Should unkel sell his Ioniq?

unkel · 13-12-2017 12:32AM #1

Shock horror! Now I got your attention

Toying with this mad idea the past few weeks. Due to a perfect storm, I bought my Ioniq last January at a very good price. Back then it wasn't known the car would be in short supply so I was able to negotiate a strong discount (after already getting €4k off for scrapping my end of life car). Ioniq is a great car for the money and costs virtually nothing once you have paid for the car, but here's the thing.

I would probably get pretty much the full price I paid for it back next January. I'm under no illusion that the car will remain depreciation free after that

Now if I sold it (for good money) and bought something else to keep for say 2 years (we are talking 2020 then), I would be able to buy another EV. Maybe a Tesla Model 3, Model S, long range Ioniq, or even something from VW group or BMW at that stage

In the meantime an eGolf would be too small and too expensive (family of 5), that rules out the Zoe and i3 too and the Leaf doesn't pass this household's aesthetics test

So no EV then.

How about an Outlander PHEV? Should be able to pick up a '15 early next year for about £13k as there will be loads of them coming off lease in the UK. I would import the car myself. I know the battery is under 10kWh, they only charge at 3.3kW at the slow charger and they do have Chademo fast charging, but I don't intend to ever use it (as it takes a long time and the odd longer trip won't kill me having to use petrol). I do average miles, but many days just pottering about locally, school runs, short commute, family, shops, etc. Many days within the 35km. I know motor tax is €170

Practical questions:

1. I believe they are type 1 AC charging. I have a home charger and I use it currently with a permanently plugged in 15m long type 2 cable. I would be slow to having to buy a 15m type 1 cable (as type 1 is obsolete tech and this custom cable would be expensive to buy and virtually worthless after a few years). Can I use a water proof adapter, how much are they, any links?

2. How much would I be able to sell this 151 Outlander for in early 2020?

3. How long is the manufacturer's warranty on the Outlander, and how long on drivetrain / battery?

4. I'm interested in V2H technology. Is this readily usable with all cars using the chademo protocol?

5. Afterthought & quick edit. How much are the cheapest BMW 330e in the UK?

bp_me · 13-12-2017 12:52AM

330e were about the 20k sterling mark for one year old models. Not sure about absolute cheapest. Bit of a mine field finding one with the right spec (folding rear seats were an option for example!).

thierry14 · 13-12-2017 01:43AM

bp_me wrote: »

330e were about the 20k sterling mark for one year old models. Not sure about absolute cheapest. Bit of a mine field finding one with the right spec (folding rear seats were an option for example!).

Some car for that price

I was looking at 330e M Sport for 27K all in vrt

Unkel you would be a fool not sell the Ioniq

Well played

unkel · 13-12-2017 02:21AM

Incredible value for money. Looks like I could land this Cat D 162D BMW 330e, and keep €5k in the bank after selling 171D Ioniq

Linky

I'm a big fan of BMWs. I have owned many of them. I haven't owned one in over a year. I miss them. It makes sense for me to buy one, doesn't it?

What's the battery capacity? Do they have CCS fast charging? What's the standard slow charge rate, 3.6kW or 7.2kW?

peposhi · 13-12-2017 02:23AM

Unkel... WTHeck

?!?
If you can recover the 25k and the PHEV is what you need I’d go for an Outlander.

The adapter is €190

thierry14 · 13-12-2017 02:28AM

unkel wrote: »

Incredible value for money. Looks like I could land this Cat D 162D BMW 330e, and keep €5k in the bank after selling 171D Ioniq

Linky

I'm a big fan of BMWs. I have owned many of them. I haven't owned one in over a year. I miss them. It makes sense for me to buy one, doesn't it?

What's the battery capacity? Do they have CCS fast charging? What's the standard slow charge rate, 3.6kW or 7.2kW?

