Church and School

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 06-12-2017 11:53PM

Steviesol wrote: »

I don't need to know the intircitities as to how the school manage man power.

I send my kids to school in good faith, might not be their faith but none the less, I feel they should do what they are paid for.

They will if you send you child along with the rest of the school.

Your sense of entitlement has grown from the OP.

Ficheall · 07-12-2017 12:01AM

Steviesol wrote: »

To be perfectly honest I am quite scared of the Catholic Church.

Thank god (no pun intended) this opportunity to complain about it arose then, eh?

Steviesol · 07-12-2017 12:05AM

Ficheall wrote: »

Thank god (no pun intended) this opportunity to complain about it arose then, eh?

This is not a complaint, it is a query.

splinter65 · 07-12-2017 12:31AM

Steviesol wrote: »

The School ? That's what they get paid for

Stevie your gas. If the school were going to the Zoo and you as a family are firmly anti-animal captivity then your kids wouldn’t be going.
would you be demanding that some staff are assigned to mind your children in the school?

kenmc · 07-12-2017 12:53AM

Alice Eager Wiretap wrote: »

They will if you send you child along with the rest of the school.

Your sense of entitlement has grown from the OP.

Alternative scenario so. Muslim/Jewish/Hindu/Buddhist/Taoist family living somewhere with no access to a multi-denom school or one of their faith end up with no option but a catholic school. Parents with work commitments can't take the kids home while the rest of the school goes to the catholic church for some school mass or whatever, as they (reasonably) expect their kids to be in school and educated during school term and hours. What's the solution?

jimmycrackcorm · 07-12-2017 12:55AM

farmerwifelet wrote:

I think it is funny that people are shocked that Catholic schools have a Catholic ethos and that this might involve a trip to the church. If I sent my child to a Jewish school then i would presume a trip to a synagogue would probably happen at some stage.

Most of us Irish grew up in the Catholism of mass, rosaries etc and yet it's dying these days.

Which makes me think it's bizarre how parents these days are worked up about their kids having any exposure to it.

end of the road · 07-12-2017 01:11AM

Estrellita wrote: »

The school is not a child minding service. If you've put your child or children into a Catholic school, then Catholic education is part of the curriculum. While non-religious families are welcome to apply for places in a Catholic school, it doesn't mean the school is responsible for minding children that come from families that do not wish to partake in the religious activities.

If children attend an educate together then they are made aware of other religions, but are asked to make arrangements in their own time to practice their own faith if they have one. This seems to be more in line with your own beliefs, or lack of in this case.

Your attitude towards the school is very off colour in my view. Your children are not the schools problem during religious classes or practices if you've chosen to enroll them in a school that follows a particular faith.

I'm not open to the discussion about why religion shouldn't be practiced in schools. The solution to that is more educate together schools as far as I'm concerned. None of which is my problem or concern.

You never answered another posters question about their school, is it an educate together? Why do you feel you're not responsible for your children during the religious parts of the curriculum?

because ultimately he's not. if the child is on school property then they are the responsibility of the school. the school cannot just abdecate from their responsibility because he isn't religious. if needs be, bring the child to the church and allow them to sit at the back. otherwise one of the teachers can mind the child.

splinter65 · 07-12-2017 01:15AM

kenmc wrote: »

Alternative scenario so. Muslim/Jewish/Hindu/Buddhist/Taoist family living somewhere with no access to a multi-denom school or one of their faith end up with no option but a catholic school. Parents with work commitments can't take the kids home while the rest of the school goes to the catholic church for some school mass or whatever, as they (reasonably) expect their kids to be in school and educated during school term and hours. What's the solution?

Parents opt not to have their children participate in a school activity so the parents make arrangements to have the children taken away and minded while the activity is ongoing.
This has been suggested several times in this thread.
It happens every day of the week.

splinter65 · 07-12-2017 01:17AM

end of the road wrote: »

because ultimately he's not. if the child is on school property then they are the responsibility of the school. the school cannot just abdecate from their responsibility because he isn't religious. if needs be, bring the child to the church and allow them to sit at the back. otherwise one of the teachers can mind the child.

So if the school are on a cultural trip to the synagogue and the Muslim children aren’t going the school have to hire someone to watch them?

KatW4 · 07-12-2017 02:26AM

I am a primary school teacher and this happens all of the time.

I'm speaking from my experience so maybe not every teacher/school will be the same. If you don't want your child to participate, that's fine. While we are in school they can complete unfinished work/read a book/do a jigsaw etc... while we complete RE lessons.

