nav[aria-label="Primary Navigation"] { padding: 0; & ul { list-style: none; width: 100%; display: flex; flex-direction: row; justify-content: start; align-items: start; gap: 30px; padding: 0; & li { margin: 0; } & ul li { list-style: none; } } }

Child Item

Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread II

ancapailldorcha

This thread is for discussing Donald Trumps's presidency in the US and any related matters.

Please ensure that you are familiar with the charter before posting.

Thanks.

Find more posts tagged with

Quick Links

Comments

Water John

One would wonder, has Mueller taken out some 'insurance' to prevent himself from being dismissed.
Not sure how Trump can sack him as, that is up to the Deputy Attorney General.

aloyisious

Water John wrote: »

One would wonder, has Mueller taken out some 'insurance' to prevent himself from being dismissed.
Not sure how Trump can sack him as, that is up to the Deputy Attorney General.

True enough. The notion to the sensible few in the Admin [and the 2nd in charge at the DOJ] that some-one might get their [email] retaliation leak in first if there was a real chance of a firing might be scary enough to wise Don up. Mueller was in the FBI and close enough to it's ex-director to hear office facts.[/email]

Leroy42

I think this e-mail story is actually pretty big. It seems that Mueller had access to all the e-mails from the transition team, not covered by POTUS priv as not technically POTUS and it appears that Team Trump didn't know the Mueller had got them and felt he was merely asking them questions about possibles rather than checking if they were lying about actuals.

Hence the letter to congress to complain and try to make out that the access to the e-mails was incorrect. The normal process for this would be to go to court over something like this, why are they leaking it by way of a letter to congress?

As has been pointed out, if nothing to hide why are they even worried about how he got them?

Me thinks they know there is plenty in those e-mails which shows they lied to Mueller and possibly to congress. Even if nothing else is ever found that is pretty serious stuff right there.

Mueller also of course has Flynn and Papadopolous to back up the veracity of the e-mails and actions that came out of them.

everlast75

Surprised it wasn't mentioned here but I heard a segment on the radio from one of Trump's rallies that he brought up the possibility of pardoning Flynn...

aloyisious

Leroy42 wrote: »

I think this e-mail story is actually pretty big. It seems that Mueller had access to all the e-mails from the transition team, not covered by POTUS priv as not technically POTUS and it appears that Team Trump didn't know the Mueller had got them and felt he was merely asking them questions about possibles rather than checking if they were lying about actuals.

Hence the letter to congress to complain and try to make out that the access to the e-mails was incorrect. The normal process for this would be to go to court over something like this, why are they leaking it by way of a letter to congress?

As has been pointed out, if nothing to hide why are they even worried about how he got them?

Me thinks they know there is plenty in those e-mails which shows they lied to Mueller and possibly to congress. Even if nothing else is ever found that is pretty serious stuff right there.

Mueller also of course has Flynn and Papadopolous to back up the veracity of the e-mails and actions that came out of them.

Even with the minimum of collusion in the mails, there might be details of arrangements made with supporters included which if revealed would be busters. Plus "Canuck-letter" tactics to harm the HRC campaign.

Edit.. Don Trump on the emails and Muelller..... https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/mueller-unlawfully-obtained-emails-trump-transition-team-says/2017/12/16/6162f350-e2cc-11e7-8679-a9728984779c_story.html

aloyisious

Washington Post 41 minutes ago.... https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/mccain-battling-brain-cancer-leaves-washington-for-christmas-break-before-contentious-vote-on-tax-bill/2017/12/17/5dd61326-e37a-11e7-833f-155031558ff4_story.html

Cancer is such a **** I hope the GOP has the decency to leave him alone with his famikly for the break.

StringerBell

Water John wrote: »

One would wonder, has Mueller taken out some 'insurance' to prevent himself from being dismissed.
Not sure how Trump can sack him as, that is up to the Deputy Attorney General.

