Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread II

One would wonder, has Mueller taken out some 'insurance' to prevent himself from being dismissed.
Not sure how Trump can sack him as, that is up to the Deputy Attorney General.

I think this e-mail story is actually pretty big. It seems that Mueller had access to all the e-mails from the transition team, not covered by POTUS priv as not technically POTUS and it appears that Team Trump didn't know the Mueller had got them and felt he was merely asking them questions about possibles rather than checking if they were lying about actuals.

Hence the letter to congress to complain and try to make out that the access to the e-mails was incorrect. The normal process for this would be to go to court over something like this, why are they leaking it by way of a letter to congress?

As has been pointed out, if nothing to hide why are they even worried about how he got them?

Me thinks they know there is plenty in those e-mails which shows they lied to Mueller and possibly to congress. Even if nothing else is ever found that is pretty serious stuff right there.

Mueller also of course has Flynn and Papadopolous to back up the veracity of the e-mails and actions that came out of them.

Leroy42 wrote: »

I think this e-mail story is actually pretty big. It seems that Mueller had access to all the e-mails from the transition team, not covered by POTUS priv as not technically POTUS and it appears that Team Trump didn't know the Mueller had got them and felt he was merely asking them questions about possibles rather than checking if they were lying about actuals.

Hence the letter to congress to complain and try to make out that the access to the e-mails was incorrect. The normal process for this would be to go to court over something like this, why are they leaking it by way of a letter to congress?

As has been pointed out, if nothing to hide why are they even worried about how he got them?

Me thinks they know there is plenty in those e-mails which shows they lied to Mueller and possibly to congress. Even if nothing else is ever found that is pretty serious stuff right there.

Mueller also of course has Flynn and Papadopolous to back up the veracity of the e-mails and actions that came out of them.

Even with the minimum of collusion in the mails, there might be details of arrangements made with supporters included which if revealed would be busters. Plus "Canuck-letter" tactics to harm the HRC campaign.

Edit.. Don Trump on the emails and Muelller..... https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/mueller-unlawfully-obtained-emails-trump-transition-team-says/2017/12/16/6162f350-e2cc-11e7-8679-a9728984779c_story.html

Water John wrote: »

One would wonder, has Mueller taken out some 'insurance' to prevent himself from being dismissed.
Not sure how Trump can sack him as, that is up to the Deputy Attorney General.

I am pretty sure that Mueller will have taken steps to ensure the work done is not wasted and will continue in the event of his sacking. It has to be something that has crossed his mind and can be gamed out.

It is actually pathetic though isn't it, this day and age. The WH consistently lie, Fox who have been pushing for a total disbandment of the FBI continue to give you a modern example of propaganda on state TV levels that Goebbels would be proud of.

There are literally dozens of complicit publicly elected representatives who are happy to sell out their constituents. Who are happy to do the exact opposite of what they are elected to do.

There is no accountability, SHS bats away question after question, and it is just accepted. There is no proper attempt to pin her down or at least drop the nice facade and just speak from the heart on things, call the bull**** as its seen.

Barefaced liars will continue to lie once they will get away with it, you can be shocked at how people can say things with a straight face but they will continue to do it as long as you let them. What is wrong with calling someone a liar to their face these days? Civility needs a reality check at times. Of course there is call for violence or anything of the sort from me but the facade needs to be dropped.

If Mueller does go, and I believe he will at some point, I think the AG will go also, and the Deputy AG, then surely you need no further evidence of wrongdoing. The blatant attempts to hinder and deal dishonestly with the investigation would be shocking if it were not such a continuing trend. They will not hold their hands up and admit any fault, there are lives and careers on the line here. This is a fight to the death basically and it will be messy.

Hold people to account, that is all. Do that and the rest will follow.

Oh, and the reason they went to congress and made it public rather then take it to court if they thought there was anything actually improper is that they understand the game they are playing. They cannot win in a legal sense (or thats exactly what they would do) but they can win the public relations battle, they can muddy the waters, they can inspire a generation of idiots to repeat the rhetoric without fact checking, because they know their audience.

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

For all the folks worrying that Mueller will be fired, I think there is a more likely outcome which is even worse.

Mueller will present proof that Trump colluded illegally, and the Republicans in Congress will simply dismiss it. The stories trying to discredit Mueller don't have to be softening him up for firing, they could be groundwork for just tossing his report in the wastepaper basket unread.

Yes, that is very much a path they are following. Fox news has spent the last few days totally discrediting the FBI. Trump himself has discredited the CIA already. Its actually pretty sickening to hear these people bleat on about the vets and the military and first responders and then go on to claim that the FBI, an integral part of the security of the nation, is a corrupt mess.

All of this screams that there are issues, never mind the guilty plea of Flynn and the charging of Manafort.

But Mueller seems to be going the legal route, I don't think he is focused on the report to congress.

