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SRU trying to buy Worcester Warriors

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  • 17-12-2017 2:31pm
    #1
    vapor trails
    Registered Users Posts: 384 ✭✭


    So the Scottish Rugby Union is trying to by the Aviva Premiership club Worcester Warriors.

    I often thought to myself the IRFU should make an attempt to buy London Irish. I think Irish people and supporters might be galvanized better behind a team they know are owned by the IRFU. Also, it could be a way of getting second generation Irish people into a centrally controlled system which could end up with them being capped for Ireland. I know at one stage London Irish had the best average attendances for any club team in the UK. This leads me to believe they wouldn't be a black hole for money. If we had 5 teams (4 domestic provinces) and LI all pooling together for the benefit of Ireland as a whole it can only be a positive thing.


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    #2
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Any links?

    Surely if the SRU have that kind of money it would be better invested in relaunching the Border Reivers or keeping there players fr
    from going to France


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    #3
    The Lost Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭The Lost Sheep


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Any links?

    Surely if the SRU have that kind of money it would be better invested in relaunching the Border Reivers or keeping there players fr
    from going to France
    Would Borders be profitable/better use of funds?

    https://www.rugbypass.com/news/scottish-rugby-union-favourites-buy-worcester-warriors-reports/
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2017/12/17/scottish-attempt-invade-england-buying-worcester-signal-intent/


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    #4
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    The reason this won't float is that premiership rugby can and have fined clubs for releasing players to international sides outside of international windows.

    This limits the utility that the sru or IRFU would get from owning an English club.

    There's also bitterness from the IRFU towards London Irish. How can a club call itself Irish when it has encouraged players who are qualified for both Ireland and England to declare foe England.


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    #5
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    The reason this won't float is that premiership rugby can and have fined clubs for releasing players to international sides outside of international windows.

    This limits the utility that the sru or IRFU would get from owning an English club.

    There's also bitterness from the IRFU towards London Irish. How can a club call itself Irish when it has encouraged players who are qualified for both Ireland and England to declare foe England.

    Also I was listening to a Podcast about German Rugby and one of the issue they have is there are plenty of German qualified players but if they are capped by Germany they are no longer an English Qualified player and the club loses all manor of grants and they count as one of the the limited numbers of foreign players allowed.


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    #6
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    The reason this won't float is that premiership rugby can and have fined clubs for releasing players to international sides outside of international windows.

    This limits the utility that the sru or IRFU would get from owning an English club.

    There's also bitterness from the IRFU towards London Irish. How can a club call itself Irish when it has encouraged players who are qualified for both Ireland and England to declare foe England.

    The reason PRL fine clubs for releasing players is because they have an agreement with the RFU and they do not have an agreement with the WRU.

    If the SRU sign an agreement with PRL then it's no bother to them. Whether or not that's possible or how much PRL would want is another question, but if it meant investment into the Premiership then PRL may well be open to it.


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    #7
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 35,093 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Also I was listening to a Podcast about German Rugby and one of the issue they have is there are plenty of German qualified players but if they are capped by Germany they are no longer an English Qualified player and the club loses all manor of grants and they count as one of the the limited numbers of foreign players allowed.

    I can't make any sense of this.

    German teams get grants for having English qualified players and if a German player gets capped for Germany he's considered a foreign player in the German league?


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    #8
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,306 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    pickarooney wrote: »
    I can't make any sense of this.

    German teams get grants for having English qualified players and if a German player gets capped for Germany he's considered a foreign player in the German league?

    German qualified players in the Premiership (are there any!?) can't play for Germany I guess it the point. Or even in the Championship?


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    #9
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    German qualified players in the Premiership (are there any!?) can't play for Germany I guess it the point. Or even in the Championship?

    English players born in Germany.

    A lot of English people were born in Germany due to the permanent deployment of British army in Germany.

    For example since 2006 4 German born players have played for England in rugby.

    A few years ago there was discussion of mass recruitment of German born British players (someone produced a list of 20 players who were at least in the championship). Fortunately or unfortunately these players enmasse turned down German representation. Either because the international appearance fee was too low or because it would alienate their clubs to play tier iii international rugby.

    Not sure what grants he is talking about though.


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    #10
    Burkie1203
    Registered Users Posts: 11,131 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    LeinsterDub wrote: »
    Any links?

    Surely if the SRU have that kind of money it would be better invested in relaunching the Border Reivers or keeping there players fr
    from going to France

    Borders were getting crowds in the hundreds. Buy an AP side and the income is far greater so the cost base is far lower to SRU.


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    #11
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,306 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    English players born in Germany.

    A lot of English people were born in Germany due to the permanent deployment of British army in Germany.

    For example since 2006 4 German born players have played for England in rugby.

    A few years ago there was discussion of mass recruitment of German born British players (someone produced a list of 20 players who were at least in the championship). Fortunately or unfortunately these players enmasse turned down German representation. Either because the international appearance fee was too low or because it would alienate their clubs to play tier iii international rugby.

    Not sure what grants he is talking about though.

    Hmmm...they are not really German players though are they. Do they even qualify by WR rules? I wouldn't have much sympathy for that viewpoint to be honest. They could have refused for any number of reasons - not least of being they aren't German.


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    #12
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    Hmmm...they are not really German players though are they. Do they even qualify by WR rules? I wouldn't have much sympathy for that viewpoint to be honest. They could have refused for any number of reasons - not least of being they aren't German.

    German born and qualified.

    I agree with you though the fact that they dont feel German most likely has more to do with it than anything.


