Minimum age to start school

seamus · 08-12-2017 10:13AM

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

2020 is the proposed start date so i can't see why they would have an issue with numbers at this stage.

Is this your first by any chance? Some schools are booked out years in advance.

Both our kids had their names down for the local secondary school a couple of weeks after they were born. That's how tight the numbers are there.

On your original question, yes you can send them at 4, but if the school is oversubscribed, and in the absence of other factors, the school will give priority to older children. A child who turns 4 in the summer just before school may get bumped to the following year.

The St. Patrick's day guidance given above is probably about right, but tailored for the child.
I had only turned 4 in the April before I started school, but I had 3 older brothers so from having to muck in and and survive at home I was relatively mature and capable of school. My first daughter was a month away from 5 when she started and she really wouldn't have been able for it 6 months previously.

boardsuser1 · 08-12-2017 10:14AM

seamus wrote: »

Is this your first by any chance? Some schools are booked out years in advance.

Both our kids had their names down for the local secondary school a couple of weeks after they were born. That's how tight the numbers are there.

On your original question, yes you can send them at 4, but if the school is oversubscribed, and in the absence of other factors, the school will give priority to older children. A child who turns 4 in the summer just before school may get bumped to the following year.

The St. Patrick's day guidance given above is probably about right, but tailored for the child.
I had only turned 4 in the April before I started school, but I had 3 older brothers so from having to muck and and survive, I was relatively mature and capable of school. My first daughter was a month away from 5 when she started and she really wouldn't have been able for it 6 months previously.

My first boy and 4th child overall.

I've babies 4 & 5 due in 12 weeks.

I tried to enroll the child when he was born and they weren't taking pupils for that year as yet.

tringle · 08-12-2017 10:34AM

Long time ago but..
My birthday is January. As soon as Xmas holidays were over Mam took me to the school to register me for September. School was small and low on numbers so said I could start straight away.....mam went home and that was my first day at school. It was assumed I wouldn't move up a class in September...but I did. Socially, academically, emotionally I was fine, i was smaller than everyone but my family are small anyway.

I moved through each class always thinking I would be repeating some year but this never happened.
Small problems through primary school related to school competitions/feis etc. Everyone in class would be in one age category and I would be in the lower one so I never got to compete against my class mates.

I moved house and towns 4 weeks before 6th class finished. My new primary school wouldn't keep me to repeat 6th class and the local secondary school didn't want me as I was too young. Ended up my previous headmistress wrote to the new secondary school and they took me. But they had to get permission from department of education to let me sit state exams. I sat my leaving at 16 and left.

Problems again, no college would take me and I ended up working full time for a year. I was fine with that but not many 16 year olds should be commuting over 2 hours each day, working with adults and on a full time wage, I found it hard to settle back into.college after that.

What age do you want them to leave school at? I think just hitting 18 is about right.
But it will come down to school policy and availability.
My brothers son started at 5 years 6 months. At 4 years 6 months he couldn't be guaranteed a place and would be on a waiting list whereas a year later he would be top of the list. Sisters son the opposite, he was 4 years 4 months when he started. Turns out he had special needs and needs extra help in school. Another year at home would not have helped this at all, in fact he is getting the help a year earlier.

There is no answer, each child and school is different. Are you and your baby ready to be parted or would an extra year together be beneficial.

seamus · 08-12-2017 10:34AM

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

I tried to enroll the child when he was born and they weren't taking pupils for that year as yet.

Yeah, policies vary a lot across schools, which is ridiculous tbh.
I've heard of some which won't open the enrollment books until a certain date, but then they don't operate a first-come-first-served policy.

Moonbeam · 08-12-2017 11:14AM

The age rang in some class is up to 18 months atm. That is far too much.
I have 3 January babies and they started at 4 after chatting to the play school.
My last is April and there was very little question of her starting at 4 but as it is the school introduced a minimum age policy ,4 by the 1st of March so all kids must be 4 1/2 starting.

boardsuser1 · 08-12-2017 03:21PM

I've attached a copy of the email from me to the school and the return email.

The only thing i have edited is the removal of my real name and that of the school's location and principal's name.

Dear ,

I would wait until the following year as he is very young for JI in Sept.

Regards,

F

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 9:03 AM, <> wrote:
Dear Sir/Madam,

I write to you regarding the above.

Can you please inform me whether i can enroll my child for junior infants in September 2020?

He will turn 4 on September 4th of that year.

I am also a past pupil of the school myself.

Kind Regards

boardsuser1 · 08-12-2017 03:24PM

seamus wrote: »

Yeah, policies vary a lot across schools, which is ridiculous tbh.
I've heard of some which won't open the enrollment books until a certain date, but then they don't operate a first-come-first-served policy.

I have to try and figure out what the exact policy of the school is, the principal has invited me to the school to meet with him.

I was enrolled there just days shy of my 5th birthday almost 30 years ago.

The only reason for that was because of the instability in my background at the time.

Can schools enforce a policy?

A principal in my daughters school told me that if a child is presented for enrollment they are obliged to accept.

seamus · 08-12-2017 03:27PM

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Can schools enforce a policy?

A principal in my daughters school told me that if a child is presented for enrollment they are obliged to accept.

They're obligated to accept the application and process it fairly. That is, a school in receipt of public money cannot refuse anyone who applies for a place for their child.

But they're not obligated to offer the child a place.

boardsuser1 · 08-12-2017 03:29PM

tringle wrote: »

Long time ago but..
My birthday is January. As soon as Xmas holidays were over Mam took me to the school to register me for September. School was small and low on numbers so said I could start straight away.....mam went home and that was my first day at school. It was assumed I wouldn't move up a class in September...but I did. Socially, academically, emotionally I was fine, i was smaller than everyone but my family are small anyway.

I moved through each class always thinking I would be repeating some year but this never happened.
Small problems through primary school related to school competitions/feis etc. Everyone in class would be in one age category and I would be in the lower one so I never got to compete against my class mates.

I moved house and towns 4 weeks before 6th class finished. My new primary school wouldn't keep me to repeat 6th class and the local secondary school didn't want me as I was too young. Ended up my previous headmistress wrote to the new secondary school and they took me. But they had to get permission from department of education to let me sit state exams. I sat my leaving at 16 and left.

Problems again, no college would take me and I ended up working full time for a year. I was fine with that but not many 16 year olds should be commuting over 2 hours each day, working with adults and on a full time wage, I found it hard to settle back into.college after that.

What age do you want them to leave school at? I think just hitting 18 is about right.
But it will come down to school policy and availability.
My brothers son started at 5 years 6 months. At 4 years 6 months he couldn't be guaranteed a place and would be on a waiting list whereas a year later he would be top of the list. Sisters son the opposite, he was 4 years 4 months when he started. Turns out he had special needs and needs extra help in school. Another year at home would not have helped this at all, in fact he is getting the help a year earlier.

There is no answer, each child and school is different. Are you and your baby ready to be parted or would an extra year together be beneficial.

My wife and myself have always agreed to put our children into school at the earliest opportunity as with one of our daughters who started school almost 1 month after the rest, the only ones who tried to persuade us otherwise was the pre school she was in, myself and the F.I.L both objected feeling she was ready for primary school and the wife has conceded that it was the correct decision.

The only difficult that ever really presented with us was another of the children has special needs but has not been kept back.

I personally would be against starting them at 5 due to my own experiences starting at that age.

Only 1 other person in the class was older than me and he came in during 3rd class from a UK school.

boardsuser1 · 08-12-2017 03:31PM

seamus wrote: »

They're obligated to accept the application and process it fairly. That is, a school in receipt of public money cannot refuse anyone who applies for a place for their child.

But they're not obligated to offer the child a place.

I'll make the trip down again on Monday and try to enroll him and see where it gets me.

What you say is a valid point.

It is a publicly funded school of more than 600 boys.

SusieBlue · 08-12-2017 03:33PM

seamus wrote: »

They're obligated to accept the application and process it fairly. That is, a school in receipt of public money cannot refuse anyone who applies for a place for their child.

But they're not obligated to offer the child a place.

This. I'd also be in agreement with the principal. The school year normally starts the last week of August, meaning your kiddo will be 3 for the first two weeks and the bare 4 for the remainder of the year. I would take the advice of the principal and wait. 3 turning 4 is very young to start JI.

boardsuser1 · 08-12-2017 03:43PM

WhiteRoses wrote: »

This. I'd also be in agreement with the principal. The school year normally starts the last week of August, meaning your kiddo will be 3 for the first two weeks and the bare 4 for the remainder of the year. I would take the advice of the principal and wait. 3 turning 4 is very young to start JI.

Yeah, in or around the final week of August.

The child wouldn't be permitted to start until they reach their 4th birthday.

This happened to us once where the school year started on August 25th and the child began school on September 27th.

As some people have said, every child is different, some might be able for it and others won't.

ectoraige · 08-12-2017 03:44PM

The majority of academic research into this points to 6/7 as being the ideal age to begin formal schooling. Informal play-schooling for younger ages allow the best development of executive functions which strongly correlates with better mental health for the children and better problem-solving skills. Their later academic ability is generally as good if not better than those who started formal school at 4.

Historically allowing children to start school at 4 was a purely economic move allowing more people to rejoin the workforce, there was little regard for the childrens' best interests. The extension of the ECCE scheme was a positive step, culturally there's a lot of pressure to have them started earlier, hopefully over time the question will shift from "4 or 5?" to "5 or 6?" to start school.

boardsuser1 · 08-12-2017 03:52PM

ectoraige wrote: »

The majority of academic research into this points to 6/7 as being the ideal age to begin formal schooling. Informal play-schooling for younger ages allow the best development of executive functions which strongly correlates with better mental health for the children and better problem-solving skills. Their later academic ability is generally as good if not better than those who started formal school at 4.

Historically allowing children to start school at 4 was a purely economic move allowing more people to rejoin the workforce, there was little regard for the childrens' best interests. The extension of the ECCE scheme was a positive step, culturally there's a lot of pressure to have them started earlier, hopefully over time the question will shift from "4 or 5?" to "5 or 6?" to start school.

The ECCE scheme was very beneficial for the one year we did have it. They pre school on that occasion tried to get us to take a second year but we declined it.

If they start school at 5 or 6, wouldn't that mean doing a leaving cert in or around 19/20?

Romantic Rose · 08-12-2017 04:01PM

I spent a lot of time teaching at the Junior end of the school and there is not a chance I would send my child to school who has just turned 4.

With the 2 ECCE years, the majority of children are at least 5 and some closer to 6.

Even my own girl who is as bright as a button is just turning 5 starting school and I'm wondering will she be too young as I know that there will be 6 years olds in her room.

Give your child the best chance with his education. Let him go to preschool and play and explore some more.

It's a long day for a young child. Let him be young once, formal education can wait.

Statistically speaking, with him being so young. He will end up in a class with other children being 20-25% older than him.

boardsuser1 · 08-12-2017 04:49PM

Romantic Rose wrote: »

I spent a lot of time teaching at the Junior end of the school and there is not a chance I would send my child to school who has just turned 4.

With the 2 ECCE years, the majority of children are at least 5 and some closer to 6.

Even my own girl who is as bright as a button is just turning 5 starting school and I'm wondering will she be too young as I know that there will be 6 years olds in her room.

Give your child the best chance with his education. Let him go to preschool and play and explore some more.

It's a long day for a young child. Let him be young once, formal education can wait.

Statistically speaking, with him being so young. He will end up in a class with other children being 20-25% older than him.

In Junior Infants?

Is this becoming a common thing?

Where i am living there is high unemployment/high welfare dependency and the children is these families are all sent in at 4.

There are others schools that are closer who will take him on his 4th birthday no questions asked but they were pushing us to enroll him so we backed away.

It must be difficult to be a JI teacher and have your own children of a similar age,personally i take my hat off to teachers in that position.

Romantic Rose · 08-12-2017 05:04PM

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

In Junior Infants?

Is this becoming a common thing?

Where i am living there is high unemployment/high welfare dependency and the children is these families are all sent in at 4.

There are others schools that are closer who will take him on his 4th birthday no questions asked but they were pushing us to enroll him so we backed away.

It must be difficult to be a JI teacher and have your own children of a similar age,personally i take my hat off to teachers in that position.

From my daughter's Montessori room, a lot of the children going to school in September will have turned 5 in the April or May prior to starting school. I know there are children older than that too.

The ECCE years is definitely pushing the starting age up.

I worked in a DEIS area where children starting school younger was the norm but I never agreed with it. It was before there was more emphasis on preschooling.

I think a lot of it was a case of getting rid of the child for a large portion of the day unfortunately! Not thinking of what is in the best interests of the child.

Remouad · 08-12-2017 05:07PM

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

The ECCE scheme was very beneficial for the one year we did have it. They pre school on that occasion tried to get us to take a second year but we declined it.

If they start school at 5 or 6, wouldn't that mean doing a leaving cert in or around 19/20?

Taking your son as an example, you've stated that they wouldn't take him as he would be just turning 4.
If you waited until he was 5 he would be 18 doing the leaving.

Is there a problem with doing the leaving at 19? or is it just because that's the age that you perceive it should be done?

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

In Junior Infants?

Is this becoming a common thing?
.

Half of the junior infants in our local school turned 6 before the end of the school year.

Personally I think a child should only start school if they will turn 5 before February.

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Where i am living there is high unemployment/high welfare dependency and the children is these families are all sent in at 4.
.

I know this is common but I can never understand it.
There's no reason not to wait until 5 if childcare costs aren't an issue.

Teyla Emmagan · 08-12-2017 05:18PM

I would definitely wait if you can afford it.

gar32 · 08-12-2017 05:19PM

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Yeah I heard of it being mooted but no more than that.

My now 7 year old started school on her 4th birthday, a full 3 and a half weeks after the rest.

She’s the youngest in the class but it never presented any issues.

She’ll be just turning 17 getting her leaving cert results if I done the calculations right.

Cheers for the reply

She will have to work 1 year more now to get her pension so there are many way's to look at it.

boardsuser1 · 08-12-2017 05:22PM

Remouad wrote: »

Taking your son as an example, you've stated that they wouldn't take him as he would be just turning 4.
If you waited until he was 5 he would be 18 doing the leaving.

Is there a problem with doing the leaving at 19? or is it just because that's the age that you perceive it should be done?

Half of the junior infants in our local school turned 6 before the end of the school year.

Personally I think a child should only start school if they will turn 5 before February.

I know this is common but I can never understand it.
There's no reason not to wait until 5 if childcare costs aren't an issue.

It's not that they wouldn't take him,but would prefer i were to wait the extra year.

I was raised the old fashioned way where doing the leaving cert at roughly 17 is normal.

No one i personally know or know of has started a child in JI aged 6 hence i find it a bit strange.

The childcare costs we previously paid were affordable. €38 for a 15 hour week or €58 for a 20 hour week with breakfast and lunch thrown in wasn't to be turned down.

We are unsure if we can get a place for the wee lad there as they are flooding their books with children and can't get the staff to cover the work.

Being a trucker my wages are ok but not as good as someone in software and development as i found out to my astonishment today :eek:

boardsuser1 · 08-12-2017 05:24PM

Teyla Emmagan wrote: »

I would definitely wait if you can afford it.

This is the thing, it all comes down to finances of waiting the extra year.

gar32 wrote: »

She will have to work 1 year more now to get her pension so there are many way's to look at it.

The pension is 70 for myself now,but it will probably be 80 or done away with once they hit adulthood.

GT_TDI_150 · 08-12-2017 05:29PM

OP does your child go through pre school? Ask the staff that interact with him what they think.

They see him in a classroom like setting and will have a good idea whether he is able for the step up from play learing to more learning less playing and whether he has developed enough socially for the new setting / routine....

Also did i read you have twins on the way... id also be conscious of due date and school start date... last tbing u want is babys arrive last week in august and him shipped of to school first week in sept... in his mind he will feel forced out.

Also.. you seem to base your want of starting him at 4 based on you experience of starting at 5 (didyou say 30yrs ago) ... a lot has changed in that time. 30yrs ago people would freely drink and drive or smoke in cars with kids present. That doesnt mean its still the right thing to do.

SusieBlue · 08-12-2017 05:30PM

I know I said it already but a 4 year old starting school would be 16 doing the leaving cert if TY was skipped. 17 if not, but I don't think that's much better.
They will be in a class largely made up of kids aged 18, with some turning 19 before the end of the year.
They will want to be doing the things their friends are doing, socially. I'm in my mid 20's now and I personally think a child of 16/17 is worlds apart from one aged 18/19. This is the company your child will be keeping.
It would be very hard to keep boundaries in place regarding curfews, drinking, parties etc when the childs whole social circle will be at least 18 months older, unless you exclude them from their friends.
I also think 16/17 is far too young to be sent away to college or to be working full time while waiting to enroll in college because they are too young.

You could of course start him at 3 turning 4 and have no issues at all, I'm just musing here. But I think its risky and waiting til 4 turning 5 is a far better option. I don't really see any advantage to start at 3 turning 4 unless its for financial/creche reasons, and at that, would only do so at the very last resort with all other options exhausted.

byhookorbycrook · 08-12-2017 07:40PM

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Made a query to my former school where I hope to enroll my child.

They have told me they would prefer to wait until the following year as they feel he would be too young, in other words starting on his 4th birthday.

Can they legally do this or is it merely professional advice?

Yes, they can, a school is free to set their own policy and your only chance of overturning a decision by the school re your child is only if the school doesn't follow their own policy to the letter of the law.
ETA: Get the school enrollment policy - if the policy says the child has to be a certain age before starting, calling to the school constantly is futile .
There has also been talk that once the second pre-school year is in place for a number of years, that TY will be done away with it. And in any case, there's no guarantee that your choice of secondary will run one or that your child will get a place.

boardsuser1 · 08-12-2017 07:53PM

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Yes, they can, a school is free to set their own policy and your only chance of overturning a decision by the school re your child is only if the school doesn't follow their own policy to the letter of the law.
ETA: Get the school enrollment policy - if the policy says the child has to be a certain age before starting, calling to the school constantly is futile .
There has also been talk that once the second pre-school year is in place for a number of years, that TY will be done away with it. And in any case, there's no guarantee that your choice of secondary will run one or that your child will get a place.

I left the school in the mid 90's, i didn't go back there until September 2016 to try and enroll my son, i have not been back again since,so i would hardly say calling to the school once in 20 years in futile.

The principal invited me back to the school, i think i mentioned that in an earlier post.

I may just get the school policy if i do call.

Birdsong · 08-12-2017 08:36PM

Cork Truck Driver wrote:

I was raised the old fashioned way where doing the leaving cert at roughly 17 is normal.

I did my leaving cert in the early '90s and moved to Dublin at 17 for college, was way too young. I couldn't cope, besides not being able to get in to night clubs etc, I didn't have the maturity to deal with being away from home.

I now work with apprentices who are just finished school and those that are a minimum of 18 and 19 is preferred are definitely much better in the work place. I wouldn't take on someone under 18. Boys especially mature slowly.

firemansam4 · 08-12-2017 08:55PM

Our son was born in February and we waited until he was 5, he was slow to start talking and just didnt seem quite ready at 4.
He is by far the oldest in his class, there are many children with birthdays after his when they turn a year younger than he is. Most of the other children seemed to have started at age 4 in his class.

But I think we made the correct decision as I think he would have struggled a year earlier, and think he is coping better because of it.

gooseygander · 08-12-2017 09:04PM

Opinion please on starting my boy at 4.5 years or 5.5 years. His birthday is end of March and we are thinking of 4.5 start next September. What do you all think ??

splinter65 · 08-12-2017 09:20PM

Birdsong wrote: »

I did my leaving cert in the early '90s and moved to Dublin at 17 for college, was way too young. I couldn't cope, besides not being able to get in to night clubs etc, I didn't have the maturity to deal with being away from home.

I now work with apprentices who are just finished school and those that are a minimum of 18 and 19 is preferred are definitely much better in the work place. I wouldn't take on someone under 18. Boys especially mature slowly.

My daughter a very socially adept popular girl did her LC 6 weeks before her 19 birthday, went to college in the Sept and had dropped out by Christmas because she couldn’t hack living away from home.
She’s gone back since Sept 17 ( one year later) and is doing great, thank God.
At 19 (30+ years ago) I was living and working away from home without a bother.
Things are completely different now, these kids have grown up in a completely different environment.
Parents need to be listening all the time and whatever you do keep the conversation going with respect and patience.

Minimum age to start school

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