Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

Idbatterim · 12-12-2017 06:21PM

donvito99 wrote: »

Similar shenanigans tonight at Pearse Street. Southbound tram stuck for two sequences that I witnessed.

what was blocking it?

Muahahaha · 12-12-2017 06:32PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Inelegantly worded - yes, the quays were slow for buses this morning akin to pre the ormonde quay bus lane changes a couple of months back.

Would you say the tailback on the quays was caused by the frequency of the Luas crossing OConnell Bridge? Or by private cars using bus lanes?

I wonder will DCC revisit their u-turn on banning cars from Bachelors Walk?

Jamie2k9 · 12-12-2017 06:39PM

According to Luas a problem with delivery van this morning lasted around 15 minutes.

Idbatterim · 12-12-2017 06:44PM

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

According to Luas a problem with delivery van this morning lasted around 15 minutes.

dear god! this is unbelievable!

donvito99 · 12-12-2017 07:03PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

donvito99 wrote: »

Similar shenanigans tonight at Pearse Street. Southbound tram stuck for two sequences that I witnessed.

what was blocking it?

In the second sequence, one taxi which cleared was replaced by another taxi - which was already beyond the stop line but not in a yellow box or the ped crossing - which stayed long enough for the tram to miss its signal again.

And there must have been scores of people at the trinity stop. Trams really were not meant for this kind of capacity in this kind of environment.

BonnieSituation · 12-12-2017 07:23PM

So as predicted, it's already under capacity.

LeinsterDub · 12-12-2017 07:34PM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

So as predicted, it's already under capacity.

Where and when?

BonnieSituation · 12-12-2017 07:48PM

Now now LD.

LXFlyer · 12-12-2017 08:01PM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

So as predicted, it's already under capacity.

Well it might not be if they had opened with the planned number of trams.

Remember that they are seven trams short.

BonnieSituation · 12-12-2017 08:12PM

LXFlyer wrote: »

Well it might not be if they had opened with the planned number of trams.

Remember that they are seven trams short.

So you're saying it's under capacity then?

LXFlyer · 12-12-2017 08:17PM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

So you're saying it's under capacity then?

What I am saying is that they have insufficient trams to operate the planned launch timetable.

They have cut departures from Brides Glen inbound during the morning peak by 33% to facilitate the extension through the city and to Broombridge which has caused mayhem.

That has nothing to do with any of the predictions - it has everything to do with launching a service before you had the rolling stock in place to actually deliver it.

strandroad · 12-12-2017 08:18PM

I'm sure many more people will want to use it once it settles. My office location makes it an option for us but people are holding off. We have other options so no one wants to get stuck somewhere to shave off a few minutes; once this risk is gone they will switch.

Consonata · 12-12-2017 08:20PM

Trams were never designed to be the sole form of transport for a city the size of Dublin. They exist to alleviate an underground system. If you want proof of that, take a look at what the Trinity - Dawson street stops looked like today. Black with people.

BonnieSituation · 12-12-2017 08:34PM

LXFlyer wrote: »

What I am saying is that they have insufficient trams to operate the planned launch timetable.

They have cut departures from Brides Glen inbound during the morning peak by 33% to facilitate the extension through the city and to Broombridge which has caused mayhem.

That has nothing to do with any of the predictions - it has everything to do with launching a service before you had the rolling stock in place to actually deliver it.

Right, So it's under capacity. It's okay, you can say it. And the man and his dog knew it would be. No one cares if the new trams are on the way the fact is we have a a woefully designed and inadequate system (the routing will always fry my brain) that is further hamstrung by capacity issues caused by "not enough trams".

Is that acceptable? Was it a surprise?

They have expanded a route and as you said, they have also curtailed services. How is that not something to rail against.

strandroad wrote: »

I'm sure many more people will want to use it once it settles. My office location makes it an option for us but people are holding off. We have other options so no one wants to get stuck somewhere to shave off a few minutes; once this risk is gone they will switch.

it's frankly pathetic that you have the choice and can't use it because of this predictable unpredictability.

BonnieSituation · 12-12-2017 08:35PM

Consonata wrote: »

Trams were never designed to be the sole form of transport for a city the size of Dublin. They exist to alleviate an underground system. If you want proof of that, take a look at what the Trinity - Dawson street stops looked like today. Black with people.

