Minimum age to start school

boardsuser1

Is 4 still the earliest you can send a child to primary school?

The wife is trying to convince me here that it is now law that a child must be 5.

Can anyone verify? Having looked around google I can only see that children must start no later than 6.

Remouad

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Is 4 still the earliest you can send a child to primary school?

The wife is trying to convince me here that it is now law that a child must be 5.

Can anyone verify? Having looked around google I can only see that children must start no later than 6.

The idea of having a minimum age of 5 was mooted but hasn't been implemented.

Schools generally will not take under 4 and 5 is preferable.

Tom Mann Centuria

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Is 4 still the earliest you can send a child to primary school?

The wife is trying to convince me here that it is now law that a child must be 5.

Can anyone verify? Having looked around google I can only see that children must start no later than 6.

4

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/education/primary_and_post_primary_education/going_to_primary_school/primary_education_life_event.html

I didn't send my kids until they were 5.

boardsuser1

Remouad wrote: »

The idea of having a minimum age of 5 was mooted but hasn't been implemented.

Schools generally will not take under 4 and 5 is preferable.

Yeah I heard of it being mooted but no more than that.

My now 7 year old started school on her 4th birthday, a full 3 and a half weeks after the rest.

She’s the youngest in the class but it never presented any issues.

She’ll be just turning 17 getting her leaving cert results if I done the calculations right.

Cheers for the reply

boardsuser1

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

4

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/education/primary_and_post_primary_education/going_to_primary_school/primary_education_life_event.html

I didn't send my kids until they were 5.

Do you regret not starting them at 4?

I was 5 when I started and wasn’t best pleased, I always said if I could start my kids at 4 I would.

3 have started aged 4 so far.

Snotty

Maybe it's down to specific schools, but my local said a child needed to turn 4 by start of the April previous to start of school I'm September

GT_TDI_150

It isnt really age and age alone though.

The pre school staff tend to have a good idea whether a child is ready or not... not only intellectually but more importantly socially...

A child might know the alphabet, can count to 50, recite nursery rhyms, etc but to shy to join in play or talk to other kids...

Tom Mann Centuria

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Do you regret not starting them at 4?

I was 5 when I started and wasn’t best pleased, I always said if I could start my kids at 4 I would.

3 have started aged 4 so far.

No, I am very happy we left it until 5. They have had no problems concentrating, they will be that tiny bit more mature when it comes to exams way down the line, and maybe have a better idea of career/educational choices too.

Besides, they aren't children for long, so we enjoyed the extra year we had with them before they started school. (this was the main reason)

Remouad

I've never heard of people who regret waiting until 5 however I do know people who regret sending at 4.

With playschool now free for 2 years for children older than 3 it's going to be more common for children to start at 5.

Speedwell

When I was 4, the school in my area accepted kids if they were going to be 5 by September 30. My birthday was in mid-September, but I could already read so they let me in anyway.

Gatling

Seems to be a consensus the later the better

boardsuser1

I've set up a poll to gauge what people think may be best.

Some people looking in may have an opinion but might not wish to comment.

daheff

in my opinion they should be 5 before Patricks day of the first year in school.

my oldest started at 4 and was 5 in feb

youngest bday is may...started after in sept after 5th bday



what i do notice is a lot of eastern european kids start later...theres one in eldests class that is a full year older than the rest. Seems to be that back in their home countries kids start school at 1st class timeframes...and they may not have realised we start a little earlier. Some its because the children dont speak enough english to start school.

Conversely, a lot of the African kids seem to start just after going 4....and seem very young and lost the first year or so.