I am pretty sure that Mueller will have taken steps to ensure the work done is not wasted and will continue in the event of his sacking. It has to be something that has crossed his mind and can be gamed out.

It is actually pathetic though isn't it, this day and age. The WH consistently lie, Fox who have been pushing for a total disbandment of the FBI continue to give you a modern example of propaganda on state TV levels that Goebbels would be proud of.

There are literally dozens of complicit publicly elected representatives who are happy to sell out their constituents. Who are happy to do the exact opposite of what they are elected to do.

There is no accountability, SHS bats away question after question, and it is just accepted. There is no proper attempt to pin her down or at least drop the nice facade and just speak from the heart on things, call the bull**** as its seen.

Barefaced liars will continue to lie once they will get away with it, you can be shocked at how people can say things with a straight face but they will continue to do it as long as you let them. What is wrong with calling someone a liar to their face these days? Civility needs a reality check at times. Of course there is call for violence or anything of the sort from me but the facade needs to be dropped.

If Mueller does go, and I believe he will at some point, I think the AG will go also, and the Deputy AG, then surely you need no further evidence of wrongdoing. The blatant attempts to hinder and deal dishonestly with the investigation would be shocking if it were not such a continuing trend. They will not hold their hands up and admit any fault, there are lives and careers on the line here. This is a fight to the death basically and it will be messy.

Hold people to account, that is all. Do that and the rest will follow.

Oh, and the reason they went to congress and made it public rather then take it to court if they thought there was anything actually improper is that they understand the game they are playing. They cannot win in a legal sense (or thats exactly what they would do) but they can win the public relations battle, they can muddy the waters, they can inspire a generation of idiots to repeat the rhetoric without fact checking, because they know their audience.

Zubeneschamali

For all the folks worrying that Mueller will be fired, I think there is a more likely outcome which is even worse.

Mueller will present proof that Trump colluded illegally, and the Republicans in Congress will simply dismiss it. The stories trying to discredit Mueller don't have to be softening him up for firing, they could be groundwork for just tossing his report in the wastepaper basket unread.

Leroy42

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

For all the folks worrying that Mueller will be fired, I think there is a more likely outcome which is even worse.

Mueller will present proof that Trump colluded illegally, and the Republicans in Congress will simply dismiss it. The stories trying to discredit Mueller don't have to be softening him up for firing, they could be groundwork for just tossing his report in the wastepaper basket unread.

Yes, that is very much a path they are following. Fox news has spent the last few days totally discrediting the FBI. Trump himself has discredited the CIA already. Its actually pretty sickening to hear these people bleat on about the vets and the military and first responders and then go on to claim that the FBI, an integral part of the security of the nation, is a corrupt mess.

All of this screams that there are issues, never mind the guilty plea of Flynn and the charging of Manafort.

But Mueller seems to be going the legal route, I don't think he is focused on the report to congress.

Infini

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

For all the folks worrying that Mueller will be fired, I think there is a more likely outcome which is even worse.

Mueller will present proof that Trump colluded illegally, and the Republicans in Congress will simply dismiss it. The stories trying to discredit Mueller don't have to be softening him up for firing, they could be groundwork for just tossing his report in the wastepaper basket unread.

While its one possibility I dont think this will be so likely expecially after Alabama. Should the republicans ignore Muellers investigation it would be the biggest gift to the Democrats who would do something about president troll should they win the November Midterms. It should also be noted that Trumps approval is dropping close to 30%. Should it drop below that mark it would be toxic even for the Republicans.

Zubeneschamali

Leroy42 wrote: »

But Mueller seems to be going the legal route, I don't think he is focused on the report to congress.

He can't get Trump that way. If all he does is pick off a few officials and family members, Trump gets away with it.

Leroy42

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

He can't get Trump that way. If all he does is pick off a few officials and family members, Trump gets away with it.

