Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread II

Madagascan · 07-12-2017 12:26AM

StringerBell wrote: »

markodaly wrote: »

Calm down, no one is saying that. If there is violence over this he can sell himself as being a 'tough on terrorism guy' image to his electorate by standing side by side with Israel. If there is not, then he just made a loads of good friends ( and enemies but they hate him already).

Made loads of good friends? There is pretty much universal condemnation of this,

Yes mostly from Arab countries that want Israel destroyed so we can't worry too much about that.

StringerBell · 07-12-2017 12:33AM

Madagascan wrote: »

Yes mostly from Arab countries that want Israel destroyed so we can't worry too much about that.

No, from all Arab countries, and every other country who has addressed it bar Israel.

You misunderstood, when I said pretty much universal I meant pretty much universal, as in everybody bar USA and Israel.

There is absolutely no spin you can put on that so please, stop.

Do you have any take on what he has to gain from this? Other then sure The Donald did it so its obviously great?

C14N · 07-12-2017 12:35AM

Madagascan wrote: »

Yes mostly from Arab countries that want Israel destroyed so we can't worry too much about that.

If the condemnation was from a handful of Arab countries, the previous poster wouldn't have said "universal".

Peregrinus · 07-12-2017 12:37AM

Madagascan wrote: »

Yes mostly from Arab countries that want Israel destroyed so we can't worry too much about that.

China, Russia, France, Germany, the EU, the UN, the Vatican, the UK and Australia are all Arab countries now, are they?

Itssoeasy · 07-12-2017 12:39AM

I'm just listening to trump make the announcement that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. Even hearing him talk is annoying.

I love that he says he wants a great peace deal for the Palestinians. How exactly ? Didn't his own state dept say it wasn't a good move to him ?

Tell me how · 07-12-2017 12:41AM

Itssoeasy wrote:

I love that he says he wants a great peace deal for the Palestinians. How exactly ? Didn't his own state dept say it wasn't a good move to him ?

The reason he said it's a good deal for Palestinians is because that's what he was told to say. Same as rezoning conservation lands in Utah is good for that state.

C14N · 07-12-2017 12:43AM

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I'm just listening to trump make the announcement that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. Even hearing him talk is annoying.

I love that he says he wants a great peace deal for the Palestinians. How exactly ? Didn't his own state dept say it wasn't a good move to him ?

Whether he's just brazenly lying or so thoroughly ignorant that he believes his own words, it's quite nauseating listening to him talk about it. It's the same with his domestic talk. When he came in he was all chat about how he wanted to heal the divide and bring Americans together but he has done absolutely nothing whatsoever to try and work with Democrats, or to appeal to the 54% of voters who picked someone else, and he still acts like they should all be cozying up to him.

aloyisious · 07-12-2017 12:44AM

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I'm just listening to trump make the announcement that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. Even hearing him talk is annoying.

I love that he says he wants a great peace deal for the Palestinians. How exactly ? Didn't his own state dept say it wasn't a good move to him ?

I think DOD is of similar opinion, both having feet on the ground.

Madagascan · 07-12-2017 12:44AM

Peregrinus wrote: »

Madagascan wrote: »

Yes mostly from Arab countries that want Israel destroyed so we can't worry too much about that.

China, Russia, France, Germany, the EU, the UN, the Vatican, the UK and Australia are all Arab countries now, are they?

I said mostly.
Though time will tell what countries accept it.
For now the only one that counts is the USA.

Madagascan · 07-12-2017 12:46AM

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I'm just listening to trump make the announcement that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. Even hearing him talk is annoying.

It is and has been the Jewish capital for 3, 000 years.

JenovaProject · 07-12-2017 12:50AM

Hasn't this embassy move been put off for the last 20 years by all other presidents?
Passed by congress in the 90s? but each president has kicked the can down the road until Trump.
Imo it shows he's nothing more than a useful idiot for the behind the scenes policy makers in government.

Peregrinus · 07-12-2017 12:50AM

Madagascan wrote: »

I said mostly.

And you were wrong.

Madagascan wrote: »

Though time will tell what countries accept it.

Given the size, number and diversity of countries that have criticised it, I really don't think we have to wait for "time to tell us" how many will accept it. We already know that very few will. As of today, none at all, apart from Israel and the US.

Madagascan wrote: »

For now the only one that counts is the USA.

