcement problem and doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.

marno21 wrote: »

Upgrading the N2 would cost a fortune when there are many bigger issues elsewhere (M20, N2/A5 north of Ardee, N21, N14 etc) and would simply create a toll free alternative to the M1 that would then become heavily congested.

The future plan for the N2 seems to be to upgrade north of Ardee to 2+2 and bypass Slane for safety reasons. The rest is to be left as is, and long distance N2 traffic is to use the N33 and the M1.

The cost of dualling the N2 from Ashbourne to Ardee doesn't really stand up when the alternatives are there and there are plenty of more deserving schemes waiting for funding.

Agree completely. Focus is needed elsewhere, but I do think an outer orbital is further down the food chain than it should be. Mind you, fit for purpose public transport for Dublin should be an even higher priority, but that's drifting outside the remit of this thread.

N2 - Slane Bypass [planning decision pending]

Comments