Leroy42 wrote: »

But Mueller seems to be going the legal route, I don't think he is focused on the report to congress.

He can't get Trump that way. If all he does is pick off a few officials and family members, Trump gets away with it.

Leroy42 wrote: »

Perhaps, but then am I right in thinking that they only got Noxon because of the tapes, up till then he could claim he had nothing directly to do with it?

On the basis that I am right (always shaky ground!) then I actually doubt that Mueller will actually ever get anything directly linking Trump to collusion. There won't be an e-mail from Trump to Putin thanking him for collusion!

So the best way is to pick apart the rest of the team, and as in the case of Flynn, get them to turn. We still don't know what Flynn has told him for example. All we know is that Flynn seems to have gotten a pretty good deal.

Take Kushner down and the sparks will really start to fly. Which side does Ivanka go with, continued defence of her Dad, or try to help her husband and father of her children?

How long will the likes of KAC and SHS continue to put themselves at risk of lying to cover for a man that seems only focused on saving himself.

Will Pence get dragged into it, as at that point the current plan of keeping Trump as an GOP outsider falls down as Pence is a true GOP. What will the GOP do then? Do they back Pence or Trump?

I think Trump Jnr is the key. Seems like the weakest link. If Jnr takes a hammering then The Donald will have to try to take responsibility in order to protect him. Or he might throw him under the bus.

Leroy42 wrote: »

Jebus, I forgot all about Trump Jr.

You are of course right. That will throw up a very interesting position. Should Trump Jr be charged (which to me seems way past its due date at this stage) what does Trump do?

Trump Jr is not connected to the WH as such, so what would be the reason for a pardon?

If he pardons Jr, why not Flynn? But Flynn has already done the damage and pardon simply removes the threat of a conviction, it does not remove the need to tell the truth under oath. And what does he pardon him for? Can a pardon simply cover everything? Otherwise he will need to be specific.

And why no Papadopolous? And Manafort? We are really getting into quite a number at this stage. Which then begs the question; does working for Trump make you immune from the law? How will that sit with the GOP party and voters?

A sitting POTUS pardoning his son would be like something from the Roman Empire. Mind you, comparisons between Trump and Caligula are surprisingly numerous.

I think hope that pretty soon the GOP will start to think of damage limitation and self-preservation especially with elections looming. This investigation is beginning to stink for Trump. Maybe they're beginning to think how they can dump him - e.g. ill health - and have a coronation of a proper GOP politician i.e. Pence.

“Great guy but I never met him” :pac:

Billy86 wrote: »

Fox news going even further with the unashamed propaganda: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/12/18/a-coup-in-america-fox-news-escalates-anti-mueller-rhetoric/?__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true&tid=sm_tw&utm_term=.f912bc28b77a



I'm really leaning more and more towards some influential players at FOX having something that really needs hiding at this point.

I think they're feeling the heat from the likes of Breitbart and think that they have to respond accordingly.

So now Trump sees an expanded role for nuclear weapons. I'll refer again to the people in here who told us HRC was bent on starting WW3.

Billy86 wrote: »

Fox news going even further with the unashamed propaganda: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/12/18/a-coup-in-america-fox-news-escalates-anti-mueller-rhetoric/?__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true&tid=sm_tw&utm_term=.f912bc28b77a



I'm really leaning more and more towards some influential players at FOX having something that really needs hiding at this point.

The WSJ has also come out massively for the firing of Mueller even using dark Facebook posts. The commonality is Rupert Murdoch.
If one looks at the roles Mercer, Bannon, Russia played in Trump and Brexit one must look at the role of Murdoch.
His publications have followed the exact angles and tropes of the axis. I have not seen any analysis of this role by other media. For example, newscorp were clients of Paul Manaforts PR/connections firm...this should be significant.
RW media in UK were seemingly complicit in Goddard Gunsters media plans for Leave.eu themes. Cambridge Analytica, Bannon etc heavily involved there (with Russia as FBI investigates).
If you look at the Surkovian setup of the axis on social media: Fake BLM accounts, fake GOP accounts, fake everything to create and control an alternative reality.
But what of the fake resistance? Murdoch employee Louise Menssch heads a group on twitter called 'team patriot' a group of far right who control a block list of half a million users (including many left wing activists). 'Team Patriot' thus attempts to control the 'anti' Trump narrative. Some of the theories of thsi group fall decidedly into the category of nonsense. This sets up a situation where Trump 'critics' can be dismissed.
She may be unwitting but the effect of this group should not be dismissed as coincidence given the very deliberate Surkovian setup on social media missing only a fake resistance.
If we eventually get the 9/11 scale inquiry into all of this, the role of Murdoch will be far more significant than portrayed now. My opinion only.

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

For all the folks worrying that Mueller will be fired, I think there is a more likely outcome which is even worse.

Has there any been any creditable sources saying he would fire him or is it pure speculation?

And no that Seth Abramson Mensch clone does not count.