Sleeper12

Some schools that will be full to capacity look for ways to trim the numbers. Some schools won't take under 5s. These schools seem to be in the minority

Mooooo

Sister is a primary teacher for 14 years now and is sure 5 is better. Started her own at 5 as well. Now some do fine at 4 but she reckons the extra 6 months to a year makes a massive difference

SusieBlue

It would depend on when the child is to turn 5. If the child will turn 5 between September and Christmas and seems ready, I would say its fair game to start at 4. Anything after Christmas would give me cause for concern.
In my own personal situation, I turned 4 in the August and started school that September. In hindsight, despite the fact that I was near top of the class academically, I struggled big time socially. For lack of better word, the older kids were far more street wise than me and I couldn't keep up with them. I was also worn out from the day, constantly exhausted.
There were a few kids in my class who turned 6 before the end of the school year, meaning I was aged 4 in a class amongst 6 year olds. I ended up staying back a year in first class and I thrived, never had an issue since, academically or socially. This would have been in the mid 90's so not too long ago.
The other side of it is that there were kids in my class in secondary school who didn't turn 18 before the end of the school year, and they couldn't join in with going to all the 18th birthdays/parties/nights out and a couple of them couldn't drink at their Debs because they still weren't old enough. I know its a loooong way off and may not even end up being relevant (kid may not end up interested in parties/drinking) but I know a lot of the kids in my class were frustrated and annoyed over being left out of things all their legal, 18 year old friends were doing.
I would say waiting till 5 is best, but it all depends on the child.

Rubberlegs

Our eldest was born in July and started Junior Infants the September after turning 4 after doing 2yrs in the playschool. She was one of the youngest in the class but got on great. I was told if I kept her back a year she would be bored as she was well able for the work. If she hadn't done Transition Year she would have been still 16 doing the Leaving Cert which in my opinion is too young. At 24 now, she says TY was a waste of time for her. If I could go back I would have kept her home another year. At the time she was an only child and very outgoing, we were new to the town and I was keen to get her socialising, so she went into playschool the November after turning 2 in July. It all turned out OK at the end of the day.
The middle girl will be doing her leaving next June without doing TY and is 18 at the end of the month, which I think is more like it.
The youngest started Junior Infants aged 4 , turning 5 the following January. I assumed she was one of the oldest in her class but most of them were already 5, almost 6 starting school. So she will be 17 doing the LC or 18 if she does TY.
It can be hard depending on the time of year a child is born deciding whether to leave them start school or keep them back longer so they are that bit older going in. I think it very much depends on the child themselves, though I do think when it comes to LC , 16 is too young.

Mink

I feel 5 is the best age to start.

I was 4 and 3 months starting and only ever was good friends with the other kids that had turned 4 the same summer. Academically we were all fine but socially was another question.

Where it really hit me hard was starting secondary. I was 12 for 90% of 1st year and that was hard going as the other girls were that bit older in terms of development and being street wise. I found the first 2 years of secondary very hard and I was way out of my depth with the other kids in terms of maturity, I don't like to think back to that time.

My sister started just as she was turning 4 and she was the same on both counts.

That's not to say that all kids starting before 4 and a half would have these issues at all, it was just our experience. My son was definitely not ready to start til he was 5.

Best bet is go off your gut feeling and the advice of preschool staff.

Yawns

School policy dictates atm but they usually provide quite a bit of leeway with how the birthday falls. 5 is preferred but not uncommon for a class to have a good mixture of 4 & 5 year olds.

bringupthebook

My gut feeling would be 5 - I left mine til 5. However, I am finding a few parents with older kids saying their kids reached a stage in 5th or 6th class where they were very bored and more than ready to make the move to secondary. Once there the fresh surroundings, change in structure etc invigorated them again but more than one feared they were loosing interest in the whole education system by end of primary. I guess my concern is that for some kids, being older moving to secondary might be a little late to keep them interested in school.

It's a hard one to weigh up but i agree the social side is the most important but more kids have the opportunity of preschool now which really helps ready them for school.

salmocab

bringupthebook wrote: »

I am finding a few parents with older kids saying their kids reached a stage in 5th or 6th class where they were very bored and more than ready to make the move to secondary.