This is it.

Every mode we have in Dublin is doing what heavy rail does elsewhere. Buses and trams complement heavy rail in every other city. In Dublin we get meandering trams and buses that need to go via the pillar in EVERY case.

bk · 12-12-2017 08:38PM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

This is it.

Every mode we have in Dublin is doing what heavy rail does elsewhere. Buses and trams complement heavy rail in every other city. In Dublin we get meandering trams and buses that need to go via the pillar in EVERY case.

Bonnie, you keep mentioning heavy rail. Do you mean Irish Rail, DART, etc.?

Or are you thinking Metro when you say heavy rail? Like what is planned for Metro North?

LXFlyer · 12-12-2017 08:38PM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Right, So it's under capacity. It's okay, you can say it. And the man and his dog knew it would be. No one cares if the new trams are on the way the fact is we have a a woefully designed and inadequate system (the routing will always fry my brain) that is further hamstrung by capacity issues caused by "not enough trams".

Is that acceptable? Was it a surprise?

They have expanded a route and as you said, they have also curtailed services. How is that not something to rail against.

it's frankly pathetic that you have the choice and can't use it because of this predictable unpredictability.

I don't disagree about the routing one iota - it should never have happened, but I do think that if the trams were in place, then the issue of people being left behind wouldn't be happening to the degree that it is.

However, I still have grave reservations about how the new longer trams will work in the city centre.

BonnieSituation · 12-12-2017 08:40PM

bk wrote: »

Bonnie, you keep mentioning heavy rail. Do you mean Irish Rail, DART, etc.?

Or are you thinking Metro when you say heavy rail? Like what is planned for Metro North?

MN is gonna be a glorified tram. AND will even have on street running!

Heavy rail as in "heavy rail", like DART etc.

Consonata · 12-12-2017 08:41PM

LXFlyer wrote: »

I don't disagree about the routing one iota - it should never have happened, but I do think that if the trams were in place, then the issue of people being left behind wouldn't be happening to the degree that it is.

However, I still have grave reservations about how the new longer trams will work in the city centre.

The length of the trams is fine for the streets that they are trying to navigate. The issue is that the other public transport services that it is supposed to be complementing are inadequate and are infact hindered by this tram line.

The resulting popularity of this line should be a neon light sign to the government of how much the city needs an underground rail service. Metro North/DU and Metro West

BonnieSituation · 12-12-2017 08:43PM

LXFlyer wrote: »

I don't disagree about the routing one iota - it should never have happened, but I do think that if the trams were in place, then the issue of people being left behind wouldn't be happening to the degree that it is.

However, I still have grave reservations about how the new longer trams will work in the city centre.

If the trams were in place...

That's what I'm getting at. We knew we needed new trams so they were ordered. Why weren't they ordered to coincide with the opening of LCC?

Imagine in 2004 we did similar with the original lines. It's the same.

The current set up is woefully under capacity. And it's completely unacceptable after 350m and 4 years of hassle with construction.

uck51js9zml2yt · 12-12-2017 08:46PM

Drove in again this morning. Eccles and temple st/ hill station were chaos.
Dolier st not as bad. Time to work 10 minutes better at 30 minutes. Still slower than normal.

Might try the luas tomorrow if it's not raining:),

LXFlyer · 12-12-2017 08:49PM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

If the trams were in place...

That's what I'm getting at. We knew we needed new trams so they were ordered. Why weren't they ordered to coincide with the opening of LCC?

Imagine in 2004 we did similar with the original lines. It's the same.

The current set up is woefully under capacity. And it's completely unacceptable after 350m and 4 years of hassle with construction.

They were ordered to coincide with the opening as far as I know - they’ve been delayed as I understand it, which has been my point. They should have deferred the opening or reduced the city centre running by turning back some trams at St Stephen’s Green in order to maintain frequency on the original Green Line.

LXFlyer · 12-12-2017 08:55PM

Consonata wrote: »

The length of the trams is fine for the streets that they are trying to navigate. The issue is that the other public transport services that it is supposed to be complementing are inadequate and are infact hindered by this tram line.

The resulting popularity of this line should be a neon light sign to the government of how much the city needs an underground rail service. Metro North/DU and Metro West

The impact of the longer trams will be far more significant as they will require to move from Westmoreland Stop to O’Connell-GPO in a single move as they won’t fit onto O’Connell Bridge without overhanging traffic lanes, and similarly southbound from Marlborough stop to Hawkins St in a single move.