Perhaps, but then am I right in thinking that they only got Noxon because of the tapes, up till then he could claim he had nothing directly to do with it?

On the basis that I am right (always shaky ground!) then I actually doubt that Mueller will actually ever get anything directly linking Trump to collusion. There won't be an e-mail from Trump to Putin thanking him for collusion!

So the best way is to pick apart the rest of the team, and as in the case of Flynn, get them to turn. We still don't know what Flynn has told him for example. All we know is that Flynn seems to have gotten a pretty good deal.

Take Kushner down and the sparks will really start to fly. Which side does Ivanka go with, continued defence of her Dad, or try to help her husband and father of her children?

How long will the likes of KAC and SHS continue to put themselves at risk of lying to cover for a man that seems only focused on saving himself.

Will Pence get dragged into it, as at that point the current plan of keeping Trump as an GOP outsider falls down as Pence is a true GOP. What will the GOP do then? Do they back Pence or Trump?

There are a few things working in Trumps favour. !st he is POTUS and that in itself is a major defence.
2nd, GOP wants to get through a few things, notably Tax. That looks likely to go through shortly and at that point how valuable is Trump and his continued issues?
3rd, his supporters are not interested in the truth and willing to ascribe anything troubling as fake news. But these numbers continue to decline and at some point they will hit the tipping point where they no longer need to be considered.

Professor Moriarty

Leroy42 wrote: »

Perhaps, but then am I right in thinking that they only got Noxon because of the tapes, up till then he could claim he had nothing directly to do with it?

On the basis that I am right (always shaky ground!) then I actually doubt that Mueller will actually ever get anything directly linking Trump to collusion. There won't be an e-mail from Trump to Putin thanking him for collusion!

So the best way is to pick apart the rest of the team, and as in the case of Flynn, get them to turn. We still don't know what Flynn has told him for example. All we know is that Flynn seems to have gotten a pretty good deal.

Take Kushner down and the sparks will really start to fly. Which side does Ivanka go with, continued defence of her Dad, or try to help her husband and father of her children?

How long will the likes of KAC and SHS continue to put themselves at risk of lying to cover for a man that seems only focused on saving himself.

Will Pence get dragged into it, as at that point the current plan of keeping Trump as an GOP outsider falls down as Pence is a true GOP. What will the GOP do then? Do they back Pence or Trump?

I think Trump Jnr is the key. Seems like the weakest link. If Jnr takes a hammering then The Donald will have to try to take responsibility in order to protect him. Or he might throw him under the bus.

Leroy42

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I think Trump Jnr is the key. Seems like the weakest link. If Jnr takes a hammering then The Donald will have to try to take responsibility in order to protect him. Or he might throw him under the bus.

Jebus, I forgot all about Trump Jr.

You are of course right. That will throw up a very interesting position. Should Trump Jr be charged (which to me seems way past its due date at this stage) what does Trump do?

Trump Jr is not connected to the WH as such, so what would be the reason for a pardon?

If he pardons Jr, why not Flynn? But Flynn has already done the damage and pardon simply removes the threat of a conviction, it does not remove the need to tell the truth under oath. And what does he pardon him for? Can a pardon simply cover everything? Otherwise he will need to be specific.

And why no Papadopolous? And Manafort? We are really getting into quite a number at this stage. Which then begs the question; does working for Trump make you immune from the law? How will that sit with the GOP party and voters?

Professor Moriarty

Leroy42 wrote: »

Jebus, I forgot all about Trump Jr.

You are of course right. That will throw up a very interesting position. Should Trump Jr be charged (which to me seems way past its due date at this stage) what does Trump do?

Trump Jr is not connected to the WH as such, so what would be the reason for a pardon?

If he pardons Jr, why not Flynn? But Flynn has already done the damage and pardon simply removes the threat of a conviction, it does not remove the need to tell the truth under oath. And what does he pardon him for? Can a pardon simply cover everything? Otherwise he will need to be specific.