To be fair lots of parents convince themselves that their children are geniuses or blame their bad behavior on them being bored in school because they're ahead of the other kids

boardsuser1

Seems to be an overwhelming majority so far in favour of waiting until a child is 5 years old.

byhookorbycrook

Children can't-and shouldn't-start before the age of 4 now.Legally , they don't have to be in formal education until they are 6. School is so much more than academics and social skills are absolutely paramount in infants. Remember that they will be leaving a "small group" setting and suddenly thrust into a class with 29 others. I work in learning support and often find children who appear to struggle are those who are closer to 4 than 5.

bringupthebook

salmocab wrote: »

To be fair lots of parents convince themselves that their children are geniuses or blame their bad behavior on them being bored in school because they're ahead of the other kids

To be fair I didnt mention anything about bad behaviour or that they think their kids are geniuses. The cases i am familiar with are those that are simply ready for the next stage of their schooling but are still in the primary system for another year or two. I dont see this as surprising for some kids the same as you will hear some parents say that one year is enough of preschool for their child.

Dravokivich

My son's birthday is in January, so mid way through the school year. If I held him back to 5, he'd be quiet a bit older than the other kids. So I'll be looking to have him start at 4.

boardsuser1

Dravokivich wrote: »

My son's birthday is in January, so mid way through the school year. If I held him back to 5, he'd be quiet a bit older than the other kids. So I'll be looking to have him start at 4.

My own daughter was 4 in February so was 4 years 6 months starting.

Similar to yourself we started her at 4 as waiting the extra year would have been too much when you look at the age of the rest of the class.

There is one child there who started at 5 and a half and the parents say they now regret it.

Lackey

Posted something similar previously:

Its not just about academics

If they start at 4/4.5 with kids 5/ 5.5/5,9 years old they will be in 5th year at 16 with 18 year old friends (ty adds the extra year)

You have a 16 year old getting invited to 18ths in niteclubs
Or a 12 year old on a sports team with kids still in primary school ...unable to play on the same team as their classmates

What age group do you want them hanging around with?

pwurple

Nice to have the luxury of choice.

For a lot of us, we simply cannot afford the annual 12k in Creche fees to keep them out of school another year or 2. Will hold onto that for college.

boardsuser1

Made a query to my former school where I hope to enroll my child.

They have told me they would prefer to wait until the following year as they feel he would be too young, in other words starting on his 4th birthday.

Can they legally do this or is it merely professional advice?

Yawns

A number of things would come into account such as school policy and class size / number of enrolled.

If they can still dictate who can come based on being Catholic or not then the starting age of 5 would be legal also if they wished.

If it's the school's policy to wait til 5, then they might insist on it unless there's space available.

boardsuser1

Yawns wrote: »

A number of things would come into account such as school policy and class size / number of enrolled.

If they can still dictate who can come based on being Catholic or not then the starting age of 5 would be legal also if they wished.

If it's the school's policy to wait til 5, then they might insist on it unless there's space available.

2020 is the proposed start date so i can't see why they would have an issue with numbers at this stage.

I might call in person and try it.

seamus

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

2020 is the proposed start date so i can't see why they would have an issue with numbers at this stage.

Is this your first by any chance? Some schools are booked out years in advance.

Both our kids had their names down for the local secondary school a couple of weeks after they were born. That's how tight the numbers are there.

On your original question, yes you can send them at 4, but if the school is oversubscribed, and in the absence of other factors, the school will give priority to older children. A child who turns 4 in the summer just before school may get bumped to the following year.

The St. Patrick's day guidance given above is probably about right, but tailored for the child.
I had only turned 4 in the April before I started school, but I had 3 older brothers so from having to muck in and and survive at home I was relatively mature and capable of school. My first daughter was a month away from 5 when she started and she really wouldn't have been able for it 6 months previously.

boardsuser1

seamus wrote: »

Is this your first by any chance? Some schools are booked out years in advance.

Both our kids had their names down for the local secondary school a couple of weeks after they were born. That's how tight the numbers are there.

On your original question, yes you can send them at 4, but if the school is oversubscribed, and in the absence of other factors, the school will give priority to older children. A child who turns 4 in the summer just before school may get bumped to the following year.

The St. Patrick's day guidance given above is probably about right, but tailored for the child.
I had only turned 4 in the April before I started school, but I had 3 older brothers so from having to muck and and survive, I was relatively mature and capable of school. My first daughter was a month away from 5 when she started and she really wouldn't have been able for it 6 months previously.