I would go with a 171

M Sport like below

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201708188446466?advertising-location=at_cars&year-from=2017&postcode=m52ty&model=3%20SERIES&page=1&aggregatedTrim=330e&price-from=500&make=BMW&fuel-type=Hybrid&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New

On the BMW forums they are mad about them

252bhp and with the electric power, they pull hard, instant power

You'd have some warranty too

I wouldn't run one without it

They are pretty complicated compared to a hybrid Lexus etc

unkel · 13-12-2017 02:34AM

thierry14 wrote: »

I would go with a 171

What's your reason for going 171 rather than 161 or 162? The one I linked was £17k, the one you linked was £25k.

thierry14 · 13-12-2017 02:41AM

unkel wrote: »

What's your reason for going 171 rather than 161 or 162? The one I linked was £17k, the one you linked was £25k. I do appreciate your car has the sports suspension.

Extra warranty mainly and m Sport features etc

But 8k sterling is a big difference, even it was crashed or something

What a car for under 20k on the road here

I like the IS300h too

thierry14 · 13-12-2017 03:20AM

Also worth a look

Mercedes c300h AMG

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201710029870030?minimum-badge-engine-size=2.0&advertising-location=at_cars&year-from=2016&postcode=m52ty&page=1&price-from=500&make=MERCEDES-BENZ&fuel-type=Hybrid&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=New&zero-to-60=TO_8

Orebro · 13-12-2017 08:24AM

Jesus Unkel. I need someone to pick me up off the floor. And a stiff drink.

ELM327 · 13-12-2017 08:53AM

You'll have no issue finding a buyer for your Ioniq.
There's only one for sale on donedeal in Ireland at the moment and its €28k for a 172 ex demo.
I'd say you could sell it for a profit.

KCross · 13-12-2017 11:56AM

@unkel, Im not getting the reasons for changing.

You are looking to sell and buy a PHEV yet by your own account you mainly just tootle around town. If you had a PHEV we'd be telling you to buy an Ioniq! It just doesn't make sense unless you have other motives.

Is it just for the thrill of selling it at the price you bought it for, or is it more because you are really a German fan and not so much an Asian one?

Purely from a money perspective selling the Ioniq doesn't make sense, imo.
The Ioniq is going to hold it value very well for the next 12 months. You buy a 330e and it will cost you thousands even if you do get a good deal.

I just don't get it! I think its the German vs Asian thing... it just doesn't sit well with you! Is that it?

You'll also be losing money on your free leecy deal with JustEnergy if you switch to a PHEV!

thierry14 · 13-12-2017 12:04PM

KCross wrote: »

@unkel, Im not getting the reasons for changing.

You are looking to sell and buy a PHEV yet by your own account you mainly just tootle around town. If you had a PHEV we'd be telling you to buy an Ioniq! It just doesn't make sense unless you have other motives.

Is it just for the thrill of selling it at the price you bought it for, or is it more because you are really a German fan and not so much an Asian one?

Purely from a money perspective selling the Ioniq doesn't make sense, imo.
The Ioniq is going to hold it value very well for the next 12 months. You buy a 330e and it will cost you thousands even if you do get a good deal.

I just don't get it! I think its the German vs Asian thing... it just doesn't sit well with you! Is that it?

EDIT: You'll also be losing money on your free leecy deal with JustEnergy if you have a PHEV!

Thats a fair point too KCross

While the 330e is a far faster and more comfortable car, it's a complicated mess and outside warranty will live to up to its BMW name ( bring money withyou)

What unkel should really do is sell that Ioniq for big money and buy a reliable old banger and bank the remainder for a Tesla Model 3/60kWh highish performance EV from Autogiants when they come out soon

330e will depreciate like a rock

unkel · 13-12-2017 12:42PM

330e and Outlander have already depreciated like a rock!

KCross wrote: »

Is it just for the thrill of selling it at the price you bought it for, or is it more because you are really a German fan and not so much an Asian one?

Mostly the former. The thrill but mainly the money. The idea is to have much lower depreciation on the second hand PHEV over 2018 and 2019 than I would have on Ioniq. Running costs would be higher, but not very much, I would charge the car overnight every night, so the first whatever 35km or so are free (just checked the 330e and it's only 22km, that's a bit meh :rolleyes:). With the overall saving, I'd have enough money to buy a new car again in 2020

@thierry14 - yes it would make a lot of financial sense to go bangernomics (for a while, but I don't think my family will let me do that (again)

Shefwedfan · 13-12-2017 12:55PM

Outlander isn't much bigger than a Golf to be honest inside. Any of those Jeep/cars are actually quite small. Your Ioniq is probably as big.