On the issue of where the capital of Israel should be, the only country that counts is the USA? You're floundering here, Madagascan.

Itssoeasy · 07-12-2017 12:53AM

Madagascan wrote: »

It is and has been the Jewish capital for 3, 000 years.

The state of Israel isn't 3,000 years old.

Itssoeasy · 07-12-2017 12:56AM

JenovaProject wrote: »

Hasn't this embassy move been put off for the last 20 years by all other presidents?
Passed by congress in the 90s? but each president has kicked the can down the road until Trump.
Imo it shows he's nothing more than a useful idiot for the behind the scenes policy makers in government.

Yes and Trump has signed the waiver just like the others. So is Trump hedging his bets ?

Madagascan · 07-12-2017 12:59AM

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Madagascan wrote: »

It is and has been the Jewish capital for 3, 000 years.

The state of Israel isn't 3,000 years old.

I didn't say the State of Israel ðŸ˜Ž

Itssoeasy · 07-12-2017 01:00AM

Madagascan wrote: »

I didn't say the State of Israel &#55357;&#56846;

Yes I know you didn't but I did and today's announcement involved the state of Israel.

Gringo180 · 07-12-2017 01:00AM

Good to see Aipac has bought another president out. Them Israelis are a cancer to America.

JenovaProject · 07-12-2017 01:01AM

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Yes and Trump has signed the waiver just like the others. So is Trump hedging his bets ?

So he's talking out of both sides of his mouth again?
Who could have guessed?

BuilderPlumber · 07-12-2017 01:34AM

This American regime is going from bad to worse and it totally lacks direction, sense or meaning at this stage. We do not even know who REALLY leads it. Any SENSIBLE person should KNOW that naming Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and banning citizens of Muslim countries from entering America will do everything to further the causes of all types of extremism. Some type of criminal entity possibly Chechen in origin has a massive say in America and a corrupt leader runs Israel. Israel and Saudi Arabia teaming up with an America run by organised crime syndicates to wreck the rest of the Middle East is what is going on. It is time for change. Who ultimately will suffer because of Netanyahu's Israel and ?'s American regime? Americans and Israelis that's who. It is time for Netanyahu and the Man With No Name to relinquish their rule of both nations and do their people a favour.

wes · 07-12-2017 02:07AM

Trump trying to start a holy war in the Middle East, after trying to provoke a war with North Korea.

I remember people talking about how Hillary was the war monger. I doubt any of those people will admit that they were wrong, as pretty much all Trump support at this point is that of an end times death cult, after this most recent bout of war mongering.

I do have to say, that state that political discourse has been reduced due to Trump and the far right is something else. I can't believe I just in all seriousness referred to a great swath of people as an end time death cult, and that it wasn't hyperbole.

JenovaProject · 07-12-2017 02:14AM

wes wrote: »

Trump trying to start a holy war in the Middle East, after trying to provoke a war with North Korea.

I remember people talking about how Hillary was the war monger. I doubt any of those people will admit that they were wrong, as pretty much all Trump support at this point is that of an end times death cult, after this most recent bout of war mongering.

I do have to say, that state that political discourse has been reduced due to Trump and the far right is something else. I can't believe I just in all seriousness referred to a great swath of people as an end time death cult, and that it wasn't hyperbole.

Pure hyperbole.
The middle east has been at war long before trump got his hands on the presidency.
Obama and Hillary did far worse destabilising Syria and Libya.

All Trumps support is an end time death cult?
Yeh half of America,not hyperbole at all.

wes · 07-12-2017 02:24AM

JenovaProject wrote: »

Pure hyperbole.

Look at the support for Roy Moore. Its not hyperbole anymore.

JenovaProject wrote: »

The middle east has been at war long before trump got his hands on the presidency.

So its a good idea to add fuel to fire? This is a really silly excuse you have come up with.

JenovaProject wrote: »

Obama and Hillary did far worse destabilising Syria and Libya.

Now Trump is making it worse. Again, a piss poor defense.

JenovaProject wrote: »

All Trumps support is an end time death cult?
Yeh half of America,not hyperbole at all.

Again, there supporting Roy Moore. The Republican party is supporting Roy Moore. Trump is supporting Roy Moore. Now Donald is trying to kick off a god damn Religiously motivated holy war, that is motivated to placate the extremist evangelical Christian hypocrites in his base, who want to bring about the end of the world. Its not hyperbole anymore. Let not forget Trump is also a Nazi sympathizer, and his links with Bannon and his white supremacist publication Breitbart.