My first boy and 4th child overall.

I've babies 4 & 5 due in 12 weeks.

I tried to enroll the child when he was born and they weren't taking pupils for that year as yet.

tringle

Long time ago but..
My birthday is January. As soon as Xmas holidays were over Mam took me to the school to register me for September. School was small and low on numbers so said I could start straight away.....mam went home and that was my first day at school. It was assumed I wouldn't move up a class in September...but I did. Socially, academically, emotionally I was fine, i was smaller than everyone but my family are small anyway.

I moved through each class always thinking I would be repeating some year but this never happened.
Small problems through primary school related to school competitions/feis etc. Everyone in class would be in one age category and I would be in the lower one so I never got to compete against my class mates.

I moved house and towns 4 weeks before 6th class finished. My new primary school wouldn't keep me to repeat 6th class and the local secondary school didn't want me as I was too young. Ended up my previous headmistress wrote to the new secondary school and they took me. But they had to get permission from department of education to let me sit state exams. I sat my leaving at 16 and left.

Problems again, no college would take me and I ended up working full time for a year. I was fine with that but not many 16 year olds should be commuting over 2 hours each day, working with adults and on a full time wage, I found it hard to settle back into.college after that.

What age do you want them to leave school at? I think just hitting 18 is about right.
But it will come down to school policy and availability.
My brothers son started at 5 years 6 months. At 4 years 6 months he couldn't be guaranteed a place and would be on a waiting list whereas a year later he would be top of the list. Sisters son the opposite, he was 4 years 4 months when he started. Turns out he had special needs and needs extra help in school. Another year at home would not have helped this at all, in fact he is getting the help a year earlier.

There is no answer, each child and school is different. Are you and your baby ready to be parted or would an extra year together be beneficial.

seamus

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

I tried to enroll the child when he was born and they weren't taking pupils for that year as yet.

Yeah, policies vary a lot across schools, which is ridiculous tbh.
I've heard of some which won't open the enrollment books until a certain date, but then they don't operate a first-come-first-served policy.

Moonbeam

The age rang in some class is up to 18 months atm. That is far too much.
I have 3 January babies and they started at 4 after chatting to the play school.
My last is April and there was very little question of her starting at 4 but as it is the school introduced a minimum age policy ,4 by the 1st of March so all kids must be 4 1/2 starting.

boardsuser1

I've attached a copy of the email from me to the school and the return email.

The only thing i have edited is the removal of my real name and that of the school's location and principal's name.

Dear ,

I would wait until the following year as he is very young for JI in Sept.

Regards,

F

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 9:03 AM, <> wrote:
Dear Sir/Madam,

I write to you regarding the above.

Can you please inform me whether i can enroll my child for junior infants in September 2020?

He will turn 4 on September 4th of that year.

I am also a past pupil of the school myself.

Kind Regards

boardsuser1

seamus wrote: »

Yeah, policies vary a lot across schools, which is ridiculous tbh.
I've heard of some which won't open the enrollment books until a certain date, but then they don't operate a first-come-first-served policy.

I have to try and figure out what the exact policy of the school is, the principal has invited me to the school to meet with him.

I was enrolled there just days shy of my 5th birthday almost 30 years ago.

The only reason for that was because of the instability in my background at the time.

Can schools enforce a policy?

A principal in my daughters school told me that if a child is presented for enrollment they are obliged to accept.

seamus

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Can schools enforce a policy?

A principal in my daughters school told me that if a child is presented for enrollment they are obliged to accept.

They're obligated to accept the application and process it fairly. That is, a school in receipt of public money cannot refuse anyone who applies for a place for their child.

But they're not obligated to offer the child a place.

boardsuser1

tringle wrote: »

Long time ago but..
My birthday is January. As soon as Xmas holidays were over Mam took me to the school to register me for September. School was small and low on numbers so said I could start straight away.....mam went home and that was my first day at school. It was assumed I wouldn't move up a class in September...but I did. Socially, academically, emotionally I was fine, i was smaller than everyone but my family are small anyway.