If our year group are leaving the premises for Carol singing/mass/religious activities. The children can join another year group and spend the time there.

However, if the whole school are leaving to participate in a religious activity, more often than not, we have to ask the parents to keep them at home. The children are more than welcome to join us and sit quietly and not participate. However, if you don't want your child to go with the rest of the school, the only other option is for you to keep your child at home. There are no available adults to look after your child in the school..

The class teacher must go with the class. In the younger classes, there needs to be an adult for every 6 children. So that's a minimum of 3 adults per class. The resource teachers and SNA's have to accompany the classes on the trip.(Sometimes we need to ask parents to join us as we don't have enough adults at that). That leaves no one behind to look after children not allowed to participate.

As a parent, you are the one deciding your child will not take part in a whole school activity so it is up to you to look after them during that time.

end of the road · 07-12-2017 02:38AM

KatW4 wrote: »

As a parent, you are the one deciding your child will not take part in a whole school activity so it is up to you to look after them during that time.

if it's during school time, then it's the school's issue, as they are on education time, in school. therefore they are the school's problem. unless they are being home schooled, one is legally obligated to send their children to a place of education and that place of education is responsible for them during the times of educating.
this is why we need to remove sky fairies from our schools, to insure inclusivity, and activities accessible to all.

Mrs OBumble · 07-12-2017 02:39AM

kenmc wrote: »

Alternative scenario so. Muslim/Jewish/Hindu/Buddhist/Taoist family living somewhere with no access to a multi-denom school or one of their faith end up with no option but a catholic school. Parents with work commitments can't take the kids home while the rest of the school goes to the catholic church for some school mass or whatever, as they (reasonably) expect their kids to be in school and educated during school term and hours. What's the solution?

Ironically, parents from other faith traditions are likely to be happy for their child to go along and respectfully observe but not participate. And they will have educated their child well enough about the family's belief systems that this won't be a problem for the kid.

The parents who have a problem are usually the proselytising atheists, whose NotGod-given-mission is to convince everyone else that all religion is bunk.

I predict a lot of their kids will turn religious as teens, just to rebel

Lucy8080 · 07-12-2017 02:49AM

Give ur kid purmissiun to go on the hop o.p. My parunts felt that our langwag wus stolen frum us by the Sassanachs and encurraaggeed me to hop off during Engerlandush lessons.

Didunt have any detrummentalist effekt on me.

evolving_doors · 07-12-2017 07:34AM

Steviesol wrote: »

I don't need to know the intircitities as to how the school manage man power.

I send my kids to school in good faith, might not be their faith but none the less, I feel they should do what they are paid for.

They are paid to provide religious instruction too!

kenmc · 07-12-2017 08:25AM

evolving_doors wrote: »

They are paid to provide religious instruction too!

And that's the crux of the problem.

Most of them indoctrinate. Only a very small percentage teach religion.

splinter65 · 07-12-2017 08:38AM

end of the road wrote: »

if it's during school time, then it's the school's issue, as they are on education time, in school. therefore they are the school's problem. unless they are being home schooled, one is legally obligated to send their children to a place of education and that place of education is responsible for them during the times of educating.
this is why we need to remove sky fairies from our schools, to insure inclusivity, and activities accessible to all.

You’ve just been told by a teacher what the situation is but here you are arguing with facts as usual and ignoring any straight questions put to you earlier in the thread because those questions don’t suit you.

The_Valeyard · 07-12-2017 08:42AM

kenmc wrote: »

And that's the crux of the problem.

Most of them indoctrinate. Only a very small percentage teach religion.

Jes, if i was thinking id be fairly piss drunk at the usual INDOCTRINATION SKY FAIRY NONSENSE comments.

Same comments, same posters, slightly different thread.

God bless you all for you're hard work.

Akrasia · 07-12-2017 09:27AM

Alice Eager Wiretap wrote: »

Who, specifically, do you expect to be available to mind your child?

Schools are perfectly capable of supervising entire classrooms of children if a teacher calls in sick or has in service training. They should be able to accommodate non religious children within the school

server down · 07-12-2017 09:28AM

kenmc wrote: »

School shouldn't be wasting valuable teaching hours promoting bloody fantasy sky fairies. If parents want to fill the kids heads with nonsense do so in their own time.

Catholic school, innit.

kenmc · 07-12-2017 09:31AM

server down wrote: »

Catholic school, innit.