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    #13
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    pickarooney wrote: »
    I can't make any sense of this.

    German teams get grants for having English qualified players and if a German player gets capped for Germany he's considered a foreign player in the German league?

    No. English teams have German qualified players. If those players declare for Germany it has a negative effect on the club.


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    #14
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    .

    Not sure what grants he is talking about though.

    https://media.acast.com/therugbydungeon/ep-68mouritzbotha/media.mp3

    Have a listen.


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    #15
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

    Not sure what grants he is talking about though.

    The RFU funding, which is huge, is based on having players in the EPS. But its almost impossible to lose out on that money.

    However there are also salary cap credits to be gained from producing EQ players in your academy and those are valuable for bigger sides who are at the cap.


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    #16
    KBurke85
    Registered Users Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭KBurke85


    vapor trails wrote: »
    So the Scottish Rugby Union is trying to by the Aviva Premiership club Worcester Warriors.

    I often thought to myself the IRFU should make an attempt to buy London Irish. I think Irish people and supporters might be galvanized better behind a team they know are owned by the IRFU. Also, it could be a way of getting second generation Irish people into a centrally controlled system which could end up with them being capped for Ireland. I know at one stage London Irish had the best average attendances for any club team in the UK. This leads me to believe they wouldn't be a black hole for money. If we had 5 teams (4 domestic provinces) and LI all pooling together for the benefit of Ireland as a whole it can only be a positive thing.

    Why the IRFU already own 4 teams


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    #17
    vapor trails
    Registered Users Posts: 384 ✭✭vapor trails


    KBurke85 wrote: »
    Why the IRFU already own 4 teams

    That question sounds like you think 4 is the optimal number. Maybe it is..Why do you think so ?


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    #18
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,011 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    vapor trails wrote: »
    That question sounds like you think 4 is the optimal number. Maybe it is..Why do you think so ?
    They can't afford it. Things aren't as bad now as when they were going to drop Connacht, but it's a battle to keep up with wage demands and competition for players from France and England.


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    #19
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    They can't afford it. Things aren't as bad now as when they were going to drop Connacht, but it's a battle to keep up with wage demands and competition for players from France and England.

    The reason a player moves to England is because they get stupid wages. This is because the TV money is massive. The issue is the players are getting more money but the clubs are just going further and further into debt.

    IRFU has 4 clubs which they own, they get a Premiership club and they would be expected to pay Premiership wages which means the TV is all wasted on wages so they don't come out with profit. Why would they bother?

    They would be better going to Australian Rugby Union. Put a tie in to allow Irish players to move down to a club and maybe some Aussies players up here but they can still play for Australia for international.

    The Australian would get better wages when moving up here, Irish players would get a chance to play in southern hemp. Also they could try and mop up between them all the second generation Irish which will be around soon down there.....that would make more sense

    Give it a couple of seasons and the Aviva Premiership will go the way of the English second tier soccer divisions, TV money drys up and they all go bust


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    #20
    Squidgy Black
    Registered Users Posts: 21,605 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    The money needed to survive in the AP far outweighs the income from the TV sponsorship.

    It would cost the IRFU and absolute fortune to take over someone like London Irish and build up a stronger squad.

    Do we really want to see money invested abroad rather than at home in our 4 provinces? For what gain too?


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    #21
    FrannoFan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,358 ✭✭✭FrannoFan


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    The reason a player moves to England is because they get stupid wages. This is because the TV money is massive. The issue is the players are getting more money but the clubs are just going further and further into debt.

    IRFU has 4 clubs which they own, they get a Premiership club and they would be expected to pay Premiership wages which means the TV is all wasted on wages so they don't come out with profit. Why would they bother?

    They would be better going to Australian Rugby Union. Put a tie in to allow Irish players to move down to a club and maybe some Aussies players up here but they can still play for Australia for international.

    The Australian would get better wages when moving up here, Irish players would get a chance to play in southern hemp. Also they could try and mop up between them all the second generation Irish which will be around soon down there.....that would make more sense

    Give it a couple of seasons and the Aviva Premiership will go the way of the English second tier soccer divisions, TV money drys up and they all go bust

    but this is the top division and the premier league TV money has anything but dried up!


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    #22
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,011 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    The reason a player moves to England is because they get stupid wages. This is because the TV money is massive. The issue is the players are getting more money but the clubs are just going further and further into debt.

    IRFU has 4 clubs which they own, they get a Premiership club and they would be expected to pay Premiership wages which means the TV is all wasted on wages so they don't come out with profit. Why would they bother?

    They would be better going to Australian Rugby Union. Put a tie in to allow Irish players to move down to a club and maybe some Aussies players up here but they can still play for Australia for international.

    The Australian would get better wages when moving up here, Irish players would get a chance to play in southern hemp. Also they could try and mop up between them all the second generation Irish which will be around soon down there.....that would make more sense

    Give it a couple of seasons and the Aviva Premiership will go the way of the English second tier soccer divisions, TV money drys up and they all go bust
    Not sure why you are replying to me here? :confused:


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    #23
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    FrannoFan wrote: »
    but this is the top division and the premier league TV money has anything but dried up!

    I am referring to the magical money that UTV/ITV offered to broadcast the league outside of the Ppermier League. It went bang and so did a load of clubs. The clubs had spent the money based on expectations, not on what they actually had in the bank.

    I can't see BT maintaining the money they are giving to the Aviva Premiership, the return is not enought.

    The Premier League for Sky is a different story and the Worldwide resale value is huge. How many countries have asked to buy the right to show the Aviva Permiership?


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