There is no point in pretending that Trumps supporters are decent or nice people anymore. Anyone who still supports Trump, is a member of a end times death cult.

Anyone, with any kind of basic decency probably regrets helping put a despot like Trump in power.

Peregrinus · 07-12-2017 02:27AM

Madagascan wrote: »

I didn't say the State of Israel ��

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Yes I know you didn't but I did and today's announcement involved the state of Israel.

What Issoeasy said. Plus, the American Embassy isn't the American Embassy to Jewishness; it's the American Embassy to the State of Israel.

Since 1948, US policy has consistently been that the status of Jerusalem is a matter which should be decided by international negotation and that, in such negogiations, the US's position would be that Jerasalem should have an international or transnational status.

Trump has just changed that policy, to almost universal denunciation. It's incumbent on him to articulate a reasoned and coherent case for the policy change but, since it's plainly unrealistic to expect anything reasoned or coherent from Trump , I think it falls to those who support the decision to make the case in favour of it.

Madagascan doesn't seem likely to take on that task, since his support for Trump thus far has largely rested on denial of reality. ("Most of the objections come from Arab states! The US is the only country that matters!") Madagascan, in fact, may be a fifth-columnist whose object is to give the impression support for what Trump has done must rest on idiocy, and that a rational defence is impossible. But perhaps some other trumpista boardie will be willing to take on the task that is certainly beyond Trump and apparently beyond Madagascan?

JenovaProject · 07-12-2017 02:28AM

wes wrote: »

Look at the support for Roy Moore. Its not hyperbole anymore.

So its a good idea to add fuel to fire? This is a really silly excuse you have come up with.

Now Trump is making it worse. Again, a piss poor defense.

Again, there supporting Roy Moore. The Republican party is supporting Roy Moore. Trump is supporting Roy Moore. Now Donald is trying to kick off a god damn Religiously motivated holy war, that is motivated to placate the extremist evangelical Christian hypocrites in his base, who want to bring about the end of the world. Its not hyperbole anymore. Let not forget Trump is also a Nazi sympathizer, and his links with Bannon and his white supremacist publication Breitbart.

There is no point in pretending that Trumps supporters are decent or nice people anymore. Anyone who still supports Trump, is a member of a end times death cult.

Anyone, with any kind of basic decency probably regrets helping put a despot like Trump in power.

Im not making excuses or defending anything trump has done just stating facts.
Roy Moore has nothing to do with the ME and the few vocal supporters on the interwebs is not a reflection on half the American population.

So yes pure hyperbole coming from you.

mcmoustache · 07-12-2017 02:36AM

wes wrote: »

Trump trying to start a holy war in the Middle East, after trying to provoke a war with North Korea.

I remember people talking about how Hillary was the war monger. I doubt any of those people will admit that they were wrong, as pretty much all Trump support at this point is that of an end times death cult, after this most recent bout of war mongering.

I do have to say, that state that political discourse has been reduced due to Trump and the far right is something else. I can't believe I just in all seriousness referred to a great swath of people as an end time death cult, and that it wasn't hyperbole.

I remember too. There was one guy with a kk who seemed genuine and I'd be curious about what he thinks now. At the time, he thought Hillary would be a warmonger and that Trump would pursue a more isolationist policy. To be fair to him, Trump had that rhetoric and it's not beyond the realms of possibility that Hillary was a bit of a hawk. As I said, he seemed genuine, engaged in discussion and didn't lie. I would be curious about what he now thinks.

I'd also be curious about the libertarian fella from donegal. He by no means supported Trump (voted Johnson) but was right leaning in a rational way. Not alt-right or denying reality or racist - just very fiscally conservative and into small government. A sane voice on the right. I feel that people like him have been drowned from all sides.

The thing is, I don't think it's easy to make a case for Trump any more than it is to make the case for cancer. Sure, they'll still pop in to shout "But Hillary" or run around yelling "Fake news" but they offer nothing of substance.

I think that any rational person, left or right, knows that Trump is monkey with a gun at this point.

wes · 07-12-2017 02:39AM

JenovaProject wrote: »

Im not making excuses or defending anything trump has done just stating facts.

Yeah, and I pointed out some other facts.