When I looked around and wanted something bigger I ended up with Galaxy. Not much fun to drive but the space is great, I had 6 adults and a baby in it last week with loads of space.

Other option is buy old model 5 series petrol. My mate done that, kept it for 12-18month, sold it on at same price he bought it at, it had low mileage and full BMW service which he kept up....

Or an older Lexus car, he done the same on that, lost a few quid but saved it on juice....the lexus jeeps are out there but most of them have high tax which is a killer these days.....

Orebro · 13-12-2017 12:56PM

And what about the 8 year plan? Sounded good to me!

KCross · 13-12-2017 01:19PM

unkel wrote: »

Mostly the former. The thrill but mainly the money. The idea is to have much lower depreciation on the second hand PHEV over 2018 and 2019 than I would have on Ioniq.

ok, money is always a good motivator.

What depreciation do you expect the Ioniq to have in the next 6 months? I can't imagine it will be much at all as supply is still constrained.

I'd wait until you hear that Ioniqs are on a boat on their way to Ireland, in large numbers, and then sell. You might find that the next batch don't have scrappage (or as much of it) because Hyundai now know they will sell them easily.... which would further hold up the value of your car.

Its the same as the new Leaf... there doesn't appear to be good PCP deals on the new Leaf and scrappage isn't there because they know they can sell them easy. Could happen to the next batch of Ioniq's too.

I think selling in the next 6 months is a bad idea as its effectively free motoring in the meantime and you said money was the big issue! Hold off until you get more data points to help you decide.

unkel · 13-12-2017 02:23PM

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Outlander isn't much bigger than a Golf to be honest inside. Any of those Jeep/cars are actually quite small. Your Ioniq is probably as big.

I've never been in one but I was presuming it is at least the same size (same with the 330e). I don't need anything bigger, but anything smaller is out.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Other option is buy old model 5 series petrol. My mate done that, kept it for 12-18month, sold it on at same price he bought it at

Been there, done that. Many times

Orebro wrote: »

And what about the 8 year plan? Sounded good to me!

Yep it was a good plan and still is. The main reason behind the plan was that I expected fierce enough depreciation in the first few years, but that didn't happen

unkel · 13-12-2017 02:27PM

KCross wrote: »

What depreciation do you expect the Ioniq to have in the next 6 months? I can't imagine it will be much at all as supply is still constrained.

I don't know. But surely there will have been quite a bit of depreciation by the middle or late next year? There must be. Or maybe not as there are no competitors much on the market and it is still a reasonable range car with almost zero running costs.

Appreciate the tips. It's only a crazy thought in my mind at the moment. The range of the BMW is disappointing. That really is very much a compliance setup. At least with the Outlander you have some range and it's a big lumpy 4WD crossover, not a sleek lighter car like the BMW...

KCross · 13-12-2017 03:06PM

unkel wrote: »

I don't know. But surely there will have been quite a bit of depreciation by the middle or late next year? There must be. Or maybe not as there are no competitors much on the market and it is still a reasonable range car with almost zero running costs.

A few possible scenarios....

Low(or zero depreciation for you)
- No sign of a 40kWh+ Ioniq next year. Maybe an announcement in 2H 2018 but no actual cars on the ground until 1H 2019
- Modest (a few hundred) delivery of 28kWh Ioniqs in 2018.
- Little or no scrappage

Low-Med Depreciation
- Decent supply of 28kWh Ioniq's, in which case it would be hard to convince someone to pay €25k for a 171 when they could have a 181 for €28k

High Depreciation
- Decent supply of 28kWh's with €4k scrappage
- 40kWh+ Ioniq's hitting Irish roads in 2H 2018.

My money would be on the first one.

It still depends really on how much depreciation you are willing to take on the Ioniq and guessing which one of the above scenarios comes true. You need a crystal ball first.

bp_me · 13-12-2017 03:25PM

unkel wrote: »

I don't know. But surely there will have been quite a bit of depreciation by the middle or late next year? There must be. Or maybe not as there are no competitors much on the market and it is still a reasonable range car with almost zero running costs.

Surely the 40kW leaf is a credible competitor that will start stealing sales from persons not willing to wait for the next boat of ioniqs.