And why no Papadopolous? And Manafort? We are really getting into quite a number at this stage. Which then begs the question; does working for Trump make you immune from the law? How will that sit with the GOP party and voters?

A sitting POTUS pardoning his son would be like something from the Roman Empire. Mind you, comparisons between Trump and Caligula are surprisingly numerous.

I think hope that pretty soon the GOP will start to think of damage limitation and self-preservation especially with elections looming. This investigation is beginning to stink for Trump. Maybe they're beginning to think how they can dump him - e.g. ill health - and have a coronation of a proper GOP politician i.e. Pence.

Zubeneschamali

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

If Jnr takes a hammering then The Donald will have to try to take responsibility in order to protect him. Or he might throw him under the bus.

Wouldn't cost Trump a moments thought. Junior was never closely associated with the family, he was only distantly related, in fact, I never met him before.

MadYaker

“Great guy but I never met him” :pac:

Billy86

Fox news going even further with the unashamed propaganda: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/12/18/a-coup-in-america-fox-news-escalates-anti-mueller-rhetoric/?__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true&tid=sm_tw&utm_term=.f912bc28b77a

“Secret surveillance, wiretapping, intimidation, harassment and threats. It’s like the old KGB that comes for you in the dark of the night banging through your door.” Hannity assured viewers “this is not hyperbole you are using here.” Tom Fitton, president of the conservative organization Judicial Watch, made the same comparison on Fox News on Wednesday, saying, “Forget about shutting down Mr. Mueller. Do we need to shut down the FBI because it was turned into a KGB-type operation by the Obama administration?”

Apparently these strong words weren’t strong enough. Saturday night, Fox suggested that the Mueller probe might be “a coup in America.”

I'm really leaning more and more towards some influential players at FOX having something that really needs hiding at this point.

Quin_Dub

Billy86 wrote: »

Fox news going even further with the unashamed propaganda: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/12/18/a-coup-in-america-fox-news-escalates-anti-mueller-rhetoric/?__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true&tid=sm_tw&utm_term=.f912bc28b77a

I'm really leaning more and more towards some influential players at FOX having something that really needs hiding at this point.

Fox have certainly gone all in with Trump here.

They'll fall or rise with him , that's for certain.

If Trump does crash and burn hard to see Fox being able to de-couple themselves from it..

Equally though , if he continues on for the next 4-8 years they are set fair..

Very big bet to make though..

ancapailldorcha

MadYaker wrote: »

“Great guy but I never met him” :pac:

Less of the one liners and smileys please.

Professor Moriarty

Billy86 wrote: »

Fox news going even further with the unashamed propaganda: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/12/18/a-coup-in-america-fox-news-escalates-anti-mueller-rhetoric/?__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true&tid=sm_tw&utm_term=.f912bc28b77a

I'm really leaning more and more towards some influential players at FOX having something that really needs hiding at this point.

I think they're feeling the heat from the likes of Breitbart and think that they have to respond accordingly.

aloyisious

Looking back at Vlad's "thank you" yesterday to the CIA on it's warning to Russia about the St Petersburg plot, I'm waiting for the speech RTE spoke about early today that Don is supposed to give to an US Intelligence Event confirming that Russia and China did attack the US as reported by the US Intelligence community.

jooksavage

So now Trump sees an expanded role for nuclear weapons. I'll refer again to the people in here who told us HRC was bent on starting WW3.

Manic Moran

20Cent wrote: »

Hi Manic. Do you have much choice regarding ISP services? Much competition? As far as I have read there are a lot of places in the US where there isn't much choice.

Although I was only aware of three, apparently my town is served by 21 ISPs if a business, 9 ISPs provide residential services,

https://broadbandnow.com/California/Dublin

It would appear that the earlier CDC report was misleading. Not that it says much for the congressfolks concerned, but apparently it was a list of recommendations on how to speak to congressmen, the reports themselves can say whatever the authors want.