I moved through each class always thinking I would be repeating some year but this never happened.
Small problems through primary school related to school competitions/feis etc. Everyone in class would be in one age category and I would be in the lower one so I never got to compete against my class mates.

I moved house and towns 4 weeks before 6th class finished. My new primary school wouldn't keep me to repeat 6th class and the local secondary school didn't want me as I was too young. Ended up my previous headmistress wrote to the new secondary school and they took me. But they had to get permission from department of education to let me sit state exams. I sat my leaving at 16 and left.

Problems again, no college would take me and I ended up working full time for a year. I was fine with that but not many 16 year olds should be commuting over 2 hours each day, working with adults and on a full time wage, I found it hard to settle back into.college after that.

What age do you want them to leave school at? I think just hitting 18 is about right.
But it will come down to school policy and availability.
My brothers son started at 5 years 6 months. At 4 years 6 months he couldn't be guaranteed a place and would be on a waiting list whereas a year later he would be top of the list. Sisters son the opposite, he was 4 years 4 months when he started. Turns out he had special needs and needs extra help in school. Another year at home would not have helped this at all, in fact he is getting the help a year earlier.

There is no answer, each child and school is different. Are you and your baby ready to be parted or would an extra year together be beneficial.

My wife and myself have always agreed to put our children into school at the earliest opportunity as with one of our daughters who started school almost 1 month after the rest, the only ones who tried to persuade us otherwise was the pre school she was in, myself and the F.I.L both objected feeling she was ready for primary school and the wife has conceded that it was the correct decision.

The only difficult that ever really presented with us was another of the children has special needs but has not been kept back.

I personally would be against starting them at 5 due to my own experiences starting at that age.

Only 1 other person in the class was older than me and he came in during 3rd class from a UK school.

boardsuser1

seamus wrote: »

They're obligated to accept the application and process it fairly. That is, a school in receipt of public money cannot refuse anyone who applies for a place for their child.

But they're not obligated to offer the child a place.

I'll make the trip down again on Monday and try to enroll him and see where it gets me.

What you say is a valid point.

It is a publicly funded school of more than 600 boys.

SusieBlue

seamus wrote: »

They're obligated to accept the application and process it fairly. That is, a school in receipt of public money cannot refuse anyone who applies for a place for their child.

But they're not obligated to offer the child a place.

This. I'd also be in agreement with the principal. The school year normally starts the last week of August, meaning your kiddo will be 3 for the first two weeks and the bare 4 for the remainder of the year. I would take the advice of the principal and wait. 3 turning 4 is very young to start JI.

boardsuser1

WhiteRoses wrote: »

This. I'd also be in agreement with the principal. The school year normally starts the last week of August, meaning your kiddo will be 3 for the first two weeks and the bare 4 for the remainder of the year. I would take the advice of the principal and wait. 3 turning 4 is very young to start JI.

Yeah, in or around the final week of August.

The child wouldn't be permitted to start until they reach their 4th birthday.

This happened to us once where the school year started on August 25th and the child began school on September 27th.

As some people have said, every child is different, some might be able for it and others won't.

ectoraige

The majority of academic research into this points to 6/7 as being the ideal age to begin formal schooling. Informal play-schooling for younger ages allow the best development of executive functions which strongly correlates with better mental health for the children and better problem-solving skills. Their later academic ability is generally as good if not better than those who started formal school at 4.

Historically allowing children to start school at 4 was a purely economic move allowing more people to rejoin the workforce, there was little regard for the childrens' best interests. The extension of the ECCE scheme was a positive step, culturally there's a lot of pressure to have them started earlier, hopefully over time the question will shift from "4 or 5?" to "5 or 6?" to start school.

boardsuser1

ectoraige wrote: »

The majority of academic research into this points to 6/7 as being the ideal age to begin formal schooling. Informal play-schooling for younger ages allow the best development of executive functions which strongly correlates with better mental health for the children and better problem-solving skills. Their later academic ability is generally as good if not better than those who started formal school at 4.