That’s potentially going to have a serious impact on the bus network unless more traffic restrictions are put in place.

strandroad · 12-12-2017 08:55PM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

MN is gonna be a glorified tram. AND will even have on street running!

Heavy rail as in "heavy rail", like DART etc.

Is Metro North even a metro I wonder? Metro means fully segregated, with absolute priority throughout. MN is pretty much a tram line with an underground segment, like what they have in the Hague?

Spanish Eyes · 12-12-2017 08:57PM

Just a question please.

Probably already answered in earlier posts/threads but anyway.

Shouldn't there be a NO Left turn rule for buses at the bottom of Dawson Street, instead going right to Nassau St, Westland Row, Pearse Street and Tara Street with a new Right turn allowed on OCB for Northbound Buses? That would take a lot of buses off the College Green/Westmoreland Street area. Less competition for space on the roads there.

The return I'm not sure about, but Townsend Street is an option for some buses I'm guessing.

Maybe someone has pointed out the failings of this.

Anyone who needs to go to Westmoreland Street can use the Luas at Dawson. Same on the way back for those wanting to get to Trinity or Dawson, change at Marlborough.

Taxis need to be tackled also, but I have no suggestions apart from banning them from College Green/Pearse Street during rush hour or something.

Anyway I suppose we really need to give it time, and identify what is causing the problem. Maybe after a while there will be none!

Just thinking out loud here, and that can be dangerous!

AngryLips · 12-12-2017 10:10PM

bk wrote: »

Bonnie, you keep mentioning heavy rail. Do you mean Irish Rail, DART, etc.?

Or are you thinking Metro when you say heavy rail? Like what is planned for Metro North?

Bonnie is saying that a half hourly service that often runs late, like the one on the Northern Line to Drogheda, would be preferable

BonnieSituation · 12-12-2017 10:42PM

AngryLips wrote: »

Bonnie is saying that a half hourly service that often runs late, like the one on the Northern Line to Drogheda, would be preferable

Am I?

AngryLips · 12-12-2017 10:58PM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Am I?

Well what are you saying? Because there is no IR service that comes close to the service quality of Luas

KD345 · 12-12-2017 11:03PM

The most frustrating thing for me has been the lack of communication from Luas. This morning, there were hundreds of regular Luas passengers delayed because of a shortage of trams. Lots of people complained on Twitter but Luas did not offer the courtesy of replying. Even pictures of a crowded Glencairn platform didn’t get so much as an apology. There were lots of complaints of people unable to get to work and school but no reply or explanation from Luas.

Some newspapers reported on the delays but ‘nobody from Transdev’ was available to comment. How can you not have a manned twitter account, or a spokesperson available when thousands of passengers are affected?

Where is Transport For Ireland in all of this? We have had wall to wall coverage and spokespeople In recent weeks promoting Luas Cross City but now when the launch goes wrong there is nobody to be found.

I am hoping these issues are sorted out soon. As a regular Luas passenger it is awful to see what was an excellent Green Line service fall apart.

In the meantime, Luas managers should be out there apologising to their regular passengers for all the inconvenience.

bk · 12-12-2017 11:04PM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

MN is gonna be a glorified tram. AND will even have on street running!

Heavy rail as in "heavy rail", like DART etc.

AngryLips wrote: »

Bonnie is saying that a half hourly service that often runs late, like the one on the Northern Line to Drogheda, would be preferable

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Am I?

You seem to be!

The Barcelona Metro uses the same glorified trams! I don't think many of us would be complaining if we had the Barcelona Metro here. It is pretty fantastic.

A reminder that our glorified trams, carry more passengers then DART and Commuter rail put together and that with the opening of BXD they are likely to equal or even surpass the entire Irish Rail network.

Their really isn't too much special about heavy rail, what is called "medium capacity rail system" is what is planned for Metro North and is used in Paris, Barcelona, Milan, Copenhagen, etc. It is definitely a step up from light rail.

To be honest, had DART been built as MCS too, but on it's own separate tracks to the heavy rail network, it would be a much better commuter service then it is now.

BTW MN won't have any on street running, it will be fully segregated.

Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

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