Orebro · 13-12-2017 03:38PM

Very difficult to see how a 40Kwh Ioniq is going to appear anytime soon when they can't seem to make enough 28Kwh to satisfy global demand?

KCross · 13-12-2017 03:46PM

Orebro wrote: »

Very difficult to see how a 40Kwh Ioniq is going to appear anytime soon when they can't seem to make enough 28Kwh to satisfy global demand?

That and the fact they are supposed to be bringing other EV's to market as well (e.g. Kona) which will further split/reduce the supply of batteries to the Ioniq line.

unkel · 13-12-2017 04:32PM

Kona will be popular (indeed if they can deliver them here in numbers). These small crossovers are still very popular new cars here. I can't see a long range Ioniq on 182 plates. I'd say the new Leaf will be popular too.

I guess there is just very little happening in the EV market next year, is there? And then we are talking 2019. Not a lot happening there either? A bit depressing really, that realistically we won't see much improvement until 2020 here in Ireland (Model 3, VAG, BMW, what's with MB and others?)

ELM327 · 13-12-2017 04:40PM

I firmly believe that the current Ioniq will be the best EV for sale until the end of 2019 here.
Battery supply issues have dried up supplies but they have also stopped other OEM from expanding or introducing a BEV range.

Short of a model S/X you won't have a better EV for the next 2 years. At that point you'll have owned the Ioniq for 3 years.

KCross · 13-12-2017 04:41PM

unkel wrote: »

Kona will be popular (indeed if they can deliver them here in numbers). These small crossovers are still very popular new cars here. I can't see a long range Ioniq on 182 plates. I'd say the new Leaf will be popular too.

I guess there is just very little happening in the EV market next year, is there? And then we are talking 2019. Not a lot happening there either? A bit depressing really, that realistically we won't see much improvement until 2020 here in Ireland (Model 3, VAG, BMW, what's with MB and others?)

Yea, I think 2018 will be mainly about the new Leaf and the existing Ioniq if they can deliver. Not much else new stuff confirmed to hit our roads.

The rest will be PHEV's.

It is really 2019 before we see anything new (Kona, Niro, Stonic, long range Leaf and Ioniq, maybe some Model 3's).

unkel · 13-12-2017 05:24PM

ELM327 wrote: »

I firmly believe that the current Ioniq will be the best EV for sale until the end of 2019 here.

Reviews of the new Leaf are good, I'd say it will be at least on a par with Ioniq and it has a better range but fast charging is slow

And don't discount the eGolf. A bit too small for a family of 5 and too expensive, but a very good car

Calahonda52 · 13-12-2017 07:53PM

Yes please sell it ASAP

unkel · 13-12-2017 08:13PM

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Yes please sell it ASAP

So that you can buy it? Or so that I'll stop talking about it?

thierry14 · 14-12-2017 02:35AM

unkel wrote: »

Kona will be popular (indeed if they can deliver them here in numbers). These small crossovers are still very popular new cars here. I can't see a long range Ioniq on 182 plates. I'd say the new Leaf will be popular too.

I guess there is just very little happening in the EV market next year, is there? And then we are talking 2019. Not a lot happening there either? A bit depressing really, that realistically we won't see much improvement until 2020 here in Ireland (Model 3, VAG, BMW, what's with MB and others?)

Its a disaster

Will be even worse when Tesla confirm mass production of Model 3 is not going to happen

Then you will see Autogiants back off with EV plans

I dont for a second believe VW are going to mass produce them

All bull**** from them

Its not looking good

ELM327 · 14-12-2017 08:46AM

unkel wrote: »

Reviews of the new Leaf are good, I'd say it will be at least on a par with Ioniq and it has a better range but fast charging is slow

And don't discount the eGolf. A bit too small for a family of 5 and too expensive, but a very good car

VW have confirmed no new e-golf
Its too expensive in a qashqai/i30/auris obsessed country. It's a good EV but it's at the wrong price point.

New leaf is not a competitor due to slower fast charging, outdated DC charging method (chademo - will not be expanded in the same way as CCS will) , and not enough range to be a third gen EV. And we don't get the Bolt here.

unkel wrote: »

So that you can buy it? Or so that I'll stop talking about it?

I'd guess the first one.

Should unkel sell his Ioniq?

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