JenovaProject wrote: »

Roy Moore has nothing to do with the ME and the few vocal supporters on the interwebs is not a reflection on half the American population.

I never said Roy Moore had anything to do with the Middle East. Also, Trump and GOP are not just a few vocal supporters, and Moore is looking likely to win in Albama. So yeah, it is a reflection of a huge chunk of a US state, and the fact that the national GOP is now supporting him, not to mention the US President who less than half the electorate voted for is also supporting him.

JenovaProject wrote: »

So yes pure hyperbole coming from you.

All I see is someone ignoring just how bad things have gotten. The fact is that Trump is President, a man with multiple credible allegations of rape and sexual assault (one coming from his ex wife), a man with links with white supremacists, a man who is a Nazi sympathizer, a man trying to start a nuclear war with North Korea, a man supporting Roy Moore (who was banned from a shopping mall because he was trying to "date" teenagers, among other credible accusations), and a man who is now trying to start a holy war in the Middle East. Anyone who still supports a man like that, I think it more than far to refer to as a member of a end times death cult.

JenovaProject · 07-12-2017 02:47AM

wes wrote: »

Yeah, and I pointed out some other facts.

I never said Roy Moore had anything to do with the Middle East. Also, Trump and GOP are not just a few vocal supporters, and Moore is looking likely to win in Albama. So yeah, it is a reflection of a huge chunk of a US state, and the fact that the national GOP is now supporting him, not to mention the US President who less than half the electorate voted for is also supporting him.

All I see is someone ignoring just how bad things have gotten. The fact is that Trump is President, a man with multiple credible allegations of rape and sexual assault (one coming from his ex wife), a man with links with white supremacists, a man who is a Nazi sympathizer, a man trying to start a nuclear war with North Korea, a man supporting Roy Moore (who was banned from a shopping mall because he was trying to "date" teenagers, among other credible accusations), and a man who is now trying to start a holy war in the Middle East. Anyone who still supports a man like that, I think it more than far to refer to as a member of a end times death cult.

I cant disagree with you...I dont like or support trump.
Youre just over-reacting,like the majority of people with anti trump opinions.
There is a few level headed opinions here on whats happening right now and yours is not one of them...all IMHO of course.
Maybe your post is more suited to the AH thread?

JenovaProject · 07-12-2017 02:50AM

mcmoustache wrote: »

I think that any rational person, left or right, knows that Trump is monkey with a gun at this point.

Wouldnt be a million miles off with this statement but with a small adjustment of a monkey with a gun held to his head.
Trump is a puppet,he thought hed be the bestest pres ever but he's been caught by the balls by the GOP and Trump is the fall guy.

wes · 07-12-2017 02:53AM

JenovaProject wrote: »

I cant disagree with you...I dont like or support trump.
Youre just over-reacting,like the majority of people with anti trump opinions.
There is a few level headed opinions here on whats happening right now and yours is not one of them...all IMHO of course.
Maybe your post is more suited to the AH thread?

The sad thing is that I am not over reacting. This is the level of discourse we are reduced to. I can't keep pretending that the core Trump support (the people who still support him after all this nonsense) aren't a bunch of extremists. If these same people were in the Middle East, they imo would be ISIS sympathizers.

Again, I go back to Roy Moore. How can you over react to what is going on with that? He will likely win in Alabama, with both the President and national GOP supporting him. I abhor the fact that I have to resort to the language I am using, but its only thing I find appropriate anymore. The right has basically become what would have been just a couple of years ago, an incredibly offensive liberal parody.

mcmoustache · 07-12-2017 03:05AM

JenovaProject wrote: »

Wouldnt be a million miles off with this statement but with a small adjustment of a monkey with a gun held to his head.
Trump is a puppet,he thought hed be the bestest pres ever but he's been caught by the balls by the GOP and Trump is the fall guy.

There's a bit of that, definitely. He had no idea about the limitations of his role. A clear example being him fighting with his own party. He though he could just give orders and that things would just happen. There are teenagers with better awareness than that.

You might be right about him being kept there as a fall guy.The republicans can raid the treasury and blame him when it all goes south.

That said, I don't think the republicans are the ones holding the gun. There's a country that was universally (dems and rebubs) sanctioned a few months ago and the sanctions still haven't gone into effect because the guy with the waiting pen doesn't want to. If the republicans were holding the gun, those sanctions would have gone into effect.

Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread II

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