Historically allowing children to start school at 4 was a purely economic move allowing more people to rejoin the workforce, there was little regard for the childrens' best interests. The extension of the ECCE scheme was a positive step, culturally there's a lot of pressure to have them started earlier, hopefully over time the question will shift from "4 or 5?" to "5 or 6?" to start school.

The ECCE scheme was very beneficial for the one year we did have it. They pre school on that occasion tried to get us to take a second year but we declined it.

If they start school at 5 or 6, wouldn't that mean doing a leaving cert in or around 19/20?

Romantic Rose

I spent a lot of time teaching at the Junior end of the school and there is not a chance I would send my child to school who has just turned 4.

With the 2 ECCE years, the majority of children are at least 5 and some closer to 6.

Even my own girl who is as bright as a button is just turning 5 starting school and I'm wondering will she be too young as I know that there will be 6 years olds in her room.

Give your child the best chance with his education. Let him go to preschool and play and explore some more.

It's a long day for a young child. Let him be young once, formal education can wait.

Statistically speaking, with him being so young. He will end up in a class with other children being 20-25% older than him.

boardsuser1

Romantic Rose wrote: »

I spent a lot of time teaching at the Junior end of the school and there is not a chance I would send my child to school who has just turned 4.

With the 2 ECCE years, the majority of children are at least 5 and some closer to 6.

Even my own girl who is as bright as a button is just turning 5 starting school and I'm wondering will she be too young as I know that there will be 6 years olds in her room.

Give your child the best chance with his education. Let him go to preschool and play and explore some more.

It's a long day for a young child. Let him be young once, formal education can wait.

Statistically speaking, with him being so young. He will end up in a class with other children being 20-25% older than him.

In Junior Infants?

Is this becoming a common thing?

Where i am living there is high unemployment/high welfare dependency and the children is these families are all sent in at 4.

There are others schools that are closer who will take him on his 4th birthday no questions asked but they were pushing us to enroll him so we backed away.

It must be difficult to be a JI teacher and have your own children of a similar age,personally i take my hat off to teachers in that position.

Romantic Rose

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

In Junior Infants?

Is this becoming a common thing?

Where i am living there is high unemployment/high welfare dependency and the children is these families are all sent in at 4.

There are others schools that are closer who will take him on his 4th birthday no questions asked but they were pushing us to enroll him so we backed away.

It must be difficult to be a JI teacher and have your own children of a similar age,personally i take my hat off to teachers in that position.

From my daughter's Montessori room, a lot of the children going to school in September will have turned 5 in the April or May prior to starting school. I know there are children older than that too.

The ECCE years is definitely pushing the starting age up.

I worked in a DEIS area where children starting school younger was the norm but I never agreed with it. It was before there was more emphasis on preschooling.

I think a lot of it was a case of getting rid of the child for a large portion of the day unfortunately! Not thinking of what is in the best interests of the child.

Remouad

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

The ECCE scheme was very beneficial for the one year we did have it. They pre school on that occasion tried to get us to take a second year but we declined it.

If they start school at 5 or 6, wouldn't that mean doing a leaving cert in or around 19/20?

Taking your son as an example, you've stated that they wouldn't take him as he would be just turning 4.
If you waited until he was 5 he would be 18 doing the leaving.

Is there a problem with doing the leaving at 19? or is it just because that's the age that you perceive it should be done?

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

In Junior Infants?

Is this becoming a common thing?
.

Half of the junior infants in our local school turned 6 before the end of the school year.

Personally I think a child should only start school if they will turn 5 before February.

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Where i am living there is high unemployment/high welfare dependency and the children is these families are all sent in at 4.
.

I know this is common but I can never understand it.
There's no reason not to wait until 5 if childcare costs aren't an issue.

Teyla Emmagan

I would definitely wait if you can afford it.

gar32

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Yeah I heard of it being mooted but no more than that.

My now 7 year old started school on her 4th birthday, a full 3 and a half weeks after the rest.

She’s the youngest in the class but it never presented any issues.

She’ll be just turning 17 getting her leaving cert results if I done the calculations right.

Cheers for the reply

She will have to work 1 year more now to get her pension so there are many way's to look at it.