National Security Strategy seems reasonable enough, if it is appropriately funded, at least.

Same with the NASA talk. Cautious optimism from that quarter. All down to money.

Manic Moran

Ipad doubl post.

FreudianSlippers

Manic Moran wrote: »

Although I was only aware of three, apparently my town is served by 21 ISPs if a business, 9 ISPs provide residential services,

https://broadbandnow.com/California/Dublin

It would appear that the earlier CDC report was misleading. Not that it says much for the congressfolks concerned, but apparently it was a list of recommendations on how to speak to congressmen, the reports themselves can say whatever the authors want.

National Security Strategy seems reasonable enough, if it is appropriately funded, at least.

Same with the NASA talk. Cautious optimism from that quarter. All down to money.

That being said, if you want actual quick internet you only have Comcast as your choice.

demfad

Billy86 wrote: »

Fox news going even further with the unashamed propaganda: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/12/18/a-coup-in-america-fox-news-escalates-anti-mueller-rhetoric/?__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true&__twitter_impression=true&tid=sm_tw&utm_term=.f912bc28b77a

I'm really leaning more and more towards some influential players at FOX having something that really needs hiding at this point.

The WSJ has also come out massively for the firing of Mueller even using dark Facebook posts. The commonality is Rupert Murdoch.
If one looks at the roles Mercer, Bannon, Russia played in Trump and Brexit one must look at the role of Murdoch.
His publications have followed the exact angles and tropes of the axis. I have not seen any analysis of this role by other media. For example, newscorp were clients of Paul Manaforts PR/connections firm...this should be significant.
RW media in UK were seemingly complicit in Goddard Gunsters media plans for Leave.eu themes. Cambridge Analytica, Bannon etc heavily involved there (with Russia as FBI investigates).
If you look at the Surkovian setup of the axis on social media: Fake BLM accounts, fake GOP accounts, fake everything to create and control an alternative reality.
But what of the fake resistance? Murdoch employee Louise Menssch heads a group on twitter called 'team patriot' a group of far right who control a block list of half a million users (including many left wing activists). 'Team Patriot' thus attempts to control the 'anti' Trump narrative. Some of the theories of thsi group fall decidedly into the category of nonsense. This sets up a situation where Trump 'critics' can be dismissed.
She may be unwitting but the effect of this group should not be dismissed as coincidence given the very deliberate Surkovian setup on social media missing only a fake resistance.
If we eventually get the 9/11 scale inquiry into all of this, the role of Murdoch will be far more significant than portrayed now. My opinion only.

aloyisious

This W/P report might be wishful thinking or misreading of scuttlebutt and seeing as "off the cuff" speaking is Don's way of relieving stress and putting it on others, it's basis is probably fake and worthless,,,,, but wow, Christmas is near!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-reportedly-considered-rescinding-gorsuchs-nomination/2017/12/18/ad2b3b68-e1c7-11e7-9eb6-e3c7ecfb4638_story.html

Question: if he has been confirmed and has been sitting on USSC bench since April 2017, how could Don rescind the nomination?

Rjd2

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

For all the folks worrying that Mueller will be fired, I think there is a more likely outcome which is even worse.

Has there any been any creditable sources saying he would fire him or is it pure speculation?

And no that Seth Abramson Mensch clone does not count.

Leroy42

Rjd2 wrote: »

Has there any been any creditable sources saying he would fire him or is it pure speculation?

And no that Seth Abramson Mensch clone does not count.

Creditable source? Trump said that he would fire him if he crossed a line (which he, at the time stated was looking into his finances).

We also have, from Trump himself, the admission that he fired Comey over the Russian Thing.

So, as far as I know, it is speculation at this point, but not simply based on nothing. Then you tie in the massive attacks on both Mueller and the FBI over the last number of days and you can spot a pattern.

Trump is not a particularly difficult person to read