Unfortunately, in 90+ % of cases, yes. That's the whole problem. It should be just "school", not "catholic school", "muslim school", "methodist school" etc.

tringle · 07-12-2017 09:32AM

OP, your children are your responsibility 24/7 regardless of who else they are with and you need to be able to provide care for them even when they are in school.
I understand that you discussed the religion issue at the time of enrolement and if they were going to the church every day then it would be an issue...but its one hour in the year, surely that's manageable for them. I don't believe in religion but had no problems with my children seeing it and attending churches for family or school occasions. If invited to a wedding would you refuse to attend a church service.
Either let them go to the church with the school or look after them, its not the schools responsibility to provide childcare.

Start your own tradition on that day.

The_Valeyard · 07-12-2017 09:36AM

Who is deleting comments?

kenmc · 07-12-2017 09:37AM

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Who is deleting comments?

Mine also, regarding how more learning might have resulted in better grammar.

The_Valeyard · 07-12-2017 09:38AM

kenmc wrote: »

Mine also, regarding how more learning might have resulted in better grammar.

And mine, how no one likes or needs a grammar nazi.

kenmc · 07-12-2017 10:09AM

The_Valeyard wrote: »

And mine, how no one likes or needs a grammar nazi.

Funnily enough, more facts + less fiction = less need for grammar Nazism!

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 07-12-2017 10:12AM

Akrasia wrote: »

Schools are perfectly capable of supervising entire classrooms of children if a teacher calls in sick or has in service training. They should be able to accommodate non religious children within the school

That is a pointless attempt at a comparison. Nothing like the OP's situation at all.

He wants one child looked after in an empty school.

One eyed Jack · 07-12-2017 10:22AM

kenmc wrote: »

Funnily enough, more facts + less fiction = less need for grammar Nazism!

Less need for grammar nazism?

You appear to be taking the utilitarian approach to education, in which case you should probably steer clear of Shakespeare, and just about every work of art ever created.

Meanwhile, for those such as myself who do not share your perspective on education, you're going to have to make a more compelling argument than your ability to point out other peoples spelling and grammar errors.

robbiezero · 07-12-2017 10:22AM

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

Most of us Irish grew up in the Catholism of mass, rosaries etc and yet it's dying these days.

Which makes me think it's bizarre how parents these days are worked up about their kids having any exposure to it.

Same. me, all of my friends all would have been educated up until college in a Catholic school. None of us in any way religious these days.

Its indoctrination in the way that Santa Claus is.

Candamir · 07-12-2017 10:40AM

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Meanwhile, for those such as myself who do not share your perspective on education, you're going to have to make a more compelling argument than your ability to point out other peoples spelling and grammar errors.

Put it this way - if schools were spending 2 1/2 hours a week teaching homeopathy as part of the science syllabus, I think most right minded people would have a problem with that.
That time would be better spent educating children on such things as grammar, or maths or science.

My youngest is in Communion class this year. Most of the parents at the enrolment mass are rarely in church (except for ‘social’ events like weddings, christenings etc, and maybe Christmas Day mass). Most of them don’t practice their religion, and if they were honest with themselves, they support the incredible amount of time ‘wasted’ in school on sacrament preparation because it’s too much hassle to do it out of school in their own time. Our kids spend little enough time in primary school as it is. That time should be spent teaching core subjects, and teaching of individual beliefs should be left to the parents and faith groups. While the vast majority of schools in this country are faith schools, and parents, in practice, often have no choice but to send their kids to a faith school, the status quo will continue.

server down · 07-12-2017 01:16PM

Candamir wrote: »

Put it this way - if schools were spending 2 1/2 hours a week teaching homeopathy as part of the science syllabus, I think most right minded people would have a problem with that.
That time would be better spent educating children on such things as grammar, or maths or science.

My youngest is in Communion class this year. Most of the parents at the enrolment mass are rarely in church (except for ‘social’ events like weddings, christenings etc, and maybe Christmas Day mass). Most of them don’t practice their religion, and if they were honest with themselves, they support the incredible amount of time ‘wasted’ in school on sacrament preparation because it’s too much hassle to do it out of school in their own time. Our kids spend little enough time in primary school as it is. That time should be spent teaching core subjects, and teaching of individual beliefs should be left to the parents and faith groups. While the vast majority of schools in this country are faith schools, and parents, in practice, often have no choice but to send their kids to a faith school, the status quo will continue.

I generally don’t agree with new atheists, a few trips to a church or a Christmas play is alright, but communion is a massive time sink